Las Vegas Concert Mass Shooting

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
Breaking News...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_Strip_shooting
A gun man has opened fire on concert goers at a Las Vegas country music festival
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...ng-rampage-at-las-vegas-concert-idUSKCN1C70FU
It appears the gun man was firing into the crowd from an upper floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel. Initial reports stated there were multiple gun men, but later police statement revised this to a lone shooter, but an alleged female companion is still being sought. The shooter has been described as a local man.

Time line of reports so far...
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2017/10/several-shot-at-country-concert-in-las-vegas.html
(All times New Zealand times)
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The usual false flag nonsense was, of course, immediate. These people are pretty much beyond help.



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20171002-071712-kgk46.jpg
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
There was a terrifying amount of firepower there.
We need more information before assuming the amount of Firepower.. as well as what " terrifying amount of fire power" means. Its hyperbolic at best. We dont know what weapon he had, how many rounds he had etc... There's also the chance for "false reports" (meaning echos sounding like shots fired when there werent any fired etc).

Ive seen the footage and listened to the footage, and to me it DOES sound like automatic fire, but without knowing what he had, the size of the rounds, how many rounds etc, itll be hard to determine what actually happened. There are reports that the weapon was a 240B or 240G, which fire 5.56mm (.223 caliber) rounds. There are reports that it was an AK of some kind (7.62mm), or an MP5 (9mm). Its WAY too early to start talking about firepower until we know exactly what kind of firepower we're talking about.

While we're at it, we still dont know motive. Was the gunman going for a specific target and then opened up on the crowd to cover his tracks, was the concert ITSELF the target, was this another Orlando type situation where a specific group was being targeted? We dont know a lot about the shooter yet, his motivations etc, to really start any kind of speculation.

Not attacking ya Ghost, I promise, I agree with what you're saying. What happened is horrific... absolutely and without a doubt is it horrific...I just dont want us being guilty of jumping on the hyperbole train is all.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
The usual false flag nonsense was, of course, immediate. These people are pretty much beyond help.



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The usual false flag nonsense was, of course, immediate. These people are pretty much beyond help.



View attachment 29331


View attachment 29328
Yeah, saw this on Activist Post.
https://www.activistpost.com/2017/10/questions-swirl-las-vegas-mass-shooting.html

Activist Post.png

Jon Rappoport "just asking questions," but the intent is pretty clear.
 

Spectrar Ghost

Senior Member.
We need more information before assuming the amount of Firepower.. as well as what " terrifying amount of fire power" means. Its hyperbolic at best. We dont know what weapon he had, how many rounds he had etc... There's also the chance for "false reports" (meaning echos sounding like shots fired when there werent any fired etc).

Ive seen the footage and listened to the footage, and to me it DOES sound like automatic fire, but without knowing what he had, the size of the rounds, how many rounds etc, itll be hard to determine what actually happened. There are reports that the weapon was a 240B or 240G, which fire 5.56mm (.223 caliber) rounds. There are reports that it was an AK of some kind (7.62mm), or an MP5 (9mm). Its WAY too early to start talking about firepower until we know exactly what kind of firepower we're talking about.

While we're at it, we still dont know motive. Was the gunman going for a specific target and then opened up on the crowd to cover his tracks, was the concert ITSELF the target, was this another Orlando type situation where a specific group was being targeted? We dont know a lot about the shooter yet, his motivations etc, to really start any kind of speculation.

Not attacking ya Ghost, I promise, I agree with what you're saying. What happened is horrific... absolutely and without a doubt is it horrific...I just dont want us being guilty of jumping on the hyperbole train is all.
Agreed. Based on what I've read thus far, there were 19 weapons in that hotel room, including an AR-15 type weapon modified for automatic fire (how it was modified - trigger crank, bump stock, or otherwise - is unclear). An American intelligence expert was quoted as saying that at least two 90 round bursts were fired - presumably from this weapon.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
An American intelligence expert was quoted as saying that at least two 90 round bursts were fired - presumably from this weapon.
Based on what? Did your source happen to mention their source or how that source came to that conclusion? Again, not going after you... its just very specifically vague.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Based on what? Did your source happen to mention their source or how that source came to that conclusion? Again, not going after you... its just very specifically vague.
Absolutely. If a source doesn't give a name then we can not assume the information is accurate. In fact official press briefings by police personnel should be what is being watched.

https://twitter.com/LVMPD?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


update: just watched 7pm press briefing. Asst. Sheriff,Todd Fasulo :
is "confident" in current numbers "23 firearms at Mandalay Bay, 19 firearms at home in mesquite, home in [reno] still being searched" . No mention of modifications or calibers or specific weapons.
59 deceased. 527 injured.

3 pm press briefing Sheriff Joseph Lombardo:
- ""calibers ranging from 303-223" "16 in the room" "plus 1 handgun" . No confirmation on any modifications "The ATF haven't evaluated them yet" but "we believe so".
-"explosives . tannerite i believe" and thousands of rounds of ammo also found in Mesquite home, 18 guns.
-"Ammonia nitrate" found in car.
-"in excess of 10 suitcases"
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
The Telegraph in the UK also published these Boston25 photos, and says about modifications:
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
uses the weapon's recoil to allow the shooter to fire rounds at a speed approaching that of a fully automatic gun
Well, thats not accurate. Semi Automatic, by definition, means that you fire rounds out of the weapon as fast as you can pull the trigger.. the butt stock has nothing to do with that.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Well, thats not accurate. Semi Automatic, by definition, means that you fire rounds out of the weapon as fast as you can pull the trigger.. the butt stock has nothing to do with that.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/news/a28479/vegas-shooter-bump-stock/

Vegas Shooter Had 'Bump Stocks' To Convert Rifles to Full-Auto

 
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Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/news/a28479/vegas-shooter-bump-stock/

Vegas Shooter Had 'Bump Stocks' To Convert Rifles to Full-Auto

I stand corrected. Ive never heard of those and had no idea they existed.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
I stand corrected. Ive never heard of those and had no idea they existed.
well apparently now the whole world knows and they are selling out. Shall we raise a glass to the numb-nut liberal press?



NOTHING HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY POLICE REGARDING THE WEAPONS OTHER THAN "23 firearms". and clalibers "ranging from 303-223"
 

Rory

Senior Member.
NOTHING HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY POLICE REGARDING THE WEAPONS OTHER THAN "23 firearms" and calibers "ranging from 303-223"
Hm. Well I wonder where The Telegraph is getting this from (as reported at 23.47 PST on Monday):
The earliest report I can see on this was posted at 14.25 PST Monday, on the AP feed as posted on many websites, including statesman.com and the Bay Area's ABC7 News website:
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
Hm. Well I wonder where The Telegraph is getting this from (as reported at 23.47 PST on Monday):
media is like that game "telephone" when such event occur. One guy says one thing and others repeat it and change the words a bit.
You also have to remember that 1. "officials" and "reporters"don't always understand lingo used or may mishear things. 2. even police personnel aren't always 'in the know'.. when you watch press briefings after such events you see that even the spokesmen ( in this case Sheriff Lombardo and Asst. Sheriff Fasulo ) don't always have all the information as such investigations are extremely large.

there is 1 bump stock in the photos above. (the middle photo). The main point is that ATF and the FBI are evaluating the weapons (to see which were actually fired etc) so even law personnel that actually ARE close to the weapons part of the investigation don't have concrete facts yet. based on youtube videos it does sound (to me) like bump-stock fire..

Sheriff Lambardo and Asst. Sheriff Fusalo say: 23 firearms in hotel, 19 fire arms in Mesquite home, 5 handguns and 2 shotguns in Reno. as of the 1pm press briefing today. (I haven't watched the latest one yet... if they even had it yet)

Even the photos.. many sources say "from a police source" but the [..] who supposedly got them handed to her never said 'a police source'. and other photos shown on ABC show the hallway and all shots taken from outside the hotel room door. With crime scene tape all over the room door.. so they could just as likely come from a hotel employee who snuck up there. Maybe SHE took them after wiggling her pretty self to an employee or cop.


Point is: Believe nothing until official police press briefings tell you so or information is posted to official government sites. Things may very well be true, but no point wasting time speculating when REAL information will be forth coming in a few days.

All press briefings can be found on the PD twitter link above. They are a bit slower to upload things, so like for the latest press briefing (at 1pm he said they might have another at 5pm) so just google "LV press briefing" then under "tools" chose 'last hour' or 'last 24 hrs' and you'll find them easy enough.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Interesting to see IS still trying to claim responsibility. And basically nobody believes them at all as far as I can see. Barring some major unexpected revelations, that can only be a PR screw-up for them.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Interesting to see IS still trying to claim responsibility. And basically nobody believes them at all as far as I can see. Barring some major unexpected revelations, that can only be a PR screw-up for them.
It looks to me like they're taking plays right out of the "How to be a Terrorist in the 80s" Terrorist's Handbook. Remember back in the 80s and early 90s, if there was a bombing or a hijacking some oddball terrorist org (PLA, LTTE, GAL etc) would claim they were responsible? Looks like the same kind of thing here. They're the "big bad" in the world now, so anytime something tragic happens, they're probably going to take responsibility whether they're actually responsible or not. Publicity is publicity, and the people that want to believe that ISIL is responsible are going to believe it regardless of whether or not its true.

There ARE rumours flying around the internet that the shooter's roommate/girlfriend (whatever she is) is tied to ISIL activity in Thailand, but Ive not seen any actual evidence. Ive seen a bunch of conspiracy stuff (multiple shooters, shootings taking place from different floors, shooters IN the crowd etc), and some wild speculation, but nothing substantial or substantiated as of yet.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
There ARE rumours flying around the internet that the shooter's roommate/girlfriend (whatever she is) is tied to ISIL activity in Thailand, but Ive not seen any actual evidence. Ive seen a bunch of conspiracy stuff (multiple shooters, shootings taking place from different floors, shooters IN the crowd etc), and some wild speculation, but nothing substantial or substantiated as of yet.
Based on anything other than "she looks Southeast Asian"? AFAIK she is ethnically Filipina and Australian by nationality. Not that that rules out the above, of course, but it just sounds like hearsay.

Something else worth addressing: there are claims that the shooter was an "anti-Trump fanatic" based on a supposed list of his Facebook likes:

upload_2017-10-4_16-45-33.png

Those are actually the FB likes of a man called Geary Danley, who was wrongly accused on 4chan etc soon after the shooting because of a perceived link to Marilou Danley.

 

SR1419

Senior Member.
ISIL activity in Thailand
Do you mean the Philippines? She was in the Philippines when the attack occurred and he did wire $100,000 to someone in the Philippines last week. There are ISIS related extremists in the Philippines. But everything is just conjecture at this point. You would think if the claim was legit ISIS would release some actual evidence.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
You would think if the claim was legit ISIS would release some actual evidence.
Yes, so far they have only released images and facts that had already been released in other media. One of their latest messages seems to be an appeal for "experienced video makers" to help them "produce proof in English". Make of that what you will.



It does mention Marawi, which is the site of an ISIS stronghold in the Philippines.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Do you mean the Philippines? She was in the Philippines when the attack occurred and he did wire $100,000 to someone in the Philippines last week. There are ISIS related extremists in the Philippines. But everything is just conjecture at this point. You would think if the claim was legit ISIS would release some actual evidence.
Might be the Philippines.. the posts I saw and the links I saw mentioned Thailand specifically. I'll see if I can dig them up, was one of those eye roll moments ya get as you're scrolling through the goofiness on your feeds so I didnt pay a WHOLE lot of attention to it.
 

Henry Crun

New Member
yes fair play but we at least know there were 586 rounds you'd have to admit were legitimate - and I'd have been fairly terrified if i'd been there
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
If any of that is actually legitimate and not just supposition or guess work, yes it is. Im waiting for an actual accounting of what was in the room, not probablies and maybes.
it is official statements. Sheriff Lombardi. of course the next day they changed it to 23 firearms in the hotel.

add: "in excess of 10 suitcase" doesn't mean suitcases filled with bullets. THe question was how he got the weapons into the room.


https://www.youtube.com/user/LasVegasPolice/videos
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
5 pm Wednesday October 4th Press Briefing updates
Sheriff Lombardo:

  • Hospitals made some mistakes in counting, new injury total "489 injuries, 317 discharged" "58 deceased plus gunman makes 59"

  • Confirmed: Paddock did have a room rented at the Ogden hotel at the time of the "Life is Beautiful Festival". still investigating possible implications of this.

  • Regarding photos (see Daily Mail) showing a note in hotel room. Lombardo can't recall what it was but NOT a suicide note "I'm comfortable in saying that".

  • Car search complete:
"10 1lb containers of tannerite
2 20lb containers of tannerite
approximately 1600 rounds of ammunition"

  • No new news on weapons or ammo in room, Sheriff did mention based on his personal observations "Rounds haven't been counted, but there were thousands of rounds still in the room"

  • Cameras did not have recording devices (referring to 1 camera in peephole, 2 cameras on service cart outside doorway in hotel hall, plus one baby monitor system in suite living room area. )
  • Timeline released (screenshots attached below)

  • reporter asks (hard to hear so not verbatim) about Paddock buying 33 rifles in Oct 2016 and if they think a 'mental health type' event happened at that time. "Yes. We keyed on that too sir"

  • reporter asks "do you have any evidence that he tried to survive this? that he tried to escape?" "yes. I can't tell you"

RE: Paddock's background and all things related to Marylou Danley (girlfriend, who is "cooperating") and/or isis etc... the FBI is in charge with that. Have not briefed Lombardo on interviews conducted today with her and others. Special Agent Aaron Rowse (sp?) said basically over an over that they will NOT be releasing ANY information, due to not wanting to drive people underground or loosing people's cooperation in the investigation.
Which basically means, we won't know squat for possibly quite a while.

Although Sheriff Lombardo did make a comment about how Paddock would have to be Superman to have pulled all this off alone. But he doesn't have any evidence of that so far. But they will continue to investigate.

timelinepd1.JPG

timeline2.JPG
 

Steve Funk

Senior Member.
THe question was how he got the weapons into the room.


https://www.youtube.com/user/LasVegasPolice/videos
I don't have any experience with the AR 15, but they are supposed to be easy to take apart to replace components. The standard model with 20 inch barrel is 39.6 inches total length, too big for any suitcase that could be easily checked on an airplane. He could have spent some of his three days putting barrels back on.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't have any experience with the AR 15, but they are supposed to be easy to take apart to replace components. The standard model with 20 inch barrel is 39.6 inches total length, too big for any suitcase that could be easily checked on an airplane. He could have spent some of his three days putting barrels back on.
He drove there from Mesquite, about 90 miles away. I imagine the guns can be disassembled, but there's also things like guitar cases.
 

vooke

Active Member
What we know so far
Had help,probable woman accomplice still at large,intended to escape,not linked domestic terrorism
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
What we know so far
Had help,probable woman accomplice still at large,intended to escape,not linked domestic terrorism
for the record the "2 out 3 ain't bad" lyric was bunk in itself. So 1 out of 4 is definitely bad.
 

vooke

Active Member
for the record the "2 out 3 ain't bad" lyric was bunk in itself. So 1 out of 4 is definitely bad.
Everything I said is gleaned from Lombardo presser and NBC so you can do without Sarcasm
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
yes fair play but we at least know there were 586 rounds you'd have to admit were legitimate - and I'd have been fairly terrified if i'd been there
You can't just add up the number of dead and injured and say there must have been that many bullets fired. For one, thing not all the injuries might have been gunshot wounds, as there was also quite a stampede (although the police have stated that "most" injuries were from gunfire). And also, in a dense crowd, presumably one bullet can easily injure more than one person.
 

Henry Crun

New Member
You can't just add up the number of dead and injured and say there must have been that many bullets fired. For one, thing not all the injuries might have been gunshot wounds, as there was also quite a stampede (although the police have stated that "most" injuries were from gunfire). And also, in a dense crowd, presumably one bullet can easily injure more than one person.
Good point well made. Balancing that, though, not all bullets will have hit someone. Counting the gunshot sounds on the recordings would presumably tell.

Either way, though, even a single automatic weapon in his hands in that situation would class to me as a terrifying amount of firepower, but that may be coloured by me being British. It seems insane to make that sort of weapon so widely available.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
The Guardian accuses Youtube of promoting fake news of this event

 
The Guardian accuses Youtube of promoting fake news of this event

I can't imagine how people can be so callous, or companies so greedy. [...]
 
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