Is Contrail Science a CIA Disinformation site?

[Zane O'Neill]

But that's not true. There is research into possibly doing geoengineering in the future. But nobody has actually sprayed anything yet.

And as I pointed out elsewhere. Patents are proof only of the possibility that something might work, or that it might be used. They are no evidence at all that it IS being used. There's plenty of patents for manned moon base related technology, yet no manned moon bases.

What's the smoking gun? Where's the actual evidence?

Where is your evidence that nothing has been sprayed yet?

 

[Zane O'Neill]

It is not possible to prove a negative. What is your evidence that spraying has occurred? What evidence do you think Meghan has given to prove such spraying?

My evidence is Rain Water Samples containing Barium Strontium and Aluminium, there should be ZERO levels of those chemicals in the rainwater, PERIOD and the funny looking clouds we are getting now, all you have to do is look up, I have videos of planes spraying chemicals (not contrails) and I have a document from a Scientific Research company that says they are monitoring the aerosol spraying program in New Zealand. I got lots more this is just to start. I have a video that shows 2 planes flying at the exact same altitude, one spraying a contrail the other spraying a chemtrail

 

[GregMc]

So who wants to DEBUNK the video I just posted Contrail V's Chemtrail, my popcorn is out ???

You could first read the following science papers regarding the characteristics of contrails and how long they can persist:

http://journals.ametsoc.org/action/...hText=contrail&categoryId=allJournals&history

 

[George B]

Some people feel that Contrail Science is full of disinformation for the purpose of deception and is a tool of the CIA. Is there any evidence of this? If so what is the evidence.

 

[cloudspotter]

I thought it was MI5

 

[Zane O'Neill]

WOW what a cool thread I want Royalties...

 

[Zane O'Neill]

Can you prove it is not a CIA Disinformation site?

 

[Balance]

I thought it was MI5

They're all agents of the IllumiNOTi, or so I'm told.

 

[Zane O'Neill]

Can you see the other clouds 'just sitting there'?

Um yes I can see the clouds sitting there, but I also see a massive chemtrail just sitting there, where I dont see the plane which is at the same altitude as the chemtrail leaving a massive chemtrail, I just see a contrail tail following the plane which is not leaving a permanent trail

 

[cloudspotter]

Can you prove it is not a CIA Disinformation site?

Well it's difficult to prove who does or doesn't run the site but it should be very easy for you to prove it is a disinformation site.

 

[GregMc]

You could watch the video and see the Chemtrail just sitting there, and exactly the same altitude you have the plane leaving a contrail with a tail following it not leaving any permanent trail

I did watch the vid. I notice you were not using any flight tracking software to identify the aircraft or their altitude, nor did you make any attempt to calculate their altitude. You just assert without any basis that they formed at the same altitude. WHY do you assume they are at exactly the same altitude? I wonder if you have any familiarity with flight separation rules?
Do you understand what lapse rate means?

 

[Zane O'Neill]

JFDee, Because I know the guy who shot the video, he was there and I trust him

 

[KC-10FE]

Oh wow a pilot, you must be an expert then LOL here it is in motion pictures for you even..

Actually a flight engineer, a private pilot though. Are you suggesting that both of those planes are flying at the same altitude, in the same airmass? The one the author says is creating a contrail is quite higher than the one creating the alleged "chemtrail."

Persisting Contrails

The main products of fuel combustion are carbon dioxide and water vapor. At high altitudes this water vapor emerges into a cold environment, and the local increase in water vapor can raise the relative humidity of the air past saturation point. The vapor then condenses into tiny water droplets which freeze if the temperature is low enough. These millions of tiny water droplets and/or ice crystals form the contrails. The time taken for the vapor to cool enough to condense accounts for the contrail forming some way behind the aircraft's engines. At high altitudes, supercooled water vapor requires a trigger to encourage deposition or condensation. The exhaust particles in the aircraft's exhaust act as this trigger, causing the trapped vapor to rapidly condense.

If the air has so much water vapor in it already that it can't hold any more ("supersaturated"), then the ice crystals can't sublimate, and so the contrail will stay around for a long time. The ice crystals might even attract water from the air, if there is enough, and the contrail will get thicker. Winds might make the contrail spread out to even cover the whole sky. Airliners flying on published IFR routes or "jet routes" will create crossing patterns in this condition. Here is a picture of one of our IFR high charts.

So yes, if the condition are right, and the air is already saturated, contrails can and will persist. It has been documented in flying and science books for years. If the air is dry, the contrail will not persist.

 

[Zane O'Neill]

Well there you have it, the tables have turned on you all you all been Debunked now yourselves and you can now rest easy to know CHEMTRAILS do infact exist afterall and you are proving nothing to no one trying to debunk it...watch for a huge worldwide announcement coming up soon. You are gonna feel like idiots... Im off to bed its 2.30am here...sweet dreams and you might want to shut this site down if you dont wanna look like fools...LMAO...later! Its been fun

 

[cloudspotter]

Um yes I can see the clouds sitting there, but I also see a massive chemtrail just sitting there, where I dont see the plane which is at the same altitude as the chemtrail leaving a massive chemtrail, I just see a contrail tail following the plane which is not leaving a permanent trail

How can you tell it's a chemtrail?

 

[GregMc]

Um yes I can see the clouds sitting there, but I also see a massive chemtrail just sitting there, where I dont see the plane which is at the same altitude as the chemtrail leaving a massive chemtrail, I just see a contrail tail following the plane which is not leaving a permanent trail

What makes you assume the planes were both at the same altitude? Is it just "the vibe" ? I don't see any evidence of any attempt at altitude calculation or use of a flight tracker that documents altitude like flightradar24. Do you think planes flying the same flight routes always fly at the same altitude? Do you know what "flight separation rules" are and why they are used?

 

[JFDee]

Because I know the guy who shot the video, he was there and I trust him

Well, then he has certainly explained to you how he determined the exact altitude of the planes/trails ?

 

[WeedWhacker]

Where is your evidence that nothing has been sprayed yet?

A major axiom of the logical fallacy. "Argumentum ad ignorantiam" Argument from ignorance

Also called "false dichotomy".

Example:

• If a proposition has not been disproven, then it cannot be considered false and must therefore be considered true.

Here's another famous example: I tell you that I know that there is a teapot orbiting the Earth, out beyond Mars. You counter that argument, and say it isn't true. Then I say, "Where is your evidence that the teapot isn't there?"

 

[Balance]

and I trust him

It's not about trust, it's about facts. No-one can measure such distances by eye, that's absurd

 

[WeedWhacker]

My evidence is Rain Water Samples containing Barium Strontium and Aluminium, there should be ZERO levels of those chemicals in the rainwater, PERIOD...

For the record, here is a thread where one can get properly informed:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/natural-abundance-of-strontium-and-barium.822/#post-99978

 

[JFDee]

Can you prove it is not a CIA Disinformation site?

If you make a claim, the burden of providing evidence is on you.

You can start by pointing out specific factual errors - "disinformation" - on that site. If you can't find any, then your claim is baseless.

If you do spot any errors, the site owner has pledged to correct them. Test him!

 

[KC-10FE]

Ah the usual "I declare myself the winner and then cut and run" tactic

 

[NoParty]

Ah the usual "I declare myself the winner and then cut and run" tactic

I think what I'll miss the most was the truthiness.



p.s. Just saw news that Colbert will run off to take over Letterman's slot next year.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-colbert-to-replace-david-letterman-on-late-show/

 

[KC-10FE]

Well there you have it, the tables have turned on you all you all been Debunked now yourselves and you can now rest easy to know CHEMTRAILS do infact exist afterall and you are proving nothing to no one trying to debunk it...watch for a huge worldwide announcement coming up soon. You are gonna feel like idiots... Im off to bed its 2.30am here...sweet dreams and you might want to shut this site down if you dont wanna look like fools...LMAO...later! Its been fun

Please let us know when this big announcement will be, so I can assemble my Illuminati brethren for a secret underground viewing of such a momentous event. We wouldn't want to miss it for the world.

 

[deirdre]

Please let us know when this big announcement will be, so I can assemble my Illuminati brethren for a secret underground viewing of such a momentous event. We wouldn't want to miss it for the world.

noobs. KC, WE make the announcements, not the otherway round.

 

[Sarcastro]

Well there you have it, the tables have turned on you all you all been Debunked now yourselves and you can now rest easy to know CHEMTRAILS do infact exist afterall and you are proving nothing to no one trying to debunk it...watch for a huge worldwide announcement coming up soon. You are gonna feel like idiots... Im off to bed its 2.30am here...sweet dreams and you might want to shut this site down if you dont wanna look like fools...LMAO...later! Its been fun

Normally, I'd make some witty sarcastic remark to make you feel like a fool for what you've posted. But after reading this several times, all I got is "What?"

 

[Mick West]

there should be ZERO levels of those chemicals in the rainwater, PERIOD

I think this is the one claims that needs backing up here. Seeing as it is contrary to known science, and common sense.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp22-c6.pdf

Aluminum, as a constituent of soil, weathered rock, and solid waste from industrial processes, is transported through the atmosphere as windblown particulate matter and is deposited onto land and water by wet and dry deposition. Atmospheric loading rates of aluminum to Lake Michigan were estimated at 5 million kg/year (Eisenreich 1980). In this study, most of the aluminum was generally associated with large particles that were deposited near their source. In a study, the wet and dry deposition of aluminum was measured biweekly for 1 year at two sites on Massachusetts Bay, Turro and Nahant. The average total deposition rate was 0.1 g/m2-year, of which 29% was in rain (wet deposition) (Golomb et al. 1997).

 

[George B]

On his parting post on our PM discussion Zane left this link to support the environmental testing:

http://chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com/?s=rainwater

 

[KC-10FE]

On his parting post on our PM discussion Zane left this link to support the environmental testing:

http://chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com/?s=rainwater

I like how there are tshirts for sale on the same page

 

[NoParty]

I like how there are tshirts for sale on the same page

To be fair, Einstein almost always hustled his T-shirts prominently on his website.

 

[Soulfly]

To be fair, Einstein almost always hustled his T-shirts prominently on his website.
View attachment 6809

Want!

 

[Mick West]

On his parting post on our PM discussion Zane left this link to support the environmental testing:

http://chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com/?s=rainwater

Which just shows test after test showing expected results (especially given the lack of detail about how the samples were taken), and way lower than any of the limits they list.

Their claim seems to be that the values should be zero, but as noted above, that's contrary to all known science.

 

[NoParty]

Which just shows test after test showing expected results (especially given the lack of detail about how the samples were taken), and way lower than any of the limits they list.

Their claim seems to be that the values should be zero, but as noted above, that's contrary to all known science.

As usual, Mick, you're more thoughtful and diligent with regard to our new friend, Zane, than I probably ever could be.

My impression was that he was pretty late to the "chemtrails" party, and had seen and heard just enough
to be in that awkward "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" zone in which one cites mostly debunked things,
then declares oneself uniquely qualified to intellectually de-pants others…others who generally know considerably more.

I don't think of myself as an impolite person, but sometimes I wonder how you can be so diplomatic.

 

[Mick West]

I don't think of myself as an impolite person, but sometimes I wonder how you can be so diplomatic.

Well, I'm trying to get people to be more open minded about science. Not being polite makes them closed minded, which is something that took me a while to fully realize.

If someone is starting out with the belief that you are a CIA agent, then they are going to be very suspicious of you, so it's best just to stick to the most objective level of discussion possible. Just the facts, backed up with references. Leave out everything that is personal or subjective. Try to figure out if there is any common ground, and start from there.

@Zane O'Neill, I think, would agree that the above is an actual test, and that it shows 0.0116g/m3 of aluminum, and the "guideline value" is under 0.1. I think Zane would also agree that the "guideline value" are just an aesthetic value, not a safety value. Because that's what it says on the test. So I suspect we have some common ground there.

Where I suspect Zane disagrees, is if there would be any aluminum in rainwater at all. I would invite Zane to explain why he thinks there would be none, particularly in light of the CDC paper linked above that shows the opposite. (repeated here)

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp22-c6.pdf

Aluminum, as a constituent of soil, weathered rock, and solid waste from industrial processes, is transported through the atmosphere as windblown particulate matter and is deposited onto land and water by wet and dry deposition. Atmospheric loading rates of aluminum to Lake Michigan were estimated at 5 million kg/year (Eisenreich 1980). In this study, most of the aluminum was generally associated with large particles that were deposited near their source. In a study, the wet and dry deposition of aluminum was measured biweekly for 1 year at two sites on Massachusetts Bay, Turro and Nahant. The average total deposition rate was 0.1 g/m2-year, of which 29% was in rain (wet deposition) (Golomb et al. 1997).

And the dry deposition is also something that needs to be accounted for - if the sampling containers are left out for several days they can accumulate dust, which contains aluminum.

 

[MikeC]

Well there you have it, the tables have turned on you all you all been Debunked now yourselves and you can now rest easy to know CHEMTRAILS do infact exist afterall and you are proving nothing to no one trying to debunk it...watch for a huge worldwide announcement coming up soon.

I look forward to it.

Not holding my breath tho.

BTW can you prove you are not a CIA paid disinfo agent??

 

[MikeC]

Is CONTRAIL SCIENCE a CIA Disinformation site?

I refer you to Betteridge's law of headlines, which states:

Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.

 

[TWCobra]

Can Dane prove he isn't a reptilian shapeshifter? I look forward to his evidence to the contrary.

I think he is. My friend told me he was and I trust my friend!

 

[NoParty]

Well, I'm trying to get people to be more open minded about science. Not being polite makes them closed minded, which is something that took me a while to fully realize.

If someone is starting out with the belief that you are a CIA agent, then they are going to be very suspicious of you, so it's best just to stick to the most objective level of discussion possible. Just the facts, backed up with references. Leave out everything that is personal or subjective. Try to figure out if there is any common ground, and start from there.

Oh, I don't question the premise behind being über-polite...I just don't know how you consistently achieve it...especially towards the rude & loutish.

Probably just 'cause you're British.

 

[Jazzy]

Probably just 'cause you're British.

"British" incorporates a wide compass between "nice" and "nasty". Watch it.

 

[pseacraft]

Jazzy, your just the flip side of Mick's politeness pound coin and we love you for it mate.