Do you have any evidence to support your claims?
Is Barium in Jet Fuel?
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Yes and no. The use of Cesium in JP8 came to my attention in "Area 51" and has since been cited by some who were involved or claim knowledge of the F117 program. I leave it to fellow readers and panel to pursue further but it is a bona fide precedent in technology that has not been mentioned here, as far as I can see.
Re co-mingling of barium into the exhaust phase of jet it's just my own conjecture, as it would seem to tie the two camps on this debate together (avoiding damage to the engine while being integrated into release of barium / alumina particulates).
If you have evidence then post a link. You conjecture is just that. There is no evidence (samples showing high levels of barium, photos of post exhaust injection systems, etc.) of anything.
JP-7 is the fuel for the SR-71. No mention of barium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JP-7
"Area 51" is a published book and available online to anyone interested.
You mean this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51:_An_Uncensored_History_of_America's_Top_Secret_Military_Base
Not a credible source.The book, based on interviews with scientists and engineers who worked in Area 51, addresses the Roswell UFO incident[1][2] and dismisses the alien story. Instead, it suggests that Josef Mengele was recruited by the Soviet leaderJoseph Stalin to produce "grotesque, child-size aviators" to be remotely piloted and landed in America to cause hysteria in the likeness of Orson Welles' 1938 radio drama War of the Worlds, but that the aircraft crashed and the incident was hushed up by the Americans. Jacobsen writes that the bodies found at the crash site were children. Grotesquely but similarly deformed, aged around 12, each under five feet tall, with large heads and abnormally shaped oversize eyes. "They were neither aliens nor consenting airmen, but human guinea pigs", she claims.[3] Jacobson also interviews Richard Mingus who outlines an incident whereby Area 6 was attacked at gunpoint during the preparation of a nuclear test detonation.
KC-10FE
Senior Member.
What is your obsession with barium being in jet fuel? Is it your intent to prove that if it is, it has been placed there for sinister purposes? As mentioned before, barium is used in diesel fuel as a smoke suppressor. If this barium was so deadly you'd have a better chance of getting sick sitting in traffic behind a group of Mack trucks, inhaling their exhaust, as opposed to airliners flying at 35,000 feet above. Why is the chemtrail community not picketing outside truck stops to protest the evil truck drivers?
First it was aluminum in jet fuel, and that was debunked since any sort of metal introduced to a jet engine hot section, not to mention the turbine and compressor blades would have catastrophic results. Then the chemtrail community decided that it was aluminum oxide being sprayed from jet engines, but that wouldn't work since aluminum oxide is abrasive, and it found in sandpaper among other things, and would have the same result. From there it was nanoparticles of aluminum being used, that were allegedly so tiny they could not be detected, and then the chemmies decided strontium was being used as well.
I have been in aviation for most of my adult life, working jet engines for the Air Force for 6 years, and flying for the last 5 as a flight engineer. I have been around jet fuel daily, even getting it on my skin when changing engines or engine parts, and now when fueling the aircraft when we stop. I have experienced no health issues. One of my coworkers had Crohn's disease and got to experience the infamous Barium meal during his treatment. He is healthy as a horse after surgery.
So yes, the theory of aluminum and aluminum oxide being sprayed into the atmosphere, along with barium and strontium is pure bunk, and has been quite thoroughly debunked on this website numerous times.
First it was aluminum in jet fuel, and that was debunked since any sort of metal introduced to a jet engine hot section, not to mention the turbine and compressor blades would have catastrophic results. Then the chemtrail community decided that it was aluminum oxide being sprayed from jet engines, but that wouldn't work since aluminum oxide is abrasive, and it found in sandpaper among other things, and would have the same result. From there it was nanoparticles of aluminum being used, that were allegedly so tiny they could not be detected, and then the chemmies decided strontium was being used as well.
I have been in aviation for most of my adult life, working jet engines for the Air Force for 6 years, and flying for the last 5 as a flight engineer. I have been around jet fuel daily, even getting it on my skin when changing engines or engine parts, and now when fueling the aircraft when we stop. I have experienced no health issues. One of my coworkers had Crohn's disease and got to experience the infamous Barium meal during his treatment. He is healthy as a horse after surgery.
So yes, the theory of aluminum and aluminum oxide being sprayed into the atmosphere, along with barium and strontium is pure bunk, and has been quite thoroughly debunked on this website numerous times.
You picked a section unrelated to the SR-71 program but it's your privilege. Overall, the book is characterized by interviews with project engineers, de-classified memo's and FOIA data, so not sure why it wouldn't clear the hurdle.
There are trace amounts of lots of things in jet fuel, but trace amounts are pretty meaningless in the context of this thread.
Claims without evidence, and conjecture without evidence, have no place here.
I work in the petro-fuels trade so could provide numerous provisos and context to the Assay above, but it seems to serve the need at hand. However, please read what I previously said; that Barium could be injected into the exhaust phase. So, I did not assert Barium to reside in the fuel stream and combustion itself ( you may have mashed me with previous posters ).
If you don't provide for facts or technology which reside in the realm of de-Classified information you merely limit the exploration for truth to an exercise in proprietary website protocol. In other words, you may disallow the use of Cesium in military jet fuels but it appears almost certain to have occurred in the 1960's. Conjecture would be what is going on in the 1990's to present day avionics, in my opinion. I accept your ruling however.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
No, there is no method (nor need) to add "barium" into the exhaust of a jet engine.
JFDee
Senior Member.
There is no point in speculating as long as there is no indication of significant levels of Barium in jet exhaust.
So far, we have seen nothing but ground tests, mostly water mixed with dust. Plenty of likely barium sources on the ground.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Yes. And, those who make such claims and speculations are invited to use proper scientific methods and instruments to measure the exhaust in order to prove their assertions.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
It "COULD"? Well, I assert, similarly, that monkeys COULD fly out of my butt.
Jazzy
Closed Account
- You only mention barium because someone has mentioned it to you. It was first mentioned as part of a scam in 1998. As a material it is useful in oil and gas drilling muds, automotive paints, stabilizers for plastics, case hardening steels, bricks, tiles, lubricating oils, because it is a soapy agent. A hundred years ago it was useful as a light-emitting solid (barium oxide) in gas and paraffin lamps. It is dense, which is why it is used to displace underground petroleum, or in barium meals for X-ray purposes.
- Barium certainly couldn't be added safely to jet fuel except in minuscule amounts as a static-conductive material. If emitted at exhaust temperatures it would glow green, especially at night.
- Barium is not capable of producing a persistent-contrail-type trail for more than a mile or two. A persistent contrail is too heavy to be made of barium, or any material from an airplane. It is generally 99.99% made from atmospheric water vapor.
- If it were to be added to passenger jet exhausts the nozzles required would interfere with the thrust reversal mechanisms which rather comprehensively swing across the jet outlets. They would be plainly visible if they were fitted after the reversers. Such nozzles aren't fitted at all in any normal aircraft.
- Cesium wasn't mentioned in the case of the SR71. I believe the material was BORON (boron hydride). Maybe they considered other metallic hydrides, but they stopped considering them when they discovered they were impossibly pyrophoric, spontaneously combusting with both air and water.
- You might have to wait until the next time around the universe for experts in 60s high speed aviation to be available to you. In the meanwhile you'll find a few here. Not quite so expert, maybe, but still alive, yes.
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Jazzy
Closed Account
Richard A. Muller is possibly a "credible" source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Muller
Ask him while you can, because he must have known someone who worked there. He's my age so couldn't have actually worked there.
http://muller.lbl.gov
So Muller says (in his Youtube physics lecture series, which is still available to view), Area 51 was, in 1947 and for possibly twenty years thereafter, a listening post for Soviet atmospheric nuclear explosions, the sound energy of which could be (and was) detected by sensors placed at the tropopause (by suspending them from tethered balloons). The detectors were suspended on aluminum alloy rings, which they called "disks", or "saucers".
The demise of such a detector assembly certainly became the basis for "an industry", didn't it?
Snarf.
.
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NoParty
Senior Member.
Just for clarity, Jazzy's comment is not contradicting Landru's
(Muller is a credible source; he is also not the author of the book
Area 51: An Uncensored History...which is by Annie Jacobsen, a free-lance writer,
unfortunately better known as the woman who created the infamous 2004 "Syrian Terrorists" scare
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp)
Interestingly, her Area 51 book probably would've been much better received if she
hadn't stuffed the "large heads and abnormally shaped oversize eyes" wackiness in there.
(Muller is a credible source; he is also not the author of the book
Area 51: An Uncensored History...which is by Annie Jacobsen, a free-lance writer,
unfortunately better known as the woman who created the infamous 2004 "Syrian Terrorists" scare
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp)
Interestingly, her Area 51 book probably would've been much better received if she
hadn't stuffed the "large heads and abnormally shaped oversize eyes" wackiness in there.
Jazzy
Closed Account
Of course not. I just wanted to put some "REAL" info back into Metabunk. Too much woo and woo-denial still makes the woo the topic. Landru's an ace as far as I'm concerned.
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