Immaculate Constellation - Alleged USAP focused on UAP identification and crash-retrieval

[Stryder]

Very unusual document to say the least. Many, many inconsistencies as have been pointed out by others. I'll just comment on the internal inconsistency around secrecy. This document claims to be blowing the lid off of perhaps one on the most secure and secret projects in the history of the United States, yet it skimps on specifics around the individual claims. For example:

CENTCOM Cuboid Formation of Metallic Orbs: On USG networks, there exists daytime FMV and daytime-FLIR footage of a formation of~ 12 metallic orbs skimming the ocean surface at high-speed before dispersing in multiple directions. The rapid and agile maneuvering of the metallic orbs were incompatible with known aerospace vehicles ·and were between 3-6 meters in diameter. In the opening segment of this footage, the ~12 metallic orbs flew in a tight 'cuboid' formation; the metallic orbs were in three vertical-square formations of ~4 orbs each, arranged in a three-pronged configuration, creating the illusion of a cube shape at distance: All the orbs were white-hot against the black-c-old ocean in the FLIR footage, and each sphere created a feint atmospheric distortion both around itself and as a heat-shimmer 'contrail'. The metallic orbs moved in this cube formation over the ocean for some time, before rapidly breaking formation as pairs. The sensor platform lost track of most of the metallic orbs as they ascended in altitude and accelerated in speed but maintained observation on a pair of metallic orbs continuing the original trajectory of the larger formation.

While this seems very specific and probably refers to a real video (someone can add the event data since I don't recall the exact case), it is at the same time vague and misleading. Why say "On USG networks, there exists" unless to make the specific case more vague. Why not say on a Navy database (or even on the specific database, since surely the author must know which one he/she infiltrated to get it). Could it be that the author doesn't really know where it is stored and doesn't want to be discredited by someone that does? This also sounds like intentional misleading if it is on some database that's part of a public relations site or an official (transparent) government site such as AARO.

And where are the specifics about the circumstances, e.g. date, location, type of FMV and FLIR, aircraft involved, flight crew involved, etc. I can only conclude one of two things: 1) the author has seen the video, but has little inside information on it, which would be strange given that he claims to have the knowledge and access; or 2) the author is intentionally attempting to obfuscate the specific case to make it difficult to verify/debunk. A third possibility I discard is the author is trying to protect secrecy when clearly the whole intent of the document is to break secrecy.

If this were "real" there would be new, non-public information about every case, but I don't see it. Take a look at the other cases. They are all vague, while trying to sound specific.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Immaculate Con is doing what AATIP was doing up until 2017. But because Elizondo left the government to reveal AATIP, and Stratton stayed behind, Stratton and whoever else was managing the project would've needed a new code name, since the project was entirely unofficial and had to be kept secret from their enemies at the department.

So, IMM CONN is/was Stratton's carry on of AATIP either after Interloper or Interloper was a name Lue used in his book to not out IMM CONN. If we go with that, then what to make of this report.

Taken at face value, it seems to be someone describing IMM CONN as something they are not part of but found out about. What he describes is, as MapperGuy says, a filtering operation:

What they are describing is a filtering operation, that collects and reviews information from many sources and identifies "alien stuff". The problem is that the information being reviewed was in most cases collected for some other original purpose.

And as you said, that seems to be what AATIP was. Lue and Jay were running around looking for UAPs, mostly from the Navy. I think it's because Stratton was Navel Intelligence with contacts and UAP are/were much more stigmatized in the USAF.

Our author is describing IMM CONN as an AATIP like filtering program that he believes operates as a uSAP with no oversite. If it's like AATIP and an unofficial program, there would be no oversite because it's not a real program, not because it's a uSAP.

In this case, IF Stratton was running IMM CONN, then our author is either not Stratton or it's Stratton writing in the 3rd person. The rest of the report just seems to be the author telling us what he found that was presumably part of the data collected by IMM CONN. I think? But then if he's sharing UFO info he found on government systems, that's what AATIP was kinda doing and what IMM CONN was kinda doing. Right?

It's almost like he described IMM CONN, then went and did what IMM CONN does. And finding all this stuff doesn't seem to be all that hard, despite:

....a high level of compartmentalization and secrecy.

It's very convoluted. However, given the way various people inserted UAP language into KONA BLUE, then told ARRO there was a secret UAP program called KNOA BLUE, the idea that this report is written by the person running whatever IMM CONN was and has clouded that they are writing about their own little side gig is not farfetched.

As jdog says:

My hypothesis is that this document is the result of sanitizing a source document by having ChatGPT or some similar LLM rewrite it. That would give you awkward phrases like this, the repeated passive claim "On USG networks there exists...", the oddly phrased Latin.

Our author wrote up a description of his own little program, then some descriptions of what he found, changed the voicing around a bit and fed it as an AI writing prompt. The final "conclusion" paragraph alone is bazar enough to suggest this. "Be not afraid"?! Really?

I know, lots of speculation, but at least there's no need for aliens to explain it.

 

[Scaramanga]

Journalist Michael Shellenberger reports a new whistleblower's claim of an Unacknowledged Special Access Program denominated 'Immaculate Constellation' created in 2017, with the objective of UAP identification and crash-retrieval.



The full article can be read at Public News (https://www.public.news/p/pentagon-is-illegally-hiding-secret)


Shellenberger previously claimed in interviews to have spoken to whistleblowers who alleged that the U.S. government possesses at least 12 crafts of non-human origin, with six being in good shape. He stated that the sources also talked to David Grusch, who testified to Congress in July 2023 about the topic.[87]​[88]​[89]​

-------------------------------------------

Very interesting, but where's the Beef?
We've certainly had our fair share of Whistleblowers before, but if this is true, there should be several reports with sensor and imagery data.

As far as I Know, Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet is set to testify before congress on the upcoming hearing on November 13. Could he be the whistleblower?

Here's the bit I truly don't understand. Someone versed in American legal stuff will need to explain this to me....

Elizondo is doing two things simultaneously..

1) Claiming in public than an illegal crash retrieval program exists

2) Claiming to Congress that he is not allowed to discuss crash retrievals.

Now hold on just a moment. If the crash retrieval program is illegal then so too is any NDA surrounding it. A person surely cannot be held to legal compliance to an illegal contract.

The same applies to any whistleblowers. As the entire gist of what they are whistleblowing is an illegal and not overseen by Congress USAP.....whence comes all this cloak and dagger hiding of people who surely have the full force of law behind them ?

And why is whoever is responsible for prosecuting the illegality of such USAPs not taking action ? Is Congress powerless in its oversight of these matters ?

We keep having all these claims of illegality....yet it doesn't seem to be anyone's job to enforce legality on the matter, and people don't seem to have any problem standing by illegal contracts. All rather crazy.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Here's the bit I truly don't understand. Someone versed in American legal stuff will need to explain this to me....

Elizondo is doing two things simultaneously..

1) Claiming in public than an illegal crash retrieval program exists

2) Claiming to Congress that he is not allowed to discuss crash retrievals.

Now hold on just a moment. If the crash retrieval program is illegal then so too is any NDA surrounding it. A person surely cannot be held to legal compliance to an illegal contract.

The same applies to any whistleblowers. As the entire gist of what they are whistleblowing is an illegal and not overseen by Congress USAP.....whence comes all this cloak and dagger hiding of people who surely have the full force of law behind them ?

And why is whoever is responsible for prosecuting the illegality of such USAPs not taking action ? Is Congress powerless in its oversight of these matters ?

We keep having all these claims of illegality....yet it doesn't seem to be anyone's job to enforce legality on the matter, and people don't seem to have any problem standing by illegal contracts. All rather crazy.

Yeah this part makes no sense, there's so many layers of non-sense to that part it'd take forever to cover in depth. Congress is not powerless no, they're resting on the public not understanding how those mechanisms work. Though more key points:
-NDAs, clearance restrictions and etc DO NOT cover patent crimes. You cannot use these to cover up a crime, and speaking about it in said case would be fine as the contractual restriction is unobligated due to it advancing a crime.
-Crime aside, when it comes to this stuff, it's not hard to note they talk about these specific programs very in depth, but refuse to provide the names of the programs, locations, people or etc. Technically speaking, everything they speak about is of higher gravity and risk. If some OPSEC officer or security officer or whatever role was cherry picking what to release, in depth details about the program but not it's name entirely built to provide security if exposed, is not the more likely path.

 

[john.phil]

Is this Latin for "Don't trust the government; believe in your own truth!"?

It seems more in the lines of: "Untestable Evidence; I want to believe"

 

[Jack Mallory]

Here's the bit I truly don't understand. Someone versed in American legal stuff will need to explain this to me....

Elizondo is doing two things simultaneously..

1) Claiming in public than an illegal crash retrieval program exists

2) Claiming to Congress that he is not allowed to discuss crash retrievals.

I suspect that Lue is simply being Lue, and deliberately obfuscating his own responsibilities in an attempt to bolster his own credibility i.e. I'm a very important and patriotic government employee. I've signed NDAs! while also using that stance as an escape hatch by which he doesn't have to actually say much about the things he doesn't actually know much about.

I think it's plausible that he may have had some role in prosaic crash-retrievals—Chinese surveillance balloons, etc—and may have signed NDAs regarding such. But then when asked about UAPs—when he knows damn well the question is meant to uncover otherwordly "alien" UAPs—he hides behind his original NDA. As if to say, "Oh, did you just mention that words 'crash retrieval'? Yeah, I'm not allowed to talk about that subject." In many ways, it's the perfect out. It's a non-answer answer that still provides him with a degree of profitable mystery.

I could imagine his handlers had at one point told him, "Listen, Lue. We're working on Chinese balloons, downed Russian satellites, and a couple of Iranian drones that we acquired. But if you're ever asked, you are not to talk about 'crash retrievals'. Ever."

Fast-forward, and someone inquires about downed-UFOs, with the clear implication being (even if explicitly) Roswell etc. Lue doesn't know anything about the subject matter so he just falls back on his old trope of "not being able to talk about it." That still gives him the latitude to suggest that an "illegal" program exists somewhere while never offering up any evidence of anything. The ones he's not allowed to talk about are likely 100% legal. But instead of having to admit that he knows nothing of the "illegal" ones, he conveniently groups them together and shelters behind his legitimate NDAs.

[Sorry if that was redundant. I used probably way more words than necessary.]

 

[Mendel]

And where are the specifics about the circumstances, e.g. date, location, type of FMV and FLIR, aircraft involved, flight crew involved, etc. I can only conclude one of two things: 1) the author has seen the video, but has little inside information on it, which would be strange given that he claims to have the knowledge and access; or 2) the author is intentionally attempting to obfuscate the specific case to make it difficult to verify/debunk. A third possibility I discard is the author is trying to protect secrecy when clearly the whole intent of the document is to break secrecy.

If this were "real" there would be new, non-public information about every case, but I don't see it. Take a look at the other cases. They are all vague, while trying to sound specific.

In the instances of confirmed whistleblowing that we know (Panama Papers, wikileaks cables, Snowden,...), the whistleblowers have taken pains to responsibly share as much as they could, in as much detail as they could, because they knew they only had one shot at this.

But this is both whistleblowing and an officially cleared release:

I really want to ask the Department of State if they did in fact approve this for release; and I want to ask them who requested this to be approved for release. They would surely know who, which completely eliminates the rationale for not giving their name.

This does not read like a whistleblower document.
This reads like a script for a mystery TV series: tune in next week to find out more! And by the way, it's all real (wink)!

 

[Calter]

I came across this
Source: https://x.com/AlchemyAmerican/status/1857117947258413463?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet%7Ctwtr%5Etrue

Here is the missing "12th page" of The Immaculate Constellation docs provided to Congress yesterday. It was a cover letter by the great ⁦
@JeremyCorbell
⁩ who played a foundational role in the pretext for the hearing and should also get credit

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, Shellenberger got this report from Corbell (who got it from a nameless source)

 

[Mendel]

It seems more in the lines of: "Untestable Evidence; I want to believe"

I was interpreting the first part (scientia igne probata) as embodying the demand of the disclosure activists that the government should release the evidence that it has, so that the UFOlogists can burn test it, and then (veritas per fidem) stick to the "truth" they want to believe.

 

[Jack Mallory]

I came across this

Here is the missing "12th page" of The Immaculate Constellation docs provided to Congress yesterday. It was a cover letter by the great ⁦
@JeremyCorbell
⁩ who played a foundational role in the pretext for the hearing and should also get credit

Well, well, well. Wouldn't ya' know it. Corbell. And around and around we go.

@jackfrostvc This is what you were looking for.

 

[Mendel]

I came across this

"rogue government factions" is either a bombshell (if there is evidence), or a dog whistle for "the deep state".

It sounds made up to me.

And the claimed State Department clearance process almost certainly exposed the author anyway. Cloak&dagger theatre.

 

[John J.]

Edited to add: Written and posted before I read of the involvement of Mr Corbell.

Re. the "whistleblower's report" posted by @Mendel here and Mick here, courtesy of @Jack Mallory, I can't see anything in it that couldn't have been put together by someone familiar with the current UAP narratives (as advanced by "believers") and prepared to do some basic homework.

Unless there is further confirmatory evidence, I don't see any reason to take this seriously at all.
It's a list of assertions, some known UAP / UFO reports, and no new checkable evidence or data.
As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the report that indicates the author has a role in a US government agency, a defence or security contractor, or has left high school.

Final page, part 6:

These UAP events are treated by the security apparatuses of each state as serious national security threats due to UAP in proximity to sensitive military and intelligence facilities.
These facilities are most often associated with aerospace defense, strategic deterrence, and military-sponsored scientific research and development.

A few lines down, "VI. Conclusion" (incidentally, why "VI"?)

Moving forward, we must guard against the lure of authoritarian solutions justified by expediency and appeals to national security. The Good in humanity will always triumph through time,

So artefacts from one or more civilisations more technologically advanced than our own are taking an interest in our air defences, nuclear weapons and military R&D, but we must guard against appeals to national security.
"The Good in humanity will always triumph through time" is a noble sentiment but not a robust defence policy, let alone a useful guideline for dealing with ETI who seem disturbingly interested in our military capabilities.

To be honest, I suspect the only beneficiaries from ever-greater openness of US special access programs will be the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin's gang of criminals administration.
Maybe this should be raised with Nancy Mace, the South Carolina Congresswoman who has publicised this "report".

A quick testable hypothesis: 6 months from now, and 1 year from now, we will still have no real evidence of

...the existence of Non-Human Intelligences (NHis) and their presence on Earth...

...perhaps because there aren't any NHIs on Earth or anywhere nearby.

 

[Mendel]

As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the report that indicates the author has a role in a US government agency, a defence or security contractor, or has left high school.

the latter may indicate LLM ("AI") authorship

A quick testable hypothesis: 6 months from now, and 1 year from now, we will have no real evidence of

...the existence of Non-Human Intelligences (NHis) and their presence on Earth...

...perhaps because there aren't any NHIs on Earth or anywhere nearby.

That's a prediction previously made over 40 years ago; it has stood the test of time.

Article:

The UFO curse
Klass left this statement, originally published in Moseley's newsletter ''Saucer Smear'' on October 10, 1983.

THE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF PHILIP J. KLASS
To ufologists who publicly criticize me, ... or who even think unkind thoughts about me in private, I do hereby leave and bequeath:
THE UFO CURSE:
No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs than you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today. And you will remember this curse.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Klass#The_UFO_curse

 

[john.phil]

"Tortured phrases". If it's output of an LLM, perhaps these techniques might be detect it:

I tried GPTZero (https://gptzero.me/), and it is highly confident that the text is not AI generated.

It gave a high probability of "Section 7: Sensitive Sources" and "From mouth to ear" to be AI generated, though.

 

[NorCal Dave]

"Tortured phrases". If it's output of an LLM, perhaps these techniques might be detect it:

Tortured Phrases Detector
️ Check potentially problematic papers ...

-- https://dbrech.irit.fr/pls/apex/f?p=9999:24

[/ex]

I can't seem to figure out how to run a paper, like this report, through the scanner. It looks like it automatically scans published academic papers looking for things like "tortured phrases" and problems. Using the "conclusion" paragraph, the free AI checkers like Scibber say it's not AI generated. Like no AI would write something this trite. Same as @john.phil did above.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, Shellenberger got this report from Corbell (who got it from a nameless source)

Good Lord! We need an "I am depressed" emoji:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqxbeEy8dMk

rogue government factions" is either a bombshell (if there is evidence), or a dog whistle for "the deep state".

I'm thinking more like the MiBs, which far predate the "deep state" in UFO lore. When you asked me to check for a claim in the book Skinwalkers at the Pentagon for the congressional hearing thread, I came across a fanciful story.

It seems a DHS employee recalled how his backwoods rural town in a Kentucky "holler" had no power or utility services. One day, in 2006, a UFO comes floating across town and everybody sees it. The next day, black SUVs pulled up and men in black suits with dark glasses, (MiBs) got out and threatened the locals saying: "It's in your best interest to not talk about this incident". They all did as told, and sure enough 6 months later the whole "holler" got 'lectrified! Like as a reward for staying quite.

Seriously, a guy named Mover at DHS supposedly told this story.

The MiBs and the idea of threating or even killing people was reported on Shellenberger's Public website and discussed before:

Now, Public has compiled 75 years' worth of testimony from UAP witnesses, civilians, and military personnel who say they have been threatened with death, or other forms of punishment, for speaking out publicly about what they have seen.

What's more, there is at least one whistleblower who claims to have issued threats to UAP witnesses. Retired U.S. Air Force Master Sergeant, Daniel Morris, reported that the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) recruited him after he served in Air Force Intelligence.

"I would go interview people who claimed they had seen something and try to convince them they hadn't seen something or that they were hallucinating," Morris said. "If that didn't work, another team would come in and give all the threats, and threaten them and their family … And they would be in charge of discrediting them, making them look foolish … Now if that didn't work, then there was another team that put an end to that problem, one way or another."

https://www.public.news/p/alleged-death-threats-against-ufo

MiBs and death threats are standard fair in UFOlogy, something Corbell is just using again. It also sets up the perfect situation, where rumors and 2nd hand accounts have to be taken as evidence, because anything more specific could get someone killed.

Trust me Bro, or they'll kill us!

 

[John J.]

Well, thankfully Mr Corbell, David Grusch, Lue Elizondo etc. etc. are still very much with us (and let's hope they are for a long time yet. Wish they'd change their minds on a few things though).

It seems the baddies who are keeping all the super technology and amazing aliens from us are just as inefficient at intimidation and "silencing" as they are at keeping retrieval programs secret, or compiling documents that look authoritative.
They're so poor at doing their job properly, it's almost as if they don't exist.
As we are assured that disclosure is imminent anyway, you American taxpayers should rally to the call, "Defund the MiBs!"

 

[Ann K]

On USG networks, there exists...

Any parent of a small child recognizes the cover-your-ass usage of the passive voice: "It broke", instead of "I broke it". There are countless instances of that construction in congressional hearings. Then we get to the conspiracy aspects of Elizondo "not allowed to say", and Corbell's "courageous whistleblower" and "potentially lethal retaliation" inflammatory language. The country appears to be so seriously divided between people who believe those words and people for whom the choice of language alone casts suspicion on both their testimony and their intentions.

The more we debunk, the more we are considered to be in that latter camp. Our powers of persuasion seem to be disconnected from our powers of explanation. Any suggested tactics for negotiating that minefield would be welcome.

 

[JMartJr]

Our powers of persuasion seem to be disconnected from our powers of explanation. Any suggested tactics for negotiating that minefield would be welcome.

That deserves a thread, to assess/re-assess how we communicate what we do and why we do it, in the current social milieu. I do not know the answer, I keep trying different things. I have found gentle humor aimed at the ideas rather than at the people to have some effect, and the use of illustrative images rather than words (I save my seas of words for here, lucky y'all!) or to supplement words. I know of no "silver bullet" though.

 

[MonkeeSage]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, Shellenberger got this report from Corbell (who got it from a nameless source)

A UFO filmmaker who does a lot of shrooms is the source of the document? Can't image why they left that out when providing it to Congress.

 

[Dave51c]

Our powers of persuasion seem to be disconnected from our powers of explanation. Any suggested tactics for negotiating that minefield would be welcome.

Obviously we are up against media who propagate sensationalism for clicks, as well as a media savvy group of people who know how to play the game had have no qualms about it. For example these videos appeared in my YouTube feed after watching the latest congress hearing via Associated Press;

Maybe we should get with the program

 

[Rationalman]

Full document attached, via:
https://mace.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/mace.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/Cannon 212_20241113_154539.pdf

Attached version is OCRed, so you can copy and paste sections.

Are the Terms defined like Reproduction Vehicle (RV)?

 

[Scaramanga]

"Defund the MiBs!"

The who ? Sorry...there was this blinding flash of light and now I've totally forgotten who the MIB are.

 

[Ann K]

The Who are a completely different thing, of course...

 

[Jack Mallory]

At the end of the document in post #79, and now available from the official link, there is a Latin motto that summarises it:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO12/20241113/117721/HHRG-118-GO12-20241113-SD003.pdf

"Scientia Igne Probata; Veritas Per Fidem"

Which translates to "Knowledge tested by fire; Truth, through faith".

Some folks on Twitter were discussing an interesting coincidence regarding that line (and I'm surprised I didn't pick up on this myself because I watched this video quite recently.)

We all know how the the legend and lore of UFOlogy is constantly recycled by the usual suspects, so I do wonder if the inspiration for that quote came from this classic alien abduction tale. The opening two minutes reveal this story:

Betty Andreasson: "They [the aliens] told me that they needed "knowledge tried by fire", and the only think I could think of...was the Bible."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GQroBJdNgk

 

[Jack Mallory]

This could prove to be interesting.

Source: https://x.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1857957297047351327


Screenshot of full tweet:

Slideshow:
https://www.slideserve.com/clive/innovision-future-warfare-systems-office

Anyone here familiar with Jon Estridge? A quick Metabunk search on his name yielded no results, so it seems he hasn't yet made his way into any conversations.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

This could prove to be interesting.

Source: https://x.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1857957297047351327


Screenshot of full tweet:
View attachment 73181

Slideshow:
https://www.slideserve.com/clive/innovision-future-warfare-systems-office

Anyone here familiar with Jon Estridge? A quick Metabunk search on his name yielded no results, so it seems he hasn't yet made his way into any conversations.

Greenstreet hasn't replied but I did send this to him, copying it for brevity since it pretty much covers it all but there is a bit of a red flag with this claim.

"It was made in/a little before 2014 and it's not a proposal document or anything. This is a "customer" powerpoint that you'd take with you to meetings for your intelligence customers and speak to what you do. Note how most of the presentation is about NGA in general, only like 10% of it is even about FWS.
It also doesn't talk about anything related to what "Immaculate Constellation" claims, nor does it contain anything any of the other UAP programs we know about have included, objectives nor any related specific wording or etc.

I do not believe this actually inspired or caused "Immaculate Constellation" to be opened or etc. It'd be like saying reading a training manual for your job or NGAs policy documents acted as inspiration because it gave background knowledge to your job.
On the other hand FWS absolutely would be relevant to some of the sensor activities supporting those programs, just the document entirely lacks reference or insinuation of such."

 

[Resistor]

Another thing that's funny about all these alleged "whistle-blowers" and their access to Super-Duper-Above-Top-Secret information is that none of them (to my knowledge) have ever revealed the true nature of MIL/INTEL classification according to those were legitimate intel insiders, such as Daniel Ellsberg. Ellsberg provided a very comprehensive overview of his experiences with the various levels of secrecy within the Intel community—how they're parsed out, how one gains access (or doesn't), how many levels are "hidden" from others, and how the system quite effectively keeps many, many secrets from ever seeing the light of day. He devotes a few pages in his book The Doomsday Machine to this very topic, but I've yet to find any excerpts online that I could copy/paste and share.

Suffice to say, for now, that none of the better-known pretenders of the past several years have even come close to describing, or claiming access to, the systems and methods described by Ellsberg. I've always found that to be highly suspect. Ellsberg was the very definition of "whistle-blower", and, due to his assignments, was privy to things that most were not.

His role was somewhat similar to what we're told was the role of Sean Kirkpatrick (but without the UAP/NHI angle). Ellsberg was granted far-reaching access in order to evaluate the preparedness of the U.S. in case of a nuclear conflict. This meant digging into all levels in the chain of command, from Intel planners to the pilots and navy commanders themselves, around the world, who would execute such orders should they be given. It also included an assessment of our enemies capabilities, which, of course, could only be derived from having access to our own highly-guarded counterintelligence. In order to fully understand such a crucial issue in all its fine details, Ellsberg was given unhindered access to all those details. The Pentagon Papers, and what they ultimately revealed about the gross mismanagement (to say the very least) of the Viet Nam war, actually paled in comparison to much more grave and dire revelations that Ellsberg uncovered about our plans for a global nuclear conflict. But that's another story entirely.

My point is: Daniel Ellsberg was the real deal. Yet none of the talking heads of today's clownish cloak-and-dagger world of UAP/NHI have ever provided anything even close to the verifiable authenticity of Ellsberg's work. In fact, they don't even present a coherent perspective on how the inner-circles of their own agencies even operate. But I hear big things are "coming soon."

I agree with your assessment, I have not seen any credible evidence of the claims from any of these "experts." I have not read the book the doomsday machine. You may be able to find the details of how data and management of classified programs is managed using key word searches here - https://www.esd.whs.mil/Directives/issuances/dodd/

 

[CasualDebunk]

I find it baffling, as a non-American, that a member of Congress could wave around a document with seemingly no credible provenance. It seems like something that could just as easily have been written by a teenager in their parents' basement as a prank. Is there any reason to believe this document holds even an ounce of legitimacy? It's difficult to wrap my head around how something like this can be taken seriously in such an important setting.

 

[Ann K]

I find it baffling, as a non-American, that a member of Congress could wave around a document with seemingly no credible provenance. It seems like something that could just as easily have been written by a teenager in their parents' basement as a prank. Is there any reason to believe this document holds even an ounce of legitimacy? It's difficult to wrap my head around how something like this can be taken seriously in such an important setting.

"Member of congress" has lost its meaning, and no longer denotes a person who is important because of merit. It just means a person who was able to scrape up more votes than his opponents.

The current crop of UFO proponents (both in and outside of congress) are the present-day version of the Cargo Cult. Aliens are coming from distant planets to lend us peace, prosperity, limitless energy sources, free love, and the keys to their spacecraft. Nanu nanu.

 

[jdog]

"Member of congress" has lost its meaning, and no longer denotes a person who is important because of merit. It just means a person who was able to scrape up more votes than his opponents.

The current crop of UFO proponents (both in and outside of congress) are the present-day version of the Cargo Cult. Aliens are coming from distant planets to lend us peace, prosperity, limitless energy sources, free love, and the keys to their spacecraft. Nanu nanu.

The added benefit of demanding "disclosure" of government data that either does not exist or would reveal technical national security secrets is that you get a "deep state" issue you can complain about that you never have to worry about being resolved.

 

[Jack Mallory]

I find it baffling, as a non-American, that a member of Congress could wave around a document with seemingly no credible provenance. It seems like something that could just as easily have been written by a teenager in their parents' basement as a prank. Is there any reason to believe this document holds even an ounce of legitimacy? It's difficult to wrap my head around how something like this can be taken seriously in such an important setting.

Keep in mind that while Senators may be held to a slightly higher standard (2 for each state, 100 in total, six-year terms), members of House of Representatives (435 total, two-year terms) are generally of lower-IQ—often shockingly so. And I don't say that flippantly. There are some incredibly dumb people occupying those seats.

 

[taurusclover21]

There are some incredibly dumb people occupying those seats.

Who also chair UAP hearings.

 

[JMartJr]

members of House of Representatives (435 total, two-year terms) are generally of lower-IQ—often shockingly so. And I don't say that flippantly. There are some incredibly dumb people occupying those seats.

Just as a data point:
There are currently 18 members of the House with doctorates, that's 4.14% of the members. This compares to around 2.13% of the population as a whole. (There are currently 3 Senators out of 100 with doctorates.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_politicians_with_doctorates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States

And while I'm aware that "doctorate" /= "smart," and I am certainly aware of a number of profoundly stupid and profoundly ignorant members of Congress, I am not aware of any data on the IQs of members of both bodies as whole.

 

[MapperGuy]

Keep in mind that while Senators may be held to a slightly higher standard (2 for each state, 100 in total, six-year terms), members of House of Representatives (435 total, two-year terms) are generally of lower-IQ—often shockingly so. And I don't say that flippantly. There are some incredibly dumb people occupying those seats.

Way back when I was young the "typical" member of Congress was a middle aged man with a college degree who served in the military in WW2. Then spent a decade or two in local or state politics before moving to Congress.

Compare that with today's Congress critters who only got their GED while running for office. They have no education or real world experience outside of their social media echo chamber and were selected to run for Congress by wealthy donors looking for people to do their bidding. Feeling important and getting rich are their primary ambitions and actually governing is something they are not interested in or qualified to do.

 

[Ann K]

And while I'm aware that "doctorate" /= "smart," and I am certainly aware of a number of profoundly stupid and profoundly ignorant members of Congress, I am not aware of any data on the IQs of members of both bodies as whole.

Nor am I aware of statistics, but, as blatantly shown during the height of the Covid pandemic (and a good many other times), there are anecdotally a bunch of villages who sent their idiots to Washington. Giving each of them a microphone, a blog, a TV appearance, or a social media presence has put their ignorance on full display, while in previous decades they might have managed to fly under the radar.

I fondly remember the days when the "news" was fifteen minutes of Lowell Thomas. You can't fit a lot of lies into fifteen minutes.

 

[John J.]

...there are anecdotally a bunch of villages who sent their idiots to Washington. Giving each of them a microphone, a blog, a TV appearance, or a social media presence has put their ignorance on full display...

I think that sentiment applies to quite a few other countries nowadays.
Problem is (in my jaded opinion) politicians trumpeting ridiculous views / unrealistically simple solutions seem to tap into the views of a significant number of voters, so it's a politically viable path to take.
Still; that's democracy- worst way of governing a nation except for all the others, or however the saying goes.

Bring back the politicians in rumpled suits who don't know what a vlog is but can quote statistics from reputable sources, the ones who you wouldn't look at twice in the street but who had a solid history of work/ study/ service before politics, and who understood the difference between "opposition" and "enemy".
"Boring" has never been so under-rated as now.

(O.T., soz).

 

[Ann K]

"Boring" has never been so under-rated as now.

That's why "May you live in interesting times" is a curse, not a blessing.