That was a painful watch. Despite the very nice production values, the information was interspersed with very hyperbolic statements and claims as usual from Knapp and Corbel.
The interview is only vaguely linier with the first few minutes being
en media res, or somewhere in the story but not the beginning. Much of the information is scattered about, so I tried to offer highlights in a linier fashion so as to make sense.
TL,DR: Brown appears to have worked on WMD at the Pentagon as a contractor. While there he got interested in UFOs after the NYT '17 article and spent spare or company time searching government servers for UFO stuff. He stumbled upon what he describes as something like a Power Point deck about Immaculate Constellation. This interview, like the supposed "report" that Brown authored, and Corbel presented to congress, is based off his memories from viewing this file 7 years ago.
First up who is Mathew Brown and how did he find this information. With a BA in International Affairs, he landed a job at a Washington DC Think Tank then ended up at the Pentagon or an intell agency, it's a bit vague. There he worked primarily on WMD (weapons of mass destruction). Exactly what that meant or when this was is again, a bit vague. I've edited some of the time stamps out for brevity:
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9:40
I got a degree in international affairs came out to DC started working in a small think
tank uh from there I uh applied to and was accepted to a intelligence agency
ended up taking a job uh at the at the Pentagon um basically waiting for the
right opportunity for that world to to pop up um what was which when it did uh
I you know was having too much fun so I said no you're in the Pentagon weapons of mass destruction as
10:19
a general umbrella under which you're you're working did you got a security clearance at that point yeah I had been
cleared by DIA for a top secret uh SEI clearance you get to see I guess
firsthand all this different information that comes in from all over these places different platforms right you're exposed
to that…
Then he moved over to the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence:
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14:52
in there a little over four years but I was in the Pentagon a little over five cuz I moved uh out of there briefly into
uh the under secretary of defense for intelligence and a smaller office in
This is all contractor work, he was working for a contractor:
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15:11
you're working for a contractor but you're working at the Pentagon on Pentagon business and that's sort of a model that is used for all
At some point he went to George Wahington University for an MA, but never completed his master's thesis:
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16:52
try to get a master's yeah i uh went to George Washington University Masters of
Security Policy Study uh got to the point where I had a thesis to submit uh
and then I started working at the Pentagon took a break and uh kind of got caught up in the churn as the term is
There is also a lot of what I would call "fluffing and padding" in the interview. Knapp and Corbel go out of their way to praise Brown for his hard work and commitment, just an example:
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i mean in fact like you've never been to like a UFO conference or anything like that have you no no right that's not
your style no you're a very analytically minded person that's something I've I've learned um I bet you're [ __ ] really
20:20
good at your job because just the way our communications the way you deep dive into research that's a talent to be able
to pull a lot big source information all source information and kind of come to conclusions you that you that is one of
your skill sets yeah absolutely um did you ever work 9 to5 because you're kind of a workaholic right i mean you go over the top
I really got the feeling they were trying to pump him up, because compared to a Grusch or Elizondo, Brown has a much weaker resume in a scene where perceived credibility is important. Likewise, Brown stresses he's doing this for the good of the country even though he might face execution:
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8:57
what could happen to you my uh hope is that the stakes are uh not paid out um but they are life imprisonment and the possibility of execution
There're all kinds of standard UFO tropes like a secret government or the military industrial complex and various corporate entities actually being in control of all this. They have all the UFOs for their own nefarious reasons. Included is a comparison of Brown to Bob Lazar (28:58). Seriously. The guy revealing the existence of Immaculate Constellation is on par with a bankrupt, polygamist and convicted sex offender (pandering) who's unsubstantiated fantasies have never panned out.
The gist is that after the NYT article that introduced Elizondo and AATIP, Brown got around to looking for UAP files on the government servers he had access to. While Knapp tries to insinuate that Brown found these files as part of his official top secret job, Brown whiffs on the softball and admits he was just farting around on government servers, likely on company time, looking for UAP stuff. He says:
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32:29
shared by all the offices in OSD um what I was doing through at what I was doing
at the time was opening files that were clearly misfiled and either sorting them to our offic's uh you know part of that
uh server or putting them in their own box to be sorted by other responsib
In his digging around, Brown "stumbled" upon this file which sounds like a Power Point deck. So, some possibilities are:
- It's very highly classified and was left where he could see it by mistake.
- It's not classified, or at least not in a way that hid it from Brown's own clearance. It's something like a war game scenario as described upthread.
- It's a joke, ruse or satirical file created for fun, or maybe poke fun at Elizondo, and shared around on government servers.
- It's a serious creation of UFO believers in government and shared around on government servers.
- It's something like 3 or 4 and planted on government servers so it can be discovered.
- It doesn't exist at all, and Brown is completely making it up.
- Brown is sharing a jumble of confabulations from different files he saw over a period of time.
Recall from another thread that Kirkpatrick made a point of talking about UFO people in government uploading UFO content onto government servers, either to share or as plants to be found.
What is important is that as far as I can tell listening to the 3 of them, the so-called "report" on ImConn that was gallantly shred with congress, isn't so much a "report", rather it's Brown's 7-year memory of what he saw:
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34:10
expecting to see and it was accompanied by text um to summarize uh please have some
grace with me it's been 7 years but it was saying that Immaculate Constellation
What he describes, as noted above, is a 12 slide Power Point deck, not a secret file of UFOs and aliens. It's a set of slides that would be used in a presentation, supposedly about ImConn. Even then it's unclear what's going on. He says the first few slides, after Elizondo's cameo, go straight to talking about the Russians and a black triangle:
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36:36
time I had no formal training in what saps were there was no sap marking on this just a name immaculate
constellation um the the opening slide you know just we would call it
improperly labeled um improperly classified what was it what what did it show so the the next slide the third
36:56
slide about uh just jumps straight into the the mission of this app and showing
what uh apparently the results of that mission are and it's um a a collection incident in the
Pacific Ocean uh the subject of collection is uh several Russian naval
intelligence vessels in the middle of the ocean at night and above those vessels is a large black triangle uh
I'm assuming that the images and supposed slides we see are recreations based on Brown's recollections. Even then, it seems odd. These slides have photos of the black triangle over the Russian ships, taken from sea level, but also plenty of text explaining what were seeing:
40:37
sorry I should say the analysis in the text was that the Russian Navy uh had
foreknowledge that this vehicle would appear in that area of the ocean and they were there specifically to either
collect on it themselves or to interact with it in some way (Corbel)any indication that it might be theirs that they knew it'
When Knapp asks what exactly is the mission of "Immaculate Constellation", Brown admits that the deck is vague, slides are probably missing and he's kinda reading between the lines:
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(Knapp)the first kind of event but what was the mission what was the mission that's what people want to know is what was the mission of Immaculate Constellation as
described in the product
(Brown)so in the product itself you had to piece together the mission um by reading the whole
thing and kind of putting together the parts uh you know it never spelled out
fully like as it should uh the mission of the SAP and I assume that's because
this is a type of brief where there will be inserts to the deck which would be inserted by the SAP control officer
So, even if Brown's memory of this deck is accurate 7 years later, he's still giving us his interpretation of what he thought ImConn was all about. He's remembering how he interpreted what he saw 7 years ago. If at any time those memories are not sufficiently UFOlogical, Knapp and Corbel are there to jump in with lots of speculation and suggestions:
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41:33
(Corbel) um in the Pacific Ocean that's what struck me i mean my mind goes to the idea that they were kind of camped out
41:39
you know deep uh kind of ocean in this one specific area durationally um it
kind of implies to me if I'm thinking outside the box here there's some form of um comms or communication with
whoever the operators are of this craft am I going too far with that idea or
While the interview is ~46:00, most of the useful stuff about the actual file starts around 35:00 and of course ends with a "wait for the next installment". Guess we'll have to wait for more.
