[HOAX] "Glowing Tic-TaC" UFO in southern France [Possibly a Drone]

Itsme

Active Member
Hoaxers simply disrupt scientific progress. Imagine people bombarding SETI radio antennas with fake signals just for fun.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The sensor reflections/lens flares argue against that.
One thing I was going to point out about sensor reflections - they all seemed very similar in color and motion (from stabilization.) Which made suspect they were all done with the same phone camera.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Hoaxers simply disrupt scientific progress. Imagine people bombarding SETI radio antennas with fake signals just for fun.
Not a good analogy. The destruction of SETI equipment wouldn't be taken for an alien signal.

UFO hoaxes, on the other hand, can point out the credulity of UFOlogists.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Ah. Remi Gaillard is not specifically a UFO hoaxer; just a general prankster. So this was probably done in the simplest possible way - a flying model. Whether quadcopter or RC airplane. I still lean strongly toward model airplane. But who knows? It might even be a kite.

In the case of kite or quadcopter I can imagine a line of LEDs made to rotate on its minor axis like a fan or prop, rather than the whole structure rolling. But that seems unnecessarily complex.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Translated transcript of Gaillard's admission video, set to me on Twitter:
 

dimebag2

Active Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rémi_Gaillard

Like Mick said they probably recorded the sound afterwards, it's not the sound from the original video. A drone then, with maybe a bit of CGI to enhance the light ? They will have a video to explain it soon.
 
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CeruleanBlu

Senior Member.
There are a lot of people making remarks about what is "expected" from certain RC aircraft, and I'm here to tell you there are no expectations you can honestly have without knowing more about the hobby.

First I'd like to introduce you to F3P competition flight, a form of indoor radio controlled aerobics using highly specialized equipment including reversible pitch propellers that allow the somewhat standard looking fixed-wing aircraft to hover, and indeed travel backward through the air. (They are also extraordinarily quiet in flight.)


Then there's competitive 3D flying, which also involves some maneuvers that most people wouldn't "expect" from an airplane. Some of these maneuvers take such skill and precision as to seem almost impossible to someone like me who actually flies RC planes, so I can imagine how someone who has never flown one would react to seeing this.


People keep talking about "amazing moves" that no drone or airplane could ever make, and it just makes me realize that many people have no idea what's currently possible with existing tech. Nothing I've ever seen in one of these UFO videos would be impossible in my opinion.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Thanks. That's all true. I flew old fashioned balsawood and doped tissue paper free-flight models as a kid. But that was a long time ago.

But another factor is that people are "seeing" 3 dimensional motions as 2 dimensional motions. Which has been an issue in UFO accounts since the beginning.
 

CeruleanBlu

Senior Member.
I find a lack of technological awareness to also be a common denominator in a number of the true believer crowd. So many years wasted researching imaginary accounts from compelling individuals, and little to no time investigating the realities of the world around them.

A co-worker of mine is an "abductee" style true believer who imagines that the few moments each day she spaces out and loses track of time that she is actually being taken from earth into a spaceship somewhere, was once relating to me a story from her younger days that helped her start believing in aliens. She described her and a friend witnessing these small craft that were flying at incredible speeds in loops around a mountain top in California. They could see these things appear over the top of the cliff, starting out they'd slowly circle the edge of the mountain ridge, gaining speed, getting faster and faster to the point she believes "no bird, no model airplane or any human made thing" would have survived the incredible speeds of this tiny object darting in circles in front of her. "It was flying hundreds of miles per hour!" These craft would then "blink out" and disappear quickly over the hill, only to return a few minutes to an hour later, in almost the same spot.

To me it sounded as if she were describing slope soaring RC aircraft. The mountain ridge she was looking at was a popular destination for hobby flyers in search of records like this guy, who achieved over 500 MPH with a type of RC airplane she had never heard of before. I showed her a similar video and asked her if it's possible this is what she was seeing, she was astonished that something like this could even exist. While I doubt it changed her alien beliefs, it at least gives her a reason to question her original "no human made object" claims. And she no longer troubles me with alien stuff, as she knows I'm ready and willing to debunk any nonsense.

 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I understand modern model RC planes are capable of some crazy stuff, but the video movements look so drone like the only reason RC planes were being bought up was the lack of drone noise in the videos.

I guess we'll see when/if they release the "how" video.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
Since we're looking at how things fly, especially at night, here are some maneuverable sport kites with leds, team flying ar night. The ones on the right are dual line "deltas," further back and screen left are some four-line "Revs" that are capable of spinning in place like a propeller, hovering, backing up, etc.
Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KStMeZ-vRFo


I do not think the object in the video is one of these, but in creating a hoax something like this might be used.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
In that case, the spinning motion of the bar of light we see may be a "beta movement effect." Simply lights going on and off in a pattern. The old neon sign trick.
 

Ravi

Active Member
There are a lot of people making remarks about what is "expected" from certain RC aircraft, and I'm here to tell you there are no expectations you can honestly have without knowing more about the hobby.
First I'd like to introduce you to F3P competition flight, a form of indoor radio controlled aerobics using highly specialized equipment including reversible pitch propellers that allow the somewhat standard looking fixed-wing aircraft to hover, and indeed travel backward through the air. (They are also extraordinarily quiet in flight.)
Then there's competitive 3D flying, which also involves some maneuvers that most people wouldn't "expect" from an airplane. Some of these maneuvers take such skill and precision as to seem almost impossible to someone like me who actually flies RC planes, so I can imagine how someone who has never flown one would react to seeing this.
People keep talking about "amazing moves" that no drone or airplane could ever make, and it just makes me realize that many people have no idea what's currently possible with existing tech. Nothing I've ever seen in one of these UFO videos would be impossible in my opinion.

I am not disagreeing that what we see in the video (object "stopping", rotating while it is stopped moving and then speeding off again) might be possible with an RC plane (well I have not seen anything like that in the videos you supply either). But the idea of a quadcopter with a light bar underneath sounds to me more probable. They just removed the prop noise.
 

Radapox

Member
Lol, it amuses me how both believers and debunkers are super annoyed by this hoax and nobody is like "Hah, he got us. Nice one." I say let's just take it as a lesson never to go by preconceptions, regardless what they may be.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
Lol, it amuses me how both believers and debunkers are super annoyed by this hoax and nobody is like "Hah, he got us. Nice one." I say let's just take it as a lesson never to go by preconceptions, regardless what they may be.

What preconceptions do you think we were under?
 

Radapox

Member
What preconceptions do you think we were under?

Oh, I don't know, I was primarily speaking for myself. As someone who decidedly gravitates towards the debunking side, I sometimes catch myself thinking I know the solution already, out of "experience" or whatchamacallit, without thinking any further. Which can be dangerous, as that may lead to becoming blind to clues you hadn't even considered. In this particular case, I completely went with the drone explanation (which it probably still is, just with the sound edited out). But I had completely ignored the option of a professional hoax.
 

Ravi

Active Member
Lol, it amuses me how both believers and debunkers are super annoyed by this hoax and nobody is like "Hah, he got us. Nice one." I say let's just take it as a lesson never to go by preconceptions, regardless what they may be.
I am not annoyed one bit, I actually enjoy hoaxes like this. I am a bit weird yes.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I am not annoyed one bit, I actually enjoy hoaxes like this. I am a bit weird yes.
For me it's about the puzzle, hoax or not. A hoax makes a bit harder to figure out which can be fun. I figured we might see a decent drone light hoax at some point, I am a little disappointed they owned up so soon, but I guess with national TV coverage etc they figured it was time.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I am not disagreeing that what we see in the video (object "stopping", rotating while it is stopped moving and then speeding off again) might be possible with an RC plane (well I have not seen anything like that in the videos you supply either). But the idea of a quadcopter with a light bar underneath sounds to me more probable. They just removed the prop noise.
What I want you to be aware of is that you might be misinterpreting the motions this aircraft was actually making.

...object "stopping", rotating while it is stopped moving and then speeding off again...
Did it really do that, or are you misperceiving 3D motions as 2D motions?

Everything you just said has been said thousands of times about common manned aircraft. Then used as proof that, "It couldn't have been an airplane because airplanes can't do that!"
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
What I want you to be aware of is that you might be misinterpreting the motions this aircraft was actually making.


Did it really do that, or are you misperceiving 3D motions as 2D motions?

Everything you just said has been said thousands of times about common manned aircraft. Then used as proof that, "It couldn't have been an airplane because airplanes can't do that!"
We might be misinterpreting that but I'd love to see the actual flight path of an RC aircraft that recreates the end of the 1st video.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I bet that's more misdirection that doesn't look like what we see in the videos.
 

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Mendel

Senior Member.
Drones have multiple, smaller, faster rotating props. This model has a single, larger, slower rotating prop (driven by an electric motor). A faster prop is loud because the tips are producing sonic booms.
Smaller prop = slower tips. Half the size & twice as fast = equal tip speed.
Hoaxers simply disrupt scientific progress.
Not if they own up to it days later.
Human life doesn't exist solely to further science.
And science would do well to reflect on uncertainties in its data, so maybe science even profits from the occasional hoax?
But I can see how UFOlogy's credulity in the face of this hoax disrupts UFOlogy's reputation.

I'm leaning towards some kind of organized hoax
Mick West 1 : UFOlogy 0
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I bet that's more misdirection that doesn't look like what we see in the videos.

Are you sure that couldn't look like the thing we saw?

Just a notion: A bat-winged kite with dim blue LED light strips along leading edge of both wings. One or more brighter, white, LED light strip(s) on the surface of the wing(s). We aren't just seeing the light strips. The fabric (or plastic) skin of the of the kite is luminous from one end to the other like a movie screen; either seen from the top or the bottom. It would look like a bar of light.

I'm just cautioning: Be careful not to get locked into a single idea... based on superficial perceptions and notions. You might get trapped in the confirmation bias.
 
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JMartJr

Senior Member
Maybe... I've also seen kites with reflective tape; put that on a black kite and hit it with a bright light from the ground and all you see is a bright light in whatever shape you make when you apply the tape.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Smaller prop = slower tips. Half the size & twice as fast = equal tip speed.
I'm aware of what you're saying. The larger the diameter, the greater the circumference and therefore the higher the tip speed for any given rpm. At 600 rpm, for example, each blade is completing 10 revolutions per second. If it has to travel farther on a large prop than a small one, it has to travel faster to achieve the number of revolutions.

However, different model airplane props spin at different rpms.

Small very fast props make more noise than large very slowly spinning props. The larger props still aren't spinning fast enough to get prop tip sonic booms. Any more than a large household fan is making blade tip sonic booms.

In the WWII era, large up to date aircraft had constant speed props. But little antiquated trainers had ungeared props. The little trainers were infamous for having noisy props.

Plus prop design and physics of moving air is important. I suspect that it isn't just as simple as "prop tip going faster than speed of sound = sonic booms."
 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Maybe... I've also seen kites with reflective tape; put that on a black kite and hit it with a bright light from the ground and all you see is a bright light in whatever shape you make when you apply the tape.
Yeah, that's another scenario.

Or it might be something we haven't thought of. We could just wait... but what fun is that?

Plus: There is usually a hard core of die-hard UFOlogists who don't accept the hoax explanation after the Hoaxer explains how it was done. No reason to expect that won't be the case here.
 
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JMartJr

Senior Member
It doesn’t have any points of similarity with the thing, and looks unnecessarily large for the result they achieved.
IF... IF, I say... it is indeed a kite that was used, to lift much battery you need a fairly large kite, a kite designed for night flying also has to take into account that there is usually less wind at night, so you need more sail area to lift a given "payload" weight, or a lighter weight materials used to make the kite. Of course that is not an issue if it is towed. My night kites are made of pretty insubstantial stuff, are about 12 feet across the wnigtips, and lift batteries about the size of two AA batteries. (C0uld lift much heavier batteries in decent winds, but you design for the low end of the wind spectrum with night kites.)

My impression still says drone more than kite. Maybe I better go watch the vids again...
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
Yea, but kite fliers get grumpy abut calling something with a motor and no string a "kite," so I didn;t go there.

:eek::mad::rolleyes:
 

Ravi

Active Member
And so OP already in the first post mentioned "drone with light hoax"! We come full circle.
 
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