Florida Contrails and Flight Tracking

J

Joe

Guest
found it on flightaware landed in Cuba and returning to toronto flightradar made it look like it was going in circles didnt show Cuba landing . :) thanks
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Oh I think I see what you mean. It looks like it's flying in a big u-turn south of Florida.

It actually Flew from Toronto, Canada, to land at Vilo Acuna, Cuba, then to land at Antonio Maceo, Cuba, then Back to Toronoto. Look at the FlightAware history.

Flights in Cuban airspace are not tracked, so it looks odd if you look at just the recorded track.

[Edit] See you figured it out already, cool.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Oh I think I see what you mean. It looks like it's flying in a big u-turn south of Florida.

It actually Flew from Toronto, Canada, to land at Vilo Acuna, Cuba, then to land at Antonio Maceo, Cuba, then Back to Toronoto. Look at the FlightAware history.

Flights in Cuban airspace are not tracked, so it looks odd if you look at just the recorded track.

[Edit] See you figured it out already, cool.
Yes I am here to learn . Once i seen that a flight was going to Montego Bay and it just ended I figured I check another source .
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Wasn't there a case on the west coast where duplicate flight #s simultaneously in the air made the apparent position of the craft jump all over the place on the tracking sites?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Wasn't there a case on the west coast where duplicate flight #s simultaneously in the air made the apparent position of the craft jump all over the place on the tracking sites?

I don't think that's the case here, as it's an N-number, which is not duplicated.

More likely just an error in the ADS-B, if you've ever used a GPS system to track a run, you sometimes get glitches like this on a smaller scale.

I think we can safely rule out the plane actually moving around like that.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Joe,
Scott Stevens has an advantage over you, since he is already at 8000 ft, but he has started to identify photographically ordinary commercial planes making what have historically been called "chemtrails". Have you been able to find any commercial planes making persistent contrails which would be considered "chemtrails"?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Joe,
Scott Stevens has an advantage over you, since he is already at 8000 ft, but he has started to identify photographically ordinary commercial planes making what have historically been called "chemtrails". Have you been able to find any commercial planes making persistent contrails which would be considered "chemtrails"?
Wow!! This is the first youtube from Scott I ever watched . . . if he was a weather talking head in a backwater TV market I can see now why people listen to him . . . he is easy to listen to . . . he thinks anything that comes from an aircraft is a Chemtrail and everyone including small commuter airlines are participating . . . what a crock . . . the pilot he talked about in the video probably almost fainted by his lack of rational thinking not because he was outed by the passengers conversation . . . IMO . . . if this guy really thinks this way he must have some real issues . . .
 
J

Joe

Guest
Joe,
Scott Stevens has an advantage over you, since he is already at 8000 ft, but he has started to identify photographically ordinary commercial planes making what have historically been called "chemtrails". Have you been able to find any commercial planes making persistent contrails which would be considered "chemtrails"?
Yes I have and most are commercial flights .
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
I´m allways surpised about Scott Stevens Knowledge in Aircraft-Types.

He can recordnize them by sigth, even the exotic ones. On the California Chemtrail-Conference, he recognized the Piaggio 180 Avanti, a very unlikely Aircraft.


Screenshot from the conference-Video by Scott Stevens


He was wondered that "a propellered Plane" makes contrails. But the P180 has two Turboprop-Engines, they are a kind of combination of both technologies, Propelered and Jet-Engine. So this plane can make "normal" contrails, and there are enogth pictures available from a P180 making contrails.





The very big lap between the contrail and the engines is a clear evidence, that there is really no "spraying" done by this airplane, it must be condensation.

I think, Mr. Stevens seems to has much more knowledge about Aviation than he is showing in his Chemtrail-Videos and Statements.
 
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Belfrey

Senior Member.
He was wondered that "a propellered Plane" makes contrails. But the P180 has two Turboprop-Engines, they are a kind of combination of both technologies, Propelered and Jet-Engine. So this plane can make "normal" contrails, and there are enogth pictures available from a P180 making contrails.

Besides which, ordinary propeller planes can also leave persistent contrails.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, there's nothing to stop a prop plane leaving a contrail - their exhaust is basically the same as a jet engine. They just generally don't fly that high.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
The detail of propulsion is not really important... Older low-bypass jets, newer high-bypass jets, turbine-propeller (turbo-prop), piston engine and propeller, even ramjet (no moving parts).

They all burn hydrocarbon fuel and produce a water-rich exhaust. They will all make contrails in the right conditions. That condition being if the mixture of exhaust gas and the environment reaches water saturation at some point.

The WWII contrail producing planes were all piston engined (and had propellers).
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
The detail of propulsion is not really important... Older low-bypass jets, newer high-bypass jets, turbine-propeller (turbo-prop), piston engine and propeller, even ramjet (no moving parts).

They all burn hydrocarbon fuel and produce a water-rich exhaust. They will all make contrails in the right conditions. That condition being if the mixture of exhaust gas and the environment reaches water saturation at some point.

The WWII contrail producing planes were all piston engined (and had propellers).


That might not be completely accurate . . .

The next most successful interceptors were the Mosquito (623 victories),[21] Spitfire XIV (303),[22] and Mustang (232). All other types combined added 158. Even though it was not fully operational, the jet-powered Gloster Meteor was rushed into service with No. 616 Squadron RAF to fight the V-1s. It had ample speed but its cannon were prone to jamming, and it shot down only 13 V-1s.[23]
Content from External Source
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
OK. Correction...

The photos of WWII contrail producing planes are all of planes with piston engine driving propellers.

Always happy to be corrected. :)
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Example of prime contrail weather. I've attached a visible satellite capture of the southeast US from 23 December 2012 at 0915 EST. There is a low pressure approaching from the west. The upper level winds are vigorous out of the west with calm cool high pressure in place at the surface (9AM observation from Jacksonville Florida is calm winds and a temperature of 39F). As is typical with a fast moving low pressure approaching from the west you get over-running moisture such that the atmosphere moistens from the top down. The extensive contrail field in the attached image is part of the cirrus clouds that are running ahead of the low pressure. Notice how far off shore the contrails extend. Those contrails were created over/near the coast over the course of several hours and have moved that far in 2 hours. The apparent sheet of contrails is primarily created by repeated flights along the east coast corridor with the newest trails being nearest the coast in this image.


vissat_23dec2012.jpg
 

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PCWilliams

Senior Member.
Notice how far off shore the contrails extend. Those contrails were created over/near the coast over the course of several hours and have moved that far in 2 hours.

I'm not sure how close to the coast they were created. Up and down the east coast there are military warning areas. If these areas are active, civilian aircraft must be routed around them (kept along the coast line, inland). If these warning areas are not active, air traffic control can clear aircraft on more direct routes (I.E. Hampton Long Island (HTO) direct Jacksonville, FL (JAX)), placing the aircraft way out over the ocean. Somebody would have to check on the status of the warning areas to check on this possibility.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Unfortunately I cannot embed the loop. The post would be better with the loop. There are some trails formed over the ocean but the majority of the traffic is occurred well to the west of where the trails are in the photo. The extensive trails over the Gainesville area that are oriented from SE-NW were created over the gulf in the MIA-HOU corridor (Hatrickpenry and Harold Saive are probably having fits today). The whole point of the illustration is how the cirrus and contrail cirrus are predictably present in the moistening atmosphere ahead of a storm system.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
The extensive trails over the Gainesville area that are oriented from SE-NW were created over the gulf in the MIA-HOU corridor (Hatrickpenry and Harold Saive are probably having fits today). The whole point of the illustration is how the cirrus and contrail cirrus are predictably present in the moistening atmosphere ahead of a storm system.
I can confirm from the ground, loads of contrails and natural cirrus over Gainesville today (after almost perfectly clear skies yesterday). Storms possible from tomorrow through Wednesday. Some chemtrails believers have noticed that "spray days" tend to precede rainy weather, but unfortunately they tend to get the causality confused, and think that the trails are causing the weather.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Example of prime contrail weather. I've attached a visible satellite capture of the southeast US from 23 December 2012 at 0915 EST. There is a low pressure approaching from the west. The upper level winds are vigorous out of the west with calm cool high pressure in place at the surface (9AM observation from Jacksonville Florida is calm winds and a temperature of 39F). As is typical with a fast moving low pressure approaching from the west you get over-running moisture such that the atmosphere moistens from the top down. The extensive contrail field in the attached image is part of the cirrus clouds that are running ahead of the low pressure. Notice how far off shore the contrails extend. Those contrails were created over/near the coast over the course of several hours and have moved that far in 2 hours. The apparent sheet of contrails is primarily created by repeated flights along the east coast corridor with the newest trails being nearest the coast in this image.


vissat_23dec2012.jpg
you got that right
DSCF5005.JPG
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
In some areas probably most of the cloud cover is from contrails, but if you zoom out to the bigger picture, that's quite a small amount of the total cloud cover nationwide. It varies though. Certainly has an effect.
 
J

Joe

Guest
In some areas probably most of the cloud cover is from contrails, but if you zoom out to the bigger picture, that's quite a small amount of the total cloud cover nationwide. It varies though. Certainly has an effect.
If i look south its a complete white out , north is blue and white some trails and sunny so guess im right on the edge . Compared to yesterday that had complete blue skies . Well at least i had a clear Birthday :) a lot of trails off Georgia and the Carolina s
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
We see this kind of weather rather often in Western Germany; humid warm fronts coming in from the Atlantic and meeting the edge of high pressure areas generally sitting more to the East, on the continental landmass.

Maybe people here are used to it more than elsewhere
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
This type of weather is very common in the eastern US, especially fall, winter, and spring when fronts move though once every 5 days or so. In active patterns like the present in winter we get low pressures every 2-3 days with maybe one day of sun. Here in southeast VA it will rain today, clear off tomorrow, weak high pressure will wedge in for Friday. Subsidence behind the departing low and downsloping off the Appalachians will mean clear skies for Thurs with maybe come diurnal puffy cumulus. Cirrus and contrails will prevail again Friday ahead of the yet another low that will cross the area on Saturday. The sky here in Virginia yesterday looked the same as in treasurecoastskywatch's Christmas post. There was a fairly shallow high pressure wedged down the east coast with the present storm system approaching. Ripping jet stream winds were advecting sheets of cirrus over top of the surface high pressure so the entire coast from Maryland to Florida has cirrus and contrails yesterday. That is the norm and not the exception in winter around here.
 
J

Joe

Guest
This type of weather is very common in the eastern US, especially fall, winter, and spring when fronts move though once every 5 days or so. In active patterns like the present in winter we get low pressures every 2-3 days with maybe one day of sun. Here in southeast VA it will rain today, clear off tomorrow, weak high pressure will wedge in for Friday. Subsidence behind the departing low and downsloping off the Appalachians will mean clear skies for Thurs with maybe come diurnal puffy cumulus. Cirrus and contrails will prevail again Friday ahead of the yet another low that will cross the area on Saturday. The sky here in Virginia yesterday looked the same as in treasurecoastskywatch's Christmas post. There was a fairly shallow high pressure wedged down the east coast with the present storm system approaching. Ripping jet stream winds were advecting sheets of cirrus over top of the surface high pressure so the entire coast from Maryland to Florida has cirrus and contrails yesterday. That is the norm and not the exception in winter around here.
There was no Cirrus clouds Just Contrails that spread out . the sky started exactly as the top picture with blue skies and contrails as they continued all day leaving a total whiteout . I lived in Long Island for years and we did see many days of overcast conditions . Ive been in Florida for 20 years and only the past two years has it looked like this .
 
J

Joe

Guest
We see this kind of weather rather often in Western Germany; humid warm fronts coming in from the Atlantic and meeting the edge of high pressure areas generally sitting more to the East, on the continental landmass.

Maybe people here are used to it more than elsewhere
Maybe Germany but not sunny S Florida . I would say most other places you wouldnt notice it . But drier and tropical areas you would .
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
There was no Cirrus clouds Just Contrails that spread out . the sky started exactly as the top picture with blue skies and contrails as they continued all day leaving a total whiteout . I lived in Long Island for years and we did see many days of overcast conditions . Ive been in Florida for 20 years and only the past two years has it looked like this .
I disagree on all counts. I've lived in Florida for about 9 years now. Although overcast conditions are not as common here as in some other places I've lived, they do happen and have happened before the past couple of years (I always take notice, because it reminds me of the weather back "home" - also in New York State). I noticed up here in Gainesville that there was a lot of natural cirrus cover first thing in the morning yesterday, and gradually persistent contrails adding to it as the day wore on.

Edit: According to weatherspark.com, we are right about in the time of year when your part of the state gets these conditions most often:

 
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J

Joe

Guest
I disagree on all counts. I've lived in Florida for about 9 years now. Although overcast conditions are not as common here as in some other places I've lived, they do happen and have happened before the past couple of years (I always take notice, because it reminds me of the weather back "home" - also in New York State). I noticed up here in Gainesville that there was a lot of natural cirrus cover first thing in the morning yesterday, and gradually persistent contrails adding to it as the day wore on.

Edit: According to weatherspark.com, we are right about in the time of year when your part of the state gets these conditions most often:

Well I guess Im Blind and didnt see the contrails spread causing the overcast conditions ? I believe Iv heard the BBC calls them Contrail Cirrus Clouds ? Today No Contrails at all ? Plenty of cumulus clouds and even rain but not 1 trail ?
 
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J

Joe

Guest
Whats funny is when the grid off the coast of Ca.last year which look like contrails I was told they were ship tracks ? Now trails are everywhere ? grid-off-ca-coast-7-20-2011.jpg
 
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