Flight MH370 Speculation

[Stevan Gvozdenovic]

Those people would probably be considered to be "completely mental" which is my point. Are there any particular examples that you think are relevant here?

If we can't even determine from the pilots actions in what name, ideology, friendship or whatever he was acting then it seems fair to conclude that his actions were not very well chosen with regards to furthering his cause.

If he is motivated by Anwar Ibrahim's situation why not wait and see how the appeal goes?

As part of his overturned acquittal on 4 March 2014, Anwar has been sentenced to five years in jail, but remains free on bail while he appeals the verdict

Content from External Source

I don't see how hijacking a plane in Anwar's name would help him, I mean he's still apparently free and able to speak in public:
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...ing-johor-sultan-over-housing-bill-anwar-says


its not though is it? Its a pointless meandering diversion, a cut in communications, an inexplicable accidental exhaustion of fuel and a ditching at sea hundreds of miles from the intended destination.

I agree with you on the parachute though.

good to know that, however wouldn't it even stronger support that scenario? Because whole world knowing about that case would mean much bigger chances that appeal will work.

It might be pointless for us but maybe not for him, bringing the world attention to help the friend is not that far-fetched in my book(especially it being the only way you could help him), at least compared to all other scenarios I have heard of.

 

[jonnyH]

good to know that, however wouldn't it even stronger support that scenario? Because whole world knowing about that case would mean much bigger chances that appeal will work.

No, its not as if Anwar hasn't been here before. He has faced similar or the same charges twice before and won appeals on both occasions and never served time for sodomy charges, only corruption. If history is anything to go by he will get through this one fine. The urgency to do something big is just not there.

Looks like the recent charges were timed to exclude him from a regional election he was roundly tipped to win, he also won the popular vote at the 2013 general election but not enough to gain an electoral majority so he has massive support in the country. Its this support that should be tapped to change the political realities in Malaysia, being associated with a hijacking is unlikely to be good PR.

It might be pointless for us but maybe not for him, bringing the world attention to help the friend is not that far-fetched in my book

I meant pointless in the sense that there was no need to take action to avoid radar. He could have gone straight there safer and quicker and gained more than enough publicity as demonstrated by the Ethiopian Airlines example. That said, is it even necessary when Anwar is capable of communicating with the media on his own behalf.

at least compared to all other scenarios I have heard of

What scenarios?

 

[Stevan Gvozdenovic]

hijack for intentional ditching, suicide including 7 hours flight, malfunction that makes the plane go rogue all on itself, aliens etc.

D.B. Cooper would be also plausible if not for 777 conception, as weedwhacker has explained

 

[zebra100]

Finally, here is the Boeing official answer:

"As for the doors, they cannot be opened once an airplane is airborne and pressurized.

To facilitate breathing and passenger comfort, airplanes are pressurized to the equivalent atmosphere of 8,000 feet. Since airplanes typically cruise above 30,000 feet, the air pressure inside the plane is much greater than the pressure outside -- and that pressure differential makes it impossible to open the door, even if somebody wanted to do such a thing.

If an emergency landing is necessary, as the airplane descends, the pilots slowly depressurize the airplane, so the doors can open immediately after the airplane touches down. Emergency exits are designed to open once an airplane has landed."

So it can not open where it is pressurized--that's no doubt. But it seems a little vague when mentioned depressurized - obviously for security reason. Is there an electronical or mechanical lock to unlock when touch down? I doubt not, because any accident or malfunction would put all crew and passengers in total jeopardy. It meant to be manual and meant to open when depressurized.

By the way, it is called emergency doors/exits.

 

[Jason]

Finally, here is the Boeing official answer:

"As for the doors, they cannot be opened once an airplane is airborne and pressurized.

To facilitate breathing and passenger comfort, airplanes are pressurized to the equivalent atmosphere of 8,000 feet. Since airplanes typically cruise above 30,000 feet, the air pressure inside the plane is much greater than the pressure outside -- and that pressure differential makes it impossible to open the door, even if somebody wanted to do such a thing.

If an emergency landing is necessary, as the airplane descends, the pilots slowly depressurize the airplane, so the doors can open immediately after the airplane touches down. Emergency exits are designed to open once an airplane has landed."

So it can not open where it is pressurized--that's no doubt. But it seems a little vague when mentioned depressurized - obviously for security reason. Is there an electronical or mechanical lock to unlock when touch down? I doubt not, because any accident or malfunction would put all crew and passengers in total jeopardy. It meant to be manual and meant to open when depressurized.

By the way, it is called emergency doors/exits.

OT: What if someone fired a hand gun at the window or the aluminum fuselage, would that penetrate the skin or window causing immediate depressurization. Would a hole open up in the plane pulling everything out of it that wasn't buckled in.

 

[Mick West]

OT: What if someone fired a hand gun at the window or the aluminum fuselage, would that penetrate the skin or window causing immediate depressurization. Would a hole open up in the plane pulling everything out of it that wasn't buckled in.

Kind of:
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/explosive-decompression-minimyth.htm

 

[Jason]

Kind of:
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/explosive-decompression-minimyth.htm

So hypothetically, if someone wanted to jump ship and had the means of getting a small explosive (plastics) on board, it would be the best way to exit the plane via parachute. You could go down stairs or in the rear of the plane as a captain. Set it, get back to the cockpit and detonate it killing all electronic communications and incapacitating the passengers as well. Could explain why some witnesses saw a plane on fire. If the plane ever gets found they would determine it was terrorism, and the pilot could "possibly" survive.

I was just sticking to the pilot jumping ship speculation. Trying to figure out a way it could be done. Obviously, its an extreme long shot, but possible

 

[Mick West]

So hypothetically, if someone wanted to jump ship and had the means of getting a small explosive (plastics) on board, it would be the best way to exit the plane via parachute. You could go down stairs or in the rear of the plane as a captain. Set it, get back to the cockpit and detonate it killing all electronic communications and incapacitating the passengers as well. Could explain why some witnesses saw a plane on fire. If the plane ever gets found they would determine it was terrorism, and the pilot could "possibly" survive.

I was just sticking to the pilot jumping ship speculation. Trying to figure out a way it could be done. Obviously, its an extreme long shot, but possible

But so fraught with risk that nobody would try such a thing. You'd be safe doing a water landing, and then scuttling.

Meh, I'll wait and see.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Finally, here is the Boeing official answer:

Look, here is a basic fact that you likely won't get from a Boeing (or Airbus) corporate blurb --- Yes, when the cabin is pressurized (beyond a certain value) the doors simply cannot be opened against the pressure differential.

Here is a techhie-geeky fact: Most Boeing's Auto Pressurization Controllers will, on the ground, bring the cabin to outside PSID (Pounds per Square Inch Differential) to 0.125 PSID. At that (one-eighth atmosphere) pressure differential, it is considered "low" enough to allow the doors to be opened, in the event of an emergency or other contingency on the ground.

The reason for this very, very slight positive pressurization amount on the ground is to prevent "pressure bumps", i.e., those annoying ear-popping moments as much as possible. It also has a secondary advantage of helping to "seat" all of the plug-type doors more firmly in their openings, and helps provide further structural integrity to the fuselage.

 

[WeedWhacker]

You'd be safe doing a water landing, and then scuttling.

At night??? In the dark????

Sorry, but a ditching situation is hardly "safe", even in the best of circumstances. Still since we're speculating....the "bad guy" (pilot) who allegedly did this would need access to a raft, after the ditching was complete. THAT would mean leaving the Flight Deck, and then grabbing one of the Slide-Rafts from the Main Doors, after they were deployed (IF they were deployed).

Of course, as one scenario has it, the "bad pilot" could have killed everyone aft of the Flight Deck door already (from O2 deprivation)....but, well. That's pretty heinous.

But OK....so, a ditch, then now this criminally insane murderer is alone on a raft?

Yeah....I am writing the script even as I type it.....

 

[Mick West]

At night??? In the dark????

Sorry, but a ditching situation is hardly "safe", even in the best of circumstances. Still since we're speculating....the "bad guy" (pilot) who allegedly did this would need access to a raft, after the ditching was complete. THAT would mean leaving the Flight Deck, and then grabbing one of the Slide-Rafts from the Main Doors, after they were deployed (IF they were deployed).

Of course, as one scenario has it, the "bad pilot" could have killed everyone aft of the Flight Deck door already (from O2 deprivation)....but, well. That's pretty heinous.

But OK....so, a ditch, then now this criminally insane murderer is alone on a raft?

Yeah....I am writing the script even as I type it.....

I missed an "r" off the end of that "safe".

I meant safer than blowing the tail off the plane with explosives, then running back and jumping out of the hole with a parachute.

I think the simpler explanation (assuming suicide) is that he just flew around until he ran out of fuel, then crashed somewhere.

 

[WeedWhacker]

I missed an "r" off the end of that "safe".

I meant safer than blowing the tail off the plane with explosives, then running back and jumping out of the hole with a parachute.

I think the simpler explanation (assuming suicide) is that he just flew around until he ran out of fuel, then crashed somewhere.

Chuckle.

Well, again since it's just speculation....(and I admit, this thread has gone far afield!)...."explosives" blowing up the tail? I already see too many problems with that as a 'scenario', it simply does not merit consideration nor discussion....sorry.

Now....just to be a "bad boy", when I look at all of the "Doors" info on the Boeing 777, I see the two hatches (I previously mentioned them) that are used by Maintenance to access the E&E bays. These are on the belly, just aft of the Nose Gear. Generally (and I am using my knowledge of similar hatches on the DC-10, since I have NO prior experience ON the B777) these hatches can only be opened from OUTSIDE....meaning, there are no internal door mechanisms/handles.

EDIT: I have to add, here, that the type of training that airline cremembers receive cannot always be accessed from online sources, and thus linked for reference. Much of it is proprietary, or considered to be "sensitive".

 

[Stevan Gvozdenovic]

I missed an "r" off the end of that "safe".

I meant safer than blowing the tail off the plane with explosives, then running back and jumping out of the hole with a parachute.

I think the simpler explanation (assuming suicide) is that he just flew around until he ran out of fuel, then crashed somewhere.

if the intention was to ditch as far away as possible from mainland then why not head SW?! also judging by inmarsat pings the flight had kind of direction, maybe not totally straight-forward but still a direction

anyone knows if they have even took into account low-level flight across I. Ocean which would be carried at lower speed and impact fuel consumption even more(if I got that right Inmarsat doesn't have any data about altitude)? That way the plane could be up to 500 mi north from where they were searching...

 

[Stevan Gvozdenovic]

are Telegraph and NineMSN reliable sources?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/22/16/01/mh370-captain-identified-prime-suspect

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-southern-Indian-Ocean-on-home-simulator.html

if this is true then it would somewhat confirm my theory albeit not trying to land in Perth but much norther, still on australian territory though

P.S.

christmas island is almost on the arc...

http://i.imgur.com/nXL4jDa.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iTdZIv-9deo/Tsr-gfrhUVI/AAAAAAAABw4/UeosG3ZvUB8/s1600/Cocos Islands Indian Ocean.jpg

and another indicator (from wikipedia)

"The occasional charters from overseas airlines, such as Malaysia Airlines and SilkAir occur from time to time."

it should be checked whether he was flying there before...

 

[Jason]

But OK....so, a ditch, then now this criminally insane murderer is alone on a raft?

Unless of course he ditched while over land and preset the autopilot coordinates. Just saying he could've ditched when he made his way back over Malaysia and radar also determined there was a decrease in altitude at one point while flying over Malaysia. It's said he "could've" done this to avoid radar, but it's also feasable (while unlikely) that he could've made his departure at this time. I don't know how autopilot works on these planes and if you can put several way points in at a time or if you have to wait until after arriving at the next way point to put in the next. If you can preload coordinates then it's possible he could've ditched the plane over land. Surviving this makes sense too if you've worked something out with your wife or soon to be exwife so that you can split the insurance money down the road.

The only reason why this possibility makes the slightest bit of sense and why certain sites are promoting this is because if you think about it, if he wanted to die via suicide, hiding the plane is irrelevant. But if you want to make sure life insurance gets paid out, then you need to hide the evidence. Why did he go through all of this manuevering to hide the plane if it wasn't so... Could be multiple reasons behind him being so precautious or it could be a total coincidence. But when you look at the evidence and motives from that perspective it seems somewhat possible..

 

[WeedWhacker]

Unless of course he ditched while over land....

Sorry, "ditch" is a term specific to a water landing (of an airplane not designed for landing on water).

 

[vooke]

Question
Why can't they name the ISLAND in question in the articles?
If he plotted it on the simulator, it must be having an existing strip at the very least

 

[WeedWhacker]

If he plotted it on the simulator...

vooke, this is really irrelevant. What I mean is, his home "simulator" is irrelevant.

The airplane's own FMC (edit: 'FMC' means "Flight Management Computer".....also, I found THIS. Yes, it's intended for professional aviators, but if you slog through it, might glean some info.....) database is sufficient, along with any printed material (and/or) iPad or any other electronic database (becoming more commonplace, to reduce the heavy paper charts) airport data that ANY pilot could have at his/her disposal. That is enough for an experienced pilot. ALSO, most airlines keep a dedicated bag of MORE charts and airport data (paper backups) as part of the airplane, on the Flight Deck.

Before the "electronic flight bag" ('EFB') became commonplace (thanks to iPads and such), we carried a load of paper...just the usual destinations and alternates..but then, the REST of the World was in the cockpit, just in case it was ever needed.

This home "simulator" angle is really a red herring. Sounds good and "intriguing" I suppose to non-pilots though.....

 

[vooke]

vooke, this is really irrelevant. What I mean is, his home "simulator" is irrelevant.

The airplane's own FMC database is sufficient, along with any printed material (and/or) iPad or any other electronic database (becoming more commonplace, to reduce the heavy paper charts) airport data that ANY pilot could have at his/her disposal. That is enough for an experienced pilot. ALSO, most airlines keep a dedicated bag of MORE charts and airport data (paper backups) as part of the airplane, on the Flight Deck.

Before the "electronic flight bag" ('EFB') became commonplace (thanks to iPads and such), we carried a load of paper...just the usual destinations and alternates..but then, the REST of the World was in the cockpit, just in case it was ever needed.

This home "simulator" angle is really a red herring. Sounds good and "intriguing" I suppose to non-pilots though.....

@WeedWhacker,
Thank you for your explanation
What I really meant was, if you are going to simulate flights to some strip somewhere, are not going to need an existing strip or can you design strips and practice landing on them?

 

[WeedWhacker]

What I really meant was, if you are going to simulate flights to some strip somewhere, are not going to need an existing strip or can you design strips and practice landing on them?

Well....again, this is completely unnecessary. The "practice" of landing, I mean. We know how to land already....there is little need to "practice" it.

Hard to explain....but, for every pilot, there are the "basics"....and this is what ALL learn first. Visually judging, and controlling the airplane properly. You don't even need cockpit instruments of any kind (when down to BARE basics). However, of course in a modern sophisticated jet, AIRSPEED is a primary need for reference. But, again if done visually, that's all you really need.

NIGHT of course presents other complications, hence runway lighting schemes that are standardized around the world. For a jet like the B-777 of course, a runway must be constructed to have sufficient load-bearing strength capacity. That is always an additional consideration.

 

[vooke]

@WeedWhacker,
Are you saying that you don't need a flight simulator to 'practice landing'? It is an honest question, I know zilch

 

[WeedWhacker]

@WeedWhacker,
Are you saying that you don't need a flight simulator to 'practice landing'? It is an honest question, I know zilch

What I'm saying is for a pilot who is already trained and at a level of being hired as an airline pilot, landings are learned WAY early, and are just commonplace.

Say I try an analogy? Parallel parking a car. At first, you learn it. Then you practice it...and eventually you get quite adept at it. Now, think if EVERY time you drove your car, each place you parked required you to parallel park. That is what it's like to fly....you land after EVERY flight.

 

[vooke]

What I'm saying is for a pilot who is already trained and at a level of being hired as an airline pilot, landings are learned WAY early, and are just commonplace.

Say I try an analogy? Parallel parking a car. At first, you learn it. Then you practice it...and eventually you get quite adept at it. Now, think if EVERY time you drove your car, each place you parked required you to parallel park. That is what it's like to fly....you land after EVERY flight.

SO why in your opinion are the authorities trying to push the flight simulation angle if it is that irrelevant? In fact it was a dominant theme earlier on

 

[WeedWhacker]

SO why in your opinion are the authorities trying to push the flight simulation angle if it is that irrelevant? In fact it was a dominant theme earlier on

That, I cannot answer!! I think it's been postulated in this (or other speculation threads) that there are some "political" shenanigans involved.

Don't want to stub any toes, or offend anyone but...well...consider the governments in the region, that are involved. Especially (in some cases) religious influences ON those governments. And the type of machinations that can result.

(Perhaps I shouldn't mention the religious angle, as I'm in the USA which is on the edge of a battle against religious extremism all the time!!!)

 

[vooke]

That, I cannot answer!! I think it's been postulated in this (or other speculation threads) that there are some "political" shenanigans involved.

Don't want to stub any toes, or offend anyone but...well...consider the governments in the region, that are involved. Especially (in some cases) religious influences ON those governments. And the type of machinations that can result.

(Perhaps I shouldn't mention the religious angle, as I'm in the USA which is on the edge of a battle against religious extremism all the time!!!)

But the flight simulation angle is being pursued by a mishmash of international team of investigators which is far less likely to be affected by religion. Recall it was the FBI who tried to recover deleted simulator data. If it is so irrelevant, I wonder why all this interest

 

[WeedWhacker]

But the flight simulation angle is being pursued by a mishmash of international team of investigators which is far less likely to be affected by religion. Recall it was the FBI who tried to recover deleted simulator data. If it is so irrelevant, I wonder why all this interest

I think that this angle of the Captain's home simulator set-up (which was really very, very basic...more like a video game type of thing) was played up in the press, and got a bit of coverage.

You have to realize that there are a LOT of non-professional pilots, even NON-pilots who (nowadays) spend tons of money on very sophisticated (for home use) simulation programs, even going so far as to build a (non-motion) simulator. It's a hobby, in a way. A "passion" I suppose.

(This MH370 Captain, the one being focused on, might have used his home set-up merely to keep his skills at flying on instruments sharp. A MAJOR aspect of all professional airline pilots' training involves flying using instruments only...and IGNORING the vestibular...or "inner ear"...cues that we normally use for balance...on the ground. Practicing these skills might have been his goal, since all airline pilots are subjected to bi-annual sessions in a simulator....a MORE advanced simulator...as a "test". It is called "re-current training" by most U.S. airlines).

I will link a video (or two) for education:
(This is an Air Traffic Controller, and aviation enthusiast and HIS hobby.....):


(EDIT): Also, noting above the B-737 section that Jim has in his garage? The old paint scheme is still visible....this was a Continental jet...and I probably flew it!!!!

Here's another guy's set-up (MORE sophisticated, as I understand, than the MH370 Captain's home set-up):


If you search online, you will find MANY sites that sell these things. I could, for instance, easily drop $30,000 to $50,000 and just get the basics, to re-create a bit of my "past".

 

[vooke]

@WeedWhacker and am sorry to pester you, am concerned by the investigators' attention on a mere gaming like contraption to the extent of recovering deleted files.
Do you believe that is a dead end they are pursuing?

For a layman like me, that inordinate attention suggests the simulator may hold clues to this mystery or at least the investigators believe so

 

[WeedWhacker]

Do you believe that is a dead end they are pursuing?

Yes, I do. It's really a non-starter, and I believe that it's a case of something that the media got hold of, and blew out of proportion.

 

[WeedWhacker]

@WeedWhacker and am sorry to pester you, am concerned by the investigators' attention on a mere gaming like contraption to the extent of recovering deleted files.
Do you believe that is a dead end they are pursuing?

For a layman like me, that inordinate attention suggests the simulator may hold clues to this mystery or at least the investigators believe so

I want to tell you also that THIS link (that I posted previously):
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/...es/bill-bulfers-fmc-users-guide-b747-767-777/

Went to this guy, Bill Bulfer...who has made a good living on "helping" many an airline pilot, in training, (over the last few decades) who thought that they needed a bit of help to 'supplement' the actual airline curriculum training.

I've seen his stuff....(and I think it's overpriced)....sorry that I linked it, but it must help SOME pilots, since he seems to still be in business...

 

[Pete Tar]

SO why in your opinion are the authorities trying to push the flight simulation angle if it is that irrelevant?

Where are they pushing that? That was an angle at least a month ago, and has been ruled as immaterial once they investigated properly, so who's pushing it now?

inordinate attention

Same question again, what inordinate attention?

 

[TWCobra]

Question
Why can't they name the ISLAND in question in the articles?
If he plotted it on the simulator, it must be having an existing strip at the very least

I can't find one in the Southern Indian Ocean. If you discount Cocos Is, Christmas Island and Diego Garcia, the nearest one is near Madagascar.

One of the reasons my airline does not operate twin engine aircraft from Perth to South Africa is precisely due to the lack of such runways

 

[vooke]

Where are they pushing that? That was an angle at least a month ago, and has been ruled as immaterial once they investigated properly, so who's pushing it now?


Same question again, what inordinate attention?

Pete,
WHy should news of a deleted flight path excite anybody today? I thought they gave up on the simulator months ago. In any case, why were they going after in in the first place?

 

[Pete Tar]

I'm sorry but i still don't know what you're talking about. WHO is getting excited about it? You said the authorities are pushing it again, can you post their quotes on the matter?

As for going after it in the first place, it was just a lead they had to cover for thoroughness, but nothing came of it.

 

[vooke]

There was a link up here with the recovery of a deleted Southern Indian Ocean flight plan. Last time I checked the simulator hard drives were with FBI for examination. So if this article is credible, the investigating team must have released that aspect to the public. But like @WeedWhacker says, the simulator is and has always been unhelpful. Why then is the data recovery newsworthy?

 

[Pete Tar]

Okay I'm following now.
However authorities definitely aren't 'pushing' that, those were details that were leaked, so we can't know the context or whether they even think it's really significant.
And I guess it's 'newsworthy' because it seems like new information, even though it's probably not. Any detail that sounds new would be newsworthy no matter how irrelevant if they can frame it in the right way.

 

[WeedWhacker]

There was a link up here with the recovery of a deleted Southern Indian Ocean flight plan.

Again, irrelevant. (Sorry). A "Flight Plan" is a device to advise ATC (Or, Air Traffic Control).

 

[Stevan Gvozdenovic]

What I'm saying is for a pilot who is already trained and at a level of being hired as an airline pilot, landings are learned WAY early, and are just commonplace.

Say I try an analogy? Parallel parking a car. At first, you learn it. Then you practice it...and eventually you get quite adept at it. Now, think if EVERY time you drove your car, each place you parked required you to parallel park. That is what it's like to fly....you land after EVERY flight.

yupp but... (talking about Christmas Island) "The airport's location at the top of a hill, with a 2% mid-runway gradient, makes it a challenging landing for pilots."

now I don't say an experienced Captain would have problems landing there even if it was his first time, but a little bit more practice would certainly do no harm

analogy? You parallel park a car every day on a flat surface, but suddenly you have to park it on a steep one...the car won't behave the same

 

[WeedWhacker]

yupp but... (talking about Christmas Island) "The airport's location at the top of a hill, with a 2% mid-runway gradient, makes it a challenging landing for pilots."

A 2% grade in a runway surface is NOT a problem for an experienced pilot.

Sorry.

 

[Stevan Gvozdenovic]

well I have never said that anyway still if you plan to land on a remote island you are not familiar with, it's good to see how it would look in a flight sim just to have better coordination in visual approach etc.

 

[WeedWhacker]

well I have never said that anyway still if you plan to land on a remote island you are not familiar with, it's good to see how it would look in a flight sim just to have better coordination in visual approach etc.

Again, not really. Sure there are what are called "Special Airports" in the world (Tegucigalpa, Honduras springs to mind....the former Hong Kong Airport....even Reno, Nevada and Birmingham, Alabama) but these all have a "Special" moniker attached because of various reasons. Usually due to extreme mountainous terrain, or some other unique feature (such as a particularly difficult Instrument Approach Procedure).

Still, ALL of these "special" airports can be "briefed" to pilots easily with visual aids, as part of their paper (or electronic) Charts.

There are a few other airports that require "special" simulator training (Bogata Colombia, Quito Ecuador are two that I have personally been trained for) that is done in a FULL-motion simulator, in order to receive qualification status...but again, this is just due to A) Their altitude above sea level and B) Certain procedures, especially engine-inoperative procedures (in emergencies) that must be taken into account, because of the high altitude and mountainous terrain in the vicinity.

These situations are only because of the "odd" characteristics and generally geared to contingency situations (emergencies) that might arise in normal airline operations.