Explosive Devices sent to Clintons, Brennan (at CNN), Soros

Mick West said:
Are there many instances of "false flag" bombings in recent US history?
Click to expand...

Tom Sauer is a former bomb disposal officer. He says -


Source: https://twitter.com/thomasbsauer/status/1055145784994340869

External Quote:
"Hoax Devices" are FAR more common than real ones.
By the way, do you remember that time a "white supremacist, Trump supporter" called in bomb threats to 150 Jewish Community Centers and then it turned out to be a left-wing activist who used to work for The Intercept?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/juan-thompson-pleads-guilty-ex-journalist-jcc-bomb-threats/
External Quote:
A former journalist pleaded guilty on Tuesday to (...) making fake bomb threats, admitting he threatened Jewish organizations to disrupt his ex-girlfriend's life and cause her "great distress." (...) From January to March, more than 150 bomb threats were reported against Jewish community centers and day schools in 37 states and two Canadian provinces, according to the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish group that battles anti-Semitism.
Remember the time a "racist white Trump supporter" burned down a black church and then it was proven to be false?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/mississippi-church-fire.html
External Quote:
The authorities charged a man on Wednesday with setting fire last month to a predominantly African-American church in Greenville, Miss., where "Vote Trump" was found spray-painted on the side of the building. (...) Mr. McClinton, who is black, was a member of the church (...)"
There have been many more similar cases in the past 1-2 years.
 
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Mechanik said:
The basic definition of False Flag is a military operation and that's the way I look at it, too.
Click to expand...

But is that what you think people are referring to in this case? Again this is coming down to semantics. I think it's pretty clear here that when people are talking about a false flag, they are meaning someone radically left-leaning orchestrating an act of terror that is supposed to be perceived as coming from someone radically right-leaning. I would also argue that swatting is a form of false flag. No literal flags have to be involved, just a perceived identity that is different to the actual identity.

I agree with NoParty in that this is an extremely heated time in politics right now and I think it would be silly to say that someone left leaning is less likely to perform an act of terror than someone who is right leaning based purely on the fact.

I entirely disagree that it's far more unlikely to be a false flag than just some right-wing nut job doing this. The only hard part would be making the devices, the false flag part is as easy as writing some addresses down.

Please don't take this as me saying IT'S A FALSE FLAG! But I think people are too easily dismissing the motive based on the idea of supposed false flags like Sandy Hook supposedly involving crisis actors, government agencies, etc. It just seems strange that people are jumping to ANY conclusions to me.
 
deirdre said:
yea but doesn't a 'false flag' have to be 'the government did it' or at least a large organization? Not just Joe Schmoe sent fake ricin to Susan Collins to implicate his liberal neighbor whose dog keeps pooping on his lawn.
Click to expand...
Short answer: No. I recall that the etymology of the term is more with pirates,
and their particular brand of deception.

Yes, the YouTube conspiracy crowd uses it for "government gun grabbing" ad nauseum,
but it just means trying to blame someone else.

Heck, lots of historians think our Boston Tea Party guys dressed as Native Americans hoping the Mohawks
would get blamed, in America's first major false flag. (Mohawks are still salty about it today)...
 
Mukna said:
I think it would be silly to say that someone left leaning is less likely to perform an act of terror than someone who is right leaning based purely on the fact.
Click to expand...
that's not the issue, the left has performed acts of terror, like the congressional baseball game shooting.

The issue is if a leftist would risk life in prison for... basically no reward.
 
I have noticed that the false-flag possibility is being offered by some of the mainstream right. For example, Republican congressman Matt Gaetz says "I don't know if we can rule out that this is some kind of false flag". (see 11m16s)

Personally, I don't read too much into this. Politicians (around the world) often grab at conspiracy theories as a convenient political tool.
 
Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

CNN: Debunking the despicable 'false flag' theory on the mail bombs
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

External Quote:

Here's what would have had to happen for the events of Wednesday to be a false flag:
1. Someone or someones who wanted to help Democrats -- and the media, I guess, somehow? -- would send a series of pipe bombs to prominent Democrats around the country.
2. Then Democrats or the media or, again, someone, would have to have coordinated with the state and local police -- not to mention federal authorities -- so that law enforcement said that these were functional bombs (even though, again, according to this theory, they weren't).
Which, um, is not what happened. As any reasonable person -- regardless of your political affiliation -- can recognize that that sort of broad conspiracy not only stretches the bounds of the possible but snaps them in two.

The problem, of course, is that Limbaugh -- and people like fellow talk radio host Michael Savage and Fox Business Network host Lou Dobbs -- are playing to an audience that already believes some mysterious "they" are working to pursue a secret liberal/socialist agenda that aims to countermand the will of the broader public.
That way of thinking isn't new. It's the same ridiculousness that led some to label the murders of 20 6-and-7-year-olds at Sandy Hook Elementary School a "false flag" operation aimed at creating a more sympathetic national environment in which to pass new restrictions on gun owners. And to insist that the man who came to Washington and fired an assault rifle at a local pizzeria where he believed there to be a pedophilia ring being run by Hillary Clinton was all just a grand bit of theater to throw people off the scent that there really IS a pedophilia ring at that spot
At this point we just have to wait and see what the investigators find (unless they too are also part of some grand conspiracy!)
 
as time goes by, i lean more towards this being a hoax from the left. the focus of the sender seemed to be too much on the appearance rather than functionality. i believe a nut job from the right would have wanted to actually cause harm to the left, and they would have focused on functionality over appearance.
 
Kavador said:
Tom Sauer is a former bomb disposal officer. He says -


Source: https://twitter.com/thomasbsauer/status/1055145784994340869

External Quote:
"Hoax Devices" are FAR more common than real ones.
By the way, do you remember that time a "white supremacist, Trump supporter" called in bomb threats to 150 Jewish Community Centers and then it turned out to be a left-wing activist who used to work for The Intercept?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/juan-thompson-pleads-guilty-ex-journalist-jcc-bomb-threats/
External Quote:
A former journalist pleaded guilty on Tuesday to (...) making fake bomb threats, admitting he threatened Jewish organizations to disrupt his ex-girlfriend's life and cause her "great distress." (...) From January to March, more than 150 bomb threats were reported against Jewish community centers and day schools in 37 states and two Canadian provinces, according to the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish group that battles anti-Semitism.
Remember the time a "racist white Trump supporter" burned down a black church and then it was proven to be false?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/mississippi-church-fire.html
External Quote:
The authorities charged a man on Wednesday with setting fire last month to a predominantly African-American church in Greenville, Miss., where "Vote Trump" was found spray-painted on the side of the building. (...) Mr. McClinton, who is black, was a member of the church (...)"
There have been many more similar cases in the past 1-2 years.
Click to expand...


yep.
 
Critical Thinker said:
Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

CNN: Debunking the despicable 'false flag' theory on the mail bombs
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

External Quote:

Here's what would have had to happen for the events of Wednesday to be a false flag:
1. Someone or someones who wanted to help Democrats -- and the media, I guess, somehow? -- would send a series of pipe bombs to prominent Democrats around the country.
2. Then Democrats or the media or, again, someone, would have to have coordinated with the state and local police -- not to mention federal authorities -- so that law enforcement said that these were functional bombs (even though, again, according to this theory, they weren't).
Which, um, is not what happened. As any reasonable person -- regardless of your political affiliation -- can recognize that that sort of broad conspiracy not only stretches the bounds of the possible but snaps them in two.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the list of necessary assumptions.

Here's what would have had to happen for the events of Wednesday to be a false flag:
  1. A nut from the left sent a series of pipe bombs to prominent Democrats around the country to cause trouble for Republicans.
  • Surely?

Of course, even if that turned out to be true, that still be a plain-old conspiracy. If, however, the Democratic Party was involved, then that would be a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true. I also think that a nut-from-the-left+false-flag is less likely than a simple nut-from-the-right, by Occam.
 
Last edited:
qed said:
I disagree with the list of necessary assumptions.

Here's what would have had to happen for the events of Wednesday to be a false flag:
  1. A nut from the left sent a series of pipe bombs to prominent Democrats around the country to cause trouble for Republicans.
Surely?
Click to expand...

pretty much. it's not like this is some complex plot that required more than one person.
 
The bottom line is that it is a conspiratorial mindset to assume something is a false flag with NO EVIDENCE that it is a false flag. Ben Shapiro used a good phrase.. "assuming motivation for our opponents behavior". We all know what they say about 'assuming'.

There is no evidence this event is a false flag. period. And until there is, assuming it is a false flag is just fantasy thinking, projection or wishful thinking.
"Because the guy built the bombs wrong" is not evidence of a false flag.
Wrong things being reported in some newspapers or online websites is not evidence of a false flag.
Cherry picking assumptions about timing is not evidence of a false flag. etc etc.
 
From the Southern Poverty Law center

External Quote:

Study shows two-thirds of U.S. terrorism tied to right-wing extremists
September 12, 2018
Bill Morlin


A new terrorism database analysis shows almost two-thirds of the terror attacks in the United States last year were carried out by right-wing extremists.

Researchers and journalists for the news site Quartz said they used data compiled by the Global Terrorism Database that has tabulated terrorist events around the world since 1970. The database is supported by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), affiliated with the University of Maryland.

"A Quartz analysis of the database shows that almost two-thirds of terror attacks in the (United States) last year were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations," its posting says.

The remaining attacks, the web site said, "were driven by left-wing ideologies … and Islamic extremism."
And just how often are there 'false flag' claims that turned out to be true, versus false flag claims that turned out to be false?
 
  • Informative
Reactions: qed
The truck seized by the FBI.

upload_2018-10-26_17-58-10.png
 
And a wider shot.
14f9e2ab8370970b30cbba23b17a8cc5.jpg


Hard to say for sure, but looks like an obsessed Trump fan.

If so, that makes the "leftist false flag" much harder to maintain, and will push that theory into the realms of the hard-core conspiracists who will claim this guy is a "patsy", or a fake.
 
Given Trump's record of praising virtually anyone (including the most despotic of dictators) who
have said nice things about him, it should be interesting to see if/how long he holds out against
calling these bombs "terrorism." (He has resisted the term, to this point).
 
Mick West said:
And a wider shot.
Click to expand...
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.

NoParty said:
Given Trump's record of praising virtually anyone (including the most despotic of dictators) who
have said nice things about him, it should be interesting to see if/how long he holds out against
calling these bombs "terrorism." (He has resisted the term, to this point).
Click to expand...
Even though your post is off topic.. He called them "terrorizing acts".
External Quote:
"Terrorizing acts are despicable and have no place in our country," Trump said.

https://fox8.com/2018/10/26/live-video-one-in-custody-in-connection-with-package-bombs/
 
deirdre said:
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.
Click to expand...
You are straying into dangerous territory. How would you normally counter such a statement?
 
deirdre said:
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.


Even though your post is off topic.. He called them "terrorizing acts".
External Quote:
"Terrorizing acts are despicable and have no place in our country," Trump said.

https://fox8.com/2018/10/26/live-video-one-in-custody-in-connection-with-package-bombs/
Click to expand...
I agree with Trump, that--in general--they are. But when will he call this guy, a Trump supporter, a "terrorist"?
 
qed said:
You are straying into dangerous territory. How would you normally counter such a statement?
Click to expand...
I'd say men are often obsessively weird when it comes to pimping out their vehicles. (is that the right term? 'pimping out', now that I wrote it it sounds wrong)
 
  • Like
Reactions: qed
@NoParty

I too feel that your comments are inappropriate for this forum. You should consider withdrawing them. The political commentary that is.
 
I have seen this kind of writing before. On a wall. That is schizophrenia. At least shades of it. He has to write.
 
Mick West said:
Matches threats he made against David Hoggs:
Click to expand...
he supposedly threatened a utility worker for shoddy service too.
External Quote:

Sayoc was sentenced in August 2002 for threatening to throw a bomb in a conversation with a Florida utility representative, according to Ronald Lowy, a Miami attorney who represented him. Dade County court records showed Sayoc served a year's probation after a judge signed a discharge certificate in November 2002.

Lowy told The Associated Press that Sayoc "made a verbal threat when he was frustrated at a lack of service." Lowy said Sayoc showed no ability at the time to back up his threat with bomb-making expertise.
https://fox8.com/2018/10/26/package-bomb-suspect-identified-as-cesar-sayoc/
 
deirdre said:
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.
Click to expand...

His dashboard looks a bit messy.
Metabunk 2018-10-26 12-17-05.jpg


The windows appear to be custom printed decals, not stickers. Makes them look neat.
 
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