Explosive Devices sent to Clintons, Brennan (at CNN), Soros

Kavador

New Member
Are there many instances of "false flag" bombings in recent US history?
Tom Sauer is a former bomb disposal officer. He says -

Source: https://twitter.com/thomasbsauer/status/1055145784994340869

By the way, do you remember that time a "white supremacist, Trump supporter" called in bomb threats to 150 Jewish Community Centers and then it turned out to be a left-wing activist who used to work for The Intercept?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/juan-thompson-pleads-guilty-ex-journalist-jcc-bomb-threats/
Remember the time a "racist white Trump supporter" burned down a black church and then it was proven to be false?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/mississippi-church-fire.html
There have been many more similar cases in the past 1-2 years.
 
Last edited:

Mukna

New Member
The basic definition of False Flag is a military operation and that’s the way I look at it, too.
But is that what you think people are referring to in this case? Again this is coming down to semantics. I think it's pretty clear here that when people are talking about a false flag, they are meaning someone radically left-leaning orchestrating an act of terror that is supposed to be perceived as coming from someone radically right-leaning. I would also argue that swatting is a form of false flag. No literal flags have to be involved, just a perceived identity that is different to the actual identity.

I agree with NoParty in that this is an extremely heated time in politics right now and I think it would be silly to say that someone left leaning is less likely to perform an act of terror than someone who is right leaning based purely on the fact.

I entirely disagree that it's far more unlikely to be a false flag than just some right-wing nut job doing this. The only hard part would be making the devices, the false flag part is as easy as writing some addresses down.

Please don't take this as me saying IT'S A FALSE FLAG! But I think people are too easily dismissing the motive based on the idea of supposed false flags like Sandy Hook supposedly involving crisis actors, government agencies, etc. It just seems strange that people are jumping to ANY conclusions to me.
 

NoParty

Senior Member
yea but doesn't a 'false flag' have to be 'the government did it' or at least a large organization? Not just Joe Schmoe sent fake ricin to Susan Collins to implicate his liberal neighbor whose dog keeps pooping on his lawn.
Short answer: No. I recall that the etymology of the term is more with pirates,
and their particular brand of deception.

Yes, the YouTube conspiracy crowd uses it for "government gun grabbing" ad nauseum,
but it just means trying to blame someone else.

Heck, lots of historians think our Boston Tea Party guys dressed as Native Americans hoping the Mohawks
would get blamed, in America's first major false flag. (Mohawks are still salty about it today)...
 

deirdre

Senior Member
I think it would be silly to say that someone left leaning is less likely to perform an act of terror than someone who is right leaning based purely on the fact.
that's not the issue, the left has performed acts of terror, like the congressional baseball game shooting.

The issue is if a leftist would risk life in prison for... basically no reward.
 

qed

Senior Member
I have noticed that the false-flag possibility is being offered by some of the mainstream right. For example, Republican congressman Matt Gaetz says "I don't know if we can rule out that this is some kind of false flag". (see 11m16s)

Personally, I don't read too much into this. Politicians (around the world) often grab at conspiracy theories as a convenient political tool.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member
Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

CNN: Debunking the despicable 'false flag' theory on the mail bombs
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

At this point we just have to wait and see what the investigators find (unless they too are also part of some grand conspiracy!)
 

betamonk

Member
as time goes by, i lean more towards this being a hoax from the left. the focus of the sender seemed to be too much on the appearance rather than functionality. i believe a nut job from the right would have wanted to actually cause harm to the left, and they would have focused on functionality over appearance.
 

betamonk

Member
Tom Sauer is a former bomb disposal officer. He says -

Source: https://twitter.com/thomasbsauer/status/1055145784994340869

By the way, do you remember that time a "white supremacist, Trump supporter" called in bomb threats to 150 Jewish Community Centers and then it turned out to be a left-wing activist who used to work for The Intercept?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/juan-thompson-pleads-guilty-ex-journalist-jcc-bomb-threats/
Remember the time a "racist white Trump supporter" burned down a black church and then it was proven to be false?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/us/mississippi-church-fire.html
There have been many more similar cases in the past 1-2 years.
yep.
 

qed

Senior Member
Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.

CNN: Debunking the despicable 'false flag' theory on the mail bombs
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large

I disagree with the list of necessary assumptions.

Here's what would have had to happen for the events of Wednesday to be a false flag:
  1. A nut from the left sent a series of pipe bombs to prominent Democrats around the country to cause trouble for Republicans.
  • Surely?

Of course, even if that turned out to be true, that still be a plain-old conspiracy. If, however, the Democratic Party was involved, then that would be a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true. I also think that a nut-from-the-left+false-flag is less likely than a simple nut-from-the-right, by Occam.
 
Last edited:

betamonk

Member
I disagree with the list of necessary assumptions.

Here's what would have had to happen for the events of Wednesday to be a false flag:
  1. A nut from the left sent a series of pipe bombs to prominent Democrats around the country to cause trouble for Republicans.
Surely?
pretty much. it's not like this is some complex plot that required more than one person.
 

deirdre

Senior Member
The bottom line is that it is a conspiratorial mindset to assume something is a false flag with NO EVIDENCE that it is a false flag. Ben Shapiro used a good phrase.. "assuming motivation for our opponents behavior". We all know what they say about 'assuming'.

There is no evidence this event is a false flag. period. And until there is, assuming it is a false flag is just fantasy thinking, projection or wishful thinking.
"Because the guy built the bombs wrong" is not evidence of a false flag.
Wrong things being reported in some newspapers or online websites is not evidence of a false flag.
Cherry picking assumptions about timing is not evidence of a false flag. etc etc.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member
From the Southern Poverty Law center

And just how often are there 'false flag' claims that turned out to be true, versus false flag claims that turned out to be false?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
And a wider shot.


Hard to say for sure, but looks like an obsessed Trump fan.

If so, that makes the "leftist false flag" much harder to maintain, and will push that theory into the realms of the hard-core conspiracists who will claim this guy is a "patsy", or a fake.
 

NoParty

Senior Member
Given Trump's record of praising virtually anyone (including the most despotic of dictators) who
have said nice things about him, it should be interesting to see if/how long he holds out against
calling these bombs "terrorism." (He has resisted the term, to this point).
 

deirdre

Senior Member
And a wider shot.
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.

Given Trump's record of praising virtually anyone (including the most despotic of dictators) who
have said nice things about him, it should be interesting to see if/how long he holds out against
calling these bombs "terrorism." (He has resisted the term, to this point).
Even though your post is off topic.. He called them "terrorizing acts".
 

qed

Senior Member
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.
You are straying into dangerous territory. How would you normally counter such a statement?
 

NoParty

Senior Member
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.


Even though your post is off topic.. He called them "terrorizing acts".
I agree with Trump, that--in general--they are. But when will he call this guy, a Trump supporter, a "terrorist"?
 

deirdre

Senior Member
You are straying into dangerous territory. How would you normally counter such a statement?
I'd say men are often obsessively weird when it comes to pimping out their vehicles. (is that the right term? 'pimping out', now that I wrote it it sounds wrong)
 

qed

Senior Member
@NoParty

I too feel that your comments are inappropriate for this forum. You should consider withdrawing them. The political commentary that is.
 

qed

Senior Member
I have seen this kind of writing before. On a wall. That is schizophrenia. At least shades of it. He has to write.
 

deirdre

Senior Member
Matches threats he made against David Hoggs:
he supposedly threatened a utility worker for shoddy service too.
https://fox8.com/2018/10/26/package-bomb-suspect-identified-as-cesar-sayoc/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
ok even I think that van is suspicious looking. it's unnaturally clean and neat considering the envelopes and bombs were so sloppy.
His dashboard looks a bit messy.
Metabunk 2018-10-26 12-17-05.jpg

The windows appear to be custom printed decals, not stickers. Makes them look neat.
 
Top