Dutch Safety Board publish reports on MH17 crash, Tuesday Oct 13

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On October 13th 2015, DSB will publish its reports on the investigation into the crash of MH17. Times mentioned are UTC+2. Four themes will be dealt with:
- The causes of the crash
- The issue of flying over conflict areas
- The reasons why Dutch surviving relatives had to wait for two to four days for confirmation from the Dutch authorities that their loved ones had been on the aeroplane
- The question to what extent the occupants of flight MH17 consciously experienced the crash

The matter of who did it, will still be dealt with in the criminal investigation.

http://onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzo...ublication-of-the-mh17-reports-overview#fasen
 
For anyone interested, the presentation of the DSB report will be broadcasted live. The broadcast will start at 12:30 UTC+2, the presentation will start at 13:15 UTC+2. I am rather confident the second part will be in English :). A live stream can be found here.

EDIT: It was just confirmed that the presentation itself will indeed be in English.
 
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Mick West

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So im was right with position of missile in 3D modelling.
Who is "im"?

It's a little confusing that Almaz-Antey was previously arguing for a launch from Zaroshens'kye, but in this report it seems they did simulations that indicate an area to the south of Snizhne, and excludes the area of Zaroshens'kye

 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
It's a little confusing that Almaz-Antey was previously arguing for a launch from Zaroshens'kye, but in this report it seems they did simulations that indicate an area to the south of Snizhne, and excludes the area of Zaroshens'kye

According to the caption, this location was calculated by Almaz-Antey using NLR/TNO data. However, Almaz-Antey reported their own full-scale test, in which they detonated a BUK warhead next to the IL-86 cockpit. From those data they calculated a different location, similar to that in their previous claim. Here is a presentation of their version by BBC Russian:
http://www.bbc.com/russian/news/2015/10/151013_almaz_boeing_experiment

PS I have not found an English version of their presentation yet.
 
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Mick West

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According to the caption, this location was calculated by Almaz-Antey using NLR/TNO data. However, Almaz-Antey reported their own full-scale test, in which they detonated a BUK warhead next to the IL-86 cockpit. From those data they calculated a different location, similar to that in their previous claim. Here is a presentation of their version by BBC Russian:
http://www.bbc.com/russian/news/2015/10/151013_almaz_boeing_experiment

PS I have not found an English version of their presentation yet.
I've done a preliminary analysis of this video, and it seems to indicate a Snizhne launch when you factor in the speed of the missile.

https://www.metabunk.org/almaz-anteys-live-buk-explosion-tests.t6903/
 

doradcaR305

New Member
In the report p.127 one can find:

"The high-energy object damage was not caused by an air-to-air gun or cannon because:

- The number of the perforations was not consistent with gunfire, and

- Air-to-air gun / cannon fire does not produce fragments with the distinctive forms That were found in the wreckage and in the bodies of three of the crew members. "

The similar conclusion is about A-A missile.
This conclusion is completely alogical. Let me say this is nonsens. DSB investigators relied on the false assumption that demonstrate signs of firing a surface-air rocket automatically excludes the possibility of simultaneous use of other weapons.
In the same way someone could argue that on a particular day there was not a Mr. Smith in the park because the monitoring showed that there were 100 women, and Mr. Smith is not a woman.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
In the report p.127 one can find:

"The high-energy object damage was not caused by an air-to-air gun or cannon because:

- The number of the perforations was not consistent with gunfire, and

- Air-to-air gun / cannon fire does not produce fragments with the distinctive forms That were found in the wreckage and in the bodies of three of the crew members. "

The similar conclusion is about A-A missile.
This conclusion is completely alogical. Let me say this is nonsens. DSB investigators relied on the false assumption that demonstrate signs of firing a surface-air rocket automatically excludes the possibility of simultaneous use of other weapons.
In the same way someone could argue that on a particular day there was not a Mr. Smith in the park because the monitoring showed that there were 100 women, and Mr. Smith is not a woman.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim?
 

doradcaR305

New Member
Landru
Quote which I gave is sufficient to demonstrate the illogic of the conclusion in the report.

DSB has proven that there are traces of BUK , but this is insufficient to claim that another weapon was not used except BUK

If you're asking whether I know the evidence of another attack the answer is yes I know a lot of such evidence.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Landru
Quote which I gave is sufficient to demonstrate the illogic of the conclusion in the report.

DSB has proven that there are traces of BUK , but this is insufficient to claim that another weapon was not used except BUK

If you're asking whether I know the evidence of another attack the answer is yes I know a lot of such evidence.
Then provide it.
 

Miss VocalCord

Senior Member.
In the report p.127 one can find:
This conclusion is completely alogical. Let me say this is nonsens. DSB investigators relied on the false assumption that demonstrate signs of firing a surface-air rocket automatically excludes the possibility of simultaneous use of other weapons.
On page 131 of the report they discuss the possibility of multiple weapons:
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This thread does not conform to posting guidelines, and has been closed. Examination of specific claims of evidence should go in individual threads.
 
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