# Debunking Flat Earth with the Southern Hemisphere

#### Rogerpenna

##### New Member
Flat Earth was made by people in the Northern Hemisphere. It´s made to have the Polar Star at the center of their map and such.

But what about the SOUTHERN constellations?

The most famous southern constellation is the Southern Cross. It's located near the South direction.

Now, it turns out it can be night at the same time in Brazil and Australia. So a Brazilian and an Australian can BOTH look to their south at the same moment, same night, and BOTH will see the Southern Cross constellation.

OOPS... there is a problem... if the Southern Cross is south of a Brazilian, it should happen that an Australian would need to look almost NORTH to see it! Or vice versa.

Do Flat Earthers think there are TWO Southern Cross constellations? Maybe 3, considering a South African can do the same (although not at the same moment as the Australian and Brazilian... it´s never night in the 3 places at the same time).

Using the same map above, I want to tell that my sister constantly travels to Hong Kong, from Porto Alegre, Brazil.

It´s full of connections. A Flat Earther would already point out that a scale in Dubai proves a Flat Earth.

Well, maybe it could prove IN the case of Australia to Johanesburg, going through Dubai.

But her flight goes from São Paulo to Johanesburg. Then from Johanesburg to Dubai. Then from Dubai to Hong Kong.

Now, the funny part is that the travel time between São Paulo and Johanesburg is 9 hours 45 minutes.

Johanesburg to Dubai: 8 hours 10 minutes

Eh... let's look at the Flat Earth map again, shall we? The distance from São Paulo to Johanesburg in their map is at least 2x longer than Johanesburg to Dubai. Most likely 3x the distance!*

So it should take from 16 to 24 hours to get from São Paulo to Johanesburg, not 9 hours!

*draw the map to scale in a 3D program and calculated. SP to Joha is actually 4x the distance from Joha to Dubai. Travel time should be about 32 hours!

Another big problem with their model:

7 am in Wellington, New Zealand. 4pm in Brasilia.

Impossible in their map with their sun model.

Last edited:

#### Rory

##### Senior Member.
All very true. Seems to me like the flat earthers, however, are already deciding that the map they have isn't accurate, so perhaps all this will be explained when they get 'the right map'. I've never heard of one taking on board the evidence of direct flights across the southern hemisphere (of which there are at least 72 every week).

#### Chew

##### Senior Member.
I've never heard of one taking on board the evidence of direct flights across the southern hemisphere (of which there are at least 72 every week).

Most FEers say those flights don't exist. They say you can purchase the flights but they always get cancelled shortly before boarding.

#### JRBids

##### Senior Member.
Most FEers say those flights don't exist. They say you can purchase the flights but they always get cancelled shortly before boarding.

And all the passengers just go home and shrug.

#### TWCobra

##### Senior Member.
I'm flying the QF27 to Santiago tomorrow. If it doesn't exist, I'll let you know!

#### Z.W. Wolf

##### Senior Member.
Coincidentally a FE'er has recently put up a YT video about that very flight.

Background: "Jeranism" is a fervent FE believer. Max Igan is a CT; his major beef is with Israel. Igan is a FE agnostic - he doesn't see any definitive proof for any earth shape theory. He also doesn't see much importance in the issue, but he is willing to entertain it.

Igan was interviewed on this YT "program."

Igan recently took a flight from Santiago, Chile to Sydney, Australia. He decided to take along a magnetic compass.

Jeranism edited a portion of the interview into another YT video. He is conceding that the flight apparently exists, but discusses the "anomaly" Igan discovered, using the magnetic compass he brought along.

Igan says he fell asleep for about five hours and then awoke. On the seatback in front of him was a display. At some point he took photos of the display and the magnetic compass he took along.

(Igan does talk about checking through the rest of the flight after he woke up. But I can only talk clearly about the point of the flight at which he took these photos.)

At this point in the flight, the display showed the plane here, following a great circle route.

The display also showed this heading. Which makes sense.

But his magnetic compass showed this heading.

The display shows a heading north of west, but the magnetic compass shows a heading of south of west. So what's going on?

In the interview Igan seems aware that there may be something on the plane influencing the magnetic compass. He does not use the term magnetic deviation. But neither he nor Jeranism mentions magnetic declination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

The plane at this point is quite near the magnetic south pole, which is a considerable distance from the geographic south pole.

There's a considerable magnetic declination in that area.

The plane is north of the Ross Sea. The red arrow is pointing to Cape Adare and the line indicated by the yellow arrow seems to be the 180th meridian.

Using this map, along with the one from Wikipedia, I'm estimating there would be a positive magnetic declination of about 35 degrees. (The compass needle is pointing 35 degrees east of true north.)

Using that info, I can correct Igan's compass. The red line is true north, the yellow line is true west, and the green line is the heading - just north of west.

Which agrees with the heading on the display.

There doesn't seem to be any need to cite magnetic deviation to explain this anomaly; magnetic declination seems adequate.

Last edited:

#### Z.W. Wolf

##### Senior Member.
Jeranism's idea is that the plane actually was flying on a heading south of west, which would indicate that it was flying across the flat earth disk. He specifically cites the Gleason map (Gleason's new standard map of the world) - a projection which was specifically meant to be just what is printed on it: a longitude and time calculator.

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:7h149v85z

As far as I can tell, he never addresses the enormous amount of extra distance this route would involve.

#### Auldy

##### Senior Member.
Igan says he fell asleep for about five hours and then awoke. On the seatback in front of him was a display. At some point he took photos of the display and the magnetic compass he took along.

So a flat earther conspiracy theorist took an 'impossible flight' in either 1) an impossibly small amount of time, or 2) at an impossible speed, and managed to sleep through such a 'smoking gun' event?

Last edited:

#### Z.W. Wolf

##### Senior Member.
No, Max Igan is not a FE'er. He is a Conspiracy Theorist who has expressed dismay that the FE is taking attention away from the real threat - Israel.

He is an agonistic on the shape of the earth but took the compass along just to get some data. He doesn't like FE but it's such a hot topic that he can't ignore it. He seems to be to making a gesture; being tolerantly open minded.

Last edited:

#### TWCobra

##### Senior Member.
Looks like magnetic variation at the point in the video is around 30 degrees East.

"Variation East, Magnetic Least", yields a heading somewhere around 250 degrees depending on exactly where the reading was taken. So that is the "anomaly" explained.

#### Rory

##### Senior Member.
Oh! In my list of southern hemisphere flights I totally forgot the best of the lot: McMurdo to Admundsen Scott. Less than 3 hours in real life; 800 miles on the globe; and from one edge of the disk to the other - crossing the entirety of Russia, and also parts of Africa - on the flat earth.

#### zeantonio

##### New Member
Flat Earth was made by people in the Northern Hemisphere. It´s made to have the Polar Star at the center of their map and such.

But what about the SOUTHERN constellations?

The most famous southern constellation is the Southern Cross. It's located near the South direction.

Now, it turns out it can be night at the same time in Brazil and Australia. So a Brazilian and an Australian can BOTH look to their south at the same moment, same night, and BOTH will see the Southern Cross constellation.

OOPS... there is a problem... if the Southern Cross is south of a Brazilian, it should happen that an Australian would need to look almost NORTH to see it! Or vice versa.

Do Flat Earthers think there are TWO Southern Cross constellations? Maybe 3, considering a South African can do the same (although not at the same moment as the Australian and Brazilian... it´s never night in the 3 places at the same time).

Using the same map above, I want to tell that my sister constantly travels to Hong Kong, from Porto Alegre, Brazil.

It´s full of connections. A Flat Earther would already point out that a scale in Dubai proves a Flat Earth.

Well, maybe it could prove IN the case of Australia to Johanesburg, going through Dubai.

But her flight goes from São Paulo to Johanesburg. Then from Johanesburg to Dubai. Then from Dubai to Hong Kong.

Now, the funny part is that the travel time between São Paulo and Johanesburg is 9 hours 45 minutes.

Johanesburg to Dubai: 8 hours 10 minutes

Eh... let's look at the Flat Earth map again, shall we? The distance from São Paulo to Johanesburg in their map is at least 2x longer than Johanesburg to Dubai. Most likely 3x the distance!*

So it should take from 16 to 24 hours to get from São Paulo to Johanesburg, not 9 hours!

*draw the map to scale in a 3D program and calculated. SP to Joha is actually 4x the distance from Joha to Dubai. Travel time should be about 32 hours!

Another big problem with their model:

7 am in Wellington, New Zealand. 4pm in Brasilia.

Impossible in their map with their sun model.

Hi Rogerpenna, I'm more than 3 yrs late, but just recently this subject has come to my attention and your post has given me some insights I really needed to better understand this point.

I guess that the same standards applied to the flat Earth model should apply to the celestial sphere. So, I only can speculate that the Southern Cross should appear elongated in the Sky, like Brazil or Australia appear on their map.

I mean, they shouldn't think of two or any number of Southern Cross constellations, but of one stretched constellation in the Sky.

But observation directly contradicts the model.

Otherwise, based on the same premises, by adopting observations from the Southern Hemisphere, the model should have the South Pole on its center.

So, congrats on your post, you got an excellent point.

Replies
10
Views
4K
Replies
21
Views
1K
Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Needs debunking: flat earthers claim this reflection to show a harness in ISS video Flat Earth 10
TFTRH #14: Rory – Flat Earth Debunking and Spiritual Journeys Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 6
Does the inverse-square law apply to the flat-earth debunking tool chest? Flat Earth 4
Debunking Guidelines for: "Convex Earth - The Documentary" Flat Earth 0
Fireproof Cabbage, Burning Snow, Flat Earth - Are Some Things too Silly to Debunk? Practical Debunking 7
Flat Earth theory simple debunking by the moon's appearance Flat Earth 48
Needs debunking: Video of a solar eclipse is fake because we cannot see the moon covering the sun Flat Earth 5
Earth curvature refraction experiments - debunking flat/concave Earth Flat Earth 344
Debunking resource: Engineers Assess the Truth in AE911Truth (Scott & Hamburger, 2021) 9/11 9
Needs debunking: Pentagon plane could have been shot down 9/11 10
Need Debunking: Concert photograph from 8/27/21 (Billy Strings) fans claiming UFO. No eyewitness that I know of. UFOs and Aliens 12
Need help debunking FE video Flat Earth 42
Debunking backfiring Practical Debunking 36
Need Debunking: Apollo 12 LM caught on a wire Conspiracy Theories 12
Need Debunking: "Experimental Vaccine Death Rate for Israel's Elderly 40 Times Higher Than COVID-19 Deaths" Coronavirus COVID-19 7
Gabriel Sterling Debunking Trumps Accusations from the Raffernsperger Call Election 2020 3
Needs Debunking: That the GPS does not implement time corrections from Einstein's relativity Science and Pseudoscience 7
Needs Debunking: Proposed COVID Vaccine will become part of our DNA, make us programmable Coronavirus COVID-19 37
Needs Debunking: "UFO crash" near Rio de Janeiro UFOs and Aliens 17
Needs Debunking: CE-5, humans initiating UFO sightings UFOs and Aliens 15
Debunking Correlations Between 5G deployments and Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Need Debunking: Foucault's Pendulum debunked through Mach's principle (the Earth is a static object in the center of the Universe) Science and Pseudoscience 16
TFTRH #34 - Stian Arnesen: Debunking, Censorship, 9/11, and UFOs Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 0
Need Debunking: Hernando County platforms from more than 10 miles Flat Earth 9
Needs debunking: "Magnetic water" for treating diabetes Health and Quackery 8
Two problems need help debunking and debating tips? please. Flat Earth 9
The Easy And Logical Debunking Of UFO 'Size' UFOs and Aliens 1
MediaWise #IsThisLegit program Practical Debunking 1
Need Debunking: Video claiming zigzaggin objects and movement prove EVA filmed in pool General Discussion 33
Need debunking: Writings in the sky Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 11
Debunking 9/11 Microsphere Myths 9/11 0
Debunking Bob Lazar's drawing of S-4 hangers UFOs and Aliens 15
Debunking needed – anomalous mp3 recording distortion Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 12
Here's to the "Debunker"! Practical Debunking 1
Need Debunking (Claim): Metabunk Curve Calculator Does Not Calculate for Angular Size Flat Earth 13
NY Times: In Italian Schools, Reading, Writing and Recognizing Fake News Practical Debunking 60
Debunking: A Meta-Analysis of the Psychological Efficacy of Messages Countering Misinformation Practical Debunking 5
Where online is debunking most effective? Practical Debunking 14
Martymer 81 Practical Debunking 4
Neeson's anti-debunking thoughts Site Feedback & News 15
Burying the Debunk: How Fake News about "Pyramids" in Antarctica Creates False Balance Ghosts, Monsters, and the Paranormal 2
Debunking911.com offline - How to Preserve Good Debunking Sites? 9/11 3
Debunking "That's not a Space Station, it's an airplane" Flat Earth 1
When Absence of Evidence is Evidence of Absence in Conspiracy Theories Practical Debunking 35
Polite video interviewing/debunking Practical Debunking 8
Any resources for debunking a 'cold case' UFO sighting? Practical Debunking 7
Study: When Debunking Scientific Myths Fails (and When It Does Not) Practical Debunking 3
study on how to 'sway people' Practical Debunking 0
Pseudo debunking, trickery, product promos Health and Quackery 10
College Course on Conspiracies Practical Debunking 89
Related Articles