Debunking Flat Earth with the Southern Hemisphere

[Rogerpenna]

Flat Earth was made by people in the Northern Hemisphere. It´s made to have the Polar Star at the center of their map and such.

But what about the SOUTHERN constellations?


The most famous southern constellation is the Southern Cross. It's located near the South direction.


Now, it turns out it can be night at the same time in Brazil and Australia. So a Brazilian and an Australian can BOTH look to their south at the same moment, same night, and BOTH will see the Southern Cross constellation.

OOPS... there is a problem... if the Southern Cross is south of a Brazilian, it should happen that an Australian would need to look almost NORTH to see it! Or vice versa.

Do Flat Earthers think there are TWO Southern Cross constellations? Maybe 3, considering a South African can do the same (although not at the same moment as the Australian and Brazilian... it´s never night in the 3 places at the same time).

Using the same map above, I want to tell that my sister constantly travels to Hong Kong, from Porto Alegre, Brazil.

It´s full of connections. A Flat Earther would already point out that a scale in Dubai proves a Flat Earth.

Well, maybe it could prove IN the case of Australia to Johanesburg, going through Dubai.

But her flight goes from São Paulo to Johanesburg. Then from Johanesburg to Dubai. Then from Dubai to Hong Kong.


Now, the funny part is that the travel time between São Paulo and Johanesburg is 9 hours 45 minutes.

Johanesburg to Dubai: 8 hours 10 minutes

About 1:30 minutes longer flight.

Eh... let's look at the Flat Earth map again, shall we? The distance from São Paulo to Johanesburg in their map is at least 2x longer than Johanesburg to Dubai. Most likely 3x the distance!*

So it should take from 16 to 24 hours to get from São Paulo to Johanesburg, not 9 hours!

*draw the map to scale in a 3D program and calculated. SP to Joha is actually 4x the distance from Joha to Dubai. Travel time should be about 32 hours!

Another big problem with their model:

7 am in Wellington, New Zealand. 4pm in Brasilia.

Impossible in their map with their sun model.

 

[Rory]

All very true. Seems to me like the flat earthers, however, are already deciding that the map they have isn't accurate, so perhaps all this will be explained when they get 'the right map'. I've never heard of one taking on board the evidence of direct flights across the southern hemisphere (of which there are at least 72 every week).

 

[Chew]

I've never heard of one taking on board the evidence of direct flights across the southern hemisphere (of which there are at least 72 every week).

Most FEers say those flights don't exist. They say you can purchase the flights but they always get cancelled shortly before boarding.

 

[JRBids]

Most FEers say those flights don't exist. They say you can purchase the flights but they always get cancelled shortly before boarding.

And all the passengers just go home and shrug.

 

[TWCobra]

I'm flying the QF27 to Santiago tomorrow. If it doesn't exist, I'll let you know!

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Coincidentally a FE'er has recently put up a YT video about that very flight.

Background: "Jeranism" is a fervent FE believer. Max Igan is a CT; his major beef is with Israel. Igan is a FE agnostic - he doesn't see any definitive proof for any earth shape theory. He also doesn't see much importance in the issue, but he is willing to entertain it.

Igan was interviewed on this YT "program."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf1kyGY0fjU


Igan recently took a flight from Santiago, Chile to Sydney, Australia. He decided to take along a magnetic compass.

Jeranism edited a portion of the interview into another YT video. He is conceding that the flight apparently exists, but discusses the "anomaly" Igan discovered, using the magnetic compass he brought along.



Igan says he fell asleep for about five hours and then awoke. On the seatback in front of him was a display. At some point he took photos of the display and the magnetic compass he took along.

(Igan does talk about checking through the rest of the flight after he woke up. But I can only talk clearly about the point of the flight at which he took these photos.)

At this point in the flight, the display showed the plane here, following a great circle route.

The display also showed this heading. Which makes sense.

But his magnetic compass showed this heading.

The display shows a heading north of west, but the magnetic compass shows a heading of south of west. So what's going on?

In the interview Igan seems aware that there may be something on the plane influencing the magnetic compass. He does not use the term magnetic deviation. But neither he nor Jeranism mentions magnetic declination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination


The plane at this point is quite near the magnetic south pole, which is a considerable distance from the geographic south pole.

There's a considerable magnetic declination in that area.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/World_Magnetic_Declination_2015.pdf


The plane is north of the Ross Sea. The red arrow is pointing to Cape Adare and the line indicated by the yellow arrow seems to be the 180th meridian.

Using this map, along with the one from Wikipedia, I'm estimating there would be a positive magnetic declination of about 35 degrees. (The compass needle is pointing 35 degrees east of true north.)

Using that info, I can correct Igan's compass. The red line is true north, the yellow line is true west, and the green line is the heading - just north of west.

Which agrees with the heading on the display.

There doesn't seem to be any need to cite magnetic deviation to explain this anomaly; magnetic declination seems adequate.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Jeranism's idea is that the plane actually was flying on a heading south of west, which would indicate that it was flying across the flat earth disk. He specifically cites the Gleason map (Gleason's new standard map of the world) - a projection which was specifically meant to be just what is printed on it: a longitude and time calculator.

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:7h149v85z

As far as I can tell, he never addresses the enormous amount of extra distance this route would involve.

 

[Auldy]

Igan says he fell asleep for about five hours and then awoke. On the seatback in front of him was a display. At some point he took photos of the display and the magnetic compass he took along.

So a flat earther conspiracy theorist took an 'impossible flight' in either 1) an impossibly small amount of time, or 2) at an impossible speed, and managed to sleep through such a 'smoking gun' event?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

No, Max Igan is not a FE'er. He is a Conspiracy Theorist who has expressed dismay that the FE is taking attention away from the real threat - Israel.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=maxigan israel

He is an agonistic on the shape of the earth but took the compass along just to get some data. He doesn't like FE but it's such a hot topic that he can't ignore it. He seems to be to making a gesture; being tolerantly open minded.

 

[TWCobra]

Looks like magnetic variation at the point in the video is around 30 degrees East.

"Variation East, Magnetic Least", yields a heading somewhere around 250 degrees depending on exactly where the reading was taken. So that is the "anomaly" explained.

 

[Rory]

Oh! In my list of southern hemisphere flights I totally forgot the best of the lot: McMurdo to Admundsen Scott. Less than 3 hours in real life; 800 miles on the globe; and from one edge of the disk to the other - crossing the entirety of Russia, and also parts of Africa - on the flat earth.

 

[zeantonio]

Flat Earth was made by people in the Northern Hemisphere. It´s made to have the Polar Star at the center of their map and such.

But what about the SOUTHERN constellations?


The most famous southern constellation is the Southern Cross. It's located near the South direction.


Now, it turns out it can be night at the same time in Brazil and Australia. So a Brazilian and an Australian can BOTH look to their south at the same moment, same night, and BOTH will see the Southern Cross constellation.

OOPS... there is a problem... if the Southern Cross is south of a Brazilian, it should happen that an Australian would need to look almost NORTH to see it! Or vice versa.

Do Flat Earthers think there are TWO Southern Cross constellations? Maybe 3, considering a South African can do the same (although not at the same moment as the Australian and Brazilian... it´s never night in the 3 places at the same time).

Using the same map above, I want to tell that my sister constantly travels to Hong Kong, from Porto Alegre, Brazil.

It´s full of connections. A Flat Earther would already point out that a scale in Dubai proves a Flat Earth.

Well, maybe it could prove IN the case of Australia to Johanesburg, going through Dubai.

But her flight goes from São Paulo to Johanesburg. Then from Johanesburg to Dubai. Then from Dubai to Hong Kong.


Now, the funny part is that the travel time between São Paulo and Johanesburg is 9 hours 45 minutes.

Johanesburg to Dubai: 8 hours 10 minutes

About 1:30 minutes longer flight.

Eh... let's look at the Flat Earth map again, shall we? The distance from São Paulo to Johanesburg in their map is at least 2x longer than Johanesburg to Dubai. Most likely 3x the distance!*

So it should take from 16 to 24 hours to get from São Paulo to Johanesburg, not 9 hours!

*draw the map to scale in a 3D program and calculated. SP to Joha is actually 4x the distance from Joha to Dubai. Travel time should be about 32 hours!

Another big problem with their model:

7 am in Wellington, New Zealand. 4pm in Brasilia.

Impossible in their map with their sun model.

Hi Rogerpenna, I'm more than 3 yrs late, but just recently this subject has come to my attention and your post has given me some insights I really needed to better understand this point.

I guess that the same standards applied to the flat Earth model should apply to the celestial sphere. So, I only can speculate that the Southern Cross should appear elongated in the Sky, like Brazil or Australia appear on their map.

I mean, they shouldn't think of two or any number of Southern Cross constellations, but of one stretched constellation in the Sky.

But observation directly contradicts the model.

Otherwise, based on the same premises, by adopting observations from the Southern Hemisphere, the model should have the South Pole on its center.

So, congrats on your post, you got an excellent point.