Debunked: Using 13.56Mhz radio waves and HAARP to remove Methane from the Atmosphere

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
This extremely alarming paper
has an interesting proposed use for HAARP.
http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/decomposing-atmospheric-methane.html

Is this a plausible thing HAARP can do?
 
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Jason

Senior Member
Is this a plausible thing HAARP can do?
I honestly don't know enought to answer that question but there are several things we can do as a civilization to combat the methane issue our planet will face in the years ahead as we continue to warm. We can use methane hydrates to produce energy and electricity. We can even use excess CO2 to pump into methane deposits to retreive the methane. This is a win/win because we are storing away the greenhouse gas CO2 and trapping it in the pocket where methane was formerly. http://worldoceanreview.com/wp-content/downloads/wor3/WOR3_chapter_3.pdf
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Is this a plausible thing HAARP can do?

No. Utterly not.

Methane does not magically decompose at 13.56 Mhz. 13.56 is an arbitrary frequency reserved for industrial usages, things like induction plasma generators. It's simply chosen so there's a frequency that industry can use that won't interfere with radio communications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_etching
The paper he references uses a plasma reactor to heat methane into the plasma state (i.e. free ionized hydrogen and carbon atoms), then this is deposited as carbon. This is all done in a small vessel, with precise mixes of gases (including other inert gases like argon), and uses a lot of energy in a very small, and hot, location.
http://www.journalamme.org/papers_cams05/1244.pdf


It's not decomposing because it's vibrating at 13.56. Its decomposing because it's inside a plasma reactor.

And it's not using RF radiation to heat the methane, it's using a very strong electrical field that's oscillating at radio frequency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma-enhanced_chemical_vapor_deposition
It's kind of like saying "let's fry all the methane out of the atmosphere by turning all the microwave ovens inside out." It's nonsense.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
13.56 Mhz is the frequency that most RFID smart cards work at. Not because it's magic, but again because it's reserved for non-comms type things (it's only operating over very short distances)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_14443
So if this scheme worked, you'd expect all the RFID readers in the subway to be coated with diamond nanodust by now.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Well though that proposal comes only at the end of the paper and isn't its focus, does it call into question the premise of the paper, that unchecked methane release will lead to an ELE in 50 years?
Because it's such an extreme outcome its hard not to see it as dubious. It's a little hard for me to follow the method of reasoning to see if it's making errors in assumption along the way, but I hope it is.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Couldn't find any in-depth criticism of the paper, but did find this...
 
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