Debunked: Triton Artificial Gills (Indigogo Campaign)

Doing some google-fu suggests the phrase "Coming soon on IndieGogo" didn't appear on the site at all before March 6th this year, and the other 87 projects with that landing page/URL style all appear to have never fully launched on IGG.

https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:indiegogo.com "Coming soon on indiegogo"

Use "More search tools" to set a custom date range with *only* an end date on 31st March 2016 to find the earliest example. 29th Feb shows no results.

So, this looks like a campaign truly rolled back to 'pre-launch' status. Logically you wouldn't do this without refunding customers* but who knows.

Nobody got their single Euro donation back? Or were they already refunded to weed out the unbelievers?

* Edit - Silly me! Backers.
 
Yes, that looks way more plausible. It's improving on technology that;s been around a long time. The calculations at the beginning of the thread suggest if the battery runs out, the flotation chamber that is emergency air will last just under 1 minute. Admittedly as you use it up it will lose buoyancy and sink, but how long would it take to swim up 12m? surely this isn't deep enough you would need to pause to acclimatise yourself to prevent Nitrogen Narcosis (the bends)

21lbs isn't TERRIBLY light (It's about 3 normal electric guitars or 2 Gibson Les Pauls) but sounds perfectly manageable.
 
Has anyone been refunded after the campaign closed and now that it shows the new campaign staring soon?

I have been watching this one for a while and it just went live. Seems a bit more plausible.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-ultimate-tankless-dive-system?token=106f10d8

We received info from a couple contributors several weeks ago who wanted to be part of our effort if the campaign turned out to be fraudulent. I've just now reached out to them to confirm that they did, indeed, get their refunds from Indiegogo. I'll report accordingly when I get info.
 
Has anyone been refunded after the campaign closed and now that it shows the new campaign staring soon?

The refunds look real - no previous backers have commented publicly to absolutely confirm though. The 'coming soon' page seems to be just a generic placeholder, it doesn't rule out a reappearance of the campaign but it seems less likely as it would be a steep uphill task to now restart it again for the third time.

I have been watching this one for a while and it just went live. Seems a bit more plausible.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-ultimate-tankless-dive-system?token=106f10d8

These kind of products already exist - here is an example:
http://www.browniesmarinegroup.com/third-lung-diving/electric-diving-systems/#VS Floating Hookah Systems

This kickstarter looks essentially no different from the existing product types, apart from a bit smaller and lighter, which is certainly plausible given advances in battery technology, and that it only claims to support a single diver as opposed to multiple divers for the Brownie's product.

As a diver, those things make me shudder a bit for multiple reasons, but they have their uses - as an unthreatening introduction to the underwater world for curious people under the guidance of a dive professional, or for people who just want to clean the bottom of their boat for example.

Edit - lots of people posting at the same time. :)
 
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Yes, that looks way more plausible. It's improving on technology that;s been around a long time.

This technology, among others:

http://www.scuba.com/US/scuba-gear-...fJHOVOkbzRIma3lgvhaNLRdU3BfUph-KhcaAtS88P8HAQ

..surely this isn't deep enough you would need to pause to acclimatise yourself to prevent Nitrogen Narcosis (the bends)

Those are two completely different things. One involves depth, the other too rapid ascent. Decompression illness is a distinct possibility with this without proper training.

You're not a diver, are you?
 
We are still working on trying to get some info from Indiegogo regarding what took place. It would be in their interest to paint themselves as responsible so I'm hoping they will at least confirm whether it was a failure by the campaigners to provide info or simply an assessment of the debunking that led them to pull the plug.

As I look back over the facts that we know, I'm intrigued by the three culprits and wonder whether we'll ever hear from or about any of them. My guess is that John Khademi put up any funding required to pay the promoters while Yeon obviously contributed the design & graphics. John was purported to have a "real" job in Stockholm. That would leave Saeed, who was unemployed, to put in the "work" of selling the scam and would explain why he was the only one with any real active presence. If that's correct, they chose poorly because a sharper con artist would very likely have been able to pull this off by avoiding the provably false claims and arrogant responses that Saeed couldn't help himself from making.
 
This technology, among others:

http://www.scuba.com/US/scuba-gear-...fJHOVOkbzRIma3lgvhaNLRdU3BfUph-KhcaAtS88P8HAQ



Those are two completely different things. One involves depth, the other too rapid ascent. Decompression illness is a distinct possibility with this without proper training.

You're not a diver, are you?
No, I'm not. i'm sure that was obvious. I might well be basing eroneous information from a book I read, but I do know you can;t just come up fast from depth without problems.

This product does not mention that you would still need diving training exactly, but unlike Triton, does not IMPLY you don;t need any.
In fact, regarding videos and such:
External Quote:
In addition, we will also support you by providing instruction videos, where we remind you of the key diving principles and safety rules and provide some practical tips, such as how to choose the right amount of weights or how to clear your mask.
suggests they might still think you ought to have some training first.
 
This technology, among others:

http://www.scuba.com/US/scuba-gear-...fJHOVOkbzRIma3lgvhaNLRdU3BfUph-KhcaAtS88P8HAQ



Those are two completely different things. One involves depth, the other too rapid ascent. Decompression illness is a distinct possibility with this without proper training.

You're not a diver, are you?
Your (oh, and huwp's too) post led me to look at some of the hookah options.

It's making me think that these crowdfunding businesses (Kickstarter, etc.) should have a section
that says, effectively: "Since your proposal is so similar to existing products, how will you legally differentiate yours?"
or something like that.

It looks like I can go on Amazon today and purchase a Brownie's version for about the expected, eventual price
of the hypothetical AirBuddy...but more powerful, that can support multiple users.


p.s. I am not, and have never been a diver nor a member of the Communist Party...
 
In fact, regarding videos and such:
External Quote:
In addition, we will also support you by providing instruction videos, where we remind you of the key diving principles and safety rules and provide some practical tips, such as how to choose the right amount of weights or how to clear your mask.
suggests they might still think you ought to have some training first.

As I stated before, this is yet another device with the potential to kill you. Instructional videos by themselves just aren't going to be enough.
 
No, I'm not. i'm sure that was obvious. I might well be basing eroneous information from a book I read, but I do know you can;t just come up fast from depth without problems.
DCS (bends) are only a remote risk at 45 minutes in 12 meters or less, although a very rapid ascent could possibly do some harm anyway too. Barotrauma is a much more serious danger. It happens due to the overpressure when the diver omits to exhale during the entire ascent, which is more than likely at an untrained person (the air in your lungs doubles its volume at the ascent from 10m, causing lung injury and/or gas embolism). Even many trained divers without sufficient experience can easily forget to exhale when ascending in panic, so without the drill it is very likely.
 
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Also, many repeated ascents and descents, even in shallow water, has increased risk of decompression sickness. I know of instructors who have suffered DCS after a long day with multiple groups of trainees, repeatedly surfacing to talk to the students then descending again. Training would still need to cover that risk.

For completeness sake; Nitrogen Narcosis is a very different effect, where the pressure of nitrogen gas in your breathing mixture causes a mildly anaesthetic effect on the nerves. It has been likened a little to being drunk - sometimes 'the narks' can make you euphoric or risk taking, sometimes anxious, and it always reduces your decision making ability. There is a lot of debate about the effects, as it seems a bit variable between individuals and very variable between experiences (largely because one effect of being narked is reduced awareness that you are narked...) but in general effects start to become noticeable on air deeper than about 30 metres, and get stronger with greater depth.

(Footnote; Helium gas does not cause narcotic effects like Nitrogen, which is why deep divers add Helium to their breathing mix, to retain a clear head at depth. Breathing Helium adds other complications but that is another story. :) )
 
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This is a comment Guy Raz just did on my anti-Triton IGG campaign:
External Quote:
Guy Raz - 19 minutes ago
Ok, everybody, listen up: I just received this response from IGG:

“Aileen, May 8, 17:33:

Hello,

Over a month ago, our Trust and Safety team reached out to the Triton team in response to numerous questions from our community surrounding the the claims made in their most recent campaign. Despite our repeated requests to substantiate these claims, the Triton team have not been able to comply, and we have decided to refund all contributions to the campaign."

This qualifies as a high-5 moment! :)
 
This is a comment Guy Raz just did on my anti-Triton IGG campaign:
External Quote:
Guy Raz - 19 minutes ago
Ok, everybody, listen up: I just received this response from IGG:

“Aileen, May 8, 17:33:

Hello,

Over a month ago, our Trust and Safety team reached out to the Triton team in response to numerous questions from our community surrounding the the claims made in their most recent campaign. Despite our repeated requests to substantiate these claims, the Triton team have not been able to comply, and we have decided to refund all contributions to the campaign."

This qualifies as a high-5 moment! :)
I think the big news is that they have a Trust and Safety team! (or did scary liquid oxygen claims just inspire one? :p)

At any rate, justice finally prevails! Yay!
 
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This is a comment Guy Raz just did on my anti-Triton IGG campaign:
External Quote:
Guy Raz - 19 minutes ago
Ok, everybody, listen up: I just received this response from IGG:

“Aileen, May 8, 17:33:

Hello,

Over a month ago, our Trust and Safety team reached out to the Triton team in response to numerous questions from our community surrounding the the claims made in their most recent campaign. Despite our repeated requests to substantiate these claims, the Triton team have not been able to comply, and we have decided to refund all contributions to the campaign."

This qualifies as a high-5 moment! :)

Not buying it.

At over a month ago, it would mean that they apparently did this after Triton #1 and before the Triton #2 relaunch. It took them this long to determine that Triton was a scam? They had to let it go to the #2 campaign?

Isn't it also a remarkable coincidence that this email comes out at precisely the time that some of us asked about one?
 
Another Triton campaign appeared on IGG, but I do not think it will last long:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/triton--9

shot-20160509-1986-1et5lhc.jpeg

EDIT: and another one here:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/triton-aqua-breathe/
 
At over a month ago, it would mean that they apparently did this after Triton #1 and before the Triton #2 relaunch. It took them this long to determine that Triton was a scam?

I would read that as, they started reaching out over a month ago. They then go on to talk about 'repeated requests to substantiate these claims' so I imagine it was a long process. I would dearly love to read those emails...

Maybe we could offer Saeed $10 to buy the mockup Triton plus the email trove for posterity?
 
Anyone want to start a book on how long til this next totally impractical concept design turns up in a crowdfunding campaign?

http://scubadiverlife.com/2016/01/21/could-a-rebreather-helmet-revolutionize-scuba-diving/

The comments on the article highlight some of the ways that it wouldn't work, but most important is the claim that 'the interior of the helmet maintains surface pressure', which if true would be already be agonisingly uncomfortable at only a couple of metres depth, and, as the user's chest would be exposed to the ambient pressure of the water, would suck all the air out of the user's lungs and make it impossible to breathe in.

In other words, another fantasy concept from a design student who has no knowledge of diving physics or physiology, but who thinks they can design a better mousetrap anyway, promoted by media who should know better. Sound familiar?

Quote from the article:
External Quote:
note that the rebreather helmet, while exciting, is only in the conceptual phase, meaning that the idea is described and a model has been made, but no prototype exist, and no tests have been done.
If anyone is misguided enough to launch a crowdfunding scam based on this it can be debunked properly...
 
In that case it seems to be simply a visual design for a helmet, and nothing more.
Correct - and that was exactly how Triton started, two years ago. As a student visual design for a 'gills' concept and nothing more.

I'm not implying any intention on the part of the student designer of this helmet to take it further, but I do believe scammers are watching for concepts that attract viral attention that they might be able to convert in to crowdfunding scams.

Edit - looking at the student page, there is no mention of the 'surface pressure within the helmet' claim that is in the article I linked, so it isn't clear where that came from. It might come from a separate interview the journalists undertook with the designer, or it might be pure invention on their part. Either way it is bunk.
 
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As I stated before, this is yet another device with the potential to kill you. Instructional videos by themselves just aren't going to be enough.
No, I thought the word REMIND suggested they were expecting you to ALREADY have some kind of diving training, but they certainly aren't clear.
 
Triton's Indiegogo campaign may be over, but they are still hard at work policing comments on their Facebook page. It took just six minutes for my comment to be deleted and my posting privileges on their page to be revoked!
 
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Triton's Indiegogo campaign may be over, but they are still hard at work policing comments on their Facebook page. It took just six minutes for my comment to be deleted and my posting privileges on their page to be revoked!
Indeed, I have used a couple different accounts to post comments on their FB page and similarly had my comments quickly deleted and my posting privileges revoked. I saw a couple other comments that are now gone as well. Apparently they are not willing to slink away into the night. You can imagine how frustrated they feel right now. They have proof positive that gullible and unsophisticated people will throw money - lots of money - at this concept if they can only figure out an online vehicle to use to accept it. My guess is they are scrutinizing other crowdfunding sites or they will simply try to turn their current webpage into an e-commerce portal to start accepting credit cards. I cannot imagine Saeed Khademi walking away from this without trying something.
 
I cannot imagine Saeed Khademi walking away from this without trying something.

The two poor attempts currently on IGG puzzle me greatly. They are so badly done it makes me wonder why they even made the effort.

They do prove that IGG doesn't really monitor what is put on the site, though. How else could they ever have even been posted?
 
But you found these projects by specifically searching for the name "Triton", right? Otherwise you would not find them easily. Since campaigns like this don't collect any money, and don't show up easily I honestly see no point in making somebody read thought all of them and approve them manually. They don't really do any harm, and sorting thought them would be a waste of time and a horribly sad job for somebody. It's important they approve campaigns when they actually start collecting money (like kickstarter does) or at least before sending the money to the campaign creator (as IGG did with Triton). We should complain about campaigns like the Bioo or Fontus that are being funded now, and not about harmless boring stuff.
 
you never know how gullible people can be.
decieve people into thinking you have found this thing (or even worse, pose as triton and guide people who were supporting the original to the blatant copy) and these could more or less easily make money.
 
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but this case seems intresting. assuming the calims are true this is just PARTIALLY a scam since of the 2 main people one was the bad person and the other one was serious and some facts could be verified (e.g. that that other person doesnt have access to the company bank account anymore)
 
I've noticed an interesting thing about deleting comments on Facebook. It apparently DOES leave a trace behind, the count of the comments and replies simply does not match what you see. Or am I mistaken? Screenshot attached, thought you can try it yourself on Tritons Facebook.
facebookCensor.png
 
I've noticed an interesting thing about deleting comments on Facebook. It apparently DOES leave a trace behind, the count of the comments and replies simply does not match what you see. Or am I mistaken? Screenshot attached, thought you can try it yourself on Tritons Facebook.View attachment 19163

Yes, that is correct. One of my favourite chemtrail believers often has several comments on his posts, none of which is visible when you click.
 
Yes, that is correct. One of my favourite chemtrail believers often has several comments on his posts, none of which is visible when you click.

I found out that sometimes it has to with reported spam for sunglass sales and the like reported to Facebook. It's the reason that some posts on the feed show a number of comments that don't pull up.
 
And their Facebook page is down now too. I wonder whether they are cleaning up after themselves voluntarily (if so, then why?), or whether FB and their hosting provider removed the content based on complaints, or got an order from authorities.
 
Interesting, the facebook page was up last night - I checked in light of the website going dark. There was no obvious new page owner activity, but there appeared to be relatively recent missing comments (it would show e.g. '5 replies', but if you clicked to see it would show only one or none) so someone appeared to still be sanitising the page.
 
I checked earlier today and it was there, and what you saw - signs of cleaning out comments within the last week or two at least.

I doubt it's authorities, more likely packing it in and giving up the game and hoping DFE protocols will sufficiently sanitize their web presence that future employers won't notice "two failed million dollar scams" when checking them out.
 
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