Debunked: Look-Up.org.uk Alleged "spray pipes" on A-320 are Pylon Drains

TWCobra

Senior Member.
I think Ian has simply heard what he wanted to hear from Airbus.

Airbus don't manufacture the pylon. The pylon is proprietary to the engine used, so the engine maker builds it. There is ample photographic evidence of aircraft leaving the factory with installed pylons.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
His website still says:

- doesn't look like it's been changed for a while.

Given that "what he knows" is in emails from Airbus or EASA it isn't going to be a secret to them!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
His website still says:

- doesn't look like it's been changed for a while.

Given that "what he knows" is in emails from Airbus or EASA it isn't going to be a secret to them!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

He did publish the emails from easyJet which confirmed what the pipes were. He seems to have removed them now though.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Would those be in the way back machine?? No...it isn't alas. It has snapshots from August last year and 2 March this year - neither have anything actually substantive.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Would those be in the way back machine?? No...it isn't alas. It has snapshots from August last year and 2 March this year - neither have anything actually substantive.

Quoted here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-320-are-pylon-drains.2855/page-4#post-123230

Original URL is dead: http://www.look-up.org.uk/easyjet-response/

but archived at http://web.archive.org/web/20140826031240/http://www.look-up.org.uk/easyjet-response/


As far as I know he never published the response from Airbus, or from Robert Crew of British Airways maintenance division, whom he mentioned having spoken to in his Cambridge talk.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
His website still says:^

- doesn't look like it's been changed for a while.

Given that "what he knows" is in emails from Airbus or EASA it isn't going to be a secret to them!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:








These were visible on Look-up's website but now the page seems to have gone.

I suspect Ian's first email to Airbus, were it available, would go some way to explaining the answer he got. Clearly he'd mentioned "spray pipes".

Ray Von
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Thanks - looks to me like he got a full and complete answer, doesn't belive it, insists they provide him with more evidence, and they say - no, you've got enough with a subtext of "we don't want to waste any more of our time on your nonsense"

I'd forgotten the aspect that the pipes can be "indicators" - a leak may occur somewhere not visible, they put in a pipe to drain THAT location - so if there is a leak it becomes visible.
 

skephu

Senior Member.
Thanks - looks to me like he got a full and complete answer, doesn't belive it, insists they provide him with more evidence, and they say - no, you've got enough with a subtext of "we don't want to waste any more of our time on your nonsense"

I'd forgotten the aspect that the pipes can be "indicators" - a leak may occur somewhere not visible, they put in a pipe to drain THAT location - so if there is a leak it becomes visible.
Read it again. The Airbus guy wrote that there were no drains on the pylon.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Oops - you are right - I was readins "nacelle drain mast" as a pylon drain.

It still doesn't say what he says it says tho of course - there are certainly no fuel drain masts on the pylons - but that doesn't mean there are no drains!

I also still think the final refusal to engage probably indicates "don't feed the trolls".
 

skephu

Senior Member.
I'm not sure if somebody already linked this, but here's Chapter 54 of the A319/A320/A321 Aircraft Maintenance Manual which describes the pylon and the nacelle on Scribd (an 1027-page document!).

It describes the pylon drain system, the various inspection procedures, and even how to replace the drain pipes, with a number of detailed drawings.
Unfortunately this huge document is difficult to handle, but if you enter "drain" into the text search on Scribd, it will find all pages where drain is mentioned.

For example:

 

Efftup

Senior Member.
To be fair to Ian Simpson here, if these emails are genuine, then (although it would certainly be helpful to know What email he actually sent them in the first place) they did tell him that as standard they are fitted with a drain in the nacelle but none in the pylons. I can understand someone with a conspiracy mindset also thinking it suspicious that they suddenly clammed up when asked for more information.
I suspect that they found out WHO he was and how he would spin anything they told him anyway and decided it was no further use to keep communicating.

If these extra pipes seen on Easy jet planes etc ARE added by the engine manufacturer, I am surprised they didn't say so. they are fitted like this as standard, however different engine manufacturers may add more pipes in the pylon to suit their specifications.
 
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Efftup

Senior Member.
I'm not sure if somebody already linked this, but here's Chapter 54 of the A319/A320/A321 Aircraft Maintenance Manual which describes the pylon and the nacelle on Scribd (an 1027-page document!).

It describes the pylon drain system, the various inspection procedures, and even how to replace the drain pipes, with a number of detailed drawings.
Unfortunately this huge document is difficult to handle, but if you enter "drain" into the text search on Scribd, it will find all pages where drain is mentioned.

For example:

thanks for this. I was searching for something along these lines as I wasn't sure where Jay got his original pic from (the link in the OP doesn't seem to work)

This is of course the problem of a "communications person 2 who is not an engineer answering questions. to be thorough, he could have pointed out there were many drains all over the aircraft. There is a good video on youtube showing how to drain water from a little thing on the underside of the wing, for example.

As the hydraulic systems are also in there, is it possible some of these pipes are draining hydraulic fluid, should it leak?
 
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Efftup

Senior Member.
Having looked at all these schematics available it certainly appears to be hydraulics.
Page 41 of the pdf Skephu linked shows different compartments in the pylon separated from the main engine components with a fireproof wall. looking at what is in them and where the drains apparently are, it appears they will be drains for hydraulics.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
To be fair to Ian Simpson here, if these emails are genuine, then (although it would certainly be helpful to know What email he actually sent them in the first place) they did tell him that as standard they are fitted with a drain in the nacelle but none in the pylons. I can understand someone with a conspiracy mindset also thinking it suspicious that they suddenly clammed up when asked fro more information.
I suspect that they found out WHO he was and how he would spin anything they told him anyway and decided it was no further use to keep communicating.

If these extra pipes seen on Easy jet planes etc ARE added by the engine manufacturer, I am surprised they didn't say so. they are fitted like this as standard, however different engine manufacturers may add more pipes in the pylon to suit their specifications.
I agree on the face of it, but I think Ian's 1st email is the key.

Notice how focused the first reply is on leaking fuel and not other fluids, as if the responder is trying to reassure Ian, and that the response doesn't say there are no pylon drains, just that there are no fuel pylon drains. I would hazard a guess that what was actually asked was along these lines:-

"We've seen some pipes on the pylons on A320s that we suspect are used for spraying something. People have tried telling us they're for releasing fuel in the case of a leak, but surely releasing fuel into a hot engine exhaust would be extremely dangerous?"

Ian has raised that point several times, and clearly he didn't send one of his "smoking gun" pipe pictures, otherwise why would the response not reference them directly?

In his next reply he's off talking about using their emails in a court case so they were bound to run a mile, even if they hadn't "looked-up" what he was about.

The other option is as was said above, something was lost in translation between the PR guy and engineering. At the end of the day the pylon drains are clearly visible in Airbus' own construction videos, so they're definitely there when the planes are built.

Ray Von
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
I completely agree. The first reply very specifically mentions having no spray capacity and only discusses fuel.
Without seeing what he actually sent them it's very hard to tell. Of course, i am sure that is deliberate too.

I might just send them an email myself. but more general on the lines of, what are all those funny little pipes for? I'm sure they can't be exhaust pipes.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I'm sure they can't be exhaust pipes.

They vent....that's all...that is their sole function. They don't 'spray' of course....I mean....just look at the diameter!!!

Ian Simpson seems to be lacking a bit in many areas of knowledge, including the science of fluid dynamics....and of course, basic aviation knowledge, which include simple Weight & Balance considerations, not to also mention Performance and Limitations that ALL aircraft must abide by, merely because they operate here ON EARTH! Gravity!!! Yeah....gravity....that is the final 'arbiter' for us all.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
They vent....that's all...that is their sole function. They don't 'spray' of course....I mean....just look at the diameter!!!

Ian Simpson seems to be lacking a bit in many areas of knowledge, including the science of fluid dynamics....and of course, basic aviation knowledge, which include simple Weight & Balance considerations, not to also mention Performance and Limitations that ALL aircraft must abide by, merely because they operate here ON EARTH! Gravity!!! Yeah....gravity....that is the final 'arbiter' for us all.
well we know that. I was just wondering what Airbus would tell me if i just asked a question like that and didn;t mention spraying or anything nefarious
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
The latest from Ian Simpson. He is still working on the court case!


AND yet? No explanation from Ian Simpson as to how those tiny tubes (perhaps 1 cm in diameter...if that?) can produce such "huge" 'emissions'?

Further...."where" is the required tankage and associated plumbing ON any airliner to accomplish this "nefarious" so-called "spraying"? AND why is it not possible to check EACH and EVERY airlines' loading manifests for the proper Weight and Balance documentation? I mean...in order for EACH airliner to be dispatched for a flight...it MUST have proper manifests, including 'W & B' documentation. THIS IS IMPORTANT for elevator trim settings, just as a start.

Methinks that a better understanding of how airplanes operate might lead to a better understanding of why "chem"trails (as proposed by various persons) simply do not exist.
 

Lisa P

Active Member
At least Terry is trying to 'prove' ... something. I hope he isn't too proud to admit defeat when it comes. I do say good on him for trying it is better than just pointing at the clouds and saying 'they are killing us'. Also by going to the climate conferences and talking to the scientists etc. he may eventually see things clearer. I may not have faith in a god but I do have great faith in mankind.
I found this statement from Terry regarding his presentation to the scientists interesting
I thought it should be Terry is trying to convince atheists that a god exists. If that is impolite please remove it.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
At least Terry is trying to 'prove' ... something. I hope he isn't too proud to admit defeat when it comes. I do say good on him for trying it is better than just pointing at the clouds and saying 'they are killing us'. Also by going to the climate conferences and talking to the scientists etc. he may eventually see things clearer. I may not have faith in a god but I do have great faith in mankind.
I found this statement from Terry regarding his presentation to the scientists interesting
I thought it should be Terry is trying to convince atheists that a god exists. If that is impolite please remove it.
i think Ian said the Vatican quote. ?

not that it really matters in regards to your post, except that at the end of the page (it seems) Ian says "“If you can’t see what’s going on you are being paid too much

So he might be a ways away from 'seeing the light' as it were. But you never know, a lot of things in life come as 'an epiphany'.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
Saw this related post on reddit at /r/aviation, by someone who says that he's an A320 mechanic. He makes the distinction that the pipes do not drain the pylon, but rather they drain from the engine and are routed through the pylon:
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Pylons however DO have piping going through them - fuel and hydraulic (assuming there are hydraulic pumps on the engine - AFAIK there always are) - and the connectors can leak!

ETA: Also on some engine/wing combinations (those where part of the engine is directly under the wing - ie the whole engine is not forward of it) you have "dry bays" just above the engine.

These are sections of the wing that are potentially in line to be hit by bits of a disintigrating engine, so are kept empty of fuel tankage - these probably also drain through the pylons.

Eg see a bunch of results from a google search for wing dry bay

This image shows one such arrangement:

 
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Efftup

Senior Member.
Well done Ian!! When you can't handle the truth, just bury it so you can keep your followers in the dark.
Glad to see you are still keeping up your usual rigorous standard.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
BINGO! Someone posted the link to the manual today on the Look-up.org.uk facebook page. Ian Simpson simply deleted it.

Maybe the key is to just post something like that without implying that it shows him wrong. Maybe just say: "MORE PROOF" on it and let him puzzle out what it really shows.:D
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
BINGO! Someone posted the link to the manual today on the Look-up.org.uk facebook page. Ian Simpson simply deleted it.
He refers to it as the "Metabunk image", although it has nothing to do with this site. It's quite clear that he knows he's lying now.

image.jpg
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Yes well remember on his website he says that the image he got from EASA was supplied to them by Metabunk, so this is just a continuation of demonising Metabunk as the source of all evil and the driving force behind chemtrails......


Untitled.jpg
 
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skephu

Senior Member.
Well, the Maintenance Manual was uploaded to Scribd in November 2010, three years before Ian Simpson came up with his claim about those tubes and before this topic was started on Metabunk. Also, you could fake a single image but it would be quite hard to fake an 1027-page document.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
I emailed Airbus, initially through their info@airbus.com address, then directly to Jason Impey after I didn't receive a reply. I enclosed one of Ian's pictures as an example.



Here's the reply I got back from Robert Gage:
The image Robert attached is from Aircraft Maintenance Engineering-Mechanical and dated February 1st 2011.

Ian's confusion seems to stem from Airbus using the technical definitions of nacelle and pylon, the difference appearing to be that the pylon is what supports the engine, the nacelle is just the covering around it.

Regardless, this does make it clear that the replies Ian received were explaining the same pipes that he referred (and continues to refer) to as "spray pipes".

Ray Von
 

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