Debunked: Foley's Sister Katie Foley vs Lanza's Friend Alex Israel [Not the Same Person]

Redwood

Active Member

Hevach

Senior Member.
Note how none of those change the spacing of the eyes, even that very impressive surgery isn't sufficient to account for the differences between Foley and Israel.

Nonetheless, those are procedures that take multiple surgeries and months of recuperation. Foley and Israel have appeared on TV not only within days of each other, but have alternated appearances, meaning to both be the same person requires not only performing but also undoing and redoing the procedure repeatedly with minimal recuperation time.

And even assuming they have a miracle plastic surgery team of Bones McCoy and the guy from Grey's Anatomy on standby, they've appeared together (see picture above). Last time I checked we don't live in a comic book universe, so I think we can cross off time travel, magic, shape shifters, and Aquaman. Which leaves us with the most disappointingly mundane answer: They're different people.
 

Gary Caine

New Member
I dont know about the opening statement. Maybe it was a figure of speech. Few if anybody thinks every news story of such importance is fake with Crisis actors. That's is surely getting in to broader issues which I seem banned from commenting on. I would imagine some are fake. The circumstances on a broader level are certainly very suspect but thanks for this article. It was helpful to help my friends who were becoming a bit paranoid about this. I believed it myself for awhile untill I looked in to other evidence rather than just Youtube videos. They do look and sound similar in the video but thats personal perception. I dont know how anybody can say that to be wrong.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I dont know about the opening statement. Maybe it was a figure of speech. Few if anybody thinks every news story of such importance is fake with Crisis actors.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
I dont know about the opening statement. Maybe it was a figure of speech. Few if anybody thinks every news story of such importance is fake with Crisis actors. That's is surely getting in to broader issues which I seem banned from commenting on. I would imagine some are fake. The circumstances on a broader level are certainly very suspect but thanks for this article. It was helpful to help my friends who were becoming a bit paranoid about this. I believed it myself for awhile untill I looked in to other evidence rather than just Youtube videos. They do look and sound similar in the video but thats personal perception. I dont know how anybody can say that to be wrong.
Just as "some" can not conceive how anyone could look at the evidence and believe that these 2 are the same person.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Someone here wondered why they would use the same actress? The real question is "why wouldn't they"?

Because it's logically fallible? It makes no logical sense to use the SAME actress and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on plastic surgury just so she can go on TV later on and be bloody identified by EVERYBODY. The whole point of a conspiracy is to HIDE the damned thing in the first place. How in the wide world of sports can a government who's supposed to be setting up all these false flags.. going through ALLLLL of these elaborate steps and measures to fool all of us sheeple into thinking something's real when its a fake, just to take our minds off of whatever they want to distract us from, be so bloody stupid? They're going to spend BILLIONS of dollars setting all this stuff up, just to screw up and put a "crisis actor" on TV that can be easily identified. Really? If they have all these hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people at their disposal to help them conduct these fakeries.. why recycle actors? You've got a MASSIVE pool to pull from. Either they're good enough and smart enough to set all this crap up logistically to have it pulled off without a hitch to fool everyone, or they're too freaking stupid to do anything right. You cant have it both ways.
 

Redwood

Active Member
I wish that both Jeff Bauman and Nick Vogt show up at the trial of Dzokar Tsarnaev. Conspiracist heads would explode.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Because it's logically fallible? It makes no logical sense to use the SAME actress and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on plastic surgury just so she can go on TV later on and be bloody identified by EVERYBODY. The whole point of a conspiracy is to HIDE the damned thing in the first place. How in the wide world of sports can a government who's supposed to be setting up all these false flags.. going through ALLLLL of these elaborate steps and measures to fool all of us sheeple into thinking something's real when its a fake, just to take our minds off of whatever they want to distract us from, be so bloody stupid? They're going to spend BILLIONS of dollars setting all this stuff up, just to screw up and put a "crisis actor" on TV that can be easily identified. Really? If they have all these hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people at their disposal to help them conduct these fakeries.. why recycle actors? You've got a MASSIVE pool to pull from. Either they're good enough and smart enough to set all this crap up logistically to have it pulled off without a hitch to fool everyone, or they're too freaking stupid to do anything right. You cant have it both ways.

I think I pointed this out before, but I'll say it again: Getting actors is cheap. California and New York are both just full of aspiring actors who spend a lifetime working at coffee shops or shoe stores and spend decades trying to get discovered.

Getting some injury makeup and doing some TV interviews is a lot better than some of the stuff these actors have done for money and the vague promise of discovery. The amateur porn industry has proven these people to be an infinite and inexhaustible source of unknown faces willing to do terrible and degrading work they can never put on a resume for next to no money.

If a guy walking through Central Park with a handful of crumpled 20 dollar bills and a video camera can do it, a massively funded intelligence operation can sure as **** do it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think I pointed this out before, but I'll say it again: Getting actors is cheap. California and New York are both just full of aspiring actors who spend a lifetime working at coffee shops or shoe stores and spend decades trying to get discovered.

Hiring actors is not the issue. The issue is covering up that you are hiring actors to portray real people. Like in this case. Even if these were two different "actors", how exactly is it supposed to work?
 

Redwood

Active Member
Hiring actors is not the issue. The issue is covering up that you are hiring actors to portray real people. Like in this case. Even if these were two different "actors", how exactly is it supposed to work?

Yes! Nobody ever comes forward and says, "Hey, I knew him! We went to college together! We were members of Drama Club! We did 'Barefoot in the Park' together! Boy, was he ever a bad actor! But his name wasn't X, it was Z!"

Maybe, everyone who ever knew these putative actors has been bribed into silence? In which case, this is the most expensive, complicated conspiracy ever, just to hire a bad actor! :rolleyes:
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
I think I pointed this out before, but I'll say it again: Getting actors is cheap. California and New York are both just full of aspiring actors who spend a lifetime working at coffee shops or shoe stores and spend decades trying to get discovered.

Getting some injury makeup and doing some TV interviews is a lot better than some of the stuff these actors have done for money and the vague promise of discovery. The amateur porn industry has proven these people to be an infinite and inexhaustible source of unknown faces willing to do terrible and degrading work they can never put on a resume for next to no money.

If a guy walking through Central Park with a handful of crumpled 20 dollar bills and a video camera can do it, a massively funded intelligence operation can sure as **** do it.

Logically, yes you're right Hevach.. but the problem is it negates the secrecy.. the WHOLE idea behind a conspiracy is to hide the event.. why would you hire an actor who could/would potentially then turn around and blow the lid off the whole thing OR go on national friggin TV and blow the whole thing unintentionally.. from an intelligence point of view its insane, and logistically (as Redwood pointed out) its equally insane. All the money lost by the government in the last few years wouldnt come CLOSE to being able to cover the expenses thatd be required to keep it quiet for this and EVERY OTHER False Flag with Crisis actors EVER. That was my point above. Occam's Razor my friend.. the most simple and least complex answer is most often times the solution. The fewer points of failure you have in a system the less chance you have of something breaking. So you still end up with the situation being that either the government is incredibly intelligent and has the ability to pull off these massive hoaxes to fool the world and the country.. or they're so stupid that theyd allow these same crisis actors theyve used in hoaxes to end up on TV AFTER they're dead. You cant have both.. it has to be one or the other.
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
I think I pointed this out before, but I'll say it again: Getting actors is cheap. California and New York are both just full of aspiring actors who spend a lifetime working at coffee shops or shoe stores and spend decades trying to get discovered.

Getting some injury makeup and doing some TV interviews is a lot better than some of the stuff these actors have done for money and the vague promise of discovery. The amateur porn industry has proven these people to be an infinite and inexhaustible source of unknown faces willing to do terrible and degrading work they can never put on a resume for next to no money.

If a guy walking through Central Park with a handful of crumpled 20 dollar bills and a video camera can do it, a massively funded intelligence operation can sure as **** do it.
No offense, Hev, but this is a textbook example of the Ignoratio elenchi fallacy,
in which one provides evidence, but not evidence that actually addresses the issue:

Yes, the coasts are lousy with wanna-be actors "willing to do terrible and degrading work"
(like Sharknado 3: The Sharkening?), but you haven't offered anything remotely persuasive about how it would be sensible,
cost effective, or even possible to have one person repeatedly portray two different supposed victims...
which is the issue at hand: that Foley & Israel are actually the same human.
 

jonnyH

Senior Member.
Yes, the coasts are lousy with wanna-be actors "willing to do terrible and degrading work"
(like Sharknado 3: The Sharkening?), but you haven't offered anything remotely persuasive about how it would be sensible,
cost effective, or even possible to have one person repeatedly portray two different supposed victims...

@Hevach can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that is the position he is advocating. I understood the point he was making, in response to posts discussing the plausibility of cosmetic surgery, to be that any conspirators would have no need to have actors portray two different people because desperate actors are readily available.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
@Hevach can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that is the position he is advocating. I understood the point he was making, in response to posts discussing the plausibility of cosmetic surgery, to be that any conspirators would have no need to have actors portray two different people because desperate actors are readily available.

Correct. The question being addressed was:
Someone here wondered why they would use the same actress? The real question is "why wouldn't they"? Don't many directors cast the same actors and actresses in a lot of their films? Also, casting the same people, in the case of false flags, minimizes the risk of someone possibly 'fessin up. Why cast the different people every time? If I masterminded a false flag I would make sure to sometimes "cast" some of the previous actors I've used, who by then have underwent drastic plastic surgery and maybe some brainwashing as a bonus.

The claims here have nothing to do with costs or the impossibility of the surgeries required. They are that the safe way to fill multiple roles without somebody admitting to the role or claiming credit is to reuse the same actors, regardless of the costs or difficulties.

Costs do not fully answer that claim, particularly when the force behind it is a government with access to a vast line of credit carrying interest rates lower than inflation. If this were possible, the US Government could afford to do it, at least in the short term (keeping it up as long and as often as the theory claims they have would start getting hard to hide, but a couple operations here or there could be hidden in the costs of a supercarrier or one of the occasional warships that goes straight from the shipyard to the salvage yard).

Difficulties only partially answer it, because the built in assumption is "regardless of the difficulties."

The fact that it is, indeed, very easy to fill multiple roles with multiple actors and have none of them wanting to take credit for the work, however, does answer the point in its entirety.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The fact that it is, indeed, very easy to fill multiple roles with multiple actors and have none of them wanting to take credit for the work, however, does answer the point in its entirety.

Very easy? How do you prevent them being recognized? Are they raised from childbirth in underground bases? Are their brains wiped clean after each use?

More importantly, is there any evidence at all that this is happening? One might equally say it is "very easy" for the government to abduct children and turn them into food for the elite. But why would you?
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Correct. The question being addressed was:


The claims here have nothing to do with costs or the impossibility of the surgeries required. They are that the safe way to fill multiple roles without somebody admitting to the role or claiming credit is to reuse the same actors, regardless of the costs or difficulties.

Costs do not fully answer that claim, particularly when the force behind it is a government with access to a vast line of credit carrying interest rates lower than inflation. If this were possible, the US Government could afford to do it, at least in the short term (keeping it up as long and as often as the theory claims they have would start getting hard to hide, but a couple operations here or there could be hidden in the costs of a supercarrier or one of the occasional warships that goes straight from the shipyard to the salvage yard).

Difficulties only partially answer it, because the built in assumption is "regardless of the difficulties."

The fact that it is, indeed, very easy to fill multiple roles with multiple actors and have none of them take credit for the work does.
Okay, well maybe I'm missing something here...but don't people who undergo repeated plastic surgery
(a la Michael Jackson)--even if provided virtually unlimited financing--eventually break down? I mean, human
skin can not just be worked and re-worked endlessly without consequence. Are we seriously suggesting
that an "Alex Israel" could be made into a "Katie Foley" and then back into an "Alex Israel"
and then back into a "Katie Foley" and then back into an "Alex Israel" convincingly, over and over,
for every public appearance?
I still don't buy it as a strategy, it seems like about the dumbest approach anyone could take, putting the
same human on television over and over...but beyond that it just seems obviously physically impossible.

p.s. But, other than that...yes, very easy. :)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Okay, well maybe I'm missing something here...but don't people who undergo repeated plastic surgery
(a la Michael Jackson)--even if provided virtually unlimited financing--eventually break down? I mean, human
skin can not just be worked and re-worked endlessly without consequence. Are we seriously suggesting
that an "Alex Israel" could be made into a "Katie Foley" and then back into an "Alex Israel"
and then back into a "Katie Foley" and then back into an "Alex Israel" convincingly, over and over,
for every public appearance?
I still don't buy it as a strategy, it seems like about the dumbest approach anyone could take, putting the
same human on television over and over...but beyond that it just seems obviously physically impossible.

p.s. But, other than that...yes, very easy. :)
you're confusing my brain. hevach isn't talking about one actor playing multiple roles. (that said, inspector cluseau did it in the pink panther movies :p
 

Jason

Senior Member
More importantly, is there any evidence at all that this is happening? One might equally say it is "very easy" for the government to abduct children and turn them into food for the elite. But why would you?
There's no evidence it is happening, but I don't think Hevach is implying that the government is actually doing this. He is making a point that it is possible, if they so wished to do so.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Okay, well maybe I'm missing something here...but don't people who undergo repeated plastic surgery
(a la Michael Jackson)--even if provided virtually unlimited financing--eventually break down?
Barbara Walters rings a bell. She probably had more stuff done to her the MJ, and she looked great for her age..

Correction: meant Joan Rivers
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There's no evidence it is happening, but I don't think Hevach is implying that the government is actually doing this. He is making a point that it is possible, if they so wished to do so.

But is it "very easy" to do multiple times, and nobody ever figures it out?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
. He is making a point that it is possible, if they so wished to do so.
I could be wrong, but I don't think his point is it IS possible to do.

I'm reading him as saying it's a more realistic hypothetical conspiracy meme than the hypothetical conspiracy meme saying all crisis actors are the same person with plastic surgery.
 

Jason

Senior Member
I could be wrong, but I don't think his point is it IS possible to do.

I'm reading him as saying it's a more realistic hypothetical conspiracy meme than the hypothetical conspiracy meme saying all crisis actors are the same person with plastic surgery.
It seems like we all have a different interpretation of what he is trying to say, LoL.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Barbara Walters rings a bell. She probably had more stuff done to her the MJ, and she looked great for her age..
So you're saying Barbara Walters became Elizabeth Hasselbeck, then back to Barbara Walters, then back
to Elizabeth Hasselbeck then back to Barbara Walters over and over? Okay...well now I get it! :D
 

Jason

Senior Member
But is it "very easy" to do multiple times, and nobody ever figures it out?
Honestly that would be a better question for a plastic surgeon. What "we" think about plastic surgery deals with Hollywood elite or LA housewives, and its usually easily detectable because they are making improvements that deal with looking younger or looking prettier. Can the procedure be repeated over and over again without deterioration, I don't know, but my gut tells me if they have the money and the means anything is possible. But I don't think this is happening..
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Honestly that would be a better question for a plastic surgeon. What "we" think about plastic surgery deals with Hollywood elite or LA housewives, and its usually easily detectable because they are making improvements that deal with looking younger or looking prettier. Can the procedure be repeated over and over again without deterioration, I don't know, but my gut tells me if they have the money and the means anything is possible. But I don't think this is happening..

By "it" here I mean use actors once, not re-use them.

Where do the actors come from, and where to do they go, so that nobody ever recognizes them, and they never talk?

Loners have nothing to lose from deathbed confessions. Family people will get recognized.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
It seems like we all have a different interpretation of what he is trying to say, LoL.

Yours and Diedre's are both basically right.

My point, to put it bluntly, is that there is an industry is already doing this, and that by and large, identification is a limited concern for everyone involved.

Most people who have been part of the process deal with nothing worse than a couple awkward or creepy, "Hey didn't I see you in a video?" encounters in their lifetime. A very few have a coworker or student pass the link around the office. In both cases, mistaken identity happens much more often than correct identity, so there's a degree of plausible deniability. Money and shame do the rest.

When it's less scandalous material involved, it's never really notable, many people totally look like some celebrity or other, and while it's a kind of surreal event the first time you and your family see your doppleganger on TV, it's ultimately something that gets dismissed.



PS: Everybody can feel free to go on pretending they don't know I'm talking about porn. I fix computers for a living, I know how porn denial works.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
My point, to put it bluntly, is that there is an industry is already doing this, and that by and large, identification is a limited concern for everyone involved.

ok maybe I was wrong...

no. they would be recognized by someone. esp one with as much exposure as Foley.

the star girl on "Lost" was the 1900chatline girl and I recognized her. and even if she wasn't the 900chatline girl, her family and friends would recognize her.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
My point, to put it bluntly, is that there is an industry is already doing this, and that by and large, identification is a limited concern for everyone involved.

People acting in porn under pseudonyms is very different to shadowy powers using actors to fake news and never getting caught.

Acting in porn is legal (if socially frowned upon), making fake news (of the kind we are talking about here - Sandy Hook, etc.) is fraud, possibly treason.

The majority of porn has limited audiences. The supposedly "fake" news is seen by millions, and a broader demographic, including children. They would get recognized by someone.

If someone recognizes someone in a porn film they have very little incentive to expose them, but if they discovered someone faking the news, then that's a huge incentive to expose them.

People get "caught" in porn all the time. When was the last time a US government actor was outed?

Porn actors are happy to let their murk past slip away, and nobody is really interested, but fake news would be a major story that the regretful actor could later expose as redemption. Why would people take that risk?
 

JDubyah

Member
If this is true, then it's possible Robin Williams is not dead.. could be that his death was faked to draw people's attention away from some other shady government agenda at the time. He's obviously just Bono, and Bono's been imitating Robin Williams for years now. Or the dual life was interfering with Bono's music career and activism, so he decided to 'kill off' his Robin Williams persona.

See how easy this is? Of course they're not the same, but that's easy to say with famous people. When it's little known folks like the girls mentioned in this thread, it's harder to track down. And honestly, I hope no one does, because no one wants this kind of CT attention.

 

JDubyah

Member
Yours and Diedre's are both basically right.

My point, to put it bluntly, is that there is an industry is already doing this, and that by and large, identification is a limited concern for everyone involved.

Most people who have been part of the process deal with nothing worse than a couple awkward or creepy, "Hey didn't I see you in a video?" encounters in their lifetime. A very few have a coworker or student pass the link around the office. In both cases, mistaken identity happens much more often than correct identity, so there's a degree of plausible deniability. Money and shame do the rest.

When it's less scandalous material involved, it's never really notable, many people totally look like some celebrity or other, and while it's a kind of surreal event the first time you and your family see your doppleganger on TV, it's ultimately something that gets dismissed.



PS: Everybody can feel free to go on pretending they don't know I'm talking about porn. I fix computers for a living, I know how porn denial works.


Do this Google Search: https://www.google.ca/search?q=porn...7.7592j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
Correct. The question being addressed was:


The claims here have nothing to do with costs or the impossibility of the surgeries required. They are that the safe way to fill multiple roles without somebody admitting to the role or claiming credit is to reuse the same actors, regardless of the costs or difficulties.

Costs do not fully answer that claim, particularly when the force behind it is a government with access to a vast line of credit carrying interest rates lower than inflation. If this were possible, the US Government could afford to do it, at least in the short term (keeping it up as long and as often as the theory claims they have would start getting hard to hide, but a couple operations here or there could be hidden in the costs of a supercarrier or one of the occasional warships that goes straight from the shipyard to the salvage yard).

Difficulties only partially answer it, because the built in assumption is "regardless of the difficulties."

The fact that it is, indeed, very easy to fill multiple roles with multiple actors and have none of them wanting to take credit for the work, however, does answer the point in its entirety.

The issue though Hevach is that there will STILL be a papertrail, and regardless of what industry the actors are in people will follow the money.. money plays a HUGE part of it. If you're going to commit to something like this it has GOT to be done in a way that can NOT be followed back to the source or you negate the entire operation. Hence the absolute sheer stupidity of using actors. Someone, SOMEWHERE will talk ESPECIALLY if they can turn a buck on it.

You're talking about using people who are desperate enough to take ANY acting job they're given, regardless of the moral consequences. If they're THAT desperate and THAT hungry, that they're willing to put their own morals aside, then what in the name of the wild world of shorts is going to stop them from going to the media and blowing the whole story wide open? If they're morally reprehensible enough to try to pull off a Sandy Hook, or the Boston Bombing, or 9/11 or god knows what else, then they're not going to keep their mouths shut when they can make billions of the book and movie rights let ALONE star in their own movie.. be it made for TV or a full feature film.

So you're still left with TWO options. 1) The government is clever enough to set all this up and totally secret, or 2) they're stupid enough to hire people with no moral compass who will blow their secret open the moment they get a chance. The government is either highly intelligent or completely stupid.. you can not have it both ways, and thats the entire point of ALL of this. You can NOT have a government that can put all this together and yet be stupid enough to hire actors that are going to blow their operation open.
 

Wedge

New Member
I find this entire CT claim to be beyond absurd for a couple of other reasons.

First, if they hired an "actor" to play one of these victims, parents....what have you, wouldn't it make being an actor in the future for the individual almost impossible? Why would anyone who really wanted to be an actor, agree to such an absurd proposition.

Second, this assumes that actors (people with family and friends in the real world) have no morals whatsoever. They are just willing to lie, cheat and deceive the American people, in some really despicable acts. Does that really sound plausible?

Third, aren't the chances of these "actors" being recognized by their family and friends in this high-profile events highly likely....and don't you think some of the those people would have come out to expose the scam?

One has to leave all reasoning, logic and critical thinking skills at the door to believe "actors".
 
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