Debunked: FEMA Coffins (plastic grave liners)

Gumpi

New Member
"They're burial liners, not coffins guys", as if a big box that goes in the ground around a coffin cannot be used as a coffin itself. In fact, I'm sure you could fit four or five bodies in one of those. So, based on the 2 sites of these burial liners, 50,000 each, 100,000 x 4= 400,000 potential bodies, if this is indeed what they're used for. In the case of a mass murder, this would allow them to hide what they are doing for quite some time. You give your government too much credit, they don't give a single shit about any of you. And anyone who says that they wouldn't spend money to do it, why do you think that only one company has such a massive stockpile outside, that magically disappeared as soon as people started questioning what they were for? Think about the Bush administration, sending thousands of soldiers to their deaths to help make their Saudi buddies rich. Do you think that the government wouldn't pick out a company to make rich? If you want a connection between FEMA and Vantage, look at the past of the Vantage owners (which, coincidentally, I was unable to find a name of). [...]
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Why wouldn't they simply bury people in a mass grave?

It's quite clear they are grave liners. They stockpile them for the same reason they stockpile anything (like sewer pipes, see the OP). It's cheaper than making them one at a time.

Not trusting the government should not mean you automatically trust Alex Jones.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
A mass grave or a large crematorium would make more sense.

Most conspiracy theories fall apart if you look deeper and think about it. Why would you stockpile 'coffins' even multi body ones, when you can dig a trench --when and where you need it---and but many more bodies in it? or if you planning ahead, you do what the Nazis did.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
"They're burial liners, not coffins guys", as if a big box that goes in the ground around a coffin cannot be used as a coffin itself. In fact, I'm sure you could fit four or five bodies in one of those. So, based on the 2 sites of these burial liners, 50,000 each, 100,000 x 4= 400,000 potential bodies, if this is indeed what they're used for. In the case of a mass murder, this would allow them to hide what they are doing for quite some time.
They would do the exact opposite - they would identify the remains - the containers would be a giveaway since they are designed to not rot away.

So not much use for any secret programme at all!
 

Bill

Senior Member.
"They're burial liners, not coffins guys", as if a big box that goes in the ground around a coffin cannot be used as a coffin itself. In fact, I'm sure you could fit four or five bodies in one of those. So, based on the 2 sites of these burial liners, 50,000 each, 100,000 x 4= 400,000 potential bodies, if this is indeed what they're used for. In the case of a mass murder, this would allow them to hide what they are doing for quite some time. You give your government too much credit, they don't give a single shit about any of you. And anyone who says that they wouldn't spend money to do it, why do you think that only one company has such a massive stockpile outside, that magically disappeared as soon as people started questioning what they were for? Think about the Bush administration, sending thousands of soldiers to their deaths to help make their Saudi buddies rich. Do you think that the government wouldn't pick out a company to make rich? If you want a connection between FEMA and Vantage, look at the past of the Vantage owners (which, coincidentally, I was unable to find a name of). [...]
1) What makes you think they no longer keep liners in stock.

2) It's not hard to find information on Vantage Products Corporation:
Vantage Prducts Corp Registration.PNG
VPC .PNG
You need to put out a little more effort.
 
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Bill

Senior Member.
1) What makes you think they no longer keep liners in stock.

2) It's not hard to find information on Vantage Products Corporation:
View attachment 4839
View attachment 4840
You need to put out a little more effort.
It also wasn't hard to track down information on the men. All 60 plus years old. Publicly listed addresses and phone numbers. No secrets here, just men that created a successful business and are probably surprised to find that their company has become a target of conspiracy theories.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
A grave liner is a simple concrete box with a lid. -------http://www.nosek-mccreery.com/State_Law_Burial_Vaults.html ------------- ----- Most state laws do not require a vault or liner--------http://www.peopleslawyer.net/legal-topics/funerals.html --------------- there is no need for so many , but besides that the government does not have any reason to be purchasing
The government was not purchasing them. They were just stored in a field by the manufacturer. As shown in the OP, grave liners are often plastic. Usage requirement varies with cemeteries, as your link says. See here for confirmation:

http://www.casketdiscount.com/vantage vault.html
 

Bill

Senior Member.
A grave liner is a simple concrete box with a lid. -------http://www.nosek-mccreery.com/State_Law_Burial_Vaults.html------------- ----- Most state laws do not require a vault or liner--------http://www.peopleslawyer.net/legal-topics/funerals.html--------------- there is no need for so many , but besides that the government does not have any reason to be purchasing
1) Not all grave liners are concrete. You can visit their product offerings on their website.
http://www.vantageproducts.com/
2) Do you have some inside information on their client base or their production schedule? Do you know how long their products stay on the lot? If you can't answer these basic questions you cant say there is no need for so many because you really don't know.
3) Just because they are not required by law does not mean they are not used.
4) You haven't presented any evidence that the government is purchasing them but if they are I can see them purchasing them for funerals they may feel obligated to provide.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The liner goes around a coffin, yes? So I guess it's because the coffin would eventually collapse?
Yes. The liner has a base (usually mistaken as a lid) that sits on the bottom of the grave, then the liner goes on top of that. As it's airtight (except around the base, which is not important), then it basically keeps whatever is in there protected from the weight above, and from rising ground water (take a glass, upside down,and put it into water - the inside of the glass will remain dry).

Here's a cut-away. Notice the thick base, and coffin raised up a few inches. The curved top and the structural ribs transfer the load of the soil above down to the base.


Waste of time if you ask me. An American cultural artifact. Just put some extra soil on top of the grave to allow for settling.
 

Bill

Senior Member.
Yes. The liner has a base (usually mistaken as a lid) that sits on the bottom of the grave, then the liner goes on top of that. As it's airtight (except around the base, which is not important), then it basically keeps whatever is in there protected from the weight above, and from rising ground water (take a glass, upside down,and put it into water - the inside of the glass will remain dry).

Here's a cut-away. Notice the thick base, and coffin raised up a few inches. The curved top and the structural ribs transfer the load of the soil above down to the base.


Waste of time if you ask me. An American cultural artifact. Just put some extra soil on top of the grave to allow for settling.
The American funeral industry is constantly being criticized for selling a lot of overpriced services and products at a time when their clients are most vulnerable.
 

roro

New Member
So, why does patent states they are cremation containers? Since you don,t cremate and bury in a large spot. It seems to me that some people are not reading
the patent description. There are containers for coffins, but this one is for cremation.
explain that!
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
So, why does patent states they are cremation containers? Since you don,t cremate and bury in a large spot. It seems to me that some people are not reading
the patent description. There are containers for coffins, but this one is for cremation.
explain that!
Which patent are you talking about? This thread contains plenty of evidence that debunks the claim pretty comprehensively.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
So, why does patent states they are cremation containers? Since you don,t cremate and bury in a large spot. It seems to me that some people are not reading
the patent description. There are containers for coffins, but this one is for cremation.
explain that!
It is too big to hold ashes and they definitely wouldn't burn someone in it since it is made of plastic and would melt making a mess in the cremation oven.
 

MacIII

New Member
Let me get this straight, I am going to spend how many of thousands of dollars on a casket designed to hold my rotting carcass under ground but there will also be the need to spend thousands for a plastic liner to contain the coffin and the juices from my rotting carcass? I would think that with he materials out there this day and age, There wouldn't be a need for a coffin liner. The coffin would suffice and be designed to do the job on it's own.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Let me get this straight, I am going to spend how many of thousands of dollars on a casket designed to hold my rotting carcass under ground but there will also be the need to spend thousands for a plastic liner to contain the coffin and the juices from my rotting carcass? I would think that with he materials out there this day and age, There wouldn't be a need for a coffin liner. The coffin would suffice and be designed to do the job on it's own.
I don't think the liners cost thousands. As has been pointed out in previous messages, in many areas the liners are required by law.

Edit: As Mick pointed out. Not required by law but required by cemeteries.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Let me get this straight, I am going to spend how many of thousands of dollars on a casket designed to hold my rotting carcass under ground but there will also be the need to spend thousands for a plastic liner to contain the coffin and the juices from my rotting carcass? I would think that with he materials out there this day and age, There wouldn't be a need for a coffin liner. The coffin would suffice and be designed to do the job on it's own.
Most coffins are made of wood, which decays in contact with damp soil.


Still, the requirements for grave liners are a mixture of practicality (preventing heavy machinery collapsing graves) and the American death industry upselling needless things (grave liners are not used in many countries).

The natural burial movement is opposed to them:
http://www.naturalburialcompany.com/2009/01/natural-caskets.html
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Actually Mick, I believe most coffins are now steel. Stamped, welded, and painted much like car bodies. Of course there are still wood coffins, but they are WAAAAAY more expensive than even fancy steel models.

Personally, if I hadn't made other arrangements (cremation and burial at sea off a Navy ship) I'd request a natural burial which is available in some states. Body in the ground and a sapling planted above=happy permanent camper.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Actually Mick, I believe most coffins are now steel. Stamped, welded, and painted much like car bodies. Of course there are still wood coffins, but they are WAAAAAY more expensive than even fancy steel models.
I did not know that. Still, steel does not fare very well in damp soil either. And it's probably structurally weaker. Check this out (unless you suffer from claustrophobia).
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/buried-alive-minimyth.htm

Metal coffins don't seem to be vastly cheaper than wood, around the $1,000 range.
http://www.overnightcaskets.com/18-gauge-metal/?sort=bestselling
 

Jason

Senior Member
I know Jewish cemeteries don't allow metal caskets because they would retard the natural processes and this would not be keeping with Halacha (Jewish law). Instead they opt for the simple pine box, and the body is wrapped in a white cloth (shroud). Some progressive rabbis however, do allow the deceased to buried in their clothing. They use a liner, but above earth to prevent cave ins. The liner has holes in it which allow earth to pass through it.
 

Bill

Senior Member.
Let me get this straight, I am going to spend how many of thousands of dollars on a casket designed to hold my rotting carcass under ground but there will also be the need to spend thousands for a plastic liner to contain the coffin and the juices from my rotting carcass? I would think that with he materials out there this day and age, There wouldn't be a need for a coffin liner. The coffin would suffice and be designed to do the job on it's own.
You can buy coffins made out of wicker, cloth or cardboard for much less that $1000. You just have to look around. Don't expect to find them at most funeral homes. The mark up on them isn't that great.
 

Jason

Senior Member
You can buy coffins made out of wicker, cloth or cardboard for much less that $1000. You just have to look around. Don't expect to find them at most funeral homes. The mark up on them isn't that great.
You can even bury loved ones on your property if the by laws permit it, which could save you significant money as well. I do wonder though, what happens when you sell a property that has someone buried on it if the wishes of the one buried were, to remain there forever.
 

MacIII

New Member
I thought most wood type coffins were used for cremations but I can understand religious reasoning for biodegradable coffins. I find it hard to believe that there are certain municipalities in this country stepping on those religious rights. I personally have never been to a funeral where a coffin was place into a plastic container before it was placed into a grave.
I'm not a follower of Alex Jones. I'm just questioning what I personally have never noticed and my son worked for a Cemetery for years.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
personally have never been to a funeral where a coffin was place into a plastic container before it was placed into a grave.
It varies by cemetery. I was just at the Mount Hope Cemetery in San Diego. I took this photo:


You can see them on Google:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mount Hope Cemetery/@32.7090312,-117.1116934,302m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x40d1e4b0f3494f0


These are concrete grave liners (burial vaults). These are put in the grave first without the lid, then the coffin is lowered in during or after the ceremony, then the lid is added later. This is a "top seal" vault. Different to the "Bell Liner" seen in the first post.

Mount Hope lists various type of vault/liner on their cost sheet, but it would suggest it's very common to have one or the other.
http://www.sandiego.gov/park-and-recreation/pdf/14mthopecemeteryfees.pdf

 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
These are concrete grave liners (burial vaults). These are put in the grave first without the lid, then the coffin is lowered in during or after the ceremony, then the lid is added later. This is a "top seal" vault. Different to the "Bell Liner" seen in the first post.
Suffice to say.......burial customs vary now (and have varied greatly for centuries). There are certainly some religious/cultural implications that surround each sort of "ceremony" in terms of how to deal with the deceased.

But as Mick West points out, there is also a business aspect, in many countries. (The USA in particular). I dealt with this a decade ago, when the mortuary tried to "up-charge" on the coffin for my father....and his estranged wife (third wife, no relation) was "buying in" to the whole sales pitch.

(EDIT): I will be cremated. My left-overs? They can be put anywhere, I don't really care. Unfortunately, there are ALSO laws that try to dictate the actual disposition of "cremains" too. An "urn" is typical (and lawful), but then the dispensing of the "cremains" into 'nature' (if one chooses such an action) is fraught with problems (various legal restrictions), in many jurisdictions.
 
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JeffreyNotGeoffrey

Active Member
Suffice to say.......burial customs vary now (and have varied greatly for centuries). There are certainly some religious/cultural implications that surround each sort of "ceremony" in terms of how to deal with the deceased.

But as Mick West points out, there is also a business aspect, in many countries. (The USA in particular). I dealt with this a decade ago, when the mortuary tried to "up-charge" on the coffin for my father....and his estranged wife (third wife, no relation) was "buying in" to the whole sales pitch.

(EDIT): I will be cremated. My left-overs? They can be put anywhere, I don't really care. Unfortunately, there are ALSO laws that try to dictate the actual disposition of "cremains" too. An "urn" is typical (and lawful), but then the dispensing of the "cremains" into 'nature' (if one chooses such an action) is fraught with problems (various legal restrictions), in many jurisdictions.

I have a memory of that scene in the Big Lebowski when they get a coffee tin to get the ashes, and of course Walter screws up the releasing of the ashes :)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
When my dad passed away almost a year ago, a cement vault was an option. Supposedly it kept the ground from collaspsing. We did not get one. My plans at the present are to be cremated and scattered overlooking the Sound at the beach I go to almost every day.

Regarding the plastic liners, I think it has something to do with formaldehyde getting into the groundwater.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I think that a non embalmed body can be buried with only a vault covering the top of the grave. Jewish and Muslim religious customs both want the body to return to the earth. The vault will prevent the grave from collapsing, this is needed when heavy tractors are used for mowing and such
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Nice try.... The patent for these coffins confirms that they are meant for the burial or cremation of bodies exposed to infectious diseases. You can read the patent here:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/17690179/Multi-Functional-Cremation-Container-For
Oh, Doob...seriously?

Did you actually read the 156 posts before yours?

So your theory is that while FEMA is mysteriously overseeing the mass extinction of Americans,
for some reason they also intend to stop and individually place FEMA victims into costly containers
to be individually incinerated...? Is that right?




p.s. Upon reflection, I must admit that I do take some comfort in the idea that my government, which is evidently going to ruthlessly murder me, will be so thoughtful re. my remains. :)
 
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occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
Why would the liners just be left out for anyone to see and photograph if this was for the intended purpose of mass graves?

Perhaps your outrage is misdirected - I'd be keen to know why FEMA aren't doing a better job of covering up such a grand conspiracy?? Surely their nefarious plans dictate more careful covering up of sensitive materials such as this? Tax payers should be demanding their money back at such a shoddily kept secret! I want my highly funded government agencies to put their conspiracy budgets to better use!

;)
 
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