Debunked: FEMA Coffins (plastic grave liners)

[Mick West]

[Update Oct 13 2014 - See here for the "Ebola Coffins" variation of this story]

The "FEMA Coffins" story is basically a misunderstanding of what these things were, stored in their thousands (although far less than suggested) in a field in Georgia:



They are actually not coffins or caskets, they are burial vaults (also known as grave liners, depending on how well they seal water out). A burial vault is something that a coffin goes in, and is not used for interring people by itself. It's used in several states in the US where ground subsidence is an issue in graveyards.

http://www.gormleyfuneralhome.com/products/burial-vaults.aspx (http://archive.is/568SX)


Some burial vaults are made of concrete:


But many are simply strong plastic, like those in the field, made by Vantage Products
http://vantageproducts.com/standard.html (http://archive.is/8csUl)


They fit over a regular coffin like this:


Since they are designed to withstand the elements for hundreds of years, the cheapest place to store them is a field. It's just a big outdoor warehouse. Vantage leased the field specifically to store this batch for centralized distribution. Here's the lease:


They just load a few pallets onto trucks and take them to wherever they are needed. This truck has 126 (9 piles of 14 liners)


There are lots of them because the funeral industry uses lots. 65,000 people die every year in Georgia alone. 2.5 Million people die every year in the US. Not all of them are buried, and not all burials use grave liners, and not all of them use this type, but that's still a lot of grave liners sold every year.

But how many could there actually be in that field? The conspiracy theorist claim 500,000. Well, a single vault is 3' by 8', so takes up 24 square feet. The field is about 500 feet long, 250 to 450 feet wide, and not totally filled, so let's say 500x250, that's 125,000 square feet, with a stack taking a minimum of 24 square feet, the most you could pack in would be 125000/24 = about 5200 stacks. At 14 per stack (as per the truck image) that's about 73,000. That's just basic science, you could not pack more than 100,000 into that field. (Vantage says around 80,000 at the peak, see below.).




The vaults are not there anymore, you can see the site in Google at 33.5657680, -83.4848390. The last of the grave liners were removed in around 2010. Vantage are probably using another location. Any old field will do. This particular field is about 150 yards. But here's an even bigger storage area of suspicious looking black objects:

But if you zoom in, you'll see it's just a bunch of sewer pipes:

Just like the burial vaults, it's a lot cheaper to store them outdoors than in a warehouse.


Vantage is aware of the conspiracy theory, and back in 2008, a local paper interviewed them about it:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120521010322/http://www.morgancountycitizen.com/?q=node/7524

Conspiracy or simply storage?

Submitted by editor on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 13:50.
Theories surface around vaults stored in Madison
By Kathryn Purcell

Managing Editor

Type in “Madison, GA” under Google’s Blog Search, and it shows up on the first page. Search “Madison, GA” on YouTube, and it’s the first video that shows up. Websites like Alex Jones’ Infowars.com and AboveTopSecret.com are talking about it.
As of late, some of these sources have started to link the government, particularly the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to rows and rows of black, plastic “coffins,” 500,000 to be exact, currently being stored outdoor in a field within the city limits of Madison.

Theories abound as to whether these are being stored near a major transportation hub (Atlanta) in an effort by the government to prepare for American victims of biological warfare, or whether they are being stored for a natural, or man-made, disaster. Even more sinister, some of these sources speculate that these “coffins” are part of a conspiracy on the part of the government that involves the institution of martial law, the separation of desirable and non-desirable citizens, according to government opinion, and the establishment of American concentration camps, some of which are currently functional, according to these sources.

“Yep, these are cheap plastic coffins. Hundreds of thousands of them. Don’t believe it? Why coffins? Why in the middle of Georgia?” the entry “Half a Million Plastic Coffins?” on Alex Jones’ Infowars.com, dated July 18, states. “Well, apparently the Government is expecting a half million people to die relatively soon, and the Atlanta Airport is a major airline traffic hub, probably the biggest in the country, which means Georgia is a prime base to conduct military operations and coordination. It is also the home of the CDC, the Center for Disease Control. I don’t want to alarm anyone, but usually you don’t buy 500,000 plastic coffins ‘just in case something happens,’ you buy them because you know something is going to happen. These air tight seal containers would be perfect to bury victims of plague or biological warfare in, wouldn’t they?”

While the origins of the theories are unclear, there are blog postings that date back to December 2007 (AboveTopSecret.com), although the majority of postings have come within the latter half of July.

And, according to Vantage Products Corporation Vice President of Operations Michael Lacey, that’s exactly when the calls started pouring in.

“It’s been going on for quite a while, about a week,” Lacey said.

Lacey maintains that the theories regarding the property, and what’s on it, aren’t quite accurate.

The “coffins” aren’t coffins at all, according to Lacey. Instead, they are burial vaults, “the outer container for caskets,” Lacey said, placed in the ground before the coffin to protect the coffin and maintain level ground above.

There are currently 50,000 of these burial vaults on the property, according to Lacey. As the vaults were placed on the site around 1997 or 1998, there may have been as many as 70,000 or 80,000 to begin with.

“It’s nowhere near the quantity they talk about on the Internet,” Lacey said.

This quantity of burial vaults, Vantage’s Standard Air Seal model in black, also the least expensive model and the most in-demand, was made to cater to what Lacey calls the funeral industry’s “pre-need.” This “pre-need” occurs when people make arrangements for their funeral before they actually pass away, so that the family doesn’t have to go through the perceived stress of making the arrangements. When these arrangements are made, the products are paid for; obviously, though, they are not yet needed.

So, Vantage stores the product until the person dies, and the product is needed.

Further, pallets of the burial vaults are moved truckloads at a time, as there is space for a palate at the [location/destination?]

Contrary to the beliefs of the theorists, then, the burial vaults aren’t owned by the government, or FEMA. Instead, they’re owned by individuals, or not yet sold.

“They’re not owned by any one individual, company or the government,” Lacey said.

Further, Vantage leases the land, located at 1200 Madison Industrial Boulevard, from Conyers Welding & Supply and has for four to five years, a fact confirmed by Conyers Welding & Supply. Conyers Welding & Supply took over the lease when the property was purchased from Robert Usury in 2000. Usury purchased the property in 1989, according to information provided by the Morgan County Tax Assessor’s Office and the Morgan County Online Public Property Portal.

The answer as to why the vaults are being stored in Madison? To put it simply, the Covington-based manufacturer got a good deal close to home.

“It was the most cost-effective place,” Lacey said.

Content from external source

Vantage now mostly stores them at the main facility at 960 Almon Rd Covington, GA 30014


[Update Oct 13 2014 - See here for the "Ebola Coffins" variation of this story]

 

[Unregistered]

[Admin: This is a spin-off thread from https://www.metabunk.org/posts/19041

Why? Why should "officials" make statements about every obscure theory? The theorists would not believe them, and for the vast majority of people it's obviously bunk.

Consider chemtrails. Official statements have been made about chemtrails. Yet the theory persists. So what purpose do these official statements serve? OF COURSE the army would tell you that they are not importing guillotines from China in order to behead Christians who won't succumb to the New World Order.

So do you not think an explanation, (from whomever), fema, manufacturers, owners, cdc etc regarding the mass storage of 'fema coffins'. If it was entirely plausible it would go a long way to undermining an alternate theory that they are for 'evil use'.

I would like to know there purpose but can find nothing substantive on the subject.

As this site's stated aim is to 'debunk', I would suggest this is an entirely effective way of accomplishing that.

 

[Mick West]

So do you not think an explanation, (from whomever), fema, manufacturers, owners, cdc etc regarding the mass storage of 'fema coffins'. If it was entirely plausible it would go a long way to undermining an alternate theory that they are for 'evil use'.

I would like to know there purpose but can find nothing substantive on the subject.

As this site's stated aim is to 'debunk', I would suggest this is an entirely effective way of accomplishing that.

I'm pretty such such an "official" explanation exists somewhere, given that Alex Jones has been harassing people over it. But it's just been ignored.

There are lots of grave liners because lots of people die every year and are buried in them (in some states they are required by law). They store them outside because it's cheap.

 

[Mick West]

Here you go, from 2009, ignored.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/4312850

4. Hundreds of thousands of plastic coffins

CLAIM: "500,000 plastic air-tight coffins in the middle of Atlanta Georgia. Apparently the Government is expecting a Half Million people to die relatively soon, and the Atlanta Airport is a major airline traffic hub, probably the biggest in the country, which means Georgia is a prime base to conduct military operations and coordination. It is also the home of the CDC, the Center for Disease Control. I don't want to alarm anyone, but usually you don't buy 500,000 plastic coffins 'just in case something happens,' you buy them because you know something is going to happen. These air tight seal containers would be perfect to bury victims of plague or biological warfare in, wouldn't they?"

FACT: The black polypropylene products purported to be coffins are grave liners, or burial vaults, manufactured by Convington, Ga.-based Vantage Products. (In this case, they are examples of the company's Standard Air Seal model.) The use of a burial vault, which prevents the collapse of cemetery ground and protects the casket, is a common requirement when a body is interred.

The filmed lot in Madison, Ga., is a Vantage storage facility. Of the 900,000 or so in-ground burials in the U.S. each year, a small percentage of those people prearranged their own caskets and vaults--which Vanguard holds at the storage facility until the appropriate time. According to company Vice President of Operations Michael Lacey, there are approximately 50,000 vaults in storage in Madison. "It's nowhere near the quantity they talk about on the Internet," he told the local Morgan County Citizen newspaper. Furthermore, Lacey has said the company maintains detailed records of product ownership and is audited annually, to insure all vaults are accounted for.

Read more: FEMA Camps - Debunking FEMA Camp Myths - Popular Mechanics

Content from external source

 

[Unregistered]

But it is weird.

No other nation on earth has them.

The American public themselves don't seem to recognise them and they are the ones allegedly buying them 'to protect their coffins from damage' or forced to buy them to 'protect the cemetery from collapsing'.

If we accept that thousands of people have 'pre bought', it still does not explain why they have been manufactured and stored thus incurring storage costs/problems, let alone giving rise to Armageddon theories.

Does anyone know how long they been around, how they came about, what laws are invoked to ensure usage... I mean, this is interesting stuff really.

 

[Mick West]

It seems to be pretty much an American cultural thing, starting with concrete grave liners (which you still get now) dating from the emergence of the (now billion dollar) funeral industry around the time of the Civil War. It's related to the usage of embalming, and super sealed caskets. It seems like a bit of a scam, as they are not really needed for anything. Their usage seems mostly a requirement of individual cemeteries, rather than law.

http://www.deathreference.com/En-Gh/Funeral-Industry.html#b

The foundation of the emergent industry was embalming, a practice that gained legitimacy during the post Civil War years. Although medical schools before the Civil War relied on various European methods of preserving dead bodies for instructional purposes, most Americans had no knowledge of the procedure and abhorred any "unnatural" intervention into the body's organic processes of decomposition. In antebellum America, the integrity of the dead body, even one disintegrating in the coffin, had to be preserved at all costs.

Content from external source

http://www.mnfuneralplanning.com/vaults-mausoleums

Burial liners are relatively modern concepts in the United States and are unheard of outside of this country. In Europe and other parts of the world, the earth is mounded over the grave to allow for settling. As the ground subsides over time, more soil is simply added to level off the ground. Some religious traditions discourage the use of liners because they slow down the return of the body to the earth. Green cemeteries, which offer natural burial, do not permit them for the same reason.Many American cemeteries, however, require graves to have an outer burial container in the form of a burial vault or grave liner. The enclosure is placed in the ground before burial and then the casket is lowered into it. The purpose is to prevent the ground from caving in as the casket deteriorates over time. Sunken ground not only presents a safety hazard for cemetery visitors, it also creates a nightmare for maintenance workers; mowing lawns and performing other grave maintenance are much easier when the ground is even.

Content from external source

Feb 1909 concrete burial vault:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-eADAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA169&dq="burial vault"&pg=PA169#v=onepage&q&f=false



1964 ad for concrete+asphalt burial vault
http://books.google.com/books?id=-lMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA86&dq="burial vault"&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q&f=false


The earliest mention I found of a plastic burial vault was this 1920 Canadian patent. (Actually, I think it's just a mistranslation of "ciment", which means cement, but was translated as plastic)
http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/204718/summary.html#View_Images


This 1957 Patent actually is Plastic
http://www.google.com/patents?id=yWFwAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false




And there are many other patents over the years:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&hl=en&q=plastic burial vault&btnG=

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

A Local Newspaper was wondering why this small village was so popular on Youtube and the truther-blogs in combination with, FEMA, death, and Concentration-Camps...

... and just asked the manufacturer:

And, according to Vantage Products Corporation Vice President of Operations Michael Lacey, that’s exactly when the calls started pouring in. “It’s been going on for quite a while, about a week,” Lacey said. Lacey maintains that the theories regarding the property, and what’s on it, aren’t quite accurate.


The “coffins” aren’t coffins at all, according to Lacey. Instead, they are burial vaults, “the outer container for caskets,” Lacey said, placed in the ground before the coffin to protect the coffin and maintain level ground above.


There are currently 50,000 of these burial vaults on the property, according to Lacey. As the vaults were placed on the site around 1997 or 1998, there may have been as many as 70,000 or 80,000 to begin with.


“It’s nowhere near the quantity they talk about on the Internet,” Lacey said.


This quantity of burial vaults, Vantage’s Standard Air Seal model in black, also the least expensive model and the most in-demand, was made to cater to what Lacey calls the funeral industry’s “pre-need.” This “pre-need” occurs when people make arrangements for their funeral before they actually pass away, so that the family doesn’t have to go through the perceived stress of making the arrangements. When these arrangements are made, the products are paid for; obviously, though, they are not yet needed.

So, Vantage stores the product until the person dies, and the product is needed.


Further, pallets of the burial vaults are moved truckloads at a time, as there is space for a palate at the

Contrary to the beliefs of the theorists, then, the burial vaults aren’t owned by the government, or FEMA. Instead, they’re owned by individuals, or not yet sold.


“They’re not owned by any one individual, company or the government,” Lacey said.


Further, Vantage leases the land, located at 1200 Madison Industrial Boulevard, from Conyers Welding & Supply and has for four to five years, a fact confirmed by Conyers Welding & Supply. Conyers Welding & Supply took over the lease when the property was purchased from Robert Usury in 2000. Usury purchased the property in 1989, according to information provided by the Morgan County Tax Assessor’s Office and the Morgan County Online Public Property Portal.


The answer as to why the vaults are being stored in Madison? To put it simply, the Covington-based manufacturer got a good deal close to home.

“It was the most cost-effective place,” Lacey said.

Source: http://www.morgancountycitizen.com/?q=node/7524

 

[Jazzy]

The sensible thing to do with bodies is to wrap them in sacking and bury them beneath a sapling. You thus give back to the earth that which you borrowed. A plaque on the tree would be nice. I know - off topic.

 

[Unregistered]

A Local Newspaper was wondering why this small village was so popular on Youtube and the truther-blogs in combination with, FEMA, death, and Concentration-Camps...

... and just asked the manufacturer:

There are currently 50,000 of these burial vaults on the property, according to Lacey. As the vaults were placed on the site around 1997 or 1998, there may have been as many as 70,000 or 80,000 to begin with.

“It’s nowhere near the quantity they talk about on the Internet,” Lacey said.

This quantity of burial vaults, Vantage’s Standard Air Seal model in black, also the least expensive model and the most in-demand, was made to cater to what Lacey calls the funeral industry’s “pre-need.” This “pre-need” occurs when people make arrangements for their funeral before they actually pass away, so that the family doesn’t have to go through the perceived stress of making the arrangements. When these arrangements are made, the products are paid for; obviously, though, they are not yet needed.

So, Vantage stores the product until the person dies, and the product is needed.

Further, pallets of the burial vaults are moved truckloads at a time, as there is space for a palate at the

Content from external source

Any idea what the end of the sentence was supposed to say?

So, accepting they are liners and 'only 50,000 of them', would anyone like to offer any thoughts on:

Why Vantage are the only known company storing them in this fashion and quantity?

Presumably, (judging by all the patents and the fact that America is regarded as 'quite large'), other companies must produce these liners as well and presumably, (albeit not every American has pre bought), these other companies will have their fair share of 'pre bought' and yet we do not have multiple sites on youtube. Does this infer that a) other companies do not premanufacture and wait for the person to die, or b) they conceal their liners better.

Why manufacture and store 'every' prepaid liner?
What are the chances they will all be needed at once or the owner rises up and says, "hey this isn't my one"?

Why a company would want to manufacture and store something as basic and non personalised as a graveliner in such large numbers is quite a mystery in its own right IMO. Does the customer pay a storage fee or is this simply borne by Vantage?

 

[Danell Zorn]

It seems like there is too much supply for an expected demand to me. Why not just create them as you need them? based on annual averages rather than mass create them and pay for storage. I'm just sayin' if it looks like fish, it is probably fishy.

 

[Landru]

It seems like there is too much supply for an expected demand to me. Why not just create them as you need them? based on annual averages rather than mass create them and pay for storage. I'm just sayin' if it looks like fish, it is probably fishy.

Why does it look fishy to you? The company has provided a reasonable explanation as to what the product is and what it's used for. It seems a much bigger stretch to assume a mass conspiracy to kill people. What evidence do you see that FEMA is involved? This question can be applied to all conspiracy theories related to FEMA.

 

[Mick West]

Georgia has a population of about 10 million, and a death rate of about 10/1000 annually. So that's 100,000 deaths per year. It seems pretty likely that they supply surrounding states as well, so you are talking about hundreds of thousands of burials per year.

It it really that surprising that the biggest manufacturer of grave liners in the region has a large supply of their most popular model? It's a combination of maintaining inventory, and the individual's "pre-need" liners.

And again, why exactly would FEMA need large quantities of a product that's only designed to stop the soil subsiding years after burial? Surely if they were planning mass murder they would just bury people in mass graves? What exactly is the conspiracy here?

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

Any idea what the end of the sentence was supposed to say?

Don´t know, it seems to be an error made by the Newspaper.

]Why Vantage are the only known company storing them in this fashion and quantity?

Dont know how other companies are storing their products (I´m not an American, as you can see by my bad english , but Vantage is the greatest and cheapest. Maybe they are the cheapest, because they store then on a free field and not in a warehouse.

And they are not the only manufactures. Just google "burial Vaults":

http://www.wilbert.com/store/index.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=34
http://www.trigard.com/
http://www.clarkvault.com/clark/index.cfm
http://www.doric-vaults.com/

What evidence do you see that FEMA is involved? This question can be applied to all conspiracy theories related to FEMA.

There a a lot of FEMA-Hoaxes.

The "FEMA-Concentraition-Camp" with "gas-Chambers" is in reality the Amtrak Beech Grove Repair Facility in Indianapolis - see http://www.trainweb.org/chris/beech.html

The Satellite-Photo showing the FEMA-Camp is a modified Picture of a Prision in North Korea

FAKE:


Original:



... and the FEMA-"Railroad-Prisions":



... are normal Railroad cars for transporting Automobiles. They take this Picture from here:
http://www.trainweb.org/funnelfan/automax.htm





​

These people like Alex Jones and other Conspiracy-Theorists are the fishy people...

 

[Mick West]

Don´t know, it seems to be an error made by the Newspaper

It's just a cut-and-paste error that was made as the story was re-copied over time. The missing word is "location". the oldest reference I could find for this quote is a DailyPaul comment in 2008:

http://www.dailypaul.com/39096/fema-coffins-in-georgia

[Edit] Actually I'll take that back, the 2008 link at http://www.morgancountycitizen.com/?q=node/7524 seems to be the original, and the word "location" was added in some later edit. The DailyPaul comment was in 2009.

 

[Unregistered]

It's just a cut-and-paste error that was made as the story was re-copied over time. The missing word is "location". the oldest reference I could find for this quote is a DailyPaul comment in 2008:

http://www.dailypaul.com/39096/fema-coffins-in-georgia

[Edit] Actually I'll take that back, the 2008 link at http://www.morgancountycitizen.com/?q=node/7524 seems to be the original, and the word "location" was added in some later edit. The DailyPaul comment was in 2009.

I don't mean to be picky but "Further, pallets of the burial vaults are moved truckloads at a time, as there is space for a palate at the location.", doesn't make sense especially when combined with "are moved truckloads at a time".

What could possibly be meant by 'the location' which takes truckloads?

 

[Mick West]

I don't mean to be picky but "Further, pallets of the burial vaults are moved truckloads at a time, as there is space for a palate at the location.", doesn't make sense especially when combined with "are moved truckloads at a time".

What could possibly be meant by 'the location' which takes truckloads?

The location is the field in Madison, GA, where they store them. They are moved on pallets, on trucks.



And actually they all seem to be gone from that location since 2011.

 

[Jazzy]

people like Alex Jones and other Conspiracy-Theorists are the fishy people...

Wow. Flagrant. Wow...

 

[Unregistered]

The location is the field in Madison, GA, where they store them. They are moved on pallets, on trucks.



And actually they all seem to be gone from that location since 2011.

Maybe I'm being dense here but it doesn't make sense to me.

"Further, pallets of the burial vaults are moved truckloads at a time, as there is space for a palate at the 'location'."

It appears to be saying they 'move truckloads at a time 'from' the field in Madison to the ... (location?) if indeed that is the correct original omitted word, (rather than just some word made up by someone at a later date to try to complete the sentence).

This is borne out in actuality by 'pallet loads' being seen going away, as per pic and the 'fact' they have gone since 2011 bears out the 'removal' which doesn't require 'space'. Just saying in case anyone can tie this up better.

Logically you do not need 'space' at the GA field to remove them, you would need 'space' at the destination.

'Destination' would possibly be a better fit for completing the sentence but would then infer they are merely going to one place, (bearing in mind the prefix 'the'), rather than multiple destinations, which would be prefixed as 'their'.

The sentence is odd, sorry but its just niggly, the first half is in the plural, (pallets and truckloads) whilst the second half is in the singular 'a palete' and 'at the'.

Ok its not the greatest 'news copy' because the spelling is also out but even so...

'Distribution centre' would be a better fit except you do not transport 'truckloads' of 'a pallet'.

Easy explanation 'the paper produces very shoddy copy', but is that the correct explanation?

I am also left wondering about these poor people who have 'pre-bought', now they don't have their grave liners 'ready to go' in storage anymore lol

 

[Unregistered]

And also there was another similar sized site just a few miles down the road at Covington Ga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTdk5MHroP0

He waffles for first 4 mins but then you get to the site and see them all, exactly the same as a few miles down the road at Madison.

So that would put an estimate of 50,000 and 50,000 = 100,000. Couldn't help stating the obvious.

Another interesting thing is, purely coincidental I'm sure, the guild stones are an hour and twenty minutes away according to google map.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

 

[Mick West]

I'm really struggling to find anything to debunk here.

I mean, it's a regular product, hundreds of thousands of which are used every year, and which have no conceivable other use, and its being manufactured by a company, and they stockpile them in various places. It's cheap to store them outdoors, as they are intended to last forever and are immune to the elements. They don't take up much space, so it's probably cheaper to manufacture them in large runs. It's just logistics.

I'm sure if you went to a body bag manufacturer you could find similar number of body bags in warehouses. Even if you went to a coffin manufacturer, you could probably find a lot of coffins in warehouses. Nobody gets suspicious because they just don't see them.

 

[Mick West]

Why would anyone need so many Wicker coffins?



Does FEMA plan to bury us in these blue bins?


And why is Nissan storing all these cars in a parking lot in England? There's about as many as there as the grave liners, but vastly more expensive.
http://www.engineering.com/Blogs/tabid/3207/ArticleID/427/Unsold-cars-stored-on-test-track.aspx


What about these in Long Beach, California:


Why does this warehouse have tens of thousands of tires? What possible use could anyone have for all those tires?


It's just logistics (which does not always go according to plan).

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

I'm really struggling to find anything to debunk here.

I mean, it's a regular product, hundreds of thousands of which are used every year, and which have no conceivable other use, and its being manufactured by a company, and they stockpile them in various places.

... and where is the connection to FEMA? There is no evidence that FEMA has something to do with these bureal vaults.

By the way...

There is only one govermential Institution buying these Bureal Vaults.
It´s the Department of Veterans Affairs - well they really need such things.

Yes, government did buy burial vaults

A search of U.S. Federal Government spending shows that a company by the name of PolyGuard Vaults does have a decade-long contract with the Federal Government to provide burial supplies. Starting in the fiscal year of 2000 and ending in 2009, the Department of Veterans Affairs spent over $1.7 million on plastic burial vaults through contracts with PolyGuard's parent company, Rocky Mountain Products.

However, U.S. Federal Government through the Department of Veterans Affairs also bought $5.5 million worth of memorials during this time period. Looking into these contracts, especially in light of the purchase of additional memorial supplies, goes a long way to show that these burial vaults were intended for use by Department of Veterans Affairs in funeral services for active or retired soldiers.

While burial vaults are not required by all states (for example, New York doesn't require them), they are recommended in many states to prevent water from seeping into the coffin, rotting it, and then causing the earth above it to cave in. So it would seem that the money spent on these burial vaults only went to provide soldiers with a proper burial.

Conspiracies typically revolve around the Georgia site (there are some conspiracy theories vaults in Indiana and Missouri too, however). Vantage, owner of the burial vaults at the Georgia site, does not have any government contracts. Confusion appears to arise from a lack of separation between PolyGuard and Vantage, with most believing them to be the same company. We contacted both PolyGuard and Vantage, and they confirmed that they are indeed separate, competing companies. This is a fact often overlooked in conspiracies involving the FEMA coffins, as Polyguard has the government contract (and is based in Wyoming); however, Vantage owns the burial vaunts near Atlanta, GA and the CDC.

In other words, the government does not own the burial vaults near the Atlanta airport. There is no connection between government agencies like FEMA and the vaults.

Content from external source

Source: http://io9.com/5860519/are-coffins-being-stored-in-atlanta-for-a-high-casualty-event

Another interesting thing is, purely coincidental I'm sure, the guild stones are an hour and twenty minutes away according to google map.

... and how much cemeterys are also "only an hour and twenty minutes away"? :-D

 

[Unregistered]

There a a lot of FEMA-Hoaxes.

The "FEMA-Concentraition-Camp" with "gas-Chambers" is in reality the Amtrak Beech Grove Repair Facility in Indianapolis - see http://www.trainweb.org/chris/beech.html

These people like Alex Jones and other Conspiracy-Theorists are the fishy people...

Well this seems to be some mystery. From your link we get:

"Amtrak Beech Grove Shop Tour 4/13/07" inc all the pictures and blurb.

Whilst at: http://americanholocaustcoming.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/confirmed-amtrak-deathcamp-of-beech.html we find:

Saturday, February 28, 2009
The CONFIRMED AMTRAK DEATHCAMP of Beech Grove IN
-CIA SOURCE Confirms AMTRAK DEATHCAMP Under MARTIAL LAW-

Complete with detailed video of a 'very similar style building' at 1 min 47 seconds.

The video shows a very different picture with military equipment, (not in good condition but military all the same), razer wire fencing, turnstile entry, new gas pipes and allegedly furnaces etc etc inc 'black helicopter flyovers'.

It also states the facility used to be an Amtrak repair yard but was closed in June 1993.

Can anyone square up the obvious discrepancies and how it was done?

The author seems clearly deranged but even so the video tells a compelling and different picture to a fully functioning repair yard.

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php...-doom-pamela-rae-schuffert-changes-her-story/

Earlier this month, Christian prophet Pamela Rae Schuffert told her followers that the Holy Ghost had told her that a NATO invasion would establish martial law in the United States before July 1. Schuffert said that the New World Order dictatorship established over the United States would close the borders, making it impossible to leave the USA unless they got out by the end of the day on June 30. She said that the NWO army would take away Americans’ guns.

 

[Unregistered]

Why would anyone need so many Wicker coffins?



And why is Nissan storing all these cars in a parking lot in England? There's about as many as there as the grave liners, but vastly more expensive.
http://www.engineering.com/Blogs/tabid/3207/ArticleID/427/Unsold-cars-stored-on-test-track.aspx


What about these in Long Beach, California:


Why does this warehouse have tens of thousands of tires? What possible use could anyone have for all those tires?


It's just logistics (which does not always go according to plan).

Like I said its just 'niggly' inconsistencies

I don't think a couple hundred wicker coffins are comparable to 100,000 plastic grave liners.

Cars, well they are not comparable. There have always been depots where they are stored prior to shipment to dealerships and since the slump in car sales there are naturally more to store, hence the trains. There is a massive workforce involved in car production with special machinery which it is hard to 'mothball' but these grave liners are different because people haven't stopped dying.

The only explanation I can imagine is 'they do a whole year production run and then mothball the machines and lay off the employees'.

It was also a very disingenuous statement for Vantage to make by saying 'there are only 50,000 at the site if they have another site a few miles down the road which contains a further 50,000.

They also state:"The filmed lot in Madison, Ga., is a Vantage storage facility. Of the 900,000 or so in-ground burials in the U.S. each year, a small percentage of those people prearranged their own caskets and vaults--which Vanguard holds at the storage facility until the appropriate time. According to company Vice President of Operations Michael Lacey, there are approximately 50,000 vaults in storage in Madison. "It's nowhere near the quantity they talk about on the Internet," he told the local Morgan County Citizen newspaper."

So you have, by their account, 900,000 or so in-ground burials in the U.S. each year.

They were storing 100,000 in two sites = 9% of the entire U.S. requirement is 'in storage' by one of many manufacturers.

If we say Vantage have a 'market share' of 10% that would be 90% of their entire production in storage. It doesn't make sense to me.

Even if they had a 20% market share, which seems unrealistic for one company, that would still only equate to 900,000 / 5 = 180,000 so that would be over 50% of their production, in storage.

They also state: "a small percentage of those people prearranged their own caskets and vaults--which Vanguard holds at the storage facility until the appropriate time".

A small percentage of 180,000 = 100,000?

I think not.

I'm not saying anything about fema or anything like that I just cannot understand such a business model.

 

[Mick West]

I'm not saying anything about fema or anything like that I just cannot understand such a business model.

Maybe you should call them and ask?

10% of the annual usage does not seem to be a large amount to me. Less than a month's supply? Obviously this is just not just the pre-need liners, it's just stock. They keep enough in stock so they don't run out.

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

"Amtrak Beech Grove Shop Tour 4/13/07" inc all the pictures and blurb.

The video shows a very different picture with military equipment, (not in good condition but military all the same), razer wire fencing, turnstile entry, new gas pipes and allegedly furnaces etc etc inc 'black helicopter flyovers'.

It also states the facility used to be an Amtrak repair yard but was closed in June 1993.

(...)

The author seems clearly deranged but even so the video tells a compelling and different picture to a fully functioning repair yard.

It seems still in use:

Amtrak's Beech Grove Shops complex sits on 108 acres (0.44 km2) and there is 700,000 square feet (65,000 m2) under the roofs of the buildings. In 2007, Amtrak had 550 employees working there.

http://www.beechgrove.com/a-brief-history-of-beech-grove.html

 

[Unregistered]

It seems still in use:



http://www.beechgrove.com/a-brief-history-of-beech-grove.html

Glenn Beck threatened by NWO?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rtn0MlCFhA&feature=related

Goes from threatening to get to the bottom of fema camps and later backpedaled and hosted a debunking segment featuring a government shill guest from Popular Mechanics.

So, we get Glenn Becks debunks The FEMA Camps with Popular Mechanics Magazine on Fox News Show ?

Uploaded by GlennBeckChannel on Apr 7, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1AiAqiOfk

There are posts from 3 yrs ago:
"Funny I thought they were going to show side by side video! Where's the pictures that they took all they showed was trains, lets see the pictures of the removed turn stiles!!!!

jeffdelorey1981 3 years ago"

 

[Landru]

The video shows a very different picture with military equipment, (not in good condition but military all the same), razer wire fencing, turnstile entry, new gas pipes and allegedly furnaces etc etc inc 'black helicopter flyovers'.

Check out http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/4312850?click=main_sr The military equipment is an army locomotive which was probably being stored or refurbished at the yard. The furnaces and turnstile entry system are explained in the Popular Mechanics link and have been changed. The turnstiles were never that evil to me as I have seen them used in several instances over the years (none in prisons). I just did a search in google images https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=AkKhUIvGH-i60AHot4GYBQ

 

[Unregistered]

Check out http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/4312850?click=main_sr The military equipment is an army locomotive which was probably being stored or refurbished at the yard. The furnaces and turnstile entry system are explained in the Popular Mechanics link and have been changed. The turnstiles were never that evil to me as I have seen them used in several instances over the years (none in prisons). I just did a search in google images https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=AkKhUIvGH-i60AHot4GYBQ

Thanks for that. Only problem is I can't see their video.

They say " Company officials, who've heard these theories for years, welcomed our film crew, and John Grey, the superintendent of the facility, showed us anything we wanted to see."

Well I don't know why I can't see their video but I hope its a lot better than the garbage they put out on the Glenn Beck debunk because to be quite frank that was about the most inept bit of debunking, (visually), that I've seen. A two year old could have done a better job. If after the grandiose claim they could film whatever they liked, all they walked away with was the Glenn Beck footage it would be pathetic and lend more credence to the camp claim than it already had.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the fema camp rubbish but why go to all that trouble to go there with a full tv crew and come away with a few minutes of suspicious garbage. They are supposed to be debunking, not endorsing.

The other idiot who interviewed the old lady and claimed no one would talk about it simply gave the original claim more credence also IMO. The only other interviewee, the 'official' was every bit as bad. No wonder these theories persist.

 

[Unregistered]

http://prophecynewsdaily.com/deception/1678/pg/1/FEMA_Camps.html

As soon as my friend told me this story, I had to know how much FEMA-fear was still out there. I posed the question on the social networking siteReddit, which is known for having a fairly sophisticated readership, and received more paranoia in reply than I would have expected.

“There is a lot of info on the net about this. Believe it or not at your own risk. The camps appear to be real. The powers of the government under an emergency are infinite. This is a very scary situation. You can do research about it on the net if you are interested in it. It seems that all of the crazy people aren’t so crazy after all. A lot of it is about information control, money, land, fear,sheeple control, etc.” “While improbable that such an event will occur, it’s not beyond possibility.”

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.”

In this time in our nation’s history, a conspiratorial mindset is certainly not unreasonable — even justifiable. But what possible rationale would the government have for putting people in camps — aside from the state of Arizona, which I’m sure wouldn’t mind hauling in all of Mexico if it were possible — there’s absolutely no incentive.

Content from external source

 

[Unregistered]

Thats it, if you want proof of what is there go to google maps and put in Beech Grove, IN 46107, USA, Main Street, Beech Grove, IN, United States

You can see all the local business' and buildings etc end of story, now that is what I call debunking!!!

 

[Mick West]

Unregistered,

Please register if you want to continue to post.

 

[Landru]

http://prophecynewsdaily.com/deception/1678/pg/1/FEMA_Camps.html

As soon as my friend told me this story, I had to know how much FEMA-fear was still out there. I posed the question on the social networking siteReddit, which is known for having a fairly sophisticated readership, and received more paranoia in reply than I would have expected.

“There is a lot of info on the net about this. Believe it or not at your own risk. The camps appear to be real. The powers of the government under an emergency are infinite. This is a very scary situation. You can do research about it on the net if you are interested in it. It seems that all of the crazy people aren’t so crazy after all. A lot of it is about information control, money, land, fear,sheeple control, etc.” “While improbable that such an event will occur, it’s not beyond possibility.”

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

Content from external source

The rest snipped as a Gish Gallup.

The Popular Mechanics link above also mentions the list of executive orders and addresses them as a whole. Most of them were created during the early cold war. EO 10990 was signed by JFK in 1962. Almost all of them (I think all) have been superseded by later EOs or laws. Lets take EO 10990 for example. I went to http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1962.html and found that 10990 was superseded by EO 11612 on July 26, 1971, which was superseded by 11807 on September 28, 1974, which was revoked by 12196 on February 26, 1980, which was amended by a whole bunch of EOs throughout the years and continued by 13511.

FEMA is regulated by CFR 44 and the Robert T. Stafford Act in the event of a declared emergency. If you can find one thing in the list of EOs as amended that troubles you and post it here we can discuss it further.

 

[FreiZeitGeist]

Thats it, if you want proof of what is there go to google maps and put in Beech Grove, IN 46107, USA, Main Street, Beech Grove, IN, United States

You can see all the local business' and buildings etc end of story, now that is what I call debunking!!!

Better search for "amtrak Beech Grove, IN 46107, USA, Main Street" - Because the Main street is long...



The Employes of Amtrak have nice cars... Looks busy for me :-D

 

[Oxymoron]

Unregistered,

Please register if you want to continue to post.

Ok, not that I can see a valid reason but I'll go with it

 

[RolloverRiderPGR]

But it is weird.

No other nation on earth has them.

The American public themselves don't seem to recognise them and they are the ones allegedly buying them 'to protect their coffins from damage' or forced to buy them to 'protect the cemetery from collapsing'.

If we accept that thousands of people have 'pre bought', it still does not explain why they have been manufactured and stored thus incurring storage costs/problems, let alone giving rise to Armageddon theories.

Does anyone know how long they been around, how they came about, what laws are invoked to ensure usage... I mean, this is interesting stuff really.

I take it you have NEVER been to a funeral? If you have, did you notice the concrete box UNDER the coffin and usually the top is still on the back of the grave diggers truck or con top of the pile of dirt and covered by green grass carpeting? That's a concrete version of the plastic ones. I am a member of the PGR and have been to a "few" military funerals and guess what they use ?/ Yep your FEMA Caskets! Even many of those "pre paid" funeral insurance scams have these listed on the plan! They are way cheaper than a concrete box!

As a trucker I have had the pleasure of having morons pass me when I was hauling leech field tops. They look like the casket boxes all black on a flatbed BUT idiots of the TC crown will slow and take pictures and flip me off because their limited brain power only goes as far as the crap they see on line!

Want to take a lot of stress off?
Get that joke of a FEMA Camp list which BTW is the 1985 US Military Base List. It has all the bases that were active at the time while Congress was deciding which ones to close.
I DARE you to go to many of them in your area instead of passing that joke around! I'll give you 3 hoax busters but all of them are a hoax because all the "closed" bases are all leased out to private businesses or shut completely as in ghost towns! BUT go DRIVE THROUGH Ft. Mac Pearson Army Base in Atlanta which according to the idiot who put the "list" together is the Command and Control center for the USA! ALL "criminal American citizens" will be sent to Atlanta and "processed" before being "assigned" to a "prison!" (read the stupid crap the idiot wrote on it and if you have half a brain cell working you will notice it reads like a civilian book NOT a government document!) He spent a lot of time making a hoax which idiots keep alive just like this coffin hoax because they refuse to VERIFY anything they see on the internet!

Ft Mac, Ga? Yeah right! I was stationed and lived in Atlanta and Augusta and keep tabs with friends on Ft Gordon which per contacts there nope no camp! and Ft. Mac has NO room for a camp NOR is it logistically sound to send everyone there as it's not what I'd call "close" to the airport for safe and secure transfer of prisoners! Also Ft Mac was Built in the 1800s and thus has OLD buildings there AND the base is not big enough for any camp and you CAN drive all over the place as it is no longer a military base except for the Historical Society! The same for Richards-Grey AFB just south of KCMO. It's been sold, The air strip now has a railroad spur down the middle. The USAF does have 1 hangar for NG training and Kum and Go built a 100,000 or bigger sq ft warehouse and I have delivered to it! Unless that camp is underground it ain't there! 2 Hoaxes busted
Ft Lenard-wood, Mo. Nope nothing there either! I have been there for PGR Missions and have been all over the base last year due to this joke called FEMA Camps and there is nothing there either UNLESS IT TOO is under ground!

BUT back to those so called FEMA coffins!
I have NO idea of how many of those pre paid burial plans are active or paid for. It's a rip off., Pay in payments to a funeral home for your but=rial plans don't fost it off on your wife or kids!

Those coffins? What a joke!
Do you REALLY think a broke as crap country like we are now which IF that half breed white guy were to call for some mass arrest or gun grab the US is going to BURY your silly arse in a BOX?
Hitler perfected the perfect burial plan for dictators! Dig a big hole, walk the "criminals" in, shoot them in the head and bulldoze the dirt over them! DO you really think they are going to dig a hole just for your sorry arses? NOPE! I have even argued the point with a moron until he gave up! The idiot said they will put as many bodies in them as they can and again why would they WASTE THE TIME AND MONEY putting you and others in a box then covering it up! Hey will they use markers for those "graves so they know where to dig next time?? Really digging how many holes, shoot, put the body in a box taking man power unless you walked to it on your own like a sheep! Make them work and FIGHT every step causing them to spend more time and money on your arse!
Ft Gordon Ga? Nope clean!
FT Leavenworth? It's a historical monument! The Feds had a real problem building the NEW FEDERAL Prison there! And nope NO camp! Well unless they use the OLD PRISON to hold a few hundred. Now they MIGHT send ME either there or Ft Wood as they are closer but I guess tents in the field will work!
What most of you do not realize with Conspiracy Theory writers is they do NOT look at logistics in their "hoaxes." Why do you think Hilter, China, Edi Arin, Stalin, Lenon, Pol Pot and others used mass graves? THEY ARE CHEAP, EASY AND Suited for killing thousands and millions as space is NO problem with them! The area that all those "coffins" would cover with say 5 people per box for oh say a strip of 500'x20'x6' is about 300 boxes times 5 is 1500 people! The SAME area will hold almost 4000 bodies stacked and tumbled together and covered never to be found unless a map or someone in the future finds them!

Now why are coffins a stupid idea for any mass arrest and cleansing? Because stupid people keep stupid hoaxes alive!

WOW! I covered 2 FEMA Hoaxes and debunked them!

 

[Mick West]

As a trucker I have had the pleasure of having morons pass me when I was hauling leech field tops. They look like the casket boxes all black on a flatbed BUT idiots of the TC crown will slow and take pictures and flip me off because their limited brain power only goes as far as the crap they see on line!

This type of thing:
http://norwalktank.com/product-septic-related.shtml


That's quite amazing you should get people taking pictures because they think they are "FEMA Coffins".

 

[Unregistered]

Hitler perfected the perfect burial plan for dictators! Dig a big hole, walk the "criminals" in, shoot them in the head and bulldoze the dirt over them! DO you really think they are going to dig a hole just for your sorry arses?

What most of you do not realize with Conspiracy Theory writers is they do NOT look at logistics in their "hoaxes." Why do you think Hilter, China, Edi Arin, Stalin, Lenon, Pol Pot and others used mass graves? THEY ARE CHEAP, EASY AND Suited for killing thousands and millions as space is NO problem with them!

You said exactly what I was thinking. I'd be more concerned if they were buying bulldozers and stockpiling lime. Thank you!

 

[Grieves]

Let's put more non-biodegradable plastic crap in the ground to prevent our decomposing bodies from re-entering the environment. Seems like an overly expensive way to bury yourself in a the equivalent of a few thick trash bags.

 

[MikeC]

Which I am sure you will agree is a concern that is entirely unrelated to FEMA planning to kill everyone in the USA.

Not an unreasonable one - but not actually a conspiracy of any kind that I recognise.