Debunked: Fake Snow, Burning Snow.

JRBids

Senior Member.
What's quite stunning is that you can take something totally normal, tell people it's not normal so everyone tries it, everyone gets the same results (cos it's normal) and then end up with the conclusion that something not normal is going on everywhere.

It's amazing to watch.

What is more amazing is even one of their own friends tells them the truth they insist they're wrong. One of the posters on Global Sky Watch kept insisting someone else did not live in the right zip code for the geoengineered snow, so it didn't matter what happened to his. Because it was SUPPOSED to snow there in winter.. i think he may have been trolling though. :)
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Well, except for the homeless people who froze to death.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Snow-Possible-Later-This-Week-238225261.html
But still, hardly a reason to suspect a conspiracy.
Ten people died throughout the Southeast. With two in Georgia where I live.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/29/us/winter-weather/

 

Bigcolorado74

New Member
I posted this on fb to explain to a friend who posted a black snow video. Another friend who is a huge conspiracy guy came back with this response:
He's completely sold in Alex jones. Anything I can tell him to rebuke his statement?
Heard you on the joe rogan podcast, love what you do. Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Unfortunately I cannot quote, but I thought I would add a couple of links on the issue of acid snow and pollutants. This is a very useful article on the acidity of some snowfalls.
http://dwb4.unl.edu/Chem/CHEM869V/CHEM869VLinks/www.qesn.meq.gouv.qc.ca/cc/acidrain/info6.htm

The above article makes mention of black snowfalls in the Cairngorms and a summary of the original Nature article can be found here
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v312/n5989/abs/312058a0.html
This article, although brief, is particularly useful at it offers a number of references from studies performed pre 1980's. Sufficed to say air pollution is well studied and understood and has been for decades. However just because we have pollution abatement measures in place it does not mean the issue has gone away.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I posted this on fb to explain to a friend who posted a black snow video. Another friend who is a huge conspiracy guy came back with this response:
He's completely sold in Alex jones. Anything I can tell him to rebuke his statement?
Heard you on the joe rogan podcast, love what you do. Thanks

Thanks!

It sounds like he's just not really considered the explanations very well.

Ask him to try the same thing with a glass - hold the lighter real close to it so it's blackening - and compare the smell.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
Thanks!

It sounds like he's just not really considered the explanations very well.

Ask him to try the same thing with a glass - hold the lighter real close to it so it's blackening - and compare the smell.

And ask him to try sticking the snow in a pan on the stove too
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This thread is very popular. But some caching software I've installed is not counting the views correctly. It shows 11,000, but we've actually had over 65,000 unique visitors since it was posted yesterday, and currently running at around 6,000 new views an hour.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
This thread is very popular. But some caching software I've installed is not counting the views correctly. It shows 11,000, but we've actually had over 65,000 unique visitors since it was posted yesterday, and currently running at around 6,000 new views an hour.
My video went from under 500 views last night to over 4,600 now.
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
This thread is very popular. But some caching software I've installed is not counting the views correctly. It shows 11,000, but we've actually had over 65,000 unique visitors since it was posted yesterday, and currently running at around 6,000 new views an hour.

A bit off-topic but why dont you have advertising, Mick? You must be a wealth guy dude. this forum must costs a fortune to run. Not to mention you seem to do all the administration yourself. I have websites so I know what servers cost.

Thanks anyway. Although I do not agree with you on some things, I have learned a lot from you about science and rationality.

Maybe you just got a really well paid job in 'real life'. Would not be suprising as you are obviously intelligent and from a science background.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
A bit off-topic but why dont you have advertising, Mick? You must be a wealth guy dude. this forum must costs a fortune to run. Not to mention you seem to do all the administration yourself. I have websites so I know what servers cost.

Thanks anyway. Although I do not agree with you on some things, I have learned a lot from you about science and rationality.

Maybe you just got a really well paid job in 'real life'. Would not be suprising as you are obviously intelligent and from a science background.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/how-much-does-metabunk-org-cost-to-run.2291/
 

Punkae

New Member
This was awesome and informative! I saw one of those "Fake snow" videos on my facebook and decided to find out if it was true or not! Thanks for helping me learn something new today! :)
 

Mackdog

Senior Member.
This stuff is pretty good. I can't believe that they think the snow is fake (actually I'm not really too surprised). But fake snow IS actually real...it's called a ski resort :) I remember back in Ohio that most of the time it would not snow enough on the slopes to make for a good snow pack so they would have to turn on the machines and make it snow. I think the composition of man made snow is different, it always seemed like it was more icy than fluffy with the snowflake geometry. Someone should go to a ski resort and test the fake snow there and compare it to the snow they found in Atlanta. Also, I am waiting for one of the CT'ers to say that the traffic jams and scenes of "Armageddon" in Atlanta were faked or staged for the camera lol. I'm still looking online to see if anyone is saying that and I will start a thread if I can find anything.
 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This stuff is pretty good. I can't believe that they think the snow is fake (actually I'm not really too surprised). But fake snow IS actually real...it's called a ski resort :) I remember back in Ohio that most of the time it would not snow enough on the slops to make for a good snow pack so they would have to turn on the machines and make it snow. I think the composition of man made snow is different, it always seemed like it was more icy than fluffy with the snowflake geometry. Someone should go to a ski resort and test the fake snow there and compare it to the snow they found in Atlanta.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/olympic_ice_prt.htm

Man-made snow has a much lower surface area ratio, as it forms as tiny pellets from freezing drops of water, unlike natural snow which grows by deposition into fractal plates. The natural snow will wick and absorb water much better. You'd probably get drips quicker from the man-made snow than from the natural snow.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
It seems there are two criteria that makes them believe the snow is fake. The apparent non melting and the bad odour. What kind of easy test could be performed to examine the source of the "chemical smell"? Here's what I'd do...

Take a random handful of snow.
Make two snowballs.
Melt one with a butane lighter.
Melt the other in a pan on a hotplate.

If one smells/tastes bad and the other doesn't, then can't we conclude the source of the odour is something other than the snow?
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
It seems there are two criteria that makes them believe the snow is fake. The apparent non melting and the bad odour. What kind of easy test could be performed to examine the source of the "chemical smell"? Here's what I'd do...

Take a random handful of snow.
Make two snowballs.
Melt one with a butane lighter.
Melt the other in a pan on a hotplate.

If one smells/tastes bad and the other doesn't, then can't we conclude the source of the odour is something other than the snow?
Those without snow can test it with a drinking glass. Just smell a clean glass before, hold the lighter under the glass so the flame touches the glass until black soot appears. Then smell it again. Those with snow can do it to both snow and the glass and see the smell is the same.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
Kristen Meghan has come out debunking the fake snow hoax on her Facebook page.
(My current device, choice of apps or lack of skilz prevents me from posting the link or getting a screen shot.)
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Kristen Meghan has come out debunking the fake snow hoax on her Facebook page.
(My current device, choice of apps or lack of skilz prevents me from posting the link or getting a screen shot.)
This and the fact that before its news are debunking it, makes me believe that it was really just a great troll someone did.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You know, they laughed at "Crazy Rainbow Lady" six years ago. The internet and the chemtrail conspiracy culture has a changed a bit. I wonder if this video came out now, if she'd get a lot more traction:

 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Is there a way to check for time of upload on Youtube?

I just see a filter for upload date, nothing for time.

You can check the metadata of the actual file with a few simple tools. This works well on Linux, though I think Mediainfo is available on windows. Not sure about Macs.

Download Helper is a Mozilla add-on that will let you download almost any kind of media file to your computer. I use it a lot for grabbing YouTube vids.

Then Mediainfo gives you all kinds of information about the file itself. For instance here's the creation date and time info from the Crazy Sprinkler Lady video.

mediainfo.png

Let me know if there's a file you want checked out.

Edit: I think this would be the date and time the video was uploaded to YouTube and not the actual creation of video. YouTube processes the uploaded video files and I suspect that changes the timestamps.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Edit: I think this would be the date and time the video was uploaded to YouTube and not the actual creation of video. YouTube processes the uploaded video files and I suspect that changes the timestamps.

Aha, you can get the metadata via:
http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/videos/5tEza2wB20c (<< replace the last bit with the YouTube code of the video)
Code:
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><entry xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' xmlns:yt='http://gdata.youtube.com/schemas/2007'><id>http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/videos/5tEza2wB20c</id>
<published>2014-01-29T18:22:31.000Z</published>
<updated>2014-01-31T03:42:08.000Z</updated>
<category scheme='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#kind' term='http://gdata.youtube.com/schemas/2007#video'/>
<category scheme='http://gdata.youtube.com/schemas/2007/categories.cat' term='People' label='People &amp; Blogs'/>
<title type='text'>IS THIS SNOW?</title>
<content type='text'>The Geo-engineers have stated that the reason they spray Chemtrails in our air is to slow down the "global warming" process. I saw this experiment done earlier today 1/29/14 and I wanted to try it myself. Disclaimer: I am not a novice in Physics, but I do have common sense. I use to be able to do this when I was a boy, but now I cannot. Just something to make you think.</content><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tEza2wB20c&amp;feature=youtube_gdata'/>
<link rel='http://gdata.youtube.com/schemas/2007#video.related' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/videos/5tEza2wB20c/related'/><link rel='http://gdata.youtube.com/schemas/2007#mobile' type='text/html' href='http://m.youtube.com/details?v=5tEza2wB20c'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/videos/5tEza2wB20c'/><author><name>Titus OneTenEleven</name>
<uri>http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/users/JMtN8BiMZQahCWlTFCeDHg</uri></author><yt:hd/><media:group><media:category label='People &amp; Blogs' scheme='http://gdata.youtube.com/schemas/2007/categories.cat'>People</media:category><media:content url='http://www.youtube.com/v/5tEza2wB20c?version=3&amp;f=videos&amp;app=youtube_gdata' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' medium='video' isDefault='true' expression='full' duration='211' yt:format='5'/>
<media:content url='rtsp://r2---sn-a5m7zu7k.c.youtube.com/CiILENy73wIaGQlH2wFsazPR5hMYDSANFEgGUgZ2aWRlb3MM/0/0/0/video.3gp' type='video/3gpp' medium='video' expression='full' duration='211' yt:format='1'/><media:content url='rtsp://r2---sn-a5m7zu7k.c.youtube.com/CiILENy73wIaGQlH2wFsazPR5hMYESARFEgGUgZ2aWRlb3MM/0/0/0/video.3gp' type='video/3gpp' medium='video' expression='full' duration='211' yt:format='6'/><media:description type='plain'>The Geo-engineers have stated that the reason they spray Chemtrails in our air is to slow down the "global warming" process. I saw this experiment done earlier today 1/29/14 and I wanted to try it myself. Disclaimer: I am not a novice in Physics, but I do have common sense. I use to be able to do this when I was a boy, but now I cannot. Just something to make you think.</media:description>
<media:keywords/><media:player url='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tEza2wB20c&amp;feature=youtube_gdata_player'/><media:thumbnail url='http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5tEza2wB20c/0.jpg' height='360' width='480' time='00:01:45.500'/><media:thumbnail url='http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5tEza2wB20c/1.jpg' height='90' width='120' time='00:00:52.750'/><media:thumbnail url='http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5tEza2wB20c/2.jpg' height='90' width='120' time='00:01:45.500'/><media:thumbnail url='http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5tEza2wB20c/3.jpg' height='90' width='120' time='00:02:38.250'/><media:title type='plain'>IS THIS SNOW?</media:title><yt:duration seconds='211'/></media:group><yt:statistics favoriteCount='0' viewCount='232432'/></entry>

The "Published" time there, 2014-01-29T18:22:31.000Z is "Zulu" (UTC/GMT).
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Aha, you can get the metadata via:
http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/videos/5tEza2wB20c (<< replace the last bit with the YouTube code of the video)

Very cool, as usual!

So the Mediainfo data is NOT the upload data and time? Here's what I got running the the sprinkler lady vid.
The encode date seems to be the day before the published date.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Very cool, as usual!

So the Mediainfo data is NOT the upload data and time? Here's what I got running the the sprinkler lady vid.
The encode date seems to be the day before the published date.

Seems that way. The "encode" date is probably the date it was exported from the video creation software - or possibly the actual camera date.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Dane Wigington is pushing this one hard. He and others see it as an opportunity to advance the chemtrails hoax.
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/chemically-nucleated-snow-what-is-it/

Though he and others have long claimed that the snow is "artificially nucleated" his tests have never shown anything out of the ordinary in it.

That is really the crux of the matter. If there is anything unusual in the snow, it will be found with a real analysis, not by holding a cigarette lighter up and calling that an experiment.

I'm sure that some folks coming here have been directed to the chemtrails conspiracy theory and need to understand that the chemtrail folks claims about unusual levels of aluminum, barium and strontium in rain and snow are bogus. Yes, all of these elements and many more will be and have always been found in ordinary rain and snow. Records for this extend back at least for 180 years as seen in ice cores from Antarctica and up through the present. The levels vary according to different causes, mainly the sources are soil mineral dust, sea salt particles and ordinary pollutants. Depending on wind, location, and "washout" by previous precipitation, you will find that stuff in the air can be different from time to time.

For an in-depth look at the claims which have been and continue to be made, here are some links:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-shasta-snow-and-water-aluminum-tests.137/

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/natural-abundance-of-strontium-and-barium.822/

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ha...ium-strontium-manganese-and-varium-tests.146/

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ounty-florida-test-positive-for-aluminum.313/

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/chemtrails-project.557/

===========================================================

From what I've seen on Youtube and elsewhere, there could well be a 'blowback' over this farrago against the chemtrail promoters. Quite a few ordinary people are looking at this and calling it for the nonsense that it really is:

 

deirdre

Senior Member.
A friend in Missoula posted a pic of the snow (totally unaware about this latest conspiracy) yesterday or today. It doesn't look discoloured to me, especially not black. I guess I could ask her to smell it or take some indoors and let it thaw then examine/photo the result. (Not sure it'll do my credibility any good lol)

For some reason, it won't show as an inserted picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/46876066@N07/12238221726/in/photostream/lightbox/
i asked a friend in Gadsden to experiment with snow last night but he said it all melted yesterday ; ( he did say he ate it with the kids though and it tasted like normal snow.
 

Rachel

New Member
Hey Mick,

Layperson here. I know nothing of snow as I was born and raised in the desert, I've never taken a survival class, and I apparently missed a crucial episode of Breaking Bad. ;)

Someone linked this forum when I was asking questions about the snow videos, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I noticed a couple people scoffed at geongineering but it's not a myth, or a conspiracy theory, and has already been admitted to, albeit at a very small scale. The condescending attitudes by some of the posters in this thread towards the general public's reaction to these videos doesn't help encourage people to be sceptical, scientific or inquisitory, and I think you're doing Mick's post a disservice by ridiculing people.

That said, Mick, I have a few questions that perhaps seem obvious or have already been answered in your original post, but it isn't registering apparently:

1. What causes the "smoke" that rises from the snow being burned by a flame? Is that the "soot" burning?
2. Would you speculate that a gas stove burner would have this same effect, or not because the fuel source is "cleaner"?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
1. What causes the "smoke" that rises from the snow being burned by a flame? Is that the "soot" burning?
It's the soot rising in the hot air.

Black smoke is essentially just soot (carbon) particles, it rises because it's in hot air.

2. Would you speculate that a gas stove burner would have this same effect, or not because the fuel source is "cleaner"?

It's mostly the combustion that is cleaner. A gas stove is designed with an air intake in the tube below the burners, so the flame comes out pre-mixed oxygen and gas, and burns blue, meaning it's clean burning. A butane lighter is designed specifically to burn with a yellow flame, which is already pretty dirty. The oxygen for the flame mostly comes from around the flame itself. You get most soot when the flame is right up against the object, which restricts the oxygen supply.

Butane blow torches have an air adjustment, so you can make the flame burn clean (hotter and more powerful), or dirty (yellow). The blue flame will give very little soot.

I've got an old-fashioned gas stove I maintain, and a butane blowtorch, so I'm quite familiar with the different types of combustion.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
http://www.wdbj7.com/weather/why-th...mal/-/20128370/24210298/-/ubbcty/-/index.html

Even making local news casts. From WDBJ Channel 7 in Roanoake VA. Mick's glass slide and ice cube demo included.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here's a video I just made demonstrating different type of butane combustion.

(at 0:35 the slider shatters from the uneven heating, but I soldier on).
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Dane Wigington weighs in with support for the "fake snow" theory.
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/chemically-nucleated-snow-what-is-it/ (http://archive.is/1Kqw0)
I very much doubt that he would read my debunking, as he is convinced I am a "government shill".
 

pseacraft

Active Member
I just find it silly that they use the term "burning snow". That alone tells me that they are full of fertilizer.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
When you describe the snow 'wicking' away the water, is that the same as capillary action?

Exactly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action
I used the term "wicking" because people are generally familiar with it in the context of wicking sports clothing and undergarments.
 
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