• MH370 speculation has become excessive recently. Metabunk is not a forum for creating theories by speculation. It's a forum for examining claims, and seeing if they hold up. Please respect this and keep threads on-topic. There are many other forums where speculation is welcome.

Debunked: Exploration company "Georesonance" believes it may have found MH370

David Coulter

Senior Member.
I compiled a list of companies who claim to be using the same technology as GeoResonance. They refer to the technology under different names. It can be geo-resonance, geo-holography, geo-heliography, geo-NMR, "Deep Vision", or others. Often they point also to the same patent of Dr. Gokh, or to one of his websites or diagrams. The list is definitely incomplete. If you know about others, let me know and I add them. I only included companies clearly using the Gokh's technology schema. For legal reasons I cannot claim it is a criminal ring or a scam, but it appears to me that the schema shows rather clear signs of a fraud. Some of the companies may tell that they just resell services of a 3rd party in UA, and may have fell victims themselves. However I find it unlikely, I cannot exclude such possibility.

The list includes also the Sevastopol National University, because its ex-rector seems to have presented the work of Dr. Gokh and co. during a conference of the Black Sea University Network. I hope it will turn out to be some kind of mistake on their part, or an abuse of their identity.
Then there are these two companies that show similar signs, but do not reveal direct links to Gokh's group. They do not reveal details of their technology, so it is difficult to tell whether they are legit or not:
Then there are dozens of companies using other debunked technologies like for example microleptons, etc., but that would be off-topic here. I have compiled also a long list of persons involved in the above mentioned companies as CEO or representatives, but it would make the post too long, so I skip it for now.


Great research txt. I started compiling a list but you have done a thorough job. Leaf and Stone is bogus. Adrok is exactly the same but has a really cool video narrated by a Scotsman, which makes it seem somewhat legit, but it is still BS. The pitch is the same in all regards: identify oil, gas, water, and/or all metals (on an elemental basis) using electromagnetic radiation though water and solid rock. There is no way to do that, period. Mr. Spock's scanners only exist on the TV show, not in the real world.
 

bume

Member

This one might be just a customer for GeoResonance, or a bit closer partner than just that, not sure.

Seems to be a market place for Ukrainian companies so unclear to which extent they are participating, definitely marketing among other stuff.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
bume, you should distinguish between claims that come from someone who is an an apparent scam artist, and official documents released by an authority. When a private subject claims he has diplomas from an University, or that his technology is based there, it does in no way mean it is true. All the references, names of associates and customers, diplomas, patents, and other documents shown on all these websites are quite probably at least partially faked. If a crook tells he worked for an Academy of Science, even if you prove he is a criminal, it in no way means that he really did something for the Academy, or that the Academy was involved in any way. You can be pretty sure that the images of the plane underwater in BoB presented by Mr. Kursa never passed through the nuclear reactor of the Sevastopol University. Or do you really believe that? On my mind, they were made in Photoshop, and there is no reason to think it was done in the University.

The only partially relevant evidence is the PDF from the Black Sea University Network presenting the dubious work of Dr. Gokh. But we would need to verify its authenticity - who knows how it landed there, and why. Neither the websites of the University, not the websites of the Russian or Ukrainian Accademy of Science show any trace of Dr. Gokh, and list none of his work, despite him claiming to be an academics.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
Vitava business partners and partnership agreements with Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy and Ministry for environmental Protection of Ukraine:

http://www.vitava.si/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=54&lang=en

First expert in the list:

"Dr. Gokh Vitaly, the member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, the author of the geoholography method"

Second expert in the list:

Dr., prof. Kovalev Nikolay, the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy and Industry (Ukraine), expert in the field of geoholography method use.

Is geoholography the same as "Deep Vision" or is it used to refer something else as well? Here they are linked so that "Deep Vision" is the brand name:

http://ukrainemade.com/technologies/332/

This is all the same nonsense. When you look at the various websites you will see the same terminology. Here is one common statement that always appears almost verbatim: "Method safety – the method is environmentally appropriate and completely safe for people.". Just weird wording, even the legit geophysical companies that sound the ground with EMP or the LIDAR companies that zap the ground with lasers don't use that kind of strange language. As an exploration scientist I key into anything that claims to identify everything as a scam. Even if there were direct detection methods, a method for identifying petroleum would be quite different than a method for identifying metals as their physical properties are very different.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
This one might be just a customer for GeoResonance, or a bit closer partner than just that, not sure.
One of the men in the board of Tellus, is in the same time on the board of GeoResonance. I forgot now it it was Pope, or someone else. But to me they appear to be daughter-mother companies. I may be wrong, but since they sell the technology too, I 'd keep them on the list.

Seems to be a market place for Ukrainian companies so unclear to which extent they are participating, definitely marketing among other stuff.
Yes, TradeUE is the marketing website, but the Ukraine Made Llc sells the technology of Dr. Gokh, hence I believe they belong there too
 

bume

Member
bume, you should distinguish between claims that come from someone who is an an apparent scam artist, and official documents released by an authority. When a private subject claims he has diplomas from an University, or that his technology is based there, it does in no way mean it is true. All the references, names of associates and customers, diplomas, patents, and other documents shown on all these websites are quite probably at least partially faked. If a crook tells he worked for an Academy of Science, even if you prove he is a criminal, it in no way means that he really did something for the Academy, or that the Academy was involved in any way. You can be pretty sure that the images of the plane underwater in BoB presented by Mr. Kursa never passed through the nuclear reactor of the Sevastopol University. Or do you really believe that? On my mind, they were made in Photoshop, and there is no reason to think it was done in the University.

The only partially relevant evidence is the PDF from the Black Sea University Network presenting the dubious work of Dr. Gokh. But we would need to verify its authenticity - who knows how it landed there, and why. Neither the websites of the University, not the websites of the Russian or Ukrainian Accademy of Science show any trace of Dr. Gokh, and list none of his work, despite him claiming to be an academics.

If I link to some site it doesn't mean I believe everything it says. Basically all what we can find are claims that can be either true or false. The more we find corroborating evidence the more likely it is to be true.

There you have a claim that Gokh is a member, that is a starting point in trying to verify it. So far I haven't seen that many claims from these companies that have been proven to be lies. Yes their tech seems to be bs but I mean these details like using a nuclear reactor. If that Black Sea University Network document and others that contain the same stuff aren't all fakes, it seems that thing is actually being used. So I don't assume it's all true but neither do I assume it's all lies unless there's something concrete to point to that direction.

Also, I don't trust any "authority" blindly either, many of those have been proven to be biggest liars of them all. It's a matter of looking if info from multiple sources matches.
 

bume

Member
You can be pretty sure that the images of the plane underwater in BoB presented by Mr. Kursa never passed through the nuclear reactor of the Sevastopol University. Or do you really believe that? On my mind, they were made in Photoshop, and there is no reason to think it was done in the University.

In my opinion, now that GeoResonance seems to be going into some sort of turtle defense mode, the best way to get it to spill the beans is for somebody to push a finger into that turtle's ass by telling what we think we know and let them either confirm or deny it. If all these Ukraine, Gokh etc. connections were published, I believe they would have to answer to that in some way. Then we might actually know if it was just a photoshop or not.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
Geotech Technology Ltd
Resonance Exploration Limited
Well, I found traces to business registrations of these companies in the UK, but both have been dissolved, and they had no websites that I could check in the Wayback Machine to verify whether they sold the same crap, so I let them off the list.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
.
The methods they allegedly used, cannot work, at least not in the way they describe.
Content from External Source
That's asserted a lot here, but I still don't see why repeating it a lot in itself makes it true.
This is either a deliberate denial of the facts, or you haven't read the thread. I think overwhelming evidence has been presented that it cannot work the way they describe.
Please review the following posts. Allow for some redundancy.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ves-it-may-have-found-mh370.3558/#post-103398
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ves-it-may-have-found-mh370.3558/#post-103650
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ves-it-may-have-found-mh370.3558/#post-103675
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-3#post-103905
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-3#post-103914
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-3#post-103924
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-4#post-103970
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-4#post-103972
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-4#post-103991
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-4#post-104016
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-4#post-104021
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-4#post-104041
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-5#post-104106
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-5#post-104112
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-5#post-104114
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-5#post-104129
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...-may-have-found-mh370.3558/page-5#post-104149
 

txt29

Senior Member.
If I link to some site it doesn't mean I believe everything it says. Basically all what we can find are claims that can be either true or false. The more we find corroborating evidence the more likely it is to be true.

There you have a claim that Gokh is a member, that is a starting point in trying to verify it. So far I haven't seen that many claims from these companies that have been proven to be lies. Yes their tech seems to be bs but I mean these details like using a nuclear reactor. If that Black Sea University Network document and others that contain the same stuff aren't all fakes, it seems that thing is actually being used. So I don't assume it's all true but neither do I assume it's all lies unless there's something concrete to point to that direction.

Also, I don't trust any "authority" blindly either, many of those have been proven to be biggest liars of them all. It's a matter of looking if info from multiple sources matches.
Bume, you did not understand what I meant. You started to conclude from diverse claims published on Gokh's websites that the University is at the root, and that the Russian Academy of Science is involved (in another post you even mentioned the Ukrainian ministry or the Government). Now it does not matter at all whether you (or me) trust the authorities or not, or whether they are involved or not. You simply cannot conclude a third party is involved unless the subject confirms it, or you have other evidence. That's why I tell we cannot know whether the University or Academy of Science has any active relation to Dr. Gokh or to any of his work at all, because the only evidence available are claims from Gokh and his partners (who we strongly suspect of being serial liars). Only the document on the BSUN website has some weight, but much less than if Dr. Gokh or his work was shown on the website of the University or the Academy of Science. With all this I do not want to tell that I trust the authorities. I just tell your conclusions were without any factual base, and that you are jumping the gun too fast here.
 

bume

Member
Bume, you did not understand what I meant. You started to conclude from diverse claims published on Gokh's websites that the University is at the root, and that the Russian Academy of Science is involved (in another post you even mentioned the Ukrainian ministry or the Government). Now it does not matter at all whether you (or me) trust the authorities or not, or whether they are involved or not. You simply cannot conclude a third party is involved unless the subject confirms it, or you have other evidence. That's why I tell we cannot know whether the University or Academy of Science has any active relation to Dr. Gokh or to any of his work at all, because the only evidence available are claims from Gokh and his partners (who we strongly suspect of being serial liars). Only the document on the BSUN website has some weight, but much less than if Dr. Gokh or his work was shown on the website of the University or the Academy of Science. With all this I do not want to tell that I trust the authorities. I just tell your conclusions were without any factual base, and that you are jumping the gun too fast here.

I'm not basing my opinion of the university's involvement on just a few sources that might be in Gokh's control. As I said, there have been enough of those references that I have good enough reason to believe they are not all just fakes. That BSUN site is one, there are the news articles that state so etc. Sure it might be that all of those are lies, but in that case GeoResonance for example has already done enough to cause itself a lawsuit. I'm not too eager to believe they would have been so stupid as to for example name that university as their partner and tech owner in that published article as it is clear that might have serious consequences if they just made that up. Unless proven otherwise, it's easier for me to believe that was true.

As far as the roles of those academies and ministries are concerned, all I have said is that there have been references to them but it's unclear to which extent they are involved. There have been claims of approval by the Ukrainian Academy of Science, and I repeat those are claims and I have stated it so, and if that can be shown to be a lie, good, because then those who claimed so would be proved to be liars and that would be a clear outcome.
 

RobertNC

New Member
I wonder how many of GeoResonance's "23 researchers, including 5 professors and 12 PhDs" or executives are following this thread. It would be fascinating to have their input into these discussions. (I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for this to happen.)
 

bume

Member
Just to add, if you are thinking about what of these findings could be actually published and what can be proven, in my opinion the correct way would be to publish it so that this is what GeoResonance themselves have said. The burden of proof is clearly on their side if they for example have clearly stated that the university is involved.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
Given the number of companies that are related to the GR "method" I have to wonder if this involves a whole generation of students of the "method". I think the method itself has has been thoroughly debunked here (unless someone can show scientific evidence that elemental signatures migrate from beneath the ocean or land into multispectral imagery), but the students of this pseudoscientific method may well have been indoctrinated and actually believe it works. They send images back to the mothership in Sevastopol, get results back and these results have to be correct because a professor (Dr. Gokh?) trained all of them. There does seem to be a web of companies using variations of this method (I am pretty convinced that "microleptons" come from the same school).
 

txt29

Senior Member.
I'm not basing my opinion of the university's involvement on just a few sources that might be in Gokh's control. As I said, there have been enough of those references that I have good enough reason to believe they are not all just fakes. That BSUN site is one, there are the news articles that state so etc.
All the news articles listed here in this thread did nothing else that exactly quoting or interpreting Mr. Kursa and Mr. Pope of GeoResonance, so their value as evidence is zero. As I already wrote, the only document that is partially relevant is the BSUN conference PDF, but then again we know nothing about the scrutiny for publishing on the website of BSUN. The Sevastopol University may be well behind it, but so far I did not find any signals except of the BSUN document that links Dr. Gokh's work to the University or to the Academy of Science. I did not even find that he ever worked or studied there. It is also possible that he is no Doctor of Science at all - until now I did not find any evidence of it. And as I already wrote, I searched for any available links also in Cyrillic on Russian and Ukrainian websites. In contrary, any serious website in Russian language where Gokh was mentioned, distanced from him quite clearly.
 

bume

Member
All the news articles listed here in this thread did nothing else that exactly quoting or interpreting Mr. Kursa and Mr. Pope of GeoResonance, so their value as evidence is zero. As I already wrote, the only document that is partially relevant is the BSUN conference PDF, but then again we know nothing about the scrutiny for publishing on the website of BSUN. The Sevastopol University may be well behind it, but so far I did not find any signals except of the BSUN document that links Dr. Gokh's work to the University or to the Academy of Science. I did not even find that he ever worked or studied there. It is also possible that he is no Doctor of Science at all - until now I did not find any evidence of it. And as I already wrote, I searched for any available links also in Cyrillic on Russian and Ukrainian websites. In contrary, any serious website in Russian language where Gokh was mentioned, distanced from him quite clearly.

I don't know any direct links between Gokh and that university either. That's not what I'm saying. Gokh apparently invented this stuff and that university seems to use those inventions, but that doesn't mean Gokh is involved in their operations. I haven't actually thought at any point that Gokh would be personally involved, not at the moment at least. Might be, but I haven't seen any indication of that.

As for he being a member of the academy, a quick search for membership lists didn't find anything, so that might very well be a lie. Or maybe he has been at some point but his recent theories might have been enough to cancel that membership and remove him from the lists...

What I don't really understand is why it is so hard for you to believe that the university would be heavily involved. Despite it's been clearly stated so and despite that we know there has been scientific interest to this Kirlian stuff in the eastern bloc etc. In my view that involvement isn't surprising at all and the background story of where this tech came from sounds very believable and matches the history of that university as a navy college etc.

See for example this article about Kirlian photography: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirlian_photography

Kirlian photography was used extensively in the former Eastern Bloc. For example, in the 1970s, Romania had 14,000 state-sponsored scientists working on the technique
Content from External Source
 

flashcoder

New Member
I dont know if you have seen this, probably yes, but I cant stop myself from linking it here when there is this discussion about Gokh as a credible scientist: http://www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru/gokhe1.htm
I mean, browse through it, the torsion fields and pyramids, etc... aside that feels like a book for pre-school children, like teenagers page on MySpace years ago.. A serious scientist? Really?
 

txt29

Senior Member.
What I don't really understand is why it is so hard for you to believe that the university would be heavily involved.
Well it is more difficult to imagine that a scientist would risk his reputation and his career in taking part in a scam, than at an independent entrepreneur or at a retired person (that I suspect Dr. Gokh may be). The more difficult it is to imagine that the entire University would put their name behind such scam. But still I do not exclude it at all. It is well possible, but before jumping to that conclusion I'd like to see some evidence other than claims from Gokh and his friends, or their claims mediated by journalists. I may perhaps find the truth though - I just discovered some traces of documents about the complex "Poisk" referred to by Gokh & co. It may take some time to get to some relevant information (it is all in Russian), but perhaps I find out a bit more.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
I dont know if you have seen this, probably yes, but I cant stop myself from linking it here when there is this discussion about Gokh as a credible scientist: http://www.vitaly-gokh.narod.ru/gokhe1.htm
I mean, browse through it, the torsion fields and pyramids, etc... aside that feels like a book for pre-school children, like teenagers page on MySpace years ago.. A serious scientist? Really?
There is much more from Gokh, just look back some of the previous posts. It is the culprit of this thread that Gokh is a charlatan and I do not think that anyone here has any doubts about it (including Anti-Spin). I have no idea where you saw telling someone that Gokh is a serious scientist.
 
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NoParty

Senior Member.
Kirlian photography was used extensively in the former Eastern Bloc. For example, in the 1970s, Romania had 14,000 state-sponsored scientists working on the technique
Content from External Source

Far be it for me to question the competence of an alleged 14,000 state-sponsored Romanian scientists (though that incredible figure comes from a writer--Julie Cohen--who offers no credible source) but even if Romania had been fascinated by the future potential possibilities of Kirlian photography during the Cold War (when, to be fair, hundreds of wacky things were investigated), how would that trump the fact that none of the health prediction qualities, etc. of Kirlian photography ever panned out?

http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Kirlian photography.html
 

bume

Member
Well it is more difficult to imagine that a scientist would risk his reputation and his career in taking part in a scam, than at an independent entrepreneur or at a retired person (that I suspect Dr. Gokh may be). The more difficult it is to imagine that the entire University would put their name behind such scam. But still I do not exclude it at all. It is well possible, but before jumping to that conclusion I'd like to see some evidence other than claims from Gokh and his friends, or their claims mediated by journalists. I may perhaps find the truth though - I just discovered some traces of documents about the complex "Poisk" referred to by Gokh & co. It may take some time to get to some relevant information (it is all in Russian), but perhaps I find out a bit more.

If we think of the 3 main alternatives:

1) Every link to that university is a blatant lie/forgery
2) The university is behind a purposeful major scam
3) The university (or rather some group within it) is involved but they just honestly believe to bad science

1 would mean a wider effort conspiring against that university and GeoResonance for instance risking it all by publicly naming and lying about it. 2 would mean a purposeful fraud by who knows how many people at the uni. Hence in my mind number 3 is the easiest (to believe) explanation. Considering the background, I don't see that one is far fetched.

I already mentioned this example of pseudo-science at Princeton for comparison. Or actually it seems Princeton has distanced itself from this nowadays but it still originates there and runs within their domain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Consciousness_Project

That one isn't just some mushroom trip of dr. pothead in the 70s but something that has been running since 1998 and is active as we speak. Here's for example what the "global consciousness" has to say about MH370:

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/malaysia.air.html

It basically shows definitely that when you gather the outcome of random number generators into a graph, you get random results. Still those who have wasted their time for that in that university aren't likely scammers but actually believe there might be something to it and their work doesn't mean the entire organization would be behind it.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
Hm, so I did not read all, and did not search for discussions or critics about the documents yet, but it really looks like the "geoholografic method" of Dr. Gokh & co. is being taken seriously by many Ukrainian institutions. I found the method published or referred to by several institutions (National Ukrainian Library, journal of geophysics Geografika, Kiev Polytechnic Institute, and even the Ukrainian Academy of Science). All of them point to the facility called 'Geo-Holographic Complex "Poisk" (Seach)' at the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy. Some of the documents are linked below. They are all in Russian, so you will need to use Google Translate and some persistence to understand something of it, but as far as I could see till now, they really describe the process in the way we already know - the path from optical imagery over holography exposed to radiation and then processed by the Kyrlian photography.

http://www.dopovidi.nas.gov.ua/2011-07/11-07-19.pdf
http://www.dopovidi.nas.gov.ua/2012-09/12-09-16.pdf
http://visnyk-mmi.kpi.ua/images/stories/pdf/55/223.pdf
http://www.geology.com.ua/ru/випуски/2009-рік/2009-3-випуск/

A sample Google translation of one of the documents - there are quite some outrageous claims there:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisnyk-mmi.kpi.ua%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fpdf%2F55%2F223.pdf
 
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bume

Member
Far be it for me to question the competence of an alleged 14,000 state-sponsored Romanian scientists (though that incredible figure comes from a writer--Julie Cohen--who offers no credible source) but even if Romania had been fascinated by the future potential possibilities of Kirlian photography during the Cold War (when, to be fair, hundreds of wacky things were investigated), how would that trump the fact that none of the health prediction qualities, etc. of Kirlian photography ever panned out?

http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Kirlian photography.html

I hope you didn't get the idea of me actually believing that stuff?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Okay I get it now - they claim to be monitoring the world's consciousness through a network of instruments that register effects at moments of worldly significance - ie,

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/story.html
 

Cwmcoch

New Member
Even supposing that this technology works (highly implausible) or that "GeoResonance" are cheating by applying established methods to multispectral imagery of the Bay of Bengal (plausible), it seems extremely unlikely that they could image the seabed in this depth of water. The supposed location lies on the Ganges-Brahmaputra deep-sea fan, formed of sediment deposited over millions of years by rivers draining the Himalaya. The modern surface plume from these rivers will be transporting riverine sediment rich in Al and Ti, as well as traces of the other elements quoted, some derived from pollution sources. In addition, the Bay of Bengal in winter is affected by the infamous Atmospheric Brown Clouds (ABCs) of air pollution blown out over the ocean from the Asian continent. These contain particles of soil dust, smoke and urban emissions, partially obscuring the signal from the surface.
 

DaveL

New Member
Out of all these companies supposedly using this "technology", does any one of them actually have any in-house, direct-hire scientific expertise in Nuclear Magnetic Resonance? Or RF electronics? Or do they all just rely exclusively on what they're told by the SNUNEI?
 

bume

Member
Hm, so I did not read all, and did not search for discussions or critics about the documents yet, but it really looks like the "geoholografic method" of Dr. Gokh & co. is being taken seriously by many Ukrainian institutions. I found the method published or referred to by several institutions (National Ukrainian Library, journal of geophysics Geografika, Kiev Polytechnic Institute, and even the Ukrainian Academy of Science). All of them point to the facility called 'Geo-Holographic Complex "Poisk" (Seach)' at the Sevastopol National University of Nuclear Energy. Some of the documents are linked below. They are all in Russian, so you will need to use Google Translate and some persistence to understand something of it, but as far as I could see till now, they really describe the process in the way we already know - the path from optical imagery over holography exposed to radiation and then processed by the Kyrlian photography.

http://www.dopovidi.nas.gov.ua/2011-07/11-07-19.pdf
http://www.dopovidi.nas.gov.ua/2012-09/12-09-16.pdf
http://visnyk-mmi.kpi.ua/images/stories/pdf/55/223.pdf
http://www.geology.com.ua/ru/випуски/2009-рік/2009-3-випуск/

A sample Google translation of one of the documents - there are quite some outrageous claims there:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisnyk-mmi.kpi.ua%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fpdf%2F55%2F223.pdf

So that's definitely a further indication they actually believe to that science and those things are actually performed, not just photoshopped.

Did you find any further indication if Gokh (apparently also spelled as Goh) is or has been an actual doctor and/or professor and if so, from which field and institution?
 

Mark Thomas

New Member
Looking at the other elements they mention:


This makes zero sense. The suggest that the plane has crashed, aligned perfectly north-south, with no significant fuel leakage, and yet they can detect the fuel in the fuel tanks, and the copper wiring, and the internal engine components, all through the skin of the plane.

Again, they claim they have detected copper wiring (along the entire length of the plane) via multispectral images through 500m of water and the aluminum skin of the plane.
Seeing is believing.
 

bume

Member
Out of all these companies supposedly using this "technology", does any one of them actually have any in-house, direct-hire scientific expertise in Nuclear Magnetic Resonance? Or RF electronics? Or do they all just rely exclusively on what they're told by the SNUNEI?

That is a good question. My hunch is that most of those companies do not have that much expertise, or even staff, and what they do is mostly sales and marketing.

In some countries the business registries contain information such as numbers of staff as public information everyone can get. What is the situation in Australia for instance? Is it possible to check somewhere how big a company GeoResonance is?
 

Mark Thomas

New Member
The story, the company's claim to be able to use magnetic resonance imaging, presumably somehow projected from a satellite (formerly secret Soviet military technology only they have access to) as well as nineteen other undisclosed technologies (doubtless including a TriCorder and talking computer that says, "Working...") analyzed by a "team" of unnamed scientists to detect copper wiring, fuel inside wing tanks or ceramic engine components 600' underwater from space with resolutionas good or better than the optical resolution of geo-survey satellites is so absurd that I cannot stop the belly laughing. Anybody who is knowledgeable of the technology knows it took decades of development and magnetic field strengths of 1T along with kilowatts of induced gradient and RF fields at a distance of a foot or so just to be able to align the spin axis of hydrogen atoms and get the millimeter resolution to peer into your body with an MRI scanner, so achieving an equivalent order of magnitude or two better resolution from space with a secret satellite is a joke and a half. One other thing... the 777 as most modern airliners, uses as little copper as possible in wiring, larger conductors often being aluminum or copper-clad aluminum, as well as extensive use of fiber optics... oh, why waste my time, it's a bunch of crap. As with most of these types of operators, their claims of past applications or success are far flung in remote places about the globe (Congo, etc) and impossible to validate, the few identifiable "customers" such as Mr. Pope always seeming to be partners in their adventures. Just a couple scammers, most likely pushing a Pink Sheet stock and trying to cash in on the misery of others.
Keep up the good work !
 

txt29

Senior Member.
So that's definitely a further indication they actually believe to that science and those things are actually performed, not just photoshopped.
Oh, bume, please stop doing premature conclusions all the time. Why would a conman have to believe into his own scam? And what brought you to the conclusion that the images are not photoshopped? Do you believe now too that their satellite photos exposed by the nuclear reactor and Kyrlian photography can detect diverse metals and hydrocarbons buried deep in the ocean, or what makes you believe they are real and really in such high resolution without any local presence? By claiming "those things are actually performed" you seem to believe that. All the state institutions may be covering them and may keep their eyes closed because they profit from it too, or because they try to keep the West in believing they really can detect any smallest weapon worldwide regardless where and how deep it is hidden.

Did you find any further indication if Gokh (apparently also spelled as Goh) is or has been an actual doctor and/or professor and if so, from which field and institution?
His name is "Гох" : Г=G, о=o, х = kh. The х has no single letter equivalent in English, but the sound is close to 'kh'. In Mexican Spanish it would be 'x' too like in 'Mexico' [mekhiko]. 'Goh' is just the machine transliteration by Google Translate, that does not know better. I did not find any CV or further details about the career of Gokh, but there are references to his work on websites of different state institutions.

In some countries the business registries contain information such as numbers of staff as public information everyone can get. What is the situation in Australia for instance? Is it possible to check somewhere how big a company GeoResonance is?
Check out the registry of Australian commerce. The link is on the 1st or 2nd page here in this thread. You will need to pay a small fee though to get to any details. From the basic record it is only clear that the company's turnover did not excess 72,000 AUD last year, so it is quite possible that besides Kursa and Pope there is nobody else, but that means nothing, because they are just resellers of the services allegedly provided by Poisk at SNUNEI. I am pretty sure their turnover will be in millions this year, though. Look at the number of fools believing them. And they give good guarantees - they will not let you pay anything if they do not find anything on your ground. As David already wrote, they'll only ask for a small percentage of their founds. The actual work costs them close to nothing (I still believe that it is done in Photoshop and not in the nuclear reactor), so they risk nothing and can live more than fine even if they "find" something only in one case of hundred, which is statistically more than sure.
 
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txt29

Senior Member.
BTW, if GeoResonance's technology (better told the technology of Poisk at SNUNEI) really works, then I'd gladly hire them for finding the thousands of tons of gold lost in sunken Spanish galleons that lie on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean somewhere. Seeing their capacity of finding a plane in 2,000,000 km² within few days, it should take not much more than that. I'll pay them once they find it.

I really do not understand how somebody with at least a last small bit of common sense can believe in their crap. If their technology worked, and they could detect the most expensive materials anywhere worldwide, even 5000m deep as they claim, they'd be no millionaires, or billionaires, but minimally trillionnaires. They'd also rule the world, because the military advantage to detect the defenses, movement, and the strategy of the enemy would be unbeatable.
 
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David Coulter

Senior Member.
Even supposing that this technology works (highly implausible) or that "GeoResonance" are cheating by applying established methods to multispectral imagery of the Bay of Bengal (plausible), it seems extremely unlikely that they could image the seabed in this depth of water. The supposed location lies on the Ganges-Brahmaputra deep-sea fan, formed of sediment deposited over millions of years by rivers draining the Himalaya. The modern surface plume from these rivers will be transporting riverine sediment rich in Al and Ti, as well as traces of the other elements quoted, some derived from pollution sources. In addition, the Bay of Bengal in winter is affected by the infamous Atmospheric Brown Clouds (ABCs) of air pollution blown out over the ocean from the Asian continent. These contain particles of soil dust, smoke and urban emissions, partially obscuring the signal from the surface.

Doesn't matter. You can not measure elemental composition of "cold" materials without an intense energy source such as X-Rays (XRF) or a high powered laser (LIBS) and these tools need to be within cm's of the target material. I say "cold" because obviously astronomers can detect the elemental composition of stars, but these are hot emitters of EMR. As pointed out by others the entire NMR theory put forth by Georesonance doesn't hold water, it is not a tool for identifying elemental composition.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
BTW, if GeoResonance's technology (better told the technology of Poisk at SNUNEI) really works, then I'd gladly hire them for finding the thousands of tons of gold lost in sunken Spanish galleons that lie on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean somewhere. Seeing their capacity of finding a plane in 2,000,000 km² within few days, it should take not much more than that. I'll pay them once they find it.

This is one of many obvious logic flaws in the GR claims. If you had a secret tool that can identify "Any commodity. Any tenement. Anywhere." (www.georesonance.com), why would you share it? Just become the richest person in the World. Although I did know a Soviet block scientist that told me if you try and use psychic powers for personal gain you immediately lose your powers - I guess there is a special board of former Soviet psychics that monitors and enforces that ;)
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
Seeing their capacity of finding a plane in 2,000,000 km² within few days, it should take not much more than that. I'll pay them once they find it.

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That would be a good financial arrangement given their inability to find the plane thus far. I suspect though that they would refuse your terms.
 

bume

Member
So that's definitely a further indication they actually believe to that science and those things are actually performed, not just photoshopped.

Did you find any further indication if Gokh (apparently also spelled as Goh) is or has been an actual doctor and/or professor and if so, from which field and institution?

Oh, bume, please stop doing premature conclusions all the time. Why would a conman have to believe into his own scam? And what brought you to the conclusion that the images are not photoshopped? Do you believe now too that their satellite photos exposed by the nuclear reactor and Kyrlian photography can detect diverse metals and hydrocarbons buried deep in the ocean, or what makes you believe they are real and really in such high resolution without any local presence? By claiming "those things are actually performed" you seem to believe that. All the state institutions may be covering them and may keep their eyes closed because they profit from it too, or because they try to keep the West in believing they really can detect any smallest weapon worldwide regardless where and how deep it is hidden.

Sorry but now it's you who's jumping into premature conclusions. First of all, I didn't really conclude anything but just said it's a further indication that (Sevastopol) actually can believe that their tech works based on your findings that:

it really looks like the "geoholografic method" of Dr. Gokh & co. is being taken seriously by many Ukrainian institutions

Why wouldn't they believe/take it seriously if other institutions in the region do that too? As far as I can see, we now have evidence of that stuff being taken seriously, but hardly any evidence of them being conmen or this being a purposeful scam. So who's jumping into premature conclusions then? As I said, I'm trying to look the most probable explanation based on the available data and so far in my opinion that points to the direction of misguided science. If it is shown that they have definitely lied against their own knowledge, then I'm more than willing to change that view.

What I meant with "those things are actually performed" means that if those people (Sevastopol) actually believe that tech works, and they are just misguided scientists and not fraudsters, there's a good chance they actually do that processing they have claimed if they believe that creates real results. Just like those Princeton Global Consciousness guys do.

If I believe they believe in their tech, that in no way means that I would believe that tech.
 
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txt29

Senior Member.
When I wrote that it looked like they took him seriously, it means that I found they reprinted some of his works. It means he is not totally excluded from the scientific community as I would expect, taken all his deluded theories. Whether they believe in the Poisk technology or just pretend it, is an entire different question. That nobody with the smallest bit of intelligence could believe that such technology could work, tells me rather that they back it only because of profit, or because of diversion. If it worked, they'd be all rolling in gold, platinum, rare-earth elements, diamonds, etc. since a long time. Until now, I did not see a single indicator that would point to the possibility that the images presented by GR could be "real", coming from their nuclear-Kirlian process as you still seem to believe.

EDIT: told in simpler terms: either the images GR presented are real (made by the Poisk equipment), or they are not. If they are not, they were faked. If they were faked, there is no way the creator of the images can believe they are real. Did I tell it clearly enough? Do you really believe the images of the different metals underwater were real? If so, then I really do not understand you at all.
 
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