• MH370 speculation has become excessive recently. Metabunk is not a forum for creating theories by speculation. It's a forum for examining claims, and seeing if they hold up. Please respect this and keep threads on-topic. There are many other forums where speculation is welcome.

Debunked: Exploration company "Georesonance" believes it may have found MH370

David Coulter

Senior Member.
It bugs me that after all this time talking about this, we still don't have answers to several key questions about the technology they are claiming to have used for the detection of that plane. Such as was it done with satellite images or were planes involved, analog or digital images, from which sat, how old were the pictures, ... The thing is that many possible combinations of answers would already prove it can't work. They can't search the entire ocean with planes within any reasonable time, they can't get any "hidden data" from digital pictures, they likely couldn't have access to recent analog sat photos etc. The odd thing isn't that they haven't given such answers, but that apparently nobody has asked them. Without those answers it's also pretty much impossible to know if we are even arguing about the impossibility of right technologies.

It doesn't bug me at all. They are not going to provide any details. I suppose that I could contact them pretending to be someone interested in their technique, but that is a total waste of my time.

The answers for the GR use of multispectral imagery to see through any material are provided by the equation: d(λ, χ) = λ/4πχ. All you need to do is look for tables of the complex index of refraction for various materials, the equation will provide the depth of penetration as a function of wavelength. I have provided an example for water for people to play with (easily done in Excel).

Here is a link with a number of materials (some are Fortran subroutines, make me feel nostalgic!):
http://reflib.wikispaces.com/

This is the underlying equation of EM wave propogation:

Wave Equation with Dispersion:

E = E0 exp(i(kz – ωt)) exp(-ωχz/c) (Martin, 2004)

E Electric field in a lossy medium (V/m)
E0 Reference field (V/m)
z Distance (m)
t Time (s)
ω Frequency (Hz)
c Speed of light (m/s)
χ imaginary part of index of refraction
k vector wavenumber (1/m) (note: k = ωn/c)
Complex Index of Refraction:
η = n + iχ

exp(i(zωn/c – ωt)) is the wave propagation (e raised to an imaginary number produces a "sine" wave)
exp(-ωχz/c) is an exponential decay (e raised to a negative number produces an exponential decay)

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It doesn't bug me at all. They are not going to provide any details. I suppose that I could contact them pretending to be someone interested in their technique, but that is a total waste of my time.

Exactly. It bugs me more that people are wasting time talking about them. It looks like a scam, there's no evidence that it is not a scam, the evidence would be easy to produce, but they have not. So any speculating about the nature of their technology is only helping their scam.
 

bume

Member
Exactly. It bugs me more that people are wasting time talking about them. It looks like a scam, there's no evidence that it is not a scam, the evidence would be easy to produce, but they have not. So any speculating about the nature of their technology is only helping their scam.

Yet you have an entire website for discussing such matters...
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Yet you have an entire website for discussing such matters...

No. The website is for debunking claims of evidence. Not endlessly speculating. It's for pointing out things (claims of evidence) that are wrong. Not inventing imaginary ways to excuse those errors.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
No. The website is for debunking claims of evidence. Not endlessly speculating. It's for pointing out things (claims of evidence) that are wrong. Not inventing imaginary ways to excuse those errors.

The GR types annoy me (a lot of them exist in the exploration industries), so I keep posting evidence to prove they can not do what they claim. There is no way to prove they are charlatans without a lot of physics, so I will post physics - also gives members with an interest some real data to play with. It is a good thing that whenever someone googles "georesonance" the second entry is "debunked" by metabunk.org.
 

bume

Member
No. The website is for debunking claims of evidence. Not endlessly speculating. It's for pointing out things (claims of evidence) that are wrong. Not inventing imaginary ways to excuse those errors.

The thing is, with so many fundamental questions open, in many cases the current debunking is based on assumptions rather than known facts. And many of those assumptions seem to be based on the idea that the GR people are not just scammers but idiots as well. It might be an easy explanation, and a popular one, but a bit too simplistic in my opinion. For example, these are some of the popular points for debunking them:

- They claimed to have located the Armenia ship, which is not true. If they lied on purpose as the assumption goes, could they really be so incredibly stupid as to name a well known shipwreck that anyone could check from Wikipedia to see that's untrue? (It's probably endless speculation there's indication in that Sevastopol document that it's a translation error.)

- They are using easily available digital sat photos which they convert to analog for getting some hidden data with their magic Kirlian tech. It doesn't take a genius to understand that the conversion can't possibly generate any additional data that is not present in the digital form. And yet so many seem to assume that the GR people, and a whole bunch of people at Sevastopol, no matter how misguided or dishonest they are, but still with some scientific background, are just so stupid. (Again, it's probably endless speculation there's plenty of places stating explicitly that only analog pictures are used for such tech.)

- The whole locating a plane claim is a pr stunt and they know there's nothing in there. Why on earth would they give an exact location then that's relatively easy to check, and would prove they were completely wrong and all their claims about the accuracy of their technology are false?

This whole thing was pretty quickly deemed debunked based on such arguments as well as some misrepresentations of what NASA experts have said, incorrect depth of that assumed location (although less than what GR have stated), assumptions on their fancy Kirlian pics being just photoshops due to perfect south-north alignment (which seem to have been done for illustrative purposes, as there's a screenshot of the presentation showing no such alignment, or plane outline) etc. Yes, the conclusion itself is quite certainly correct and their tech is bunk, but it doesn't make questionable premises right.

Such issues might also bite back, as when noticed, they not just decrease the credibility of the conclusions that are based on them, but can even cause legal issues as was discussed earlier when GR threatened to sue some parties, in which case it's not the best of situations to claim they are scamming or lying without having the actual evidence to back that up. Also if someone actually goes to that location at some point and finds something (else than MH370), it would be a huge pr victory for them and something else for this site. I myself wouldn't be too surprised if they weren't complete idiots but just knew there's something in there with the help of something else than magic. The idiot principle just doesn't sound believable enough for me.

The reason people keep talking about them is that they haven't actually been proven wrong with arguments that would hold the scrutiny. Some things yes, and David for example has meticulously argued the impossibility of using multispectral imaging to what they claim to have done, but that still misses the confirmation they are basing their magic tech on that in a way that would validate the assumptions.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
I was curious what happened to GeoResonance since last year, so have checked their website today, and it appears they did not drop the ball yet. They just published a new press release a short time ago (on 7th March 2015). They still go on with their hoax. I guess the publicity provided to them by the media served them well, so they try to push a bit more again.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
Funny that the refer to a team of "European scientists" when it is well known that the technology is out of Sevastopol. I think that is part of Russia now. PR's still are more rant than information......
 

txt29

Senior Member.
Well, Russia is geographically in Europe (at least its western part), and Crimea certainly is in Europe, so I would not dispute that claim.
 

spf

New Member
And push it some more they will... To the tune of £1.3 million for the search in the Bay of Bengal. Andre Milne "aviation technology expert" needs this money to search for the plane. If you watch the video he refers to a mysterious wreckage in the bay then slides of the infamous Geo Resonance images are splashed on the screen. He hopes to scam sorry I mean crowd source the funds because it touches him.

Whether or not he is affiliated with Geo Resonance I don't know but he is having a good shot at keeping the dream alive!


http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...d-could-be-mh370/story-fnizu68q-1227318736789
 

txt29

Senior Member.
It looks like the MH370 hoax of GeoResonance was so profitable for them, that they pull it out again and again. Now they have a totally revamped website, and published a new Press Release a month ago:

http://www.georesonance.com/20160306_Press_Release.pdf
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
It looks like the MH370 hoax of GeoResonance was so profitable for them, that they pull it out again and again. Now they have a totally revamped website, and published a new Press Release a month ago:

Given the price of metals and petroleum I doubt their business is booming. New press release has the similar ranting tone to the last few.
 

liefdagboek

New Member
Some time had passed now, since the last reply on this post. The web site of Georesonance.com is still live. But the only update I can find is a yearly update on the search for MH370. This 'company' apparently has no other use or projects going on worth telling about.
 
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