Debunk this tripple dare (impossible)

Mick said:
But WHY do you think it's "wingspray"? Seeing as it looks like a contrail, then what suggests it is not a contrail?
Altitude and pressure are nothing directly to do with it. It's all to do with the temperature and humidity.
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Indeed There need to be HIGH humidity. u can check the relative humidity in your area. Even when it is 20% i saw persistent trails. Blatent in the face.
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
Even mainstream media reported on this
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Most media has a profit motive, and interest in conspiracy theories is presently rising. That means more viewers / hits if you make a program about them.

Some programs have been made about the phenomenon because people are interested in it, which cannot be used to support it's factual basis. Can you point to any corporate investigative news program which has investigated chemtrails and proved the conspiracy theory is a reality?

Questions were asked in UK parliament and countless documentaries made about the Millenium Bug prior to the millenium, and millions of pounds spent proofing against it. Didn't make the perceived threat any more real when the time came.
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
Indeed There need to be HIGH humidity. u can check the relative humidity in your area. Even when it is 20% i saw persistent trails. Blatent in the face.
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Do you think that local weather on ground will be the same 6 miles up in the atmosphere? or is it possible it could be different humidity levels?
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
WW3:...."
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When was the last time someone wasn't threatening someone??

Chemtrails: a plane burns kerosine as fuel reulting in CO2 + H2O. Many times we see X coming out of wingtips, not engines, which raises questions. Yes vortex is possible but what if it's not.
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When is that?

there is also fuel dumping to consider - although that isn't all that common either.

So then we have barium / aluminum rain and blood test .. Yes some tests might be fake, but that does not mean all tests are fake.
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I don't know of any tests that are actually FAKE per se.

What is missing is any connection between the tests and any supposed aircraft spraying. Aluminium is the 3rd most common material on the earth's crust. Strontium and barium both occur naturally, all of them blow in the wind as dust all over the world. Barium is also a constituent in brake pads for cars and diesel fuel for trucks.

No one actually shows that any given blood or water test is connected to "chemtrails".

In addition there is no evidence of any equipment on hundreds of aircraft to "spray" this stuff - no tanks on the aircraft, no deliveries of chemicals, no strange pipes connecting to aircraft. airliners are crawled over by hundreds of people every day - mechanics, pilots, ground service staff - but the only "whistleblowers" aer a couple of anonymous accounts that sound like rubbish to people who do the same job - eg I am an aircraft mechanic and I have read a supposed "inside account" writen by a mechanic and it is quiet inaccurate in a number of technical respects.

There is also no evidence of any fuel being doctored - you can buy a 200 litre drum of Jet A1 fuel and have it analysed - the allowed constituents are published as Def Std 91-91 - anything not in that document would be suspect - no-one seems to have done this, or if they have they have not publicised it.

Even mainstream media reported on this
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and being reported in the MSM makes it true??

U can PM me when the collapse happens on what to do, but by then it will be too late. But the state & FEMA & DHS will help u for sure, in a way they see fit. cheers
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No - I'll point out your prediction publically in April 2013 and wonder why it hasn't! :)
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
. So then we have barium / aluminum rain and blood test .. Yes some tests might be fake, but that does not mean all tests are fake. Even mainstream media reported on this
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I do not know of any fake tests...just tests that were inaccurately reported or misinterpreted...

http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/137-Shasta-Snow-and-Water-Aluminum-Tests?highlight=shasta



Which tests do you think are the most convincing?
 
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External Quote:
Timothy Geithner, Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder and other bush operatives were fired
As far as I know, they are all still in their jobs aren't they? And when was Hillary Clinton a Bush operative?
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
because when u look it under a microscope at 7000 magnification it is everything but dead skin and has pathogen attributes.
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If this is a real phenomenon and if there is a pathogen, I think characterizing it in simple terms would be useful. Is it a bacteria, virus, parasite, fungus, etc? Has it been grown in culture? If bacteria, is it gram-negative or gram-positive? Is it known? Has it been isolated and linked to the illnesses you talk about? These are all necessary pieces of information that aren't at all difficult to figure out. Has Carnicom tried to answer any of these yet? You're not making much of a case so far here.
 
MikeC said:
apparently WW3 has been oput on hold because Obama got elected.

External Quote:
The Dragon family and governments of the non-Western world acted decisively to get Barak Obama re-elected as president because a Romney victory would have meant World War 3, according to multiple sources.

Obama was cut off of his election finances by the Pope and the Queen three weeks before the election and would have lost if the Dragon family and others did not step in and finance him, according to CIA and Asian government sources. Obama returned the favor by complying to a request to purge Bush/Nazi operatives from the government and the military, the sources say.

That is why Timothy Geithner, Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder and other bush operatives were fired. The purge at the pentagon and agencies included CIA Chief David Petraeus, Rear Admiral Charles M.

Gaouette, US Army General Carter Ham, Brigadier General Jeffery A. Sinclair, and US Navy Commander Joseph E. Darlak, according to CIA and other agency sources.

Obama now has a totally different set of handlers and teleprompter script writers than he did in his first term. The agenda he is expected to follow is to set the stage for a swords to plowshares transition of the military industrial complex.

He is also expected to oversee the dismantling of the Federal Reserve Board.
Paragraphing is as per the original!
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I can also write a piece with no source whatsoever. And it in my knowledge Obama will still start WW3. He is intervening in Syria and supporting alqaida(no joke) aka freedomfighters or 'the opposition'. drone bombing in pakistand and yemen.. It might be lil delayed with obama ye. If u watch history a major economic collapse happens, then a war stars, same shit all over.
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
I can also write a piece with no source whatsoever.
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I would argue that you already have - you have made multiple claims without bothering the evidence fairy! At least the guy who wrote the piece I quoted says he has "multiple sources" - it is right there in the first para - but apart from that I put the 2 of you on moer or less equal footing!!

So you are correct - it is easy to write something sensational without sources - fiction writers do so all the time.

The "problem" is when people start claiming that such writing is actually the truth - such as you have.

At that point I feel perfectly entitled to ask "what is your evidence for that?", and also entitled to examine the evidence and decide for myself whether it is good evidence or not.

And when I find evidence to be good or bad I also feel entitled to say as much.
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
vortex is possible but what if it's not.
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The only times when wake (or tip) vortices stop is either when an airplane is made to NOSE OVER in a ZERO G maneuver, when the wings themselves stop generating lift, or immediately after landing, when the nose wheel hits the runway.

Vortices occur BECAUSE the wing is generating LIFT. They are ALWAYS THERE, even if sometimes they aren't visible.

Aerodynamic trails (when temperature and humidity allow) are always bordered by intense fine white tip vortices, or the plane is in trouble, and falling out of the sky...

No exceptions to this are possible. Ever.
 
Dan Wilson said:
If this is a real phenomenon and if there is a pathogen, I think characterizing it in simple terms would be useful. Is it a bacteria, virus, parasite, fungus, etc? Has it been grown in culture? If bacteria, is it gram-negative or gram-positive? Is it known? Has it been isolated and linked to the illnesses you talk about? These are all necessary pieces of information that aren't at all difficult to figure out. Has Carnicom tried to answer any of these yet? You're not making much of a case so far here.
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This has all been in if u took time to research carnicoms website. *** The dental sample also put to grow culture *** with positive results. producing more fibers. What u don't expect in a normal dental sample.. It grows like a fungus, is a parasite, bacterial effects on host, a mix of different things. Yes carnicom did all that research. http://www.carnicominstitute.org/html/articles_by_date.html and start with morgellons: first observations.
 
Jazzy said:
Aerodynamic trails (when temperature and humidity allow) are always bordered by intense fine white tip vortices, or the plane is in trouble, and falling out of the sky...

No exceptions to this are possible. Ever.
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Like i said, even when relative humidity is 20% we still have the pseristent trails / vortices. what does that mean?
 
Dan Wilson said:
If this is a real phenomenon and if there is a pathogen, I think characterizing it in simple terms would be useful. Is it a bacteria, virus, parasite, fungus, etc? Has it been grown in culture? If bacteria, is it gram-negative or gram-positive? Is it known? Has it been isolated and linked to the illnesses you talk about? These are all necessary pieces of information that aren't at all difficult to figure out. Has Carnicom tried to answer any of these yet? You're not making much of a case so far here.
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Agreed, I've seen no evidence that the supposedly causal organism has been successfully isolated and identified. I'm sometimes told by Carnicom believers that it's been found to be an "unidentifiable, artificial plant life", which is frankly nonsensical.

Furthermore, it does not demonstrate that something is a pathogen because it "looks like a bacterial [sic], it grows like a fungus, it is a parasite because it uses its host for energy etc. It can also be a virus." We are normally host to a wide variety of microorganisms that cause us no significant problems, and even some that are beneficial, mutualistic symbionts. Many others are opportunists that will take advantage of host tissues that are compromised by some other factor.

To demonstrate pathogenicity, Koch's Postulates are still commonly used as a guide, although it's generally understood that not all of them are necessary or feasible to be met in all cases, and the postulates have been modified in practice to take modern molecular methods into account.

I haven't seen that Carnicom has made any effort to demonstrate pathogenicity of anything he's found in samples.
 
MikeC said:
I would argue that you already have - you have made multiple claims without bothering the evidence fairy! At least the guy who wrote the piece I quoted says he has "multiple sources" - it is right there in the first para - but apart from that I put the 2 of you on moer or less equal footing!!

So you are correct - it is easy to write something sensational without sources - fiction writers do so all the time.

The "problem" is when people start claiming that such writing is actually the truth - such as you have.

At that point I feel perfectly entitled to ask "what is your evidence for that?", and also entitled to examine the evidence and decide for myself whether it is good evidence or not.

And when I find evidence to be good or bad I also feel entitled to say as much.
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I should make a phat ass paper and shuv it again on the internet. I can back up my claims or i can say i have 'multiple sources' :p.
i wasn't bothered to look it all up again and post it because u guys probably only read half or not and start rampaging how bad it is.
The thing is, Carnicom did all the research. http://www.carnicominstitute.org/html/articles_by_date.html If u focus on the morgellons only and start with 'first observations' and go up from there. It is a lot reading but its interesting! Someone should make a summary of it..
 
Belfrey said:
Agreed, I've seen no evidence that the supposedly causal organism has been successfully isolated and identified. I'm sometimes told by Carnicom believers that it's been found to be an "unidentifiable, artificial plant life", which is frankly nonsensical.
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If u wont only read clifford carnicoms research instead of bashing it all the time..
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
Indeed There need to be HIGH humidity. u can check the relative humidity in your area. Even when it is 20% i saw persistent trails. Blatent in the face.
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Take a look how humidity differeneces in altitude rigth now in the air above you...

This is a so called "vertical cut" - available at http://www.wetter3.de/vertikal.html

www.abload.de_img_tempugr7g.png


With this vertical cuts you can predict if the next days will be a "Chemtrail-Day" or not.

And I will try to explain you, how you can predict such a "Chemtrail-Day"...

First, you have to select a vertical cut on the left side. For Belgium, only "50N" (Latitude), or "5E" (Longitude) wold make any sense.

On the rigth side, select "Modellwetter, rel. Feuchte, potentielle Temp."
(Weathermodell, relative Humidity, potential Temperature)

The graphic shown on the rigth side displays relative humidity ("relative Feuchte", presented in Percent) above Euorpe in color codes, see the Legend on the rigth. Deep-blue means "very dry". Dark-gray means "Very wet"

The Y-Axis stands for the altitude (presented here as "air pressure" in hectopascal - It´s a graphic for meteoroligst, these guys are more interested in the pressure than in the real altitude).
Airplanes normaly flying around 200-350 hPa

The X-axis is the "vertical cut" through the heaven above Europe.

If you have choosen the Chart "50N", it shows a virtual cut from the Atlantic in the left to the Ukraine in the East. What happens over Belgium is shown beetween 2°E to 6°E - as I marked it in this example above with a yellow Box.

If you have chosen "5E", the vertical cut is going from north (in the left) to south (in the rigth).
What´s important for Belgium would be between 52°North and 49° North

You can browse with the Arrow-Bottons in 6-hour-steps up to the next 7 Days in the future (remember: this is a calculated Computer-model used by Meteorologist to make a Weather-forecast, not a real mesurement)

While browsing through this prediction-Data, do you see the "Bubbles" with totaly different humidity floating through different altitudes?! Do you see the "layers" at high-Altitudes, mostly much more "wet" then the air under them?!

Belgiums, be prepared for a massive Chemtrail-Attack on next Friday/Saturday and some "nice Contrails" on Wednesday - if the predictions made by GFS on http://www.wetter3.de/vertikal.html are rigth.
 
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ChemtrailsBelgium said:
This has all been in if u took time to research carnicoms website. *** The dental sample also put to grow culture *** with positive results. producing more fibers. What u don't expect in a normal dental sample.. It grows like a fungus, is a parasite, bacterial effects on host, a mix of different things. Yes carnicom did all that research. http://www.carnicominstitute.org/html/articles_by_date.html and start with morgellons: first observations.
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I looked at the tests he is performing and it doesn't seem like he is really providing anything that would support any kind of conspiracy. First of all, it growing like a spore, being a parasite, etc. doesn't make much sense. Either he has contamination issues, you don't understand what you're talking about, or he hasn't characterized it well enough. I wouldn't doubt contamination since he doesn't seem to have the means to use proper aseptic techniques.
The bottom line is, he hasn't actually identified what exactly this pathogen is. You have to do that before you even think about making a connection to chemtrails. Even then, it is a huge leap to say that chemtrails exist and are causing this. Again, you do not have a case here. I think everyone here has done a good job of demonstrating that.
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
They are capable of creating persisntent trails even when conditions are not right. Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4ZkAaPKfg0. Or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v4VeInO8-Q in WW2.
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the 2nd one is not WW2, is is 1923, it has been covered on here before - see here for more discussion - it is a smoke screen - a common military device used on land sea and air and not a chemtrail.

So t IS possible. The question is then: Is there an evil organisation that want to make us suick / kill us?
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no - the question is how do you know that conditions were not right?
 
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ChemtrailsBelgium said:
This has all been in if u took time to research carnicoms website. *** The dental sample also put to grow culture *** with positive results.
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Carnicom put some stuff in white wine and called it a "culture".

Real scientists do not use wine as a culture.

Carnicom wasn't doing science, but he may be making vinegar!

You canot point to any real professional science that Carnicom has ever done.


That is why real scientists ignore him. I think he likes to be ignored, so I generally ignore him.
 
Jay Reynolds said:
You canot point to any real professional science that Carnicom has ever done.

That is why real scientists ignore him. I think he likes to be ignored, so I generally ignore him.
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His work doesn't come close to passing the giggle test if you have even a basic scientific background. Real scientists are obviously not in his target audience. But he's apparently able to convince people like our Belgian friend that he's doing "hardcore science".
 
MikeC said:
the 2nd one is not WW2, is is 1923, it has been covered on here before - see here for more discussion - it is a smoke screen - a common military device used on land sea and air and not a chemtrail.

no - the question is how do you know that conditions were not right?
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Are u denying that the 'gurada clip' is not an on/off switch of the trail? Its not because we don't know what the conditions are, that they are right. For me, and others, it looks on/off trail. And it would be ignorant to think with our technology and advances ins sciences we cant make a simple lingering trail.. the 1923 clip then is just too illustrate we can ..
 
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ChemtrailsBelgium said:
Are u denying that the 'gurada clip' is not an on/off switch of the trail?
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I don't think anybody is denying it is off/on switching of the trail, I think the discussion is about what is causing the on/off switching of the trail.

And it would be ignorant to think with our technology and advances ins sciences we cant make a simple lingering trail.
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It looks like a normal contrail to me at first sight. Most of the things used for things like skywriting, or creating a smoke screen (like in the other movie, although that is hard to see due to the quality) create a trail immediately from the source like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6CvCYPT0E&feature=related
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/RAF_Red_Arrows_-_Rhyl_Air_Show.jpg

You are talking about 'creating persistent trails' but this isn't shown at all in the Garuda clip, the trails are only shown for a couple of seconds/short distance, nothing can be said about how persistent they are at all, it is just your own interpretation...
 
Jay Reynolds said:
Carnicom put some stuff in white wine and called it a "culture".

Real scientists do not use wine as a culture.

Carnicom wasn't doing science, but he may be making vinegar!

You canot point to any real professional science that Carnicom has ever done.


That is why real scientists ignore him. I think he likes to be ignored, so I generally ignore him.
Click to expand...

So u are saying that http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs7.htm the 3rd picture is an ordanairy string from your mouth (from the wine stringy theory u posted) and what are u sugesting the internal organelles are? Also it looks exectly tha same as the spider chemwebs. So our muoth is producing spider silk?? please..
 
Miss VocalCord said:
I don't think anybody is denying it is off/on switching of the trail, I think the discussion is about what is causing the on/off switching of the trail.


It looks like a normal contrail to me at first sight. Most of the things used for things like skywriting, or creating a smoke screen (like in the other movie, although that is hard to see due to the quality) create a trail immediately from the source like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6CvCYPT0E&feature=related
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/RAF_Red_Arrows_-_Rhyl_Air_Show.jpg

You are talking about 'creating persistent trails' but this isn't shown at all in the Garuda clip, the trails are only shown for a couple of seconds/short distance, nothing can be said about how persistent they are at all, it is just your own interpretation...
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So u really think creating persistent trails is in now days impossible?
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
So u are saying that http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs7.htm the 3rd picture is an ordanairy string from your mouth (from the wine stringy theory u posted) and what are u sugesting the internal organelles are? Also it looks exectly tha same as the spider chemwebs. So our muoth is producing spider silk?? please..
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There's no way of saying what he's looking at there - given that these are samples from someone's mouth, it could well include all sorts of food particles. I can't see any clear organelles such as nuclei, mitochondria, etc. Carnicom himself certainly has no expertise to identify what he's looking at, he's guided only by his imagination. The red circles which supposedly identify "Chlamydia-like organisms" show absolutely nothing as far as I can see - the circles might as well be randomly placed for all they contain.
 
Just a small hint about Carnicom...

As you can see here http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs7.htm carnicom claims in his pictures magnifications from "approx. 5000x" to "approx. 7000x"...

Sorry, optical Microscopes are limited to around 1500x magnification, more isn´t possible, because by more magnification a pixel would be smaler than the wavelength of the visible light. This is called Abbe-Limit see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction-limited_system#The_Abbe_diffraction_limit_for_a_microscope

I don´t trust Carnicoms claims, that his simpel-blurred pictures are made with such a magnification.
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
So u are saying that http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs7.htm the 3rd picture is an ordanairy string from your mouth (from the wine stringy theory u posted) and what are u sugesting the internal organelles are? Also it looks exectly tha same as the spider chemwebs. So our muoth is producing spider silk?? please..
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I agree with Belfrey. There are plenty of things that it can be. The wine test already demonstrated that you can have string like bits in your mouth. Your mouth is also home to plenty of bacteria and tissue and muscle fibers. With the information known about those pictures, they could be images of any one of those things. I don't see why you insist that they are something we don't know exists and are connected to another thing that fairly certainly does not exist. Has anyone looked at "chemwebs" under a microscope and identified what they are made of?
Here are some images of what we can normally expect from dead cheek tissue. Imagine what these would look like stained with wine and peroxide. Carnicom's pictures don't really look too out of the ordinary.

http://path.upmc.edu/cases/case42/images/micro7.jpg

http://insanit.net/blogpics/my_dead_cheek_tissue.jpg
 
ChemtrailsBelgium said:
Are u denying that the 'gurada clip' is not an on/off switch of the trail?
Click to expand...

I don't believe I said anything of the sort - are you trying to make up "evidence"??

Its not because we don't know what the conditions are, that they are right. For me, and others, it looks on/off trail.
Click to expand...

Looks like an on/off trail to me too. Why can't that be because the conditions are right?

And it would be ignorant to think with our technology and advances ins sciences we cant make a simple lingering trail.. the 1923 clip then is just too illustrate we can ..
Click to expand...

That is a smoke trail - do you not understand that smoke and contrails are 2 different things, or are you going to go down teh road "they are all chemical trails"? Because that last one is an old meme oft used by CT's who want to get any admission at all that "chemtails" exist - even if it requires including water bombing from firefighting aircraft and agricultural spraying....
 
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