COVID-19 Coronavirus current events

Fallingdown

Member
Aye? you've added the 120 million infected to the 184 million vaccinated
So you're saying theres zero overlap between the two pools of people, not very likely is it?
Good point. There are close to 44 million infections that have been verified. That still puts us around 65%. And the number is likely much higher.

I’ve pretty much given up on this argument. I think I’m running into confirmation bias .

Based on a survey of 7000 individuals who were infected with COVID-19. Less than 1% of those individuals have been reinfected. And 7000 Individuals is a pretty good estimate of the general reinfection rate . Especially if you add the other 7000 in the study .

But apparently that’s irrelevant.

A281312B-BE2D-4F8E-9C76-0452442269B6.jpeg
7005C55B-2B1B-4F3A-A83B-C186657B61BE.jpeg
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
Based on a survey of 7000 individuals who were infected with COVID-19. Less than 1% of those individuals have been reinfected. And 7000 Individuals is a pretty good estimate of the general reinfection rate . Especially if you add the other 7000 in the study .

But apparently that’s irrelevant.
It`s not the whole story because more of these people will be infected as time passes, and as the virus mutates. All you know about is a specific group of people during a specific time span with a specific exposure to a specific mix of the strains of the virus, and all of this affects the reinfection rate, and all of this is constantly changing.
That is why you can't generalize this into a prediction and expect us to accept it.

But I'll happily bet you that Covid cases in the US are going to rise again this winter.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
Should I use the smallpox numbers where vaccine rates are similar as well?
yes. you should compare apples with apples, not apples with oranges.
OK, in that case by 1885 there were zero deaths from smallpox in Sweden thanks to the vaccine, so flu is worse?

Anyway, the point was that herd immunity through natural infection rather than vaccination would result in numerous preventable deaths on the order of a hundred deaths per 100K per year in the case of smallpox and COVID-19, which is an order of magnitude larger than the mortality rate from seasonal flu.

As far as seasonal flu...
Article:
Interrupting transmission in most influenza seasons (>90%) would require vaccination of 60–100% of the population who responds well to vaccine, healthy people aged 2–64 years, depending on vaccine efficacy assumptions.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
There is no excuse. i'm only talking about mandates. and asking where the line should be drawn, or if it should be drawn at all for anything.
The U.S. still reports over 1700 COVID-19 deaths per day and over 20,000 ICU patients. I can't find what percent of them are unvaccinated, but the CDC reports only 4333 total COVID-19 deaths and 13,775 hospitalizations out of all breakthrough cases, so I would guess that most new COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations are preventable so we're safely over the line for COVID-19 vaccine mandates. The numbers are starting to fall now, but they may go up again in the winter like last year.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
OK, in that case by 1885 there were zero deaths from smallpox in Sweden thanks to the vaccine, so flu is worse?
the small pox vaccine was 'better' than the flu or covid vaccine. as far as preventing people from getting smallpox at all.

trust me, if you have to pick between getting the flu, covid or smallpox... smallpox should be your last choice. flu has a death rate of .1%, covid 1-2%, small pox 30% for adults and up to 50% for infants.


so we're safely over the line for COVID-19 vaccine mandates
fair enough. and i take it you dont feel flu vaccines should be mandatory to work (have a job) since only a few people die each year? which is also fair enough, as my question on mandates is 'where do we draw the line?'
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
I was asked Friday how I felt about California Governor Gavin Newsom's
new declaration that all in-person school kids would require vaccination.

There's a possibility that the question was a bit of a "gotcha" as I'm
known locally for my rabid libertarianism and
"You live your life, stay the hell out of mine" mentality. But I can't say for sure.

At any rate, my public response was polite and measured, stressing that the
current pandemic circumstances don't fit the normal "live and let live" circumstances that shape my life-long desire to be left alone to do as I wish...to the greatest 'social contract' extent reasonable.

But in my head, I was thinking of DUI: Namely, when a person drives under the
influence, we don't treat it as a right because there are likely, potentially fatal consequences for the rest of us. To me, having some unvaccinated students
in a classroom of maybe 35 students is asking a professor (or elementary teacher) to take a lot of
risk, every day. I've never had any tolerance for drunk driving, and my seeing
unvaccinated people demanding to be included in in-person instruction seems
similar to me. Am I missing something? Is it a flawed analogy?
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
I've never had any tolerance for drunk driving, and my seeing
unvaccinated people demanding to be included in in-person instruction seems
similar to me. Am I missing something? Is it a flawed analogy?
Drunk drivers are intoxicated and no longer sound enough of mind to make sensible decisions.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Drunk drivers are intoxicated and no longer sound enough of mind to make sensible decisions.
Agreed...does that make it more acceptable?

The lethal danger they pose to more responsible people justifies legally requiring them to drive sober, yes?
So I'm wondering what the anti-vax justification would be...

And I'm asking these things sincerely...not trying to be a smartass.
With driving, one has to initially demonstrate competence (written and road)
and DUI is illegal because you are likely below that basic competence.

But there's no test as to whether you're ever capable of understanding the
scientific evidence for vaccines...
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
the
current pandemic circumstances don't fit the normal "live and let live" circumstances that shape my life-long desire to be left alone to do as I wish...to the greatest 'social contract' extent reasonable.

but you are doing what you wish.

and my seeing
unvaccinated people demanding to be included in in-person instruction seems
similar to me. Am I missing something? Is it a flawed analogy?

i personally think that all states should continue both in school options and home school remote learning options, for now. this way older and/or sickly teachers can just teach the online kids, and parents nervous about their kid bringing home a virus from school can keep their kids home.

i say it this way, because in our cities it is the minority communities whose children are being most hurt (falling further behind) by not being in school. I'm talking pre High School grades here. But this is my personal aversion to 12 and under kids having to get vaccinated talking and me assuming quite a few parents are going to feel similarly.
High schoolers and older can get the vaccine, if they get heart inflammation at least they are old enough to get help for themselves.

Plus if a nice chunk of our kids were capable of learning from home remotely, that would thin out the classrooms and buses for everyone else (ie. distancing). I can't quite figure out why my state isn't offering that option.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
Agreed...does that make it more acceptable?

The lethal danger they pose to more responsible people justifies legally requiring them to drive sober, yes?
So I'm wondering what the anti-vax justification would be...

And I'm asking these things sincerely...not trying to be a smartass.
With driving, one has to initially demonstrate competence (written and road)
and DUI is illegal because you are likely below that basic competence.

But there's no test as to whether you're ever capable of understanding the
scientific evidence for vaccines...
Fine analogy. To drive, one has to pass a vision test and wear corrective lenses if necessary.

Here's another analogy about sending children to school unprotected.

Article:
“Lions led by donkeys” was a phrase that described the bravery of the common solider compared to the ineptitude and indifference of the generals who sent them to their deaths.

Though the vast majority of children do well with COVID-19, not all do. Tens of thousands of children have been hospitalized, and between 25%33% of them need ICU level care. Even though the Delta variant doesn’t seem to cause worse outcomes for children, its increased infectivity means children are suffering more now than ever before. A recent CDC report found that “Weekly COVID-19–associated hospitalization rates among children and adolescents rose nearly five-fold during late June–mid-August 2021”. There have been over 4,661 cases of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C), and children with this condition are often extremely sick, needing ICU-level care. Over 500 children have died from the virus, including some teens without underlying conditions who died after the vaccine was available to them. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, 102 children have died of COVID-19 since August 12th, 2021.
Fortunately, the vaccine is working. The CDC found that “Hospitalization rates were 10 times higher among unvaccinated than among fully vaccinated adolescents”.

While children with COVID-19 obviously have a much higher chance of a good outcome than a young man on a World War I battlefield, lions are again being led by donkeys.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
But there's no test as to whether you're ever capable of understanding the
scientific evidence for vaccines...
i think it's more that most don't believe the scientific evidence for vaccines, like most chemtrailers dont believe the scientific evidence for contrails.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
understanding the scientific evidence for vaccines..
they understand it just fine, and the same goes for the anecdotal evidence by health care workers observing that the Covid wards are filled with unvaccinated who also seem to be the only ones dying. They just do not believe it.
(It's a little like how drunk people know they're drunk, but still believe they're ok enough to drive.)

Once you've been conditioned to ignore the information in plain sight, and to instead build your own narrative from "clues", learning becomes very difficult.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
Agreed...does that make it more acceptable?
No, but the cause for the bad decision-making that leads to DUI is usually self-inflicted ethanol poisoning; and that differs from anti-vaxxing.

If QAnon promoted drunk driving, we'd hear "you can still drive while you're drunk, wake up sheeple", get some sovereign citizen rhetoric on how the DUI laws don't apply to you if you print your own driver's license, and learn that DUI accidents happen "with" alcohol instead of being caused by it, and that the news pictures of car crashes are staged by crisis actors and filmed in Hollywood because "they" want to take away your freedom to drive that's guaranteed by the constitution!
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
they understand it just fine...
Surely some do...but I suspect many do not:
Little scientific understanding + a mind for conspiracy theories
+ blindly trusting charlatan politicians
+ already being an enemy of the science of climate change, evolution, etc....

Don't get me wrong...I'm still not saying that this would excuse the
"drunk driving" of insisting that unvaccinated students jeopardize the
lives of everyone on campus...
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
already being an enemy of the science of climate change, evolution, etc....
I don't know what labeling people as "enemies" signifies?

I do think most creationists understand how evolution works in theory, they just don't believe that it happened.

I've had arguments with people who knew how the Greenhouse effect was supposed to work, but did not believe it is causing the warming.

Because actual knowledge (contrary to belief) is never 100% certain, there's always an opening for doubt which allows holding on the comfortable belief.

And the same psychology is at play with all of the Covid issues.

(And that's even without going to the people who KNOW the truth but mislead everyone else.)
 

Agent K

Senior Member
its like almost 700,000 now.

i'm not sure i agree with "significant enough". the vast majority are over 80 years old. the next vast majority have multiple underlying health issues (often from personal choice issues).

In Los Angeles County, the median age of 24 fully vaccinated patients who died between May and July was 78 years, compared to a median age of 63 years for 176 unvaccinated patients who died. That means half were younger than the median age.

Article:
Among hospitalized persons and persons admitted to an intensive care unit, the median age was higher among vaccinated persons (median = 64 years, interquartile range [IQR] = 53.0–76.0 years; median = 64 years, IQR = 54.0–76.0 years, respectively) and partially vaccinated persons (median = 59, IQR = 46.0–72.0; median = 65, IQR = 57.0–80.0, respectively) than among unvaccinated persons (median = 49, IQR = 35.0–62.0; median = 56, IQR = 41.0–66.0, respectively) (p<0.001). A lower percentage of fully vaccinated (1.2%) and partially vaccinated (2.0%) persons were admitted to a hospital after their SARS-CoV-2 positive test result date compared with unvaccinated persons (4.2%). A lower percentage of deaths (0.2%, 24) occurred among fully vaccinated persons than among partially vaccinated (0.5%, seven) and unvaccinated (0.6%, 176) persons (p<0.001). Death investigations determined that six of the 24 fully vaccinated persons who died had immunocompromising conditions, including HIV infection, cancer (i.e., prostate, pancreatic, lung, or leukemia), and liver transplantation, and that the median age was higher among vaccinated (median = 78 years, IQR = 63.5–87.5 years) and partially vaccinated (median = 74, IQR = 58.0–80.0) persons than among unvaccinated persons (median = 63, IQR = 51.5–79.5) (p = 0.01).

Article:
Among adults and the oldest teenagers who were hospitalized with COVID-19 from May 1 to Aug. 18, the median age of unvaccinated or partially vaccinated patients was 51, according to data presented at a briefing in late August. That’s notably younger than the median age of fully vaccinated patients in the hospital with COVID-19, which was 66.

“We really are seeing just many, many people that are unvaccinated — young people, in their 20s, 30s and 40s — that are landing in the hospitals right now,” Vohra said.

In Orange County, “the overall pattern is that it’s the 30-, 40-, 50-year-olds who are getting hospitalized, compared to previous surges when it’s really been 65 and over,” Dr. Regina Chinsio-Kwong, a deputy health officer, said at a briefing last week.

Article:
Oregon, Breakthrough case report - September 30, 2021

To date, 4.6% of all known breakthrough cases have been hospitalized (n=1,168), and only 0.9% have died (n=218). The median age of the people who have died is 80.5 (range: 34-101).

Article:
The median age of Massachusetts vaccine breakthrough cases who died has been 82.3 years, according to the state Department of Public Health’s figures as of last week.
The data is yet more evidence that people who are older and people with underlying conditions should go get a booster dose as soon as possible, infectious disease experts told the Herald on Monday.

Article:
Unvaccinated Montanans are five times more likely to be hospitalized and three times more likely to die from COVID-19 than fully vaccinated individuals, according to a new state report.
The median age among unvaccinated individuals hospitalized with COVID-19 between July and September was 60 years old, while the median age among hospitalized vaccinated people with COVID-19 was 75 years old.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
??? By definition? Or am I missing the point?
The point is that the data contradicts deirdre's unsourced claim:
i'm not sure i agree with "significant enough". the vast majority are over 80 years old. the next vast majority have multiple underlying health issues (often from personal choice issues).
of the unvaccinated, the majority of those hospitalized or dying is is younger than 70, by definition of the median and the data K has quoted.
 

econ41

Senior Member
Yes by definition.
I've used the joke often as a lighthearted interjection when suitable. Either in the form "Do you know that half of Australians are below average intelligence which half of Americans are above average." Or, more often than not, I reverse the polarity and change the nationality if I judge the "audience" capable of "taking the mickey".

Whilst hoping they are not pedantic about "Mean", "Median" and "Mode" -- because protecting against pedantry can spoil the weak joke.
 

econ41

Senior Member
The point is that the data contradicts deirdre's unsourced claim:

of the unvaccinated, the majority of those hospitalized or dying is is younger than 70, by definition of the median and the data K has quoted.
Thanks - I was too lazy to read the thread sequence through with brain in gear.

I have no difficulty managing the probability based arguments but the last few months has seen far too many blatant errors. Whether deliberate "spin" mendacity or simply errant maths. Mostly structural - for example wrong definitions of comparative sets has been one type of common error. And I need to read the full argument to see where the base errors come into play.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
The point is that the data contradicts deirdre's unsourced claim:

of the unvaccinated, the majority of those hospitalized or dying is is younger than 70, by definition of the median and the data K has quoted.
I started replying, but the CDC data doesn't make sense. Can you make sense of it?

Go here:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

Scroll down to the graph. The current wave is about half the size of the winter wave, that makes sense.

1633417833865.png

Click on the right arrow below it to see the table.

1633417880261.png

Scroll right to 8/28/2021

1633418106671.png

Why does the table show 25,468 COVID-19 deaths when the graph showed about half of that? Compare to the table entry for 1/9/2021, 25,953 deaths. And the total deaths are much higher on 8/28/2021 than on 1/9/2021, and it's not what the graph of total deaths shows.

1633418683647.png

I think the data for 8/28/21 was multiplied by 2 by mistake.
 
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Agent K

Senior Member
The point is that the data contradicts deirdre's unsourced claim:

of the unvaccinated, the majority of those hospitalized or dying is is younger than 70, by definition of the median and the data K has quoted.

At the peak of the winter wave in the U.S. on the week of January 9, 2021, people older than 75 accounted for 59% of COVID-19 deaths. A smaller percentage were over 80, not the "vast majority."
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

Since then, most seniors got vaccinated, and the delta wave hit, so at the peak of the current wave, on the week of September 4, 2021, there were half as many COVID-19 deaths (49.7% of the winter peak), and only 35% of them were older than 75.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
I think the data for 8/28/21 was multiplied by 2 by mistake.
All values in the entire column are even, that's an impossible anomaly. My guess is that the column was duplicated by mistake, and that this display aggregates the numbers. (That's what it does when you fold rows.)

I think downloading the data sets may be more useful, but I can't do that right now.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
All values in the entire column are even, that's an impossible anomaly. My guess is that the column was duplicated by mistake, and that this display aggregates the numbers. (That's what it does when you fold rows.)

I think downloading the data sets may be more useful, but I can't do that right now.
The raw data looks right. 12,734 COVID-19 deaths, which is exactly half of the incorrect value. So the week after that one was worse, with 12,904 deaths. So despite the vaccine coverage, there were 12,904 deaths that week, most of them probably preventable by vaccines, since only 35% were older than 75.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Week-Sex-and-Age/vsak-wrfu/data

1633423943220.png
 

Agent K

Senior Member
the discussion is vaccine mandates, so the area to look is is before vaccines. obviously vaccines prevent deaths, noone is arguing that.


so here, i'm ok using Agent K's source:

1633442558309.png




1633442813767.png
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

Take a closer look at the first graph after de-selecting "All Ages", the black curve.

1633445300098.png

Watch the relative peak of the curves change between the winter wave and the current wave. The top curve is now the 65-74 age group, not the 75-84 or the 85+ group. The 85+ group is now only the fourth from the top. What's disturbing is that while the peaks of the 55+ age groups dropped, all the younger groups down to 15-24 had a higher peak than during the winter wave. That did not have to happen, and it doesn't have to happen during the next winter wave.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Watch the relative peak of the curves change between the winter wave and the current wave. The top curve is now the 65-74 age group, not the 75-84 or the 85+ group. The 85+ group is now only the third from the top. What's disturbing is that while the peaks of the 65+ age groups dropped, all the younger groups down to 15-24 had a higher peak than during the winter wave. That did not have to happen, and it doesn't have to happen during the next winter wave.

yes i'm aware of all of that.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
yes i'm aware of all of that.
Well I didn't know that the peaks of the younger groups actually grew compared to the winter wave. I don't know how the area under the curve will compare, since the current wave isn't over yet.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Well I didn't know that the peaks of the younger groups actually grew compared to the winter wave. I don't know how the area under the curve will compare, since the current wave isn't over yet.
oh. yea Delta is a bugger. I don't even want to think about what would have happened to the older age groups if the vaccine hadn't rolled out prior.
 

NorCal Dave

Member
I was asked Friday how I felt about California Governor Gavin Newsom's
new declaration that all in-person school kids would require vaccination.

There's a possibility that the question was a bit of a "gotcha" as I'm
known locally for my rabid libertarianism and
"You live your life, stay the hell out of mine" mentality. But I can't say for sure.

At any rate, my public response was polite and measured, stressing that the
current pandemic circumstances don't fit the normal "live and let live" circumstances that shape my life-long desire to be left alone to do as I wish...to the greatest 'social contract' extent reasonable.

But in my head, I was thinking of DUI: Namely, when a person drives under the
influence, we don't treat it as a right because there are likely, potentially fatal consequences for the rest of us. To me, having some unvaccinated students
in a classroom of maybe 35 students is asking a professor (or elementary teacher) to take a lot of
risk, every day. I've never had any tolerance for drunk driving, and my seeing
unvaccinated people demanding to be included in in-person instruction seems
similar to me. Am I missing something? Is it a flawed analogy?
I like your "You live your life...." mentality. I lean "libertarian-non-Christian-quasi-Republican" if there is such a thing. But, as you say, we're all part of a community or society and have our responsibilities.

The thing with the kids being vaccinated is, that we (society) already demand a full battery of vaccines before any child can enter school. We just had to dig up vaccine records for our adult son who is starting grad school or he's not allowed on campus.

I can see where the analogy with DUI can get strained. The risks of DUI are known while some could argue that the COVID vaccines are new, created with a new technology, not fully vetted and long term complications are, by definition, not understood. While I disagree, I can see the logic in the argument at least.

Of course the last person to tell me they weren't getting a vaccine because they "worried about the long term effects" was in their late 60's and lighting up, yet another, cigarette. As @Mendel said, some simply choose not to believe.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
I like your "You live your life...." mentality. I lean "libertarian-non-Christian-quasi-Republican" if there is such a thing. But, as you say, we're all part of a community or society and have our responsibilities.

The thing with the kids being vaccinated is, that we (society) already demand a full battery of vaccines before any child can enter school. We just had to dig up vaccine records for our adult son who is starting grad school or he's not allowed on campus.

I can see where the analogy with DUI can get strained. The risks of DUI are known while some could argue that the COVID vaccines are new, created with a new technology, not fully vetted and long term complications are, by definition, not understood. While I disagree, I can see the logic in the argument at least.

Of course the last person to tell me they weren't getting a vaccine because they "worried about the long term effects" was in their late 60's and lighting up, yet another, cigarette. As @Mendel said, some simply choose not to believe.
Nice response.
I've known people who insisted that they were "just fine" driving with a
blood alcohol level well over the legal limit. Obviously that's not in line
with the best evidence, as "these vaccines are unproven" isn't.
Just spitballin'
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
some could argue that the COVID vaccines are new, created with a new technology, not fully vetted and long term complications are, by definition, not understood.
Article:
Although the COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer/BioNTech are the first mRNA vaccines to complete all clinical trial stages and be licensed for use, the technology has been around for a while.

Human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011. ‘If there was a real problem with the technology, we’d have seen it before now for sure,’ said Prof. Goldman.
 

NorCal Dave

Member
Article:
Although the COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer/BioNTech are the first mRNA vaccines to complete all clinical trial stages and be licensed for use, the technology has been around for a while.

Human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place since at least 2011. ‘If there was a real problem with the technology, we’d have seen it before now for sure,’ said Prof. Goldman.
Agreed. Like most people, I had never heard of the technology until last year, when my son, who does MedChem, explained it to me. It strikes me as such an elegant solution. Have your own cells make some benign proteins that trigger an immune response.

And I would say it's a good thing it had been around long enough that it was ready to go when COVID hit. From pandemic of a novel pathogen (I know it's very similar to SARS) to mass vaccines in, what, less then a year depending on age and where you live? In my 50's (ok, late 50's) in a semi-rural county I got my first round of Moderna almost exactly one year after going on lockdown.

Yes, I count myself lucky, that being in the US meant I got a chance at the vaccine earlier than many others. But that also frustrates me more that people I know refuse it. The local drugstore lady was almost begging me to get a vaccine or a 2nd dose or please find someone that needed it. The stockpile was sitting around going bad as people around the world needed it. Meanwhile the 65 year old diabetic-hypertensive-chain-smoker standing next to me is "trusting my own immune system!"

Sorry, starting to rant.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
one of my brothers is still 'afraid' of the rna vaccine, which is weird because he makes money on 'cutting edge' technology stuff. he did finally get the johnson and johnson though, he said it was a "normal vaccine".

unfortunately there are so many scary media articles about J&J. luckily he cared more about his little girls then the rare chance of blood clots... so so far everyone i know is vaccinated! i am a bit surprised actually as i know some Trump supporters, some even teetering on q-anon territory. They all got moderna or Pfizer though.

(they are all old enough to have elderly moms though, i kinda think their moms nagged them into it.. just a guess)
 

Amber Robot

Active Member
Of course the last person to tell me they weren't getting a vaccine because they "worried about the long term effects" was in their late 60's and lighting up, yet another, cigarette. As @Mendel said, some simply choose not to believe.
Exactly. Some of the folks complaining about the unknown long term effects of the vaccine don't seem to mind the *known* long term effects of things like obesity, high cholesterol, highly processed foods, etc. let alone the long term effects of covid itself.
 

Agent K

Senior Member
one of my brothers is still 'afraid' of the rna vaccine, which is weird because he makes money on 'cutting edge' technology stuff. he did finally get the johnson and johnson though, he said it was a "normal vaccine".
Don't tell him that the J&J vaccine transports DNA into the cell's nucleus, unlike the mRNA vaccine.
 
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Agent K

Senior Member
Exactly. Some of the folks complaining about the unknown long term effects of the vaccine don't seem to mind the *known* long term effects of things like obesity, high cholesterol, highly processed foods, etc. let alone the long term effects of covid itself.
I'm trying to think of a drug that has delayed long term side effects after just two doses.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
don't seem to mind the *known* long term effects of things like obesity, high cholesterol, highly processed foods
bacon and cheesy tater tots are more rewarding then a needle in the arm.

Granted if you die of covid there are no more cheesy tater tots, but i dont think they believe they will get severely sick from covid.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I'm trying to think of a drug that has delayed long term side effects after just two doses.
the cdc said side effects can show up weeks later. im assuming they meant blood clots, i was freaking out for a while with every muscle ache.

not sure that is what is meant by 'long term' though.

Article:
Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. For this reason, the FDA required each of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines to be studied for at least two months (eight weeks) after the final dose. Millions of people have received COVID-19 vaccines, and no long-term side effects have been detected.
 
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A.G. Explained: Covid-19 research with pre-2020 dates in Google search results Coronavirus COVID-19 4
Mick West Explained: "Disappearing needles" in Covid Vaccinations Coronavirus COVID-19 1
Adam Taylor A Plug for "You Can Know Things" Coronavirus COVID-19 0
B Covid hoaxer and anti vaxxer’s son, speaks out. Coronavirus COVID-19 1
A Needs Debunking: Proposed COVID Vaccine will become part of our DNA, make us programmable Coronavirus COVID-19 37
Shade sitter Claim: Covid vaccine gives you "Serpent" DNA/marks you 666 Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Arugula Claim: Only 6% of COVID deaths are "real" - the rest died due to comorbidities Coronavirus COVID-19 12
Mendel The E-PAI report on the Origins of COVID-19 Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Dingo Claim: U.S. Covid-19 Deaths are being Artificially Inflated Coronavirus COVID-19 38
omaehamoushindeiru Claim:Natural Covid-19 broke out of Wuhan lab (not man-made) Coronavirus COVID-19 72
Dan Wilson Claim:HIV Protein Sequences in Covid-19 (report withdrawn by authors) & other "man made" claims Coronavirus COVID-19 32
Z.W. Wolf President Trump's Facial Changes After His Coronavirus Diagnosis. [AI upscaled image] Coronavirus COVID-19 25
Z.W. Wolf President Trump And First Lady Test Positive For The Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 126
Critical Thinker Claim: Correlations Between Media Preference and Coronavirus Infection Rates Coronavirus COVID-19 11
derwoodii Retweet Networks Spreading Coronavirus Disinformation Coronavirus COVID-19 2
Mick West Local Perspectives on Coronavirus re-openings Coronavirus COVID-19 57
TEEJ Fake Coronavirus Detector in Iran Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Debunking Correlations Between 5G deployments and Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Mick West Boris Johnson in ICU with Coronavirus Symptoms Coronavirus COVID-19 8
Rory Claim: UK Coronavirus Bill (HC Bill 122) means "bad things" Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Mick West Claim: China Mobile loses 8.116 Million subscribers because of Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 2
Agent K Claim: Harvey Weinstein has coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 9
deirdre Coronavirus and Younger people Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Mick West Coronavirus Related Shortages in Shops Coronavirus COVID-19 111
Leifer Coronavirus Statistics: Cases, Mortality, vs. Flu Coronavirus COVID-19 281
Mick West 2020 US Election - Current Events Election 2020 372
Mick West TFTRH #32 - The Skeptic of the North: Former Conspiracist, Current Skeptic Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 1
Mick West TFTRH 9: Joe - Former Chemtrail Conspiracist, Current New World Order Conspiracist Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 51
Mick West 2017 Westminster attack Current Events 23
Mick West Current Events Forum Guidelines Current Events 0
Bfahome ElectroBOOM debunks "Current Mohan" (History Channel) General Discussion 8
Mick West Debunked: J. Marvin Herndon's "Geoengineering" Articles in Current Science (India) and IJERPH Contrails and Chemtrails 355
Mick West Edward Current: I was a Deluded 9/11 Truther Escaping The Rabbit Hole 3
Mick West Building 7 Explained by Edward Current 9/11 2
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