COVID-19 Coronavirus current events

deirdre

Senior Member.
the main reason why vaccinated people are 5 times less likely to get Covid isn't masks and precautions

you're missing the point. vaccination does help protect people from covid infection.

But my point was that if unvaccinated people would at least wear masks correctly and consistently and follow precaution protocols (distancing, avoiding high risk areas (crowds, stores that cater to unvaccinated people etc) -like the CDC suggests they do- they wouldnt be catching and spreading covid nearly as much as they are.

(otherwise known as wild guesses)
alas you are right, the unvaccinated (2/3rds) are actually masking up. i guess they aren't as irresponsible as i thought.
well, in my state they are ...as only 14% are masking up.


Article:
Despite the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) telling fully vaccinated Americans they no longer need masks in most situations, plenty of people are still wearing them. A poll from Vox and Data for Progress taken shortly after the CDC rescinded its mask guidelines for vaccinated individuals found that more than half of vaccinated people are still wearing masks. Another survey conducted after the CDC's mid-May policy reversal found that 4 in 10 vaccinated individuals continue to mask up.


Article:
While 29% of Americans are still unvaccinated, nearly two-thirds of this group (19%) are concerned enough about the spread of COVID-19 to regularly wear a mask,
......
Geographically, this group is disproportionately southern (45%) and less likely to be from the Northeast (14%).
 

Rory

Senior Member.
the unvaccinated (2/3rds) are actually masking up. i guess they aren't as irresponsible as i thought.
well, in my state they are ...as only 14% are masking up.

The stats are a bit weirdly presented in that article - it's not always immediately clear what the percentages are referring to - but the 14% figure (actually 13.7%) seems to be saying:

Of the estimated 62.6 million Americans who are unvaccinated but wear masks, 45% (28.2 million) live in the south and 13.7% (8.6 million) live in the northeast.

So I guess to know the true percentage of unvaccinated northeasterners who are/aren't masking up you'd need to know how many northeasterners aren't vaccinated.

Looking at the original paper, of those who are unvaccinated and not wearing masks, 11% live in the northeast:

1636124984485.png
Source: https://nuwildcat.sharepoint.com/sites/OGMC-MediaRelations/ORGADMINGLOBALMARKETINGANDCOMMUNICATIONSPRESSKITSB/Stephanie/Research Studies/COVID States Reports/COVID19 CONSORTIUM REPORT 67 MASKS 2021.pdf

Which seems to be the best percentage by a long way - but, of course, it really depends on population size.

This can be worked out easily enough, I'm sure (I'll do it in a bit if no one beats me to it).
 
Last edited:

Rory

Senior Member.
I think this is right: among unvaccinated people in the northeast 70.3% wear masks and 29.7% don't. Or by total population 6.2% (3.6m) are unvaccinated and non-mask wearing. So a bit rosier.

Here's the working out:

1636126710836.png

I haven't triple-checked though as I have to go eat breakfast.

(N=no; V=vaccine; W=wear; M=masks)
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Looking at the original report, I'm not a fan of how they've presented their data. A table like this -



- (as well as the unnecessary second decimal place) doesn't really offer much in the way of region-specific information (though you can notice whether each individual category is higher or lower than the "full sample" and deduce from that as to the trend in each particular region).

If we arrange the data horizontally rather than vertically though, like so:

1636130181068.png

I think it makes it easier to see what's going on: that the midwest is the most likely region to have unvaccinated non-mask wearers; that the south is most likely to have unvaccinated mask wearers; that all regions are between 68 and 79% vaccinated; and that the northeast, as far as masks and vaccines go, is doing the best of all (highest proportion vaccinated; highest proportion of vaccinated still wearing masks; and lowest proportion of unvaccinated non-mask wearers).

The original paper (already linked above) also has a really interesting chart showing the level of trust each group has in "authority":

1636130543284.png

The red dots, representing unvaccinated non-mask wearers, are by far the least trusting group in all categories (except for Trump and the police), while vaccinated mask-wearing are the most trusting in all categories bar three - the police, Fox News, and Trump.

One of the most interesting there is the trust levels in Fox News: unvaccinated mask wearers are the most trusting while unvaccinated non-mask wearers are the least trusting. I find that kind of intriguing.

I also think I'll add it to my notion that, at the heart of much conspiracy theory thinking, there lies simple plain old human trust issues. Not just trust (or lack of) in authorities, in media, in science, etc but in humanity and life in general and as a whole. I propose that such people probably trust their bosses and their spouses and their postmen and their friends - and maybe even themselves - less than other people too.
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
This can be worked out easily enough, I'm sure (I'll do it in a bit if no one beats me to it).
thank you! i knew the number was wonky but didnt want to try and figure it out myself. Youre my knight in shining armour coming to my mathematical rescue. :)
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
If we arrange the data horizontally rather than vertically though, like so:

1636130181068.png
If you meet an unmasked person anywhere in the US, you have about even odds that they're vaccinated; except in the Northeast, where they are more than twice as likely to be vaccinated.

I'm guessing there's something about the Northeast that made even people who don't like regulations more likely to get a vaccine; maybe it was their close experience with the disastrous first wave?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
that the south is most likely to have unvaccinated mask wearers;
and that the northeast, lowest percentage of unvaccinated non-mask wearers

even this is a bit confusing. i guess it means by shear numbers, since the south has 3x the population?

the poll was aug 27th-sept 27 that's pretty much exactly when my state, Connecticut, (also Maine) was in the surge the hardest... not that its gone down much, but it's down a bit. and i think Maine and (maybe Vermont?) got hit pretty hard with this surge.

We did have town mask mandates then.
1636134238622.png





and ex Louisiana (also Florida) was coming out of their surge. Not sure about their mask mandates if any.
1636132751939.png
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
I'm guessing there's something about the Northeast that made even people who don't like regulations more likely to get a vaccine; maybe it was their close experience with the disastrous first wave?
The 'culture' here is just different from other areas of the country too. We (reds and blues and government) don't typically go out of our way to not get along with our neighbors. Our local media and government doesn't typically use divisive language etc.

My state had sweet college kids going door to door in hold out areas. Churches involved etc. also mandates for college students, all gov employees, healthcare workers, daycare workers, teachers.

But in fairness we had higher vax rate then the rest of the country even before those mandates were put in place. The east side of our state is most rural and has the lowest vax rates. Luckily because it is so rural it's population numbers are low too, so they dont drag down our stats too much.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
even this is a bit confusing. i guess it means by sheer numbers, since the south has 3x the population?

A bit of both, I guess. Strictly speaking it's by percentage, so more like "if you meet a hundred people in the NE and a hundred people in the south chances are there'll be about 4 more unvax-nomask people in the south".

But looking at the table again:



you're right that the south here has a lot more people, which equates to about 12.2 million NVNM, while the midwest, with a higher percentage but lower population, equates to about 9 million NVNM.

Then there's your point about rural vs urban, which makes me wonder how urban south would stack up against rural northeast?

Stats, eh? Never as clear as we'd like them to be...
 

PenaH

Member
In Finnish news today:
https://www.helsinginuutiset.fi/paikalliset/4356946

Title: One in three COVID patients in Hus hospitals is double-vaccinated - Here’s an explanation

News:

Iltalehti reports that the number of hospitalized patients who have received two doses of COVID-19 vaccine is increasing in the Helsinki and Uusimaa Hospital District (Hus). There were a total of nine of them being treated at hospitals in the area last week. The proportion of patients vaccinated twice at that time was 35%.

According to Hus' assistant chief physician, docent Eeva Ruotsalainen, the pressure of infection now affects not only those who have not been vaccinated but also those who have been vaccinated, because the virus circulates clearly more than it should.

Ruotsalainen says that the proportion of those who were not vaccinated earlier in the autumn in the special care wards in the Hus area was in the range of 70-90 percent. Now the corresponding figure is about 60 percent.

Ruotsalainen says that last week, all of those who were twice vaccinated in hospital were either at risk and / or elderly, with vaccine protection lower than the basic working age. None of them had more than six months since the second dose of the vaccine.

- Right now, it is a really important and essential thing that the population over the age of 60 and those at risk receive its third vaccine, Ruotsalainen emphasizes to Iltalehti
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Stats, eh? Never as clear as we'd like them to be...
Could you kick your spreadsheet again and post the table with absolute numbers (population figures)? They're hardest to misinterpret.
According to Hus' assistant chief physician, docent Eeva Ruotsalainen, the pressure of infection now affects not only those who have not been vaccinated but also those who have been vaccinated, because the virus circulates clearly more than it should
I don't like this explanation, it sounds like the journalist got something mixed up here. If there is more virus circulating than before, this should affect vaccinated and unvaccinated people equally, and not change the percentage ratio.

There are three reasons why we might see more vaccinated people in the hospitals:
a) there are more vaccinated people,
b) the new virus strains are more effective,
c) vaccine protection diminishes over time, unless it is boosted

For a), consider that most car crash victims wore a seat belt; but that's not because wearing a seat belt makes you more likely to crash a car, it's because everybody wears one. The more people in Finland get vaccinated, the more will be in hospitals. (Hypothetical example: If you take 100000 of each vaccinated and unvaccinated, you might see 2 vaccinated and 10 unvaccinated in the hospital over some time; but if you have 500000 vaccinated and 100000 unvaccinated, it's 10 hospitalized for both.)

For b), it's known that the vaccine works well against Delta, but it worked better against the previous strains.

And for c), that's why the booster shots are getting rolled out. The vaccine protection doesn't suddenly "cut out" like an armor you take off, the human immune system simply gets a little less efficient at "remembering" the vaccination as time passes, and reminding it helps.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I don't like this explanation, it sounds like the journalist got something mixed up here. If there is more virus circulating than before, this should affect vaccinated and unvaccinated people equally, and not change the percentage ratio.
as the positivity rate increases
the number of break through cases in old people also increases. and old people are more likely to be hospitalized.
(i never liked the term "break through" cases myself, as some old people don't mount an immune response to the vaccination...so the virus isnt breaking through anything at all)

The article is about them getting boosters to up their protection from "break through" cases.

our vaxxed-in-hospital went up to 25% (majority old people) with high positivity rate too, even though the media said other areas of the country were only like 10% in hospital vaxxed. we, like Finland, also had higher vaccination rates than those other areas of the country.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Could you kick your spreadsheet again and post the table with absolute numbers (population figures)? They're hardest to misinterpret.

Sure thing. This shows number of people (in millions) for each category in each region:

1636219642646.png
 
Last edited:

FatPhil

Active Member
Our system's normally pretty open with data and stats, and there's a new story posted today which to be honest contains no great surprises, but sometimes it's fun to have a poke around in the entrails:

-- https://news.err.ee/1608397001/95-p...-funds-have-gone-to-treat-unvaccinated-people

Of course, that 95% figure has a bit more shock value than it ought to, because many of those unvaccinated cases had no chance to vaccinate. The graphs https://koroonakaart.ee/en imply that about a quarter of the cases were before vaccinations were widely available, and well over half were before there no longer long waiting lists for vaccination.

Are our entrails similar to others' or are we deviant? We're definitely sub-par when it comes to vaccinations, but that's because we have a significant sub-population who is, erm, conforming to stereotype.
 

PenaH

Member
Today's news have conspiracy folks think they are winning again and surprise, surprise only reading the title.

https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000008393460.html

Translation: Nearly half of the corona patients hospitalized are double-vaccinated in Hus.

News:

In the LAST week, almost half of those admitted to hospital due to corona in the Helsinki and Uusimaa hospital districts had received two doses of vaccine. Hus says in a press release that the epidemic situation has worsened in Uusimaa and the virus is high on the move.

The majority of coronavirus infections are currently due to the delta variant, which has increased permeability infections due to its higher infectivity.

- The increase in transmission infections is due to the current epidemic situation, where the virus is in high circulation. The effectiveness of the vaccines is good, but it is not one hundred percent, Hus' Vice CEO Markku Mäkijärvi says in a press release.

Hus said on Tuesday that it has raised its readiness level to enhanced readiness, the second tier of the three-stage readiness scale.

HUS says the number of people vaccinated twice in October remained roughly the same, at about ten patients, but the number of people vaccinated twice last week rose to 16. A total of 34 new corona patients were admitted to treatment last week.

The majority of twice vaccinated coronavirus patients requiring hospitalization have been treated in wards. There have been only a few cases of twice vaccinated in Hus intensive care units. Their need for intensive care has been affected by some underlying disease.

Almost all coronary patients treated in intensive care units have been unvaccinated.

- The majority of patients who have been and are being vaccinated twice in Hus are at risk for coronavirus disease or are elderly. It is known that the protection of the vaccine is weaker in these groups than in the healthy working age and young people, says Eeva Ruotsalainen, Hus's assistant chief physician

Hus is reminding that vaccinations do not completely prevent infections, but that most people suffer from asymptomatic or mild disease.

On Monday, Asko Järvinen, Hus's chief infection specialist, told IS that he was not surprised that those who had twice been vaccinated would also be hospitalized.

- It is assumed because the vaccine is not 100% effective against hospitalization. Because the disease occurs in the population, some become infected through the vaccine. It is a risk of disease transmission.

He speculated that in some of those vaccinated, the effectiveness of the vaccine may have decreased.

- We know that the third dose of the vaccine is necessary, especially for the elderly, in terms of long-term efficacy.


He also said the coronavirus is not necessarily the primary cause of hospitalization.

The THIRD dose of the vaccine is currently available to those 12 years of age and older who have a severe immune deficiency. People with an immunodeficiency can receive a third dose of the vaccine two months after the second dose. For the other groups, a third dose of the vaccine will be given six months after the second dose.


I found this news myself on conspiracy page with also this chart and text "So, now it is 50/50. Wonder when we declare pandemic of vaccinated"

FDwA7kwWEAU_VgQ.jpeg
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
HUS says the number of people vaccinated twice in October remained roughly the same, at about ten patients, but the number of people vaccinated twice last week rose to 16. A total of 34 new corona patients were admitted to treatment last week
16 vaccinated vs. 18 unvaccinated, with 70-80% of the population vaccinated?
Seems to me if everyone was vaccinated, 12 of these 18 would not be in the hospital at all.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Can you translate the table please Pena? And include the source of where you found it.
 
Last edited:

Rory

Senior Member.
Thanks. And when you say "today's news has conspiracy folks think they are winning again" and "I found this news myself on a conspiracy page with also this chart and the text: 'So, now it is 50/50. Wonder when we declare pandemic of vaccinated?'" where does that come from?
 

PenaH

Member
Thanks. And when you say "today's news has conspiracy folks think they are winning again" and "I found this news myself on a conspiracy page with also this chart and the text: 'So, now it is 50/50. Wonder when we declare pandemic of vaccinated?'" where does that come from?
This is the post.

Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/djjuvenalis/status/1458041406874849282


This one doesn't have IS link, but it clearly does refrence to it. I don't remember the post that declared "us tinfoil hats were right again", since it has already drowned in history with other stuff.
 

FatPhil

Active Member

Next time someone flings that bottom line at you with a comment along the lines of "50/50", then try to persuade them to calculate the "risk reduction ratio" (or "relative risk"). Maybe present them the hypothetical situation of a population that's 99% vaccinated, and still "equal" case counts for the two groups. See what they make of the maths. Of course, you need to be on top of the calculation yourself too if you're not already - google's your friend for finding the quoted terms. (And check your working against the numbers in Mendel's post above which get my thumbs up.)
 

Mauro

Active Member
Today's news have conspiracy folks think they are winning again and surprise, surprise only reading the title.

https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000008393460.html

Translation: Nearly half of the corona patients hospitalized are double-vaccinated in Hus.

News:

In the LAST week, almost half of those admitted to hospital due to corona in the Helsinki and Uusimaa hospital districts had received two doses of vaccine. Hus says in a press release that the epidemic situation has worsened in Uusimaa and the virus is high on the move.

The majority of coronavirus infections are currently due to the delta variant, which has increased permeability infections due to its higher infectivity.

- The increase in transmission infections is due to the current epidemic situation, where the virus is in high circulation. The effectiveness of the vaccines is good, but it is not one hundred percent, Hus' Vice CEO Markku Mäkijärvi says in a press release.

Hus said on Tuesday that it has raised its readiness level to enhanced readiness, the second tier of the three-stage readiness scale.

HUS says the number of people vaccinated twice in October remained roughly the same, at about ten patients, but the number of people vaccinated twice last week rose to 16. A total of 34 new corona patients were admitted to treatment last week.

The majority of twice vaccinated coronavirus patients requiring hospitalization have been treated in wards. There have been only a few cases of twice vaccinated in Hus intensive care units. Their need for intensive care has been affected by some underlying disease.

Almost all coronary patients treated in intensive care units have been unvaccinated.

- The majority of patients who have been and are being vaccinated twice in Hus are at risk for coronavirus disease or are elderly. It is known that the protection of the vaccine is weaker in these groups than in the healthy working age and young people, says Eeva Ruotsalainen, Hus's assistant chief physician

Hus is reminding that vaccinations do not completely prevent infections, but that most people suffer from asymptomatic or mild disease.

On Monday, Asko Järvinen, Hus's chief infection specialist, told IS that he was not surprised that those who had twice been vaccinated would also be hospitalized.

- It is assumed because the vaccine is not 100% effective against hospitalization. Because the disease occurs in the population, some become infected through the vaccine. It is a risk of disease transmission.

He speculated that in some of those vaccinated, the effectiveness of the vaccine may have decreased.

- We know that the third dose of the vaccine is necessary, especially for the elderly, in terms of long-term efficacy.


He also said the coronavirus is not necessarily the primary cause of hospitalization.

The THIRD dose of the vaccine is currently available to those 12 years of age and older who have a severe immune deficiency. People with an immunodeficiency can receive a third dose of the vaccine two months after the second dose. For the other groups, a third dose of the vaccine will be given six months after the second dose.


I found this news myself on conspiracy page with also this chart and text "So, now it is 50/50. Wonder when we declare pandemic of vaccinated"

FDwA7kwWEAU_VgQ.jpeg

First thing to say: are those data real?

Second thing to say: do they mean anything? For instance, if the base rate of hospitalization for unvaccinated people is (say) 10% and 20% of people is not vaccinated we can expect 2% of the population (all unvaccinated) to land in a hospital. The remaining 80% of people are, say, 90% protected against hospitalizaton: so we can expect 8% of the population (all vaccinated) to be hospitalized.

Result: in hospitals there will be four times more vaccinated people than unvaccinated ones, even if the individual risk to be hospitalized is nine times less for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated persons.

The anti-vaxxers 'reasoning' is exactly the same as thinking one should steer clear of hospitals, because (say) 80% of people dies in hospitals, so avoiding hospitals increases you chances of survival... the silliness of this 'reasoning' should be evident.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
For a), consider that most car crash victims wore a seat belt; but that's not because wearing a seat belt makes you more likely to crash a car, it's because everybody wears one. The more people in Finland get vaccinated, the more will be in hospitals. (Hypothetical example: If you take 100000 of each vaccinated and unvaccinated, you might see 2 vaccinated and 10 unvaccinated in the hospital over some time; but if you have 500000 vaccinated and 100000 unvaccinated, it's 10 hospitalized for both.)
The most recent numbers I:ve seen are closer to 1:4 than 1:5 for certain age groups, but I expect it'll keep varying as conditions change.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.

UK approves Covid-19 pill​

Article:
Nov 4 (Reuters) - Britain on Thursday became the first country in the world to approve a potentially game-changing COVID-19 antiviral pill jointly developed by U.S.-based Merck & Co Inc (MRK.N) and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics, in a boost to the fight against the pandemic.

Britain's Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) recommended the drug, molnupiravir, for use in people with mild to moderate COVID-19 and at least one risk factor for developing severe illness, such as obesity, older age diabetes, and heart disease.

It will be administered as soon as possible following a positive COVID-19 test and within five days of the onset of symptoms, the regulator said, citing clinical data.
 
Last edited:

PenaH

Member
First thing to say: are those data real?

Second thing to say: do they mean anything? For instance, if the base rate of hospitalization for unvaccinated people is (say) 10% and 20% of people is not vaccinated we can expect 2% of the population (all unvaccinated) to land in a hospital. The remaining 80% of people are, say, 90% protected against hospitalizaton: so we can expect 8% of the population (all vaccinated) to be hospitalized.

Result: in hospitals there will be four times more vaccinated people than unvaccinated ones, even if the individual risk to be hospitalized is nine times less for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated persons.

The anti-vaxxers 'reasoning' is exactly the same as thinking one should steer clear of hospitals, because (say) 80% of people dies in hospitals, so avoiding hospitals increases you chances of survival... the silliness of this 'reasoning' should be evident.
Yes. These are real data from Hus' own site
Ajankohta: Date
Rokotamattomat: Unvaccinated
Yhden rokotteen saaneet: Recived one dose of vaccine
Kaksi rokotusannosta saaneet: Double vaccinated

This is original source:

https://www.hus.fi/ajankohtaista/koronavirus-covid-19/koronavirus-lukuina
 

Mauro

Active Member
Yes. These are real data from Hus' own site

Very good! Then the second point in my post applies (you can get the data and do the math by yourself and let us know what you find).

Edit: Mendel had already posted the same consideration
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
old, sick people aren't holding up well with delta. nursing homes were one of the first vaccinated, so shots are likely about 9 months in from second shot.

Article:
The outbreak at the Geer Village Senior Community, a nursing home and rehabilitation center in Canaan, started around the beginning of October, when the nursing home was reporting merely three positive COVID-19 cases.

Now, eight residents have died, and 67 residents and 22 staff members caught COVID-19 sometime in the past month and a half. Nursing home officials said 48 residents and 21 staff members have recovered from the virus.

The senior community houses only 82 residents, the Associated Press reported.


Article:
Almost all those infected were fully vaccinated so we are obviously concerned we are experiencing some level of waning immunity.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
"Almost all those infected were fully vaccinated" means that some weren't.
Article:
Sadly, we have lost 8 residents with serious underlying health issues to Covid.

Article:
We are writing to update you on the Covid-19 outbreak at the Nursing Home only. We want to be clear there are no reported cases of Covid at Geer Lodge, the Assisted Living Facility.

It appears the infected are more feeble than other elderly people.

Unvaccinated and pre-delta, a 10% case fatality rate would have corresponded to an age of 80; I would not be surprised if a close analysis revealed that the vaccinations still provided better than 50% protection against death.

With a survived infection or a fresh booster shot, the odds will obviously be a lot better.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Has anybody been watching videos posted by a Dr John Campbell, such as this one here?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZZTPp-eYU

In it he talks to Kyle, an athlete who was left in a bit of a state after receiving his vaccine (allergies, heart problems, other things) and who felt that he didn't receive great support from the medical profession. He talks about his journey from being diagnosed as suffering from a psychological reaction to eventually being accepted as having a vaccine-caused problem, as well as being contacted by nurses asking for information and advice for other people who have also suffered vaccine injuries, and of being part of a group of vaccine victims who are attempting to make headway with politicians in DC (some of whom are now in wheelchairs because of their adverse vaccine reactions).

It's quite a disturbing listen, even though neither Dr Campbell nor Kyle are anti-vax nor espousing anything I can pick up on as "conspiratorial thinking". One particularly concerning segment details the plight of a 12-year-old girl who suffered an adverse reaction while part of a trial. He says she was "dropped and didn't count towards the data", is now on a feeding tube, and has been in a wheelchair since February/March - and has received no help from the pharmaceutical company involved.

I've listened to several of Dr Campbell's videos and, though I've stumbled across a few errors, on the whole they seem a decent and an interesting representation of a viewpoint that is simultaneously: critical of articles by scientists and news channels such as the BBC; suspicious of pharmaceutical companies and their products; somewhat supportive of proposed but widely-debunked "alternative Covid cures" such as Ivermectin; and yet isn't promoting conspiracy theories, despite obviously finding favour with that crowd (he has over 1.3 million subscribers at the time of writing).

(Note: I edited the above paragraph after reading the comment below. The original paragraph is recorded there.)
 
Last edited:

econ41

Senior Member
Has anybody been watching videos posted by a Dr John Campbell, such as this one here?
.....
I've listened to a few of Dr Campbell's videos and, though I've stumbled across a few errors, on the whole they seem decent and an interesting representation of an alternative viewpoint.
I haven't been watching. And I've only watched the introductory first few minutes of this one. (Hour long dialogue videos without any executive summary are not my thing.)

But what I see is apparently one sufferer of side effects of vaccination. Including two distinct diagnoses - pericarditis and "POST" plus a suggestion by Dr John as to a possible cause of one symptom.

So I'm puzzled as to why this is an "alternative viewpoint". Unless something else comes up in the video what we are hearing is mainstream the accepted "viewpoint". Vaccination has high probability of beneficial results AND the low probability of side effects. Not all side effects will appear during initial testing. They may emerge in widespread use in practice. That is my understanding of the mainstream body of opinion. Not "alternative". "Alternative" carries the implication of a different, usually an opposing, position. Which does not appear to be the case in the introduction of the video.

Does something really "alternative" come up in the body of the video? Do I really need to watch right through?
 
Last edited:

Rory

Senior Member.
With that word I was really referring to the scope of the channel as a whole. But I did wonder if it was the right word. I figured it would do but I think I can take from your response that I'd be better off without it - or that I should edit it to more fully explain what I meant (done that now).

(Though one interesting "alternative" point is the accusation of data manipulation within trials, with people who suffered adverse reactions being recorded as "withdrawals" and an apparent difficulty in reporting such reactions leading to "I'm in a wheelchair and feeding through a tube" being recorded as "stomachache".)
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
Has anybody been watching videos posted by a Dr John Campbell,
i watched him at the beginning of the pandemic. i dont recall any "alternative" views from him though. When did he become a doctor, i thought he was a nurse (which isn't to say i trust nurses less than doctors! there are alot of quack doctors out there).

you seem to be sliding in alot of possible bunk, without transcribing anything or providing source links. what's with all these wheelchair people? i know sometimes guillain barre can result in (temporary or even more rarely long term) possible wheel chair issues. but the risk is higher from covid. what numbers are you suggesting here?

the 12 year old.. i cant find her age group, unless this is actually her and she wasnt yet 12 at the time.

but seems "withdrawal" doesnt mean they don't note the reactions. even marked as "severe". AE means "adverse event"
THis is Pfizers "briefing document" to the FDA. ages 5-<12
Screenshot 2021-11-15 221019.png
Article:
Adverse Events Leading to Withdrawal
One participant withdrew due to an AE of severe pyrexia with onset of 2 days after Dose 1
considered by the investigator as related to study intervention that resolved at 1 day after
onset. Participant also had severe neutropenia ('worsening from baseline') with onset of 3
days after Dose 1 considered by the investigator as related to study intervention and reported
as resolving at the time of the data cutoff date. Participant had a medical history of benign
transient neutropenia of unknown etiology, gingivitis, and otitis media. Prior to study
enrollment, she had a full hematology work-up (including for possible leukemia) with
baseline absolute neutrophil count (ANC) of 480; the hematologist indicated no concerns
with study participation. After Dose 1 Day 2 she reported a temperature of 40.1 °C. Her
temperature returned to normal the next day. Two days after receiving Dose 1, the participant
had a planned routine hematology appointment. The participant had an ANC of 20 and
platelets were normal. No other symptoms or infections were reported at that time.
Subsequently on Day 19 after Dose 1, the investigator was contacted by the participant's
caregiver who reported the participant had bleeding gums for 1 week prior. On Day 23, the
participant attended Visit 2 to be seen by the investigator, was reported as doing well, and
had a follow-up blood draw that showed the ANC had improved to 70. Dose 2 was not
administered, and the participant was withdrawn from study intervention and remains in
study follow-up. No other AEs were reported
 
Last edited:

Rory

Senior Member.
you seem to be sliding in alot of possible bunk, without transcribing anything or providing source links.

Good point: I should be careful of that. Probably if I want to ask if anyone's been watching his videos to find out what they think there are better ways to do that, and more appropriate places to post too.

Thanks for looking into it deeper. I'm sure it's very possible that this chap Kyle didn't have all the facts either.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
well the FDA could be lying, but since i found that document online.. i kinda doubt they would.

the CDC approval for 12-15 year olds says:
SAE=severe adverse event

Article:
and none of these SAEs were assessed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as related to study intervention. Reactogenicity grade ≥3 was associated with vaccination (RR 5.49; 95% CI: 3.51, 8.58; evidence type 1). About 11% of vaccine recipients and 2% of placebo recipients reported any grade ≥3 local or systemic reactions following either dose 1 or dose 2.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I'm sure it's very possible that this chap Kyle didn't have all the facts either.
yea. he also says that companies should have to put money aside to help injured families financially. But every drug company does that. Plus in my state, every other commercial on cheaper tv stations is lawyers telling you to sign up for class action lawsuits if you've been injured by drug x.

kinda silly to suggest drug manufacturers don't budget such expenses into their budgets.
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
D Claim: Videos of people exhaling vape smoke through a mask, demonstrate masks as useless against a virus.. Coronavirus COVID-19 42
Mendel Debunked: The WHO did not take the Taiwan CDC seriously Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Rory Claim: adverse reactions in Covid vaccine trials are not being recorded Coronavirus COVID-19 69
Leifer List of reasons people do not want to get the Covid vaccine..... Coronavirus COVID-19 67
P Claim: 75 Deaths of athletes in Five Months are Because of COVID-19 vaccines Coronavirus COVID-19 11
trevor COVID vaccine and VAERS discussion Coronavirus COVID-19 43
Rory Claim: Covid vaccines contains self-aware aluminum parasites Coronavirus COVID-19 44
T Claim: Offguardian article claiming that Covid PCR testing is flawed and not reliable Coronavirus COVID-19 8
P Friend has fallen into COVID-conspiracies Coronavirus COVID-19 95
Rory Debunked: UK undertaker's claim that Covid vaccine is responsible for spike in deaths Coronavirus COVID-19 7
Mick West Debunked: Pfizer Developing a Twice-Per-Day COVID Pill, Taken Alongside Vaccines Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Are 99% of COVID-19 Deaths Among the Unvaccinated? Coronavirus COVID-19 43
Peter Finnish politician on possible Covid Vaccine Genocide Coronavirus COVID-19 12
P Need Debunking: "Experimental Vaccine Death Rate for Israel's Elderly 40 Times Higher Than COVID-19 Deaths" Coronavirus COVID-19 7
G Claim: China refused to hand "key data" to WHO delegation during the recent investigation in Wuhan Coronavirus COVID-19 29
Oystein Report: "23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine" (NY Post) Coronavirus COVID-19 9
JMartJr Covid Stimulus Bill mandates UFO Disclosure UFOs and Aliens 5
A.G. Explained: Covid-19 research with pre-2020 dates in Google search results Coronavirus COVID-19 4
Mick West Explained: "Disappearing needles" in Covid Vaccinations Coronavirus COVID-19 1
Adam Taylor A Plug for "You Can Know Things" Coronavirus COVID-19 0
B Covid hoaxer and anti vaxxer’s son, speaks out. Coronavirus COVID-19 1
A Needs Debunking: Proposed COVID Vaccine will become part of our DNA, make us programmable Coronavirus COVID-19 37
Shade sitter Claim: Covid vaccine gives you "Serpent" DNA/marks you 666 Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Arugula Claim: Only 6% of COVID deaths are "real" - the rest died due to comorbidities Coronavirus COVID-19 12
Mendel The E-PAI report on the Origins of COVID-19 Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Dingo Claim: U.S. Covid-19 Deaths are being Artificially Inflated Coronavirus COVID-19 38
omaehamoushindeiru Claim:Natural Covid-19 broke out of Wuhan lab (not man-made) Coronavirus COVID-19 72
Dan Wilson Claim:HIV Protein Sequences in Covid-19 (report withdrawn by authors) & other "man made" claims Coronavirus COVID-19 32
Z.W. Wolf President Trump's Facial Changes After His Coronavirus Diagnosis. [AI upscaled image] Coronavirus COVID-19 25
Z.W. Wolf President Trump And First Lady Test Positive For The Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 126
Critical Thinker Claim: Correlations Between Media Preference and Coronavirus Infection Rates Coronavirus COVID-19 11
derwoodii Retweet Networks Spreading Coronavirus Disinformation Coronavirus COVID-19 2
Mick West Local Perspectives on Coronavirus re-openings Coronavirus COVID-19 57
TEEJ Fake Coronavirus Detector in Iran Coronavirus COVID-19 0
Mick West Debunking Correlations Between 5G deployments and Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Mick West Boris Johnson in ICU with Coronavirus Symptoms Coronavirus COVID-19 8
Rory Claim: UK Coronavirus Bill (HC Bill 122) means "bad things" Coronavirus COVID-19 9
Mick West Claim: China Mobile loses 8.116 Million subscribers because of Coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 2
Agent K Claim: Harvey Weinstein has coronavirus Coronavirus COVID-19 9
deirdre Coronavirus and Younger people Coronavirus COVID-19 14
Mick West Coronavirus Related Shortages in Shops Coronavirus COVID-19 111
Leifer Coronavirus Statistics: Cases, Mortality, vs. Flu Coronavirus COVID-19 281
Mick West 2020 US Election - Current Events Election 2020 372
Mick West TFTRH #32 - The Skeptic of the North: Former Conspiracist, Current Skeptic Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 1
Mick West TFTRH 9: Joe - Former Chemtrail Conspiracist, Current New World Order Conspiracist Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 51
Mick West 2017 Westminster attack Current Events 23
Mick West Current Events Forum Guidelines Current Events 0
Bfahome ElectroBOOM debunks "Current Mohan" (History Channel) General Discussion 8
Mick West Debunked: J. Marvin Herndon's "Geoengineering" Articles in Current Science (India) and IJERPH Contrails and Chemtrails 355
Mick West Edward Current: I was a Deluded 9/11 Truther Escaping The Rabbit Hole 3
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top