Conspiracy theorist Kevin Purfield arrested for harassing Aurora victims' families

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
He was detained on a medical hold while shopping for shoes? He never does say why they detained him. I wonder why?

Yeah, wonder why, eh...? Harhar. What's the point of this?

The point was to demonstrate that in his video he gives a very biased version of events. He neglects to mention that he was trespassing, that he was asked to leave, that by all accounts he was acting erratically, that he has a history of such behaviour. He doesn't mention anything that would paint him in a bad light. I wonder why he would do that?

Next, people watching this bias and one sided video, people like you, might use it as evidence to make a connection between the mentally ill getting detained and the violation of their rights... and as of on cue... you write the following...

harhar, what a farce, authority figures violating the rights of the mentally ill? As if they don't deserve it...!

So Grieves, which one of his rights were violated?
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Next, people watching this bias and one sided video, people like you, might use it as evidence to make a connection between the mentally ill getting detained and the violation of their rights... and as of on cue... you write the following...
I didn't watch any of the videos. Seemed a complete waste of time to sit around watching this guy on a rant. The only time I sit around watching time-wasting youtube vids is when they're particularly funny/interesting. A man ranting into his camera isn't interesting, and it sure as shit shouldn't be funny in most cases.

harhar, what a farce, authority figures violating the rights of the mentally ill? As if they don't deserve it...!
So Grieves, which one of his rights were violated?
Dunno. Maybe none. Don't know the details of his arrest. You left out the comment I was speaking towards though. Here it is.
Next we should cue the apologists so they can claim the psych eval violated his basic human rights.:rolleyes:
This is a pretty direct reference to another conversation in this forum regarding a man who was arrested without charge and held for seven days I believe it was because he was veteran who made facebook posts someone wrongly deemed indicative of impending violence. The psych eval which allowed for him to be held that way was deemed groundless in a court of law. THAT man had his rights violated. This comment suggests pointing that out, or speaking in defense of the rights of the mentally ill who have in fact committed a crime, is to be an 'apologist'.
You don't understand where I'm coming from here. My only defense of this particular guy is to say that the nature of this thread seems somewhat bullying in the way it's singled him out. My main complaint with this thread is the way it tries to wield the stigma surrounding mental illness for the sake of equating, if only loosely, conspiracy theorists to the violently mad. It offends me, as so far as I'm concerned one of the most divisive and disruptive elements of our modern society is how we stigmatize the mentally ill. I've done some volunteer work with a local organization who act as an advocate and support-system for those who find themselves caught up in the mental health system. One of their primary mandates is to provide an entirely stigma free environment, and they achieve this quite well. They don't even use terms like 'mentally ill', a person who comes there for peer-support or training is considered a 'consumer-survivor'. A 'consumer' in the context of someone within the mental health system, and a 'survivor' in the context of their recovery from/coping with the reason for being within it. The term 'consumer-survivor' may seem rather cold and bland and nondescript, but that's exactly the point. No emotions or preconceptions are attached to the term. To hear someone described/describing themselves as such might bring on a quirk of confusion, but it's not going to summon an instant image of that person wrapped up in a straight jacket foaming at the mouth either.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.

Ya... that's what I thought.

This is a pretty direct reference to another conversation in this forum regarding a man who was arrested without charge and held for seven days I believe it was because he was veteran who made facebook posts someone wrongly deemed indicative of impending violence. The psych eval which allowed for him to be held that way was deemed groundless in a court of law.

Brandon Raub was not arrested. He was detained on an emergency custody order to undergo a psych eval because a judge found enough probable cause to do so. And no... he was never mirandized because he was not arrested.

THAT man had his rights violated.

Which one of Brandon Raub's rights was violated?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Ya... that's what I thought.



Brandon Raub was not arrested. He was detained on an emergency custody in order to undergo a psych eval because a judge found enough probable cause to do so. And no... he was never mirandized because he was not arrested.



Which one of Brandon Raub's rights were violated?

Seems like he had no rights to violate if what you say is right.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Ya... that's what I thought.
rofl, as if you've proven something. I never claimed this guys rights were violated. I simply found the comment made in regards to the rights of the mentally ill crass, cold and thick-headed. You're the one who's decided I was trying to claim this guy's rights were violated, and seem pretty stuck in that notion.

Which one of Brandon Raub's rights was violated?
For how many days can a man be held without charge on illegitimate grounds before you consider his rights to have been abused...?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
For how many days can a man be held without charge on illegitimate grounds before you consider his rights to have been abused...?

Since that's a rhetorical question, isn't it better to ask how society should go about determining if the grounds are legitimate or not. And if there is evidence that the current system is doing it wrong.

The problem with all these cases is that you and I don't know the details - usually we don't know them because the people involved (psychiatrists and police) are legally bound not to reveal the private information about the individuals. And yet the individuals themselves of course can talk as much as they like. This MIGHT lead to a rather one-sided picture in some cases.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
For how many days can a man be held without charge on illegitimate grounds before you consider his rights to have been abused...?

In Virginia an individual can be held for up to 30 days to undergo psychiatric evaluation if a judge finds enough probable cause to sign an emergency custody order.

So again I ask, which one of Brandon Raub's rights was violated?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've done some volunteer work with a local organization who act as an advocate and support-system for those who find themselves caught up in the mental health system. One of their primary mandates is to provide an entirely stigma free environment, and they achieve this quite well. They don't even use terms like 'mentally ill', a person who comes there for peer-support or training is considered a 'consumer-survivor'. A 'consumer' in the context of someone within the mental health system, and a 'survivor' in the context of their recovery from/coping with the reason for being within it. The term 'consumer-survivor' may seem rather cold and bland and nondescript, but that's exactly the point. No emotions or preconceptions are attached to the term. To hear someone described/describing themselves as such might bring on a quirk of confusion, but it's not going to summon an instant image of that person wrapped up in a straight jacket foaming at the mouth either.

That's very interesting, but probably not too useful outside of that particular context.

I know I've referred to "crazy people" occasionally - but there I'm generally talking about people who are unequivocally operating under some kind of paranoid delusion - people like Jared Lee Loughner, for example. I know you react strongly against such terms. But I personally am generally very respectful in dealing with people with mental health related issues. I imagine that most of the skeptical community are. Most everyone knows someone with some kind of mental health related issue, even if it's "just" depression.

So to me you seem to be making rather a huge assumption about how people here feel about mental illness, and I think it's getting in the way of communication.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
Can people be force medicated whilst being evaluated for up to 30 days?

 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
But I personally am generally very respectful in dealing with people with mental health related issues. I imagine that most of the skeptical community are.

I'd say the public in general falls in that category. There are the exceptions, those special adults that never quite got rid of their high school mentality or cruelty, who will mock anyone that's different. The majority of people do not fall in that category but are rather accommodating and considerate towards the mentally ill. I see it all the time, especially from police officers.

On a regular bases, there will be some guy who goes off his meds, gets uncontrollable maybe even dangerous, and the police are called in for assistance. If the officers decide to cuff the individual it's to gain control and prevent them from harming themselves or bystanders. Their detention is not a punishment, but rather an attempt to get them help, they're taken to the hospital, seen by doctors, their social worker is contacted, family will be notified. For the unfortunates that don't have family or a social worker and refuse any kind of help, Well... they eventually get released, alone and unmedicated, to fend for themselves on the streets.

Attempting to characterize law enforcement as a bunch of goons that mob and beat and abuse the rights of the mentally ill is just ignorant and offensive bullshit.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Can people be force medicated whilst being evaluated for up to 30 days?

I'm going to level with you Oxy. It' my opinion that you don't always research the topics being discussed. I feel you sometimes enter a thread, blurt out some comment, wait for people to correct you, only to have you blurt out some other ill informed comment. I get the impression that you sometimes don't even do the very minimum of research. If that's the case, then why should I bother engaging you in a conversation?

How about if you tell me whether or not people can be force medicated while detained on a custody order in Virginia. Here's a link to Google. :)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
You don't understand where I'm coming from here. My only defense of this particular guy is to say that the nature of this thread seems somewhat bullying in the way it's singled him out. My main complaint with this thread is the way it tries to wield the stigma surrounding mental illness for the sake of equating, if only loosely, conspiracy theorists to the violently mad. It offends me, as so far as I'm concerned one of the most divisive and disruptive elements of our modern society is how we stigmatize the mentally ill. I've done some volunteer work with a local organization who act as an advocate and support-system for those who find themselves caught up in the mental health system. One of their primary mandates is to provide an entirely stigma free environment, and they achieve this quite well. They don't even use terms like 'mentally ill', a person who comes there for peer-support or training is considered a 'consumer-survivor'. A 'consumer' in the context of someone within the mental health system, and a 'survivor' in the context of their recovery from/coping with the reason for being within it. The term 'consumer-survivor' may seem rather cold and bland and nondescript, but that's exactly the point. No emotions or preconceptions are attached to the term. To hear someone described/describing themselves as such might bring on a quirk of confusion, but it's not going to summon an instant image of that person wrapped up in a straight jacket foaming at the mouth either.

Grieves,first let me tell you I have a mentally ill person in my immediate family. I am aware of the dearth of support that exists for the mentally ill. Your description sounds as if you are helping people who are looking for that help, who are volunteering for support and treatment. That is a totally different thing. The people in these videos, and in the screen caps threatening chemtrailing planes, for example, are not looking for help. They are exhibiting their pathology for all to see, and some here are pointing to these videos and posts are from people who MAY BECOME a danger to society. Wondering what can be done to prevent that happeneing is not bullying or ridiculing the mentally ill, it is watching out for their possible victims, some of whom may be posting here.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
So to me you seem to be making rather a huge assumption about how people here feel about mental illness, and I think it's getting in the way of communication.
I'm only pointing out the stigma as I see it being demonstrated, and expressing my distaste with the willingness to use that stigma to try and establish a convoluted relationship between conspiracy theorists and violent/dangerous acts, on the basis that conspiracy theories appeal to the mentally ill, who are (and here's the stigma at play) considerably more likely to do something violent. This is a falsehood, and a harmful one.

Grieves,first let me tell you I have a mentally ill person in my immediate family.
As do I. As does likely most every person commenting in this thread. Stigma isn't a conscious choice in most every case. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else here 'hates' mentally ill people, or even inherently distrusts them. All I'm saying is the stigma surrounding mental illness frequently shows itself in many of the comments made in this thread, even in some of the comments made by you JR, like when you suggested violent offenders without mental illnesses were just undiagnosed, implying a belief violent acts are inherently demonstrative of mental illness. There's such a thing as 'self stigma', and it's quite entirely common.

The people in these videos, and in the screen caps threatening chemtrailing planes, for example, are not looking for help.
They also aren't necessarily mentally ill.

Wondering what can be done to prevent that happeneing is not bullying or ridiculing the mentally ill, it is watching out for their possible victims, some of whom may be posting here.
Maybe not... but ridiculing a man's rants and suggesting his behavior should reflect on Conspiracy Theorists in general doesn't constitute conscientious consideration of how to better manage cases of harassment/potential violent crime where mental illness is a factor in my mind. Does it in yours?

Attempting to characterize law enforcement as a bunch of goons that mob and beat and abuse the rights of the mentally ill is just ignorant and offensive bullshit.
Agreed. Attempting to characterize conspiracy theorists as a bunch of 'crazy people', and those 'crazy people' as being inherently prone to violence is also just ignorant and offensive bullshit. Which of those themes is more dominant in this thread, when looking at it with as unbiased an eye as you can manage?
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Agreed. Attempting to characterize conspiracy theorists as a bunch of 'crazy people', and those 'crazy people' as being inherently prone to violence is also just ignorant and offensive bullshit. Which of those themes is more dominant in this thread, when looking at it with as unbiased an eye as you can manage?

I will say that claiming conspiracy theorists are inherently prone to violence is demonstrably false.

I would support the suggestion that conspiracy theorists tend to be somewhat irrational.

http://images.derstandard.at/2012/02/22/Dead and Alive.pdf
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Since at the current time I am posting on a FB forum where someone actually thinks the entire 9/11 event was CGI, I think "misguided" is putting it too mildly.
 

Priscilla Patrick

New Member
I find it interesting that we can't control guns, because the real problem is mental illness, but if we try to force help on those that are mentally ill, then it is some sort of a conspiracy/ mind control etc.


This is a wonderful point. Mental illness is something that has been growing along with our understanding of it, ironically enough. So I find it interesting that as science and the mind progress together, they get pushed moreso into the conspirators' idea of illness. They think everyone around them is sick, maybe because they have not examined their ID as separate from the Ego... Dunning-Kruger Effect is an ironic bias to have in our society.

http://www.pearltrees.com/u/4003693-anosognosic-dilemma-something
 
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