Claim: "They're eating the dogs" - Trump / Harris Presidential Debate '24

[dlk1728]

You have just pooh-poohed people who are rightly concerned about school violence, a cruel and callous indifference to life on your part. There are more things than an actual shooting to be concerned about. Verbal or telephone threats, or people bringing a gun but being thwarted by police (it's happened in my town) ALL get people "extremely upset", children traumatized, parents furious, and teachers quitting. Those threats are not rare items at all:

The district home of Oxford High School in Michigan – where a teenager in 2021 killed four students and wounded six others and a teacher – got 35,000 threats in a month after the massacre. It typically gets 500 in a year, according to an academic study that claims it's one of the first to quantify more than 1,000 threats of school violence over four academic years.
.....
No agency or group tracks all threats of US school violence, from possible gun attacks to bombings to any other conceivable danger.

"Schools likely quietly handle thousands of threats of shootings that do not make the news," the study's authors wrote this year in the American Psychological Association's Journal of Threat Assessment and Management.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/05/us/school-violence-threats-parents-dilemma-dg/index.html
All of these of those threats requires police time (that we pay for) to investigate. Many of them, such as bomb threats, require a school to be evacuated with the loss of class time. ALL of them traumatize the school staff, even when the students are not aware of them. It's heartless to hand-wave away that trauma, and all, apparently, for the sake of keeping your gun.

This quote is misleading. First, OK2Say takes all kinds of reports from bullying, to child abuse, threats, suicide etc. So that 35,000 number includes many items that are not police matters and are sent to other agencies such as Children's Protective Services or the schools and many are not investigated as they don't rise to the level requiring investigation (I worked as a supervisor for CPS in MI for their Centralized Intake and screened many of these out). Further the 500 threats listed are for all schools in MI, not just Oxford.

 

[deirdre]

you're off by a factor of 10

Springfield is one town.
Newtown is one town.

I thought i'd get flack for the 6000 years comment.

 

[Mendel]

Springfield is one town.
Newtown is one town.

I thought i'd get flack for the 6000 years comment.

I do not comprehend this reply at all.

The "once in 6000 years" means the same statistically as "1 school in 6000 each year". You did get called out on it because that ratio is too low.

 

[Ann K]

you might be exaggerating a bit. school shootings aren't widespread but it doesn't stop people from being extremely upset when 1 in 6000 years happens in their town.

Apart from your math being incorrect, you are making an erroneous assumption that people "get upset" only when it happens in their town. EVERY school shooting is a nationally-publicized event, and people all over the country are, rightly, upset whether it happens in Columbine, Sandy Hook, Uvalde, or any other school.

 

[John J.]

I think @deidre's intended point (correct me if I'm wrong) is that a relatively rare unpleasant event can have a big impact, and make people think that that type of event is more common than it is.

The allegations about immigrants in Springfield might be different in that there isn't any reliable evidence of any of them eating cats or dogs- perceptions that they do, or have done, or might do, are based on dubious internet posts (without checkable evidence) which have been amplified by influential politicians. This makes some people associate immigrants with pet-eating.

Going off-topic, I typed something like "how many high schools in usa" and got this (via Microsoft Bing):

Got different responses on repeating the search later.

 

[deirdre]

I do not comprehend this reply at all.

The "once in 6000 years" means the same statistically as "1 school in 6000 each year". You did get called out on it because that ratio is too low.

i dont comprehend your reply to my reply either. so...

there were no statistics or math needed for my initial comment. I was talking about John's assumption that the public assumes that Haitians eating cats is widespread amongst Haitians.

 

[deirdre]

The allegations about immigrants in Springfield might be different in that there isn't any reliable evidence of any of them eating cats or dogs- perceptions that they do, or have done, or might do, are based on dubious internet posts (without checkable evidence) which have been amplified by influential politicians.

and that's all that needs to be said.

 

[TheNZThrower]

There's a clip of some local YouTuber/Tiktoker spreading the stories at a Springfield city council meeting, though he didn't witness anything directly: "They're in the park grabbing up ducks by their neck and cutting their head off and walking off with 'em and eating them." He also accuses city officials of personally profiting from bringing in immigrants. There's another woman who talks at the meeting denying being racist, but criticizing Haitian culture. The clips were circulating pretty heavily in right-wing social media.

Sorry to beat a dead horse. But I have found the original video of said YouTuber making the complaint:

Here is a transcript of the relevant portion of what he said [starting from T-1:10:08]:

I do YouTube. I think it's kinda odd that a guy like me has to come out from doing what I do on a daily basis to have fun, because I see what's going on in these streets, and I see you guys sitting up there in some comfy chairs and suits. I'm getting out here every day, and I'm broadcasting this…

I really challenge you guys to get out here and do something. These Haitians are running into trash cans [and] buildings. They're flipping cars in the middle of the street… I don't know how y'all can be comfortable with this [or] whose getting paid for/from this. I feel like somebody is getting paid for/from this in the background.

You got a bunch of people in a bus getting dropped off at a gas station come down here. I know a single mom that FaceTimed me tonight, FaceTimed me this morning at the welfare office that really needed something. And it's nothing but immigrants over there. I don't even want to seem like I'm coming down on immigrants because it's the people down here. Wherever they're at, that's what they're used to bro.

They're in the park, grabbing up ducks, by their neck, and cutting their head off and walking off with them. And eating them. Y'all get the highway state patrol down here every week, [and then] a task force for the highway state patrol, and they look for guns [and] dope [etc…] That same people that you got riding up and down limestone doing U-turns, pulling people over for blinkers, going left to centre in a couple miles over...

Bro, I'm getting thousands of views on these, and it's going to get bigger [and] worse… All y'all need to get out there and do something, y'all making hundreds of thousands of dollars... We need to do something about it bro. There's kids out here getting hurt. The only reason I even went on here and said something about it is because somebody told me they walked here from the school, and a Haitian almost ran into them. And who is getting paid… to bring them over here? I know it's deeper than them, that's where they come from and that's what they do. That's their country. I don't know what they got going on over there, but they can't do that over here. And if y'all just getting paid from it, I think that's super weird bro. Y'all gotta step up, it's lame bro.

Does it seem like he's saying he has witnessed the duck beheading firsthand?, since he said he's seeing "what's going on in these streets", and that he's "getting out here every day, and broadcasting this". Or is this me misinterpreting his statement?

Say he really did mean he actually witnessed said duck beheading firsthand. Are there any other possibilities than "Haitians are illegally nabbing ducks from the park"? I recall eyewitness testimony is quite unreliable, and is fallible.

 

[deirdre]

Does it seem like he's saying he has witnessed the duck beheading firsthand?, since he said he's seeing "what's going on in these streets", and that he's "getting out here every day, and broadcasting this".

its a bit hard to tell. as an american i didnt really take his testimony as "i saw things first hand". i took it more like he's on the streets ie he talks to people etc. He's got his finger on the pulse of the community. But that's how i interpret it from a New York area perspective.

Like i could say "i see what's happening on the streets", but that doesn't necessarily mean i literally saw each incident happen. But i believe the people who are telling me they saw each incident happen. Or i believe that Tony's cousin saw it happen when Tony tells me about it.

Like when he talks about the woman who needs services but the services department is over-full of immigrants, its possible he literally went to the services department and saw the over flow of immigrants personally OR just the woman told him she went for help and was stuck behind a crowd of immigrants. You'd have to find his youtube channel i guess and see if he is filming things first hand or just reporting what others tell him. I would think if hes an influencer he has a camera on him and maybe would have said "i filmed them nabbing ducks". ??

 

[deirdre]

@TheNZThrower
oh that was easy to find, here you go

3:09
nonstop and I'm like and somebody I know called me like man I'm walking home from school and the ha almost hit me and the
kid so I was like man this [ __ ] is like getting out of hand so I went down I
went down there and told him like y'all have to do something about this and then the same day I went down there somebody tagged me in a Facebook status and was

like Anthony I me and my kid was just in the park and then they just went up and grabbed a goose and cut his head off and
then ran off and was eating it I said what the [ __ ] I said now why would they do that and then I went down there and I
told the people downtown like what's up like what y'all going to do about this yeah

so somebody told you that you..you didn't actually see..

3:39 i never seen that shit, no
yeah so you know by just going there
3:52
hold on hold on hold on be real and don't lie do Haitians eat ducks ducks
3:58
Goose geese Canadian geese I don't think we even have that in Haiti Canadian
4:03
geese I don't think we have that in Haiti probably have you ever heard of anybody eating a goose that's what I'm telling you right now so it's probably
4:10
one of the um or or food or in other countries but in Haiti we have dock
4:16
actually I know that you know me myself I know that my family used to raise dock but um you know that's one of the thing
4:23
that's it's crazy is because the misinformation is actually not uh um
4:29
related to our culture is know it's not correlating to anything at all so uh um
4:34
so basically let's go back you say that you don't never heard I mean you heard but you never seen somebody me myself I
4:40
never seen someone or somebody telling me that they EA any geese or anything at all so did you actually know by having

Source: https://youtu.be/WiBB_XAKDec?t=177

 

[jarlrmai]

its a bit hard to tell. as an american i didnt really take his testimony as "i saw things first hand". i took it more like he's on the streets ie he talks to people etc. He's got his finger on the pulse of the community. But that's how i interpret it from a New York area perspective.

Like i could say "i see what's happening on the streets", but that doesn't necessarily mean i literally saw each incident happen. But i believe the people who are telling me they saw each incident happen. Or i believe that Tony's cousin saw it happen when Tony tells me about it.

Like when he talks about the woman who needs services but the services department is over-full of immigrants, its possible he literally went to the services department and saw the over flow of immigrants personally OR just the woman told him she went for help and was stuck behind a crowd of immigrants. You'd have to find his youtube channel i guess and see if he is filming things first hand or just reporting what others tell him. I would think if hes an influencer he has a camera on him and maybe would have said "i filmed them nabbing ducks". ??

So just carelessly spreading unfounded defamatory rumours about sections of the community?

 

[Mendel]

Does it seem like he's saying he has witnessed the duck beheading firsthand?, since he said he's seeing "what's going on in these streets", and that he's "getting out here every day, and broadcasting this". Or is this me misinterpreting his statement?

There is nothing in the whole testimony that makes me think it's anything but second-hand stories. Some stories explicitly so.

Note the duck has become a second-hand goose on inquiry.

(And don't forget that there are hunting seasons for both because many Americans eat them (farm-raised, too). McDonalds doesn't serve them, though.)

 

[Mendel]

So just carelessly spreading unfounded defamatory rumours about sections of the community?

for clicks, yes

manufactured outrage sells

explanations don't.
why are the immigrants down at the welfare office? he doesn't ask, he doesn't explain, he's not a journalist, he's an influencer and deserves no trust

 

[yoshy]

So just carelessly spreading unfounded defamatory rumours about sections of the community?

Yup. This whole situation has literally been nothing but abject and open racism and xenophobia.

 

[TheNZThrower]

Source: https://youtu.be/WiBB_XAKDec?t=177

Thanks for the transcript! That seems to be him contradicting an earlier statement he made in this interview here:

Transcript [T-3:08]:

When people started hitting me up like "there's a wreck [caused by Haitians] over here, there's a wreck over there"... Ok, I've just seen a Haitian just grab up a duck in the park, and cut its head off and walk off with it. I said "WTF"? I said "hell nah". I said "OK, I'm going Downtown and they gotta fix this shit. Because y'all not about to be wrecking into everything, then on top of wrecking into everything, you're further gonna grabbing up ducks?

Those motherf*ckers are like "it's not facts". So why are people calling 911 talking about they're [Haitians] walking down the street with geese? A 911 call came out the same day, and the girl said that they came out, grabbed the duck, cut their head off, all the same day. And then, y'know, it's like WTF?

 

[NoParty]

for clicks, yes

manufactured outrage sells

explanations don't.
why are the immigrants down at the welfare office? he doesn't ask, he doesn't explain, he's not a journalist, he's an influencer and deserves no trust

A couple of things: Yes, the monetization of YouTube (some of us are old enough to remember when it
didn't exist, and then, when it did, but no one could make a dime off of it), has skyrocketed the amount
of conspiracy theories & racism. So, I totally agree with "manufactured outrage sells."

However, there are also just traditional ugly racists who constantly try to justify their racism by
spreading ugliness about jews, immigrants, blacks, muslims, trans, etc. And surely there are
YouTube channels in which both manufactured outrage and traditional racism are driving the content.

One more thing: While it seems pretty clear that little or none of this duck, etc., nonsense was actually viewed first hand, I don't even see any reason to believe that the "woman in the services dept" actually
exists, but even if she did, whose to say that the people that she sees there are actually immigrants?
Even well-intentioned, decent folks are not necessarily good at IDing people they don't know.

There's just soooooo damned little to hang your hat on here, that most people will just shrug,
though those already with a racist orientation will eagerly grab on to it...

 

[John J.]

I know a single mom that FaceTimed me tonight, FaceTimed me this morning at the welfare office that really needed something. And it's nothing but immigrants over there.

(Post #208)

Raises the question, how did she know they were all immigrants?

 

[deirdre]

So just carelessly spreading unfounded defamatory rumours about sections of the community?

to be fair MB too has spread unfounded defamatory rumors about people, and it seems like some people here love to blindly believe it and "like" the comments. Two wrongs dont make a right, but just saying i think all these labels and judgments of "racism" about a community we dont like are just as bad. Human nature.

 

[deirdre]

I know a single mom that FaceTimed me tonight, FaceTimed me this morning at the welfare office that really needed something. And it's nothing but immigrants over there.

(Post #208)

Raises the question, how did she know they were all immigrants?

Typically its when they aren't speaking english or have a heavy accent. Like we know Mick is an immigrant because of his heavy accent, even kids of British parents dont grow up in America with an English accent.

 

[FatPhil]

Raises the question, how did she know they were all immigrants?

 

[John J.]

Typically its when they aren't speaking english or have a heavy accent. Like we know Mick is an immigrant because of his heavy accent, even kids of British parents dont grow up in America with an English accent.

Yes, in fairness, maybe. Wouldn't be a good rule-of-thumb in e.g. London but perhaps that's not a useful comparison to Springfield.

Had to smile at Mick having a heavy accent! Almost imperceptible to me, i.e. accent not much different to mine- maybe a bit more northern.
In passing and off-topic, I read that some people who claim to have had communication from aliens (perhaps in an abduction scenario) say that the ETs didn't have an accent. But the claimants are from different areas in different countries; it's likely they "heard" the ETs speak in their own (the claimant's) accent, which might indicate something relevant. Not sure of source; possibly
Dark White: Aliens, Abductions and the UFO Obsession, Jim Schnabel, 1994.

 

[deirdre]

I read that some people who claim to have had communication from aliens (perhaps in an abduction scenario) say that the ETs didn't have an accent. But the claimants are from different areas in different countries; it's likely they "heard" the ETs speak in their own (the claimant's) accent, which might indicate something relevant

years ago i read that news people from all over america use a "Massachusettes" accent (although obviously not Boston like Charles Winchesters accent in MASH) becaue it is considered "no accent". so maybe the aliens read that article too.

Source: https://x.com/EllenFlem/status/1613647115531558926?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1613647115531558926%7Ctwgr%5E4285d5181c721c2de8a2f7e5fa56a5be963d97ee%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwokq.com%2Ffunny-video-shows-reporters-boston-accent-slipping-out-when-saying-new-hampshire%2F

 

[NoParty]

to be fair MB too has spread unfounded defamatory rumors about people, and it seems like some people here love to blindly believe it and "like" the comments. Two wrongs dont make a right, but just saying i think all these labels and judgments of "racism" about a community we dont like are just as bad. Human nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False...ence or false,"comparing apples and oranges."

 

[John J.]

years ago i read that news people from all over america use a "Massachusettes" accent (although obviously not Boston like Charles Winchesters accent in MASH)

Used to love watching MASH with my Dad. It took me a while to realise Charles Winchester was American like the others!
I was quite little though.

(Edited to add: I thought he was a pompous Englishman).

 

[deirdre]

Used to love watching MASH with my Dad. It took me a while to realise Charles Winchester was American like the others!
I was quite little though.

well he was posh Boston, so like you have a posh British accent that is different from the typical known everyman British accent.

 

[Ann K]

even kids of British parents dont grow up in America with an English accent.

I did (well, Scottish, not English), and I have been in this country since I was three, just after WWII ended. I was, of course, raised by parents whose accents were retained for their entire lives, but I still have a little of it, such that other Scots recognize it. It's the same thing for, say, southern parents to come to the northern states, yet their children learn an accent from their parents that identifies them as a southerner for the rest of their lives.

 

[deirdre]

I did (well, Scottish, not English), and I have been in this country since I was three, just after WWII ended. I was, of course, raised by parents whose accents were retained for their entire lives, but I still have a little of it, such that other Scots recognize it. It's the same thing for, say, southern parents to come to the northern states, yet their children learn an accent from their parents that identifies them as a southerner for the rest of their lives.

certainly some young people affect an accent, like alot of hispanic american young people are speaking with a spanish accent now, but that is a choice not a true accent. my own british accent is killer when i turn it on. I dont think Mick CAN speak in an American accent. (which is fine, the english accent is one of the sexiest)

 

[deirdre]

That seems to be him contradicting an earlier statement he made in this interview here:

no hes not saying he saw it. hes saying someone hit him up and told him "i seen a duck get grabbed". "people would hit me" means contacted.