Claim: Steorn's Orbo "Free" Energy Device. USB Charger

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
they would have fun leagley speeking shipping a Li-ion battery with a internal charging source in the UK post I can think of numinous way that would go pare shaped
Indeed - these are the restrictions set by the Royal Mail:

http://www.royalmail.com/business/help/sending/restricted-goods

Is the Orbo "always on" or does it have a power switch? How do you stop the perpetual motion? ;)
 

txt29

Active Member
So far there is no evidence they ever shipped a single device containing a Li-ion battery (not speaking at all about the "internal charging", which never existed). The only device that was proven to be really shipped is the one of Frank Acland, that has "no battery by mistake" and that does not generate any energy anyway (not even those continuous 0.4W of Orbo packs claimed by Steorn). And since they do not intend shipping anything anyway, they can rest quiet, without fearing any hassle with the Irish (not UK) post.

You are right of course, that even if they ever wanted to ship anything, they would have hard time due to the restrictions. In fact this was also one of their arguments for the delays, that their customers hear since December 2015
 
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txt29

Active Member
Steorn published new video explaining the internals of the Orbo box. Strangely, like practically all other Free Energy devices, it also needs a source of energy. In case of Orbo, it includes two 9V batteries as "voltage reference source"

https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/10153531949942672/

Of course, the two batteries will not allow Orbo to charge any portable devices, but as already explained in previous posts, that never seemed to be the plan for Steorn. They only need to keep the hoax running, and want to generate the maximum of delays. Not surprisingly, no Free Energy supporters question the sense of the batteries, and do not mind that the only device they have for testing cannot deliver any significant power except of a 1s long flash of a LED lamp (1.5W) once an hour. Although some of them wonder whether Orbo will be able to deliver the advertised energy, they do not suspect any foul play. They happily go on measuring and testing this device, despite that Steorn has now shown that it is powered by 9V batteries. At the rate the energy can be extracted from the box, it may take many months before the batteries get depleted.
 

mm1145

Member
. Not surprisingly, no Free Energy supporters question the sense of the batteries,
I am allays amassed how many free energy devices seam to need a battery. I remember a de vice in the past that claimed to work but needed a dead battery in it "to provide focus" and not because the battery was powering the device
 

Miss VocalCord

Active Member
Steorn published new video explaining the internals of the Orbo box. Strangely, like practically all other Free Energy devices, it also needs a source of energy. In case of Orbo, it includes two 9V batteries as "voltage reference source"
https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/10153531949942672/
What is a little bit surprising to me (well maybe not knowing Steorn's history) is that at -3.00 into the video (where he is about to deattach the connected phone) the voltage is at about 3.0V (he explains the voltage is cutoff at 2.9V).

However as soon as it is cut off it jumps back to 4.5V immediately?
 

mm1145

Member
Steorn published new video explaining the internals of the Orbo box. Strangely, like practically all other Free Energy devices, it also needs a source of energy. In case of Orbo, it includes two 9V batteries as "voltage reference source"

https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/10153531949942672/
I do not know much about this sort of electrical engerning but what is a voltage refrance source and why would you need two battries for it? would 1 not do? or maybe somthign else that is not a battery?
 

txt29

Active Member
What is a little bit surprising to me (well maybe not knowing Steorn's history) is that at -3.00 into the video (where he is about to deattach the connected phone) the voltage is at about 3.0V (he explains the voltage is cutoff at 2.9V).
Frankly told, I have no idea. I've cut the video just seconds after McCarthy revealed the thing is powered by 9V batteries, at the beginning. Anything he then claims and demonstrates is totally irrelevant, because already the existence of the "reference voltage source" is not only a total bunk, but it also denies all their previous claims and demonstrations. In previous videos they showed "working" circuits without any "reference" batteries, they also showed the alleged content of the Ocube and Ophone, without 9V batteries (watch for example their Webinar 2 video, or this one: https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/10153398806872672/)

After seeing the video, I lost interest in debunking Orbo, because in my eyes even their biggest supporters must see now that it is a fraud, hence it makes no sense in wasting more time with them.
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
I imagine that if your Orbo stops producing free energy, you can repair it by simply swapping in new voltage reference batteries. :cool:
 

txt29

Active Member
I imagine that if your Orbo stops producing free energy, you can repair it by simply swapping in new voltage reference batteries. :cool:
That may show more difficult to do than to tell - the batteries sit deep in the epoxy resin. You can always simply attach external "reference voltages source" to the terminals - I think the best would be an AC adapter.

 

David Byrden

New Member
the existence of the "reference voltage source" is not only a total bunk, but it also denies all their previous claims and demonstrations.
Their claim is that the batteries don't do work; they merely provide a reference voltage.

If that is what the Orbo requires, we must ask why they didn't use much smaller batteries? For example, a number of watch batteries in series.

It's puzzling that they put such beefy, hard-working batteries into the Orbo, if they are not required to do work.

David
 

txt29

Active Member
Since their "orbo cell / electret" allegedly generates voltage proportionally to the length of the foil, they could simply use a smaller "orbo cell" with higher voltage as the "reference" for the main one, generating the power. When they demonstrated their "orbo electret", they connected it to the scope or multimeter directly, without any external battery, and the voltage was there, hence there is no reason why it could not be used as "reference".

Anyway, it is completely unclear what the "reference voltage" is supposed to mean. If taken in the right sense, a small osculation circuit with a zener diode would be probably the best for creating a stable reference voltage from any source (including the orbo cell self), while keeping the dimensions several orders of magnitude smaller.
 

David Byrden

New Member
There's probably no point in discussing the details of the device. Stand well back and look at the overall picture. Look at which way the ship is sailing. And which way it COULD have sailed.....

If you discover a "free energy" technique, what's the smartest thing to do? Study how it works, invent as many implementations and related tech as you can, patent them all, then license them to big manufacturers who can add them to their products (e.g. phones). By focusing on your discovery - the ONE thing that you have, that nobody else has - you can explore and claim new territory.

Steorn don't seem to be doing this.

Steorn are selling their OWN consumer products. And I think the Steorn products can't possibly succeed. The phone? Most people won't give up their smartphones, with all their features, for the mild convenience of not charging. The Ocube? It's large, it's heavy, and you'd have to run it for many years before the "free electricity" would cover its cost.

If the Steorn products work, they will only have niche markets, if any. Modern battery technology is impressive. I challenge you to think of a market where the Steorn products are necessary. Bear in mind that these first releases seem to be highly unreliable; did Steorn not warn us of a 25% failure rate?

So, you may think, "That doesn't matter. Steorn don't need to make a profit off the products- the products are just demonstrations." Well, my friend, there are much cheaper and more effective ways to "demonstrate" technology, and I believe Steorn have tried and failed to demonstrate their technology openly, in front of experts.

Anyway, if you think these products are just demonstrations, read Steorn's own recent statement:

"In the event that the company is unsuccessful, the going concern principle may cease to apply with consequent impact on the future viability of its activities."

Yes, you read that correctly. If these products fail to make a profit, they can shut down the company! Have you thought of that market yet?

What's going on? I propose a theory. I think that Steorn NEED the products to fail, as an EXCUSE to shut down the firm... "We tried our best, yadda yadda. Risk of doing business on the bleeding edge. We're tragic heroes like Clive Sinclair. Your money is gone. Nobody to blame."

I think they will refund those customers who make a claim in time, thus meeting their legal obligations. I think that no obvious laws will be broken. And I think that the investors will lose everything - because that's not illegal.

I think that only a PART of that 20 million will have been consumed by the Steorn enterprise. I think that millions of the invested Euros will quietly disappear.

I think that makes a LOT more sense than a thousand-euro orange skull that can save you a few pennies each day that it doesn't mysteriously fail.
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Yes it's the bizarre lack of fuss and ambition that seems the biggest giveaway. If they had really discovered a way to produce free energy, it would be the biggest scientific advance since... well, ever. Even the teeniest bit of over-unity could be harnessed with positive feedback and the world would never be the same again. They wouldn't be messing around making phone chargers and clunky brick-phones.

It would be like discovering nuclear energy and only using it to make luminous watch faces.

As for "If these products fail to make a profit".... well, if you have just rewritten the laws of physics and still can't turn that to your advantage, then perhaps a career in business isn't for you.
 

txt29

Active Member
I propose a theory. I think that Steorn NEED the products to fail, as an EXCUSE to shut down the firm...
Yes, that's a possibility too, but you should not forget that Steorn's products started to fail with the creation of the company in 2000, and continue to fail without any single exception during all those 16 years. And still, the scamming machine continues to generate new and new investment money.

In 2014, when we practically did not hear about them, they still increased the value of their shares by €700,000 to the total amount of over €21M! I believe that due to the publicity they got during the past five months of the latest Ocube affair, they may have increased the shares significantly more than in 2014, when they were practically invisible.

So do they seek the exit route? Well, I do not exclude it, but seeing that they certainly had to invest quite a lot of time and money into this latest performance, the purpose can also simply be just the funding, seeking more investors. Yes, it is very well possible that they have extracted all remaining money of investors from the company by bloating the expenses for the production of Ocubes, and will now indeed abandon the company, but I would not exclude that they will continue with their scam indefinitely, coming with a new round of bunk in a year or two, as they always did during those 16 years.
 
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mm1145

Member
Anyway, it is completely unclear what the "reference voltage" is supposed to mean. If taken in the right sense, a small osculation circuit with a zener diode would be probably the best for creating a stable reference voltage from any source (including the orbo cell self), while keeping the dimensions several orders of magnitude smaller.
gose back to my question if the 9v cells are only for "refrance" why is there a need for 2 of them why not 1 surley that gives you 9v just as well as 2?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
gose back to my question if the 9v cells are only for "refrance" why is there a need for 2 of them why not 1 surley that gives you 9v just as well as 2?
They claim they need 18v, so have two batteries in series.
 

David Byrden

New Member
I would not exclude that they will continue with their scam indefinitely
I would be very surprised.
This is the first time they have put their devices permanently in the hands of outsiders, I believe? And those people paid handsomely, so if the devices fail, they will become hostile outsiders. A Google search would then return multiple stories of disappointment and anger; enough to deter the most scientifically ignorant investor. No, I think they have "crossed the Rubicon" by selling their products.

Imagine being a scammer. You might be able to run your scam indefinitely, but it will always represent work rather than play. Imagine having enough profit to live handsomely for the rest of your life. Why should you bother to scam forever? "Quit and never work another day", is a better option!

So, I think that sentence that's (according to the Sunday Business Post) in the Steorn financial report is highly significant. It's fair warning that they might quit soon, if these products are not "commercially successful". And how CAN they be COMMERCIALLY successful? A phone with no screen? A charger that won't fit in your pocket?

Why insist that the products must be COMMERCIALLY successful, that they must make enough profit to run the company from that time forwards? Why not raise more investment capital, or license the power sources? It stinks!

I predict the end of this enterprise in 2016.
 

txt29

Active Member
This is the first time they have put their devices permanently in the hands of outsiders, I believe?
One single person received a product, and he was not a total stranger either. Everyone who paid will get a refund anyway (but I do not think there are more than a dozen of persons), and their supporters still believe Steorn has the technology, they only think Steorn lacks the manufacturing skills.

Whether they close the firm now, does not depend on the satisfaction of the customers, but only on the number of shares they sold during the 5 months campaign. If it failed, the closure is likely. If they raised some interesting capital again (like they did always until now during all those 16 years of deplorable failures), they cannot simply take it and run away, they will have to continue until they extract the money from the corporation, or until the next round.

If their plan was really to close the company, I think they would not need to make it so long and painful. It could have been done very quickly, efficiently, and with less losses. I'd tell that their primary plan was raising more capital while creating the impression they have a working product on the market. Anyway we do not know yet, whether they succeeded or not, hence it is premature to speculate whether they stop.
 

David Byrden

New Member
If their plan was really to close the company, I think they would not need to make it so long and painful. It could have been done very quickly
I love exploring these hypothetical scenarios!

Yes, I suppose it's possible to close the company quickly and deliberately - that would impose immediate losses on all the investors, no? And then, there would be a lot of ill-will towards the owners, making it unpleasant for them to live in Ireland, no matter how much money they walked away with.
By releasing some doomed-to-fail "products", they can give the appearance of being FORCED to close, against their will. They can evade blame.

I think the statement in Steorn's accounts, quoted by the Sunday Business Post, is deliberate preparation for this scenario:

"dependent on the commercially successful outcome of its research and development activities in order to generate future income. In the event that the company is unsuccessful, the going concern principle may cease to apply"

The phrase "going concern principle" is accountant-speak for "staying in business". This is a warning, but it's not a shouted warning... it's a warning that's quietly left on the table. AFTER you lose all your investment, they can say "We warned you".

Well, that's what I think, anyway. I'm not making any definite statements here. They can afford lawyers!
 

mm1145

Member
it seames that Frank Acland at Ecat world has managed to break his Ocube and so they sent him a "testing kit" a power pack form a Ophone

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/29/ecw-orbo-testing-thread-week-4-new-power-pack-arrives/

this only to me brings up more questions witch the most prominent is if they are willing to send a test pack to frank why not to any of the engineers associated with universities and the like? now they have shown a willingness to send examples to frank would they do so if asked? and if not what would there excuse be?

franks tests are quite interesting but I found this comment in the comments most telling

I would say that a device that breaks so easily and can not demonstrate to deliver what it promised dose not work at least not as a commercial device.
 

386

Member
We've all been anticipating some dramatic end to the blatant Orbo scam, but it appears to just be dying out in an uninteresting, lacklustre fizzle. The company has done this before. They're dormant for a few years and then push for an explosion of investors with nothing to show for it. The fact that nobody has successfully taken legal action against them is most baffling. It's blatant fraud. The only thing to really speculate on is Shaun McCarthy's exit strategy.

No updates from initial "testimonials". No updates from skeptics that were promised samples. No updates from customers that had shipments repeatedly delayed and promised were sent out a month ago. No patent approval. Absurd business model for a world-changing magic "free" energy device that revolutionises thousands of years of innovations and discoveries. No explanation for the physics it utilises or the reason a standard 9v battery is necessary for the device to use as "reference".

I suspect the Steorn PR is crafted in such a way that it targets uneducated people in the same way those Nigerian prince letters do. They contain deliberate faults/flaws/typos because they don't want to be challenged by educated people, they want to filter out the skeptics as fast as possible so they can reach their target audience more effectively.
 

386

Member
I just came across this recent video showcasing "Blackbox" - an alleged self-charging energy device very reminiscent of the Orbo:


He doesn't appear to be taking preorders yet but he has a seemingly significant following who comment and vote on his videos. He also runs a website (http://www.shop.quantamagneticstore.com/) where they sell various "alternative energy" style generator kits for thousands of dollars with product taglines such as: "Advanced onboard controls allow this electromagnetic gyroscopic-flywheel generator to be pulse tuned to the earth's resonant heartbeat". The Quanta Magnetics' Facebook page has a post from April 25th claiming that the Blackbox will be available for sale soon.

As for direct Orbo news, after months of silence, Steorn unexpectedly posted on their Facebook page last week: "Folks, we'll be posting a new video around the middle of next week so please tune in then!".
 
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txt29

Active Member
Yes, this guy combines several other recent scams - Orbo (electrets), ADGEX ELFE (Schumann resonances), Yildiz (magnetic motors), and who knows what more. I did not study it much, till now. As far as I could see, he does not even make much specific claims or explanations of his technology, so there is not much to debunk. Anyway, I think it does not belong to this thread, but perhaps it would deserve a separate one.
 
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386

Member
Yeah, I was hesitant to post at first in case it was too off-topic, but I was mentioning it in the context of being a duplicate of the Orbo scam in question. He actually makes reference to Orbo in some of his videos. I mostly didn't start a new thread yet because as you said, there's nothing really new or unique worth debunking.
 
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txt29

Active Member
Yes, I understand. I had in fact the same temptation to post it either here or in another thread. Let's wait whether he comes out with some more specific or new claims worthy of debunking, or at least whether he gets more attention from the public. It then may make sense analyzing it closer.

In the meantime McCarty of Steorn promised a new video next week, so I am curious what new BS he pulls out his sleeve.
 

mm1145

Member
In the meantime McCarty of Steorn promised a new video next week, so I am curious what new BS he pulls out his sleeve.
it has been a while since his last post and since he has used the "technicle dificutlies" excuse I confedentley expect the "goverment sabotarge/ supresion" angle soon

intr4estingley enougth when this started I posted on this article

http://pesn.com/2015/12/03/9602697_Steorns-Orbo-power-cell_products-available-for-sale/

saying

"so the date on this article is december the 3rd I have made a note on my calender for june 3rd ( 6 mounths away 4 times as long as they claim to need) if by then they are not shipping products I will be forced to markup another scam I fully expect to be doing that"

and somebody told me not to be so sceptical and that they where already taking orders so would have to ship

I wander what will have happened on this font by my 6 month deadline?
 

386

Member
With typical delays, Steorn just posted an update on their Facebook page with a link to a live Twitch stream:

j - orbo update.png
(Source: https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/)

This is currently what the stream is broadcasting:
j - orbo twitch.png
(Source: twitch.tv/orboteam)

There is also a post from them on the stream:
j - orbo twitch post.png

Seems now they're trying to prove their power cell output with an experimental motor design... What an excellent benchmark o_O

The update also neglects to address anything about the delayed shipments or the technical faults they were allegedly having. I don't have much else to say, but wanted to document this now in case it's unavailable later.
 
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mm1145

Member
With typical delays, Steorn just posted an update on their Facebook page with a link to a live Twitch stream:

View attachment 19145
(Source: https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/)

This is currently what the stream is broadcasting:
View attachment 19146
(Source: twitch.tv/orboteam)

There is also a post from them on the stream:
View attachment 19147

Seems they've gone into experimental motor design now... What an excellent benchmark o_O

The update also neglects to address anything about the delayed shipments or the technical faults they were allegedly having. I don't have much else to say, but wanted to document this now in case it's unavailable later.
I lack engineering knolage to understand what they are showing. even amusing it is not faked somehow dose it autuley show anything useful?
 

mm1145

Member
Seems they've gone into experimental motor design now... What an excellent benchmark o_O
I assumed they meant the battery. but since they are breaking the laws of physics on conservation on energy maybe they are going for the second law as well and have created frictionless bearings?
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
I assumed they meant the battery. but since they are breaking the laws of physics on conservation on energy maybe they are going for the second law as well and have created frictionless bearings?
The original Orbo way back in 2006 was claimed to be a magnetic motor. Now 10 years later they have a prototype motor driven by an Orbo solid-state battery. Very bizarre.
 

rdrast

New Member
They don't get it, do that?
Send it to an independent testing lab. Videos, even "Live Streaming" ones are proof of, well, absolutely nothing.
 

NoParty

Senior Member
But this isn't aimed at debunkers, obviously, who will guffaw, scoff, and mock...appropriately.

It's just one more stall to string along those who are a bit confused, but still holding out hope...
Steorn are not good at making magical free-energy devices (but hey, who is?!?) but they are
absolute masters at running a "We'll deliver on our fantastic promises, soon!" show seemingly indefinitely...

Magic energy devices.jpg
 

Martin Brandt

New Member
I do not have the equipment to prove or disprove any of the claimants on the internet. I have watched many as I am truly interested in a subject that can ultimately improve life and save the world from extinction.
I am however very observant and pay close attention to the actions and the stuttering of most of these inventors.
Lets face it, should one discover a way of inventing a self charging battery that can power anything significant to the point where it can actually be used as a power source by maybe the poor to generate heat for a stove or light up their house etc. would they not keep the identity of the ingredients used in the making secret until patented and then market the item. Everybody has a percentage of greed in them and ultimately it is about making money.
I suspect, however can not prove it. this is where the tech brain guys come in. I have noticed that whenever these demonstrations take place there is allays a great amount of fidgeting going on. the camera is allays scanning all over the show. Was it me I would at least (that is if I want to impress my audience ) set up a decent camera on a tripod, review my presentation before before airing it on the internet.
One example look for the leads of the testing equipment, when crucial testing is done the cables are not fully visible.
The moving around of the item that's being tested, almost as if the person is not sure where it should be positioned. Well this points to an old 1930's odd scams where they used similar tactics in calling up ghosts etc. In those early days there was either one or more transformers hidden under the table that are remotely operated by you assistant. So unless that person does the testing in the open and in front of unbiased persons??????. If it quacks like a duck the chances are that it is a duck.
I will follow your sit diligently to see if and when somebody actually comes up with a believable solution. I am quietly experimenting with stuff myself and have some ideas. The thing is I am very critical and would not dream of posting something that has not been proven.
Most of these sight that come up with these claims, only need to hold your attention for a while to get paid by the advertisers that use that site. 50% of the people that look at the site does not readily know how to bypass the add so it would appear that it is a potential customer reading the add. Kaching the till goes for the guy who caused you to tarry on that site.
Sorry I sometimes get a bit carried away. call it old age.
Martin Brandt
 

mm1145

Member
looks like they may have finely admitted that they can not deliver what they sold

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/...nvestors-told-to-chip-in-more-or-lose-it-all/

this is the comment sums up most what fasinates me about this

 

txt29

Active Member
It does not stop to amaze me that people, even after a decade of being lied to, still do not get that this was the plan since the very beginning. And I do not understand why they tell that Shaun McCarthy of Steorn is an incompetent con artist. On my mind, ripping off investors of more than 20 millions of Euros is not a sign of an incompetent con artist, but a rather skilled and a successful one. Pretending to be an incompetent engineer is an entirely different topic, and it was definitely always a part of their game.

I am persuaded that their last performance with the Orbo Cubes was just the way to extract the remaining money from their corporate account. They cannot simply withdraw all the money from the account and run away - they had to create some reason for it. Producing a thousand dummy boxes was certainly a suitable occasion for extracting all what was remaining in the bank. Whether the investors will simply accept the loss and live with it, or will continue pumping money into Steorn, is a question. But seeing how unwise investors can be, and have been during a decade, I would not be surprised at all, if they continued paying Steorn, hoping for a success ... s∞n.
 

Hevach

Senior Member
Good investors don't stick around this long, which can be a shame - a couple honest-to-goodness advancements ended up dead because investors bailed when the payoff looked to be more than another year away. Once an investor's been on the hook for this long, though, all bets are off - the rational ones are long gone.

If you have a product that will really take this long to bring to market, you go for that government money. Problem is, as bungling as the government is, they will tear apart your prototype and vet the hell out of it. They're known to throw good money after bad for far longer than a cash furnace should be allowed to continue, but those cases the company actually has the product they're claiming to be working on, and it shows all kinds of promise, it's just very good.
 

mm1145

Member
http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/11/steorn-liquidates/

liquidation_article_small.jpg

like the person in this article I too would like to hear the full story it would be interesting to see how you run a company with a product that everybody who should know tells you can't work..
 
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