Claim: Steorn's Orbo "Free" Energy Device. USB Charger

[mm1145]

http://orbo.com/products/ocube

apparently it is no longer sold out now it still has a 6 week delivery time but you can buy a "everlasting battery" right now if you want

I wander how long under EU law they can get away with selling a device that can not do what they claim it does?

*edit to get delivery time correct*

 

[mm1145]

apparently they are shipping "...by the end of this week or early next week."

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/01/shipping_update_and_business_post_articl.html

so who is going to be awaiting the delivery of there world changing charger

 

[mm1145]

intresting article here with a vid of the tour of there office/factory/plant

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...sh-firm-invents-everlasting-battery-1.2506832

I think the person in the article expresses my point quite well here

"You have this logic trap," he says. "[The general perception is] okay, what we are claiming is clearly impossible. They are clearly not idiots – therefore it must be a con. It must be a fraud.

"Or it is something else – it's a viral marketing campaign. I think after 15 years, a viral marketing campaign is probably not realistic. Therefore [what's left is that]...clearly it's a fraud? Again the logic is quite compelling."!

McCarthy's point is that if he were a fraudster it would be easier to pocket the cash and run. Further, touring the Steorn facility, nothing is held back, everything is open (bar the initial sales figures which will be reported, he says at the end of the first quarter, 2016) and it suggests if this is all some mad ploy it is quickly running out of road.

I still think it is most likley a fraud but as he said it is rapidly running out of road here

 

[txt29]

The latest news from Shaun McCarthy of Steorn are that someone has allegedly installed spy cameras in their premises (see McCarthy's personal FB page at https://www.facebook.com/shaundmccarthy)

https://www.facebook.com/shaundmccarthy/posts/10153389611093977?pnref=story

Not that I would completely exclude the possibility that some of the scammed investors hired a private eye to secure some evidence of the fraud, but much more likely explanation is that it is just another trick of Steorn. With an alleged intruder penetrating their space, they can now easily back off of the long promised shipping, telling the Orbos need to be tested again because of suspicion of sabotage. Eventually, their next step may be a pretended sabotage, robbery, or another disaster preventing the shipments and delaying them a few months (or years) again.

 

[mm1145]

..... they can now easily back off of the long promised shipping, telling the Orbos need to be tested again because of suspicion of sabotage. Eventually, they next step may be a pretended sabotage, robbery, or another disaster preventing the shipments and delaying them a few months (or years) again.

yes this is much more of what I would be expecting.

 

[txt29]

I think the person in the article expresses my point quite well here

...McCarthy's point is that if he were a fraudster it would be easier to pocket the cash and run. ...

Mm1145 you seem to be caught in the same fraudster trick as many others. The fraudster will easily tell to his victim - look I cannot be a fraudster because I look too much like one - I would have to be a fool to attempt such an evident fraud. And, of course, the naive victim will nod, and even excuse himself for the "stupid" suspicion he had.

What Shaun does not tell in the video is, that he does not bother at all about the money from the Orbo sales. He does not plan to steal that money at all - that would be indeed very stupid and easily punishable by the law. He only hopes to get a few more millions from investors in the mean time, due to the publicity he now gets. And there is practically no way the investors could get their money back, or get Shaun arrested. He does not need to run anywhere with their money even if he never delivers a single functional device.

 

[Freak]

The latest news from Shaun McCarthy of Steorn are that someone has allegedly installed spy cameras in their premises (see McCarthy's personal FB page at https://www.facebook.com/shaundmccarthy)

OK, so he claims that he found a camera. Makes sense if someone wanted to see what he was working on.

But he found it INSIDE a cable conduit? That makes a whole lot less sense.

 

[mm1145]

Mm1145 you seem to be caught in the same fraudster trick as many others. The fraudster will easily tell to his victim - look I cannot be a fraudster because I look too much like one - I would have to be a fool to attempt such an evident fraud. And, of course, the naive victim will nod, and even excuse himself for the "stupid" suspicion he had.

What Shaun does not tell in the video is, that he does not bother at all about the money from the Orbo sales. He does not plan to steal that money at all - that would be indeed very stupid and easily punishable by the law. He only hopes to get a few more millions from investors in the mean time, due to the publicity he now gets. And there is practically no way the investors could get their money back, or get Shaun arrested. He does not need to run anywhere with their money even if he never delivers a single functional device.

right but the point is that he has already taken money form sales for a device that can not work. even if he now gives it back he is in interesting waters leagley speaking (do we have a law expert here?) remember somboddy went to jail for selling devices he knew did not work as he claimed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29459896)

I know how this sort of scam usuley goes and I am not saying I believe him what I am saying is this is not how this sort of scam usuley goes they put on demonstrations say they have an working prototype that would not work under "hot lights" or had a "mistrious malfunction" or would not work because of the "negative energy" of the viewers.

they then swear that they have had it working before and say that they need a little more investment and will have a product to market in 6 months.

eather that or they do not sell a product they sell you there time and expertise in building your own and charge you outrages consultancy fees to get it to work claiming each time it just needs a little more tweeking.

but what interests me is that this time they have done nether they have put a product on the market and have taken money for it and saying it will ship before the end of the month (they are fast running out of time as was said this will be resolved soon one way or another) I keep expecting it to fall into one of the previous routes every step (they would not actuality start taking orders, they would take orders but not take money, etc) but so far they are still playing it straight and what intreges me is how far they will go with this

like was said we know this can not work but he is acting like he thinks it dose right up and possible past the point of no return

it is like watching a man drive towards a painted on tunnel on a cliff face you know it can not go into it and you know that if he hits it it will be bad for him and you expect him to swerve off at every moment but he keeps on driving and eventuality you start to wander what he knows you do not.

 

[txt29]

right but the point is that he has already taken money form sales for a device that can not work. even if he now gives it back he is in interesting waters leagley speaking (do we have a law expert here?) remember somboddy went to jail for selling devices he knew did not work as he claimed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29459896)

Yes, and this is exactly why I do not believe that they will ever complete any sale. They will not ship any products. They will go on with the delays as long as possible before refunding those who already paid. But even if they shipped some dysfunctional devices, they would not risk any jail, unless they refused refunding or exchanging them for working ones. The burden of evidence would be on your side - you would have to proof that it does not work and that there was an intent.

Still, the investments are raining in, in the meantime, filling the pockets of Shaun, so he cannot care less about the Orbo sales. He will not hit any painted tunnel as you describe. He never had any intention to drive in it.

 

[Whitebeard]

but what interests me is that this time they have done nether they have put a product on the market and have taken money for it and saying it will ship before the end of the month (they are fast running out of time as was said this will be resolved soon one way or another) I keep expecting it to fall into one of the previous routes every step (they would not actuality start taking orders, they would take orders but not take money, etc) but so far they are still playing it straight and what intreges me is how far they will go with this

There is also the scam where a person claims a device / service will be delivered. Money is taken and banked, then the delivery date is pushed back a few times until the punters (marks) are screaming for delivery or their money back, and when the threats of legal action are imminent, the money is then refunded leaving the scammer with the interest earned.

 

[mm1145]

Yes, and this is exactly why I do not believe that they will ever complete any sale. They will not ship any products. They will go on with the delays as long as possible before refunding those who already paid. But even if they shipped some dysfunctional devices, they would not risk any jail, unless they refused refunding or exchanging them for working ones. The burden of evidence would be on your side - you would have to proof that it does not work and that there was an intent..

if I had bought one (did not not guilable and am broke) I would think that my case that they did not work and he had intent to not sell a working device would be the fact that the laws of thurmo dynamics have been explained to him before (they humiusley qoute them on his wall) he must have known what he was selling was imposible.

He never had any intention to drive in it.

but as yet he is showing no intent of slowing down or turning.

 

[Mick West]

There is also the scam where a person claims a device / service will be delivered. Money is taken and banked, then the delivery date is pushed back a few times until the punters (marks) are screaming for delivery or their money back, and when the threats of legal action are imminent, the money is then refunded leaving the scammer with the interest earned.

That does not sounds like a viable business model, as the "interest earned" would be very low at current interest rates, and probably less than any overhead.

 

[Mick West]

intresting article here with a vid of the tour of there office/factory/plant

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/...sh-firm-invents-everlasting-battery-1.2506832

Fascinating video, he claims that they are "converting time into energy, by slowing down electromagnetic fields". And the best way of demonstrating this is a selling some really expensive cell phone chargers.

The biggest red flag, as with all of these things things, is why don't they simply demonstrate it?

I suspect they will eventually ship something. It will charge your phone maybe 5-10 times, then stop working.

What's really unclear here is what the end game is. It does not seem like he can really get out of this without going to jail. So he's either got to keep going, and/or stage some huge act of sabotage

For the really interested, there's an unofficial Steorn forum consisting mostly of people mocking them, but also keeping very close tabs on what they are saying and doing:
http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4652&page=1#Item_0

2 hours ago:
http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4652&page=101

 

[Mick West]

and they are going to ship them "potted" (with the internal components encased in resin), so you won't be able to take them apart without "damaging" the magic bits.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0650576598977.386005.644973976&type=3&theater

 

[skephu]

That does not sounds like a viable business model, as the "interest earned" would be very low at current interest rates, and probably less than any overhead.

You might have heard about Mehran Keshe, a guy selling a free energy device, claiming that it outputs more power than the input. After lots of long delays, he has finally shipped the first units to customers. But the instructions say it doesn't work immediately, you have to "condition" it by connecting ever increasing loads to it over the course of several weeks/months, etc. If anyone complains, he can always say that the user didn't condition the device properly. Scammers are creative!

 

[mm1145]

That does not sounds like a viable business model, as the "interest earned" would be very low at current interest rates, and probably less than any overhead.

it also sounds like provable fruad.

the times I have seen it sugested it is in the millions of pounds range

but if they go for the "make a big splash and the return peoples money calamining techincle difficulties" maybe people could get them for holding there £1000 for a month and denieing them the intrest on it...

 

[mm1145]

You might have heard about Mehran Keshe, a guy selling a free energy device, claiming that it outputs more power than the input. After lots of long delays, he has finally shipped the first units to customers. But the instructions say it doesn't work immediately, you have to "condition" it by connecting ever increasing loads to it over the course of several weeks/months, etc. If anyone complains, he can always say that the user didn't condition the device properly. Scammers are creative!

this is the first we have heard about them needing conditioned intresting....

but they have had them for weeks why could they not have conditioned them at there factory? oh yer....

 

[mm1145]

and they are going to ship them "potted" (with the internal components encased in resin), so you won't be able to take them apart without "damaging" the magic bits.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0650576598977.386005.644973976&type=3&theater

what was he doing to get it all over the USB cable?

this is intresting because the first post said they here happy for pepole to pull them apart. this is starting starting to unvravle now

 

[txt29]

What's really unclear here is what the end game is. It does not seem like he can really get out of this without going to jail. So he's either got to keep going, and/or stage some huge act of sabotage

It is still the same plan as they had a decade ago - you will be able to test their products soon (on the Moletrap forum the syntax is s∞n). And it will stay so indefinitely. Apparently, investors do not mind that Steorn fails again and again, and they continue sending their money to Steorn anyway (the €23M of money invested into Steorn prove it sufficiently). I have to repeat what I am telling here since the beginning - it is completely apparent that they go after the investor money, not after the money from the Orbo sales. Sales are absolutely uninteresting to them in comparison with the investments, and not at all worth of the risk.

 

[Pete Tar]

this is the first we have heard about them needing conditioned intresting....

but they have had them for weeks why could they not have conditioned them at there factory? oh yer....

Different scam.

 

[mm1145]

Different scam.

sorry too many to keep track of

 

[Galan]

- CEO Shaun McCarthy demonstrated the basic construction of an Orbo power cell. The two output wires are each connected to a sheet of conductive metal. One of the sheets of metal is covered by a layer of a highly resistant specialized material. When the two sheets are pressed together, a current is generated. (Note that, in accordance with the shareholder video that was leaked several weeks ago, the two conductive metal layers would be made of dissimilar metals, and the specialized material that covers one of the metal layers would be an electret.)

The two metal sheets that make up a power cell, not yet connected.

Based on this photo and the statement they have made a simple battery that works as a result of galvanic corrosion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

It would generate a very small charge for a while. It's not free energy. Just the electrical potential difference between two dissimilar pieces of metal.

I am curious to know whats inside.

 

[Galan]

A hand-made demonstration Orbo power cell, with measurement of its output.

- Shaun connected the output of the cell to an oscilloscope, which showed voltage as soon as the sheets came into contact with one another.

Oscilloscopes are usually used to measure repeating electrical waveforms. Things that change over time. The scope can also be setup to capture a one time trace. From what I can make out of the display, the above statement is consistent.

- The cell is "piezoelectric to some extent", so the demonstration takes a while to stabilize after being connected, and it's also "quite good at picking up ambient energy". Nonetheless, Shaun did note in the first webinar that Orbo is not an energy harvesting device, and that it has been shown to generate electricity when isolated from external energy sources such as EMF and vibrations.

The definition of piezoelectric

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity

Piezoelectricity/piˌeɪzoʊˌilɛkˈtrɪsɪti/ is the electric charge that accumulates in certain solid materials (such as crystals, certain ceramics, and biological matter such as bone, DNA and various proteins)[1] in response to applied mechanical stress. The word piezoelectricitymeans electricity resulting from pressure. It is derived from the Greekpiezo (πιέζω) orpiezein (πιέζειν), which means to squeeze or press, and electric or electron (ήλεκτρον), which means amber, an ancient source of electric charge.[2] Piezoelectricity was discovered in 1880 by French physicists Jacques and Pierre Curie.[3]

Think crystal radio. No not new age crystal. Got this wrong. The simplest example. A different sets of materials have piezoelectric properties.

- The demonstration cell produces a voltage of 0.4 to 0.5 volts, which is a function of surface area. When the circuit is shorted, this voltage drops down to 0. When de-shorted, the voltage bounces back. Everything is dry, there is no electrochemical potential being degraded, so no matter how long the cell is shorted out, it will always bounce back to the inherent voltage of the cell.

The first sentence looks consistent with the picture. Without a clear picture it hard to tell how the scope was set up. The sentence in bold is false. Dry has nothing to do with the electrochemical potential.

Still no free energy and at the cost of this unit that I have seen in the various posts, it makes for one very expensive battery.

Edit to correct my mistake.

 

[Galan]

and they are going to ship them "potted" (with the internal components encased in resin), so you won't be able to take them apart without "damaging" the magic bits.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0650576598977.386005.644973976&type=3&theater

@Mick West Any idea of the context for this picture? Melted cable from the looks of it.

Ok found it http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/

Edit to answer my own question.

 

[mm1145]

@Mick West Any idea of the context for this picture? Melted cable from the looks of it.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0650576598977.386005.644973976&type=3&theater

Shaun McCarthy's facebook

from the page

Had to look that one up: "In electronics, potting is a process of filling a complete electronic assembly with a solid or gelatinous compound for resistance to shock and vibration, and for exclusion of moisture and corrosive agents. Thermo-setting plastics or silicone rubber gels are often used." - Wikipedia

it looks to me like the black stuff is the liquide plastic or what ever they are using to fill the case



*edit I found the sauce

 

[txt29]

Piezoelectricity/piˌeɪzoʊˌilɛkˈtrɪsɪti/ ...
Think crystal radio.

Not that it is important, but just for the reference, the crystal in a crystal radio is not piezoelectric (edit: better told it is not the role it plays there). It is a diode (semiconductor). Although you can use, of course, piezoelectric crystal headphones with a crystal radio, there is no such obligation.

Otherwise, you can completely ignore what Steorn tells or demonstrates. It never gave any sense, and it will never give.

 

[Galan]

Ah, ok, so this is what will happen if you open the case. A big mess. Slick. they cover all the bases.
Thanks @mm1145

 

[Galan]

Thanks @txt29 I should have checked that statement. Not sure where I dug up that mistake.

 

[mm1145]

so it seames the first devices have actuley been delivered

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/02/first-ocube-delivery-confirmed/

it seames the first one has gone to somebody attached to this site

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/08/orbo-has-touched-down-in-the-usa/

but the story gets stranger

However as is often the case with Steorn there's something of a twist in this story — which could actually turn out to be good news. I got an email from Steorn today informing me that my Ocube had inadvertently been shipped without the Li-ion battery in it. Someone had been doing some testing on my Ocube without the battery in it, and it had been placed in the wrong spot where it was picked up for shipping.

Steorn says they will ship me another complete unit right away for no extra cost and let me keep the first one for testing. So it is going to turn out that I will have two units — one with a battery and one without. I actually think this is great news, as we will be able to see how the Orbo pack works without the buffer battery — and also see how an ocube operates in regular operation.

this is very odd to me espicley as it is the first one we have seen shipped.

I await with bated breath some details once they starte taking them apart and seeing what is actuley inside them. I know a lot of very skeptikle orgnisations have ordered them (did anyboddy here? )so hopefully it will not be long till we know more

on a side note I fine it intresting the first confirmed ship whent to this person. www.e-catworld.com seames to be about reporting the "energy catalyzer" device and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. these seam to my reading to be almost as dubious a claimes as Steorns.

 

[NoParty]

so it seames the first devices have actuley been delivered

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/02/first-ocube-delivery-confirmed/

it seames the first one has gone to somebody attached to this site

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/08/orbo-has-touched-down-in-the-usa/

but the story gets stranger

However as is often the case with Steorn there's something of a twist in this story — which could actually turn out to be good news. I got an email from Steorn today informing me that my Ocube had inadvertently been shipped without the Li-ion battery in it. Someone had been doing some testing on my Ocube without the battery in it, and it had been placed in the wrong spot where it was picked up for shipping.

Steorn says they will ship me another complete unit right away for no extra cost and let me keep the first one for testing. So it is going to turn out that I will have two units — one with a battery and one without. I actually think this is great news, as we will be able to see how the Orbo pack works without the buffer battery — and also see how an ocube operates in regular operation.

this is very odd to me espicley as it is the first one we have seen shipped.

I await with bated breath some details once they starte taking them apart and seeing what is actuley inside them. I know a lot of very skeptikle orgnisations have ordered them (did anyboddy here? )so hopefully it will not be long till we know more

on a side note I fine it intresting the first confirmed ship whent to this person. www.e-catworld.com seames to be about reporting the "energy catalyzer" device and Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. these seam to my reading to be almost as dubious a claimes as Steorns.

Color me skeptical.

Your big day finally arrives...
and you can't be bothered to even take a glance at the critical first units the public will see, of your groundbreaking product?!?

That's either a lie...or a terribly sad commentary on lack of attention to detail at Steorn...

 

[vooke]

Next excuse is manufacturing defects and exciting the investors to pump in a few more bucks to fine tune the invention

 

[Miss VocalCord]

It seems as good as dead for now; it sounds very much like an empty battery to me:

In regards to Mats' question below -- does the LED come back on? The answer is yes, but only for short periods of time now. Not like when I first started using the cube. If I put in the LED it will light for 10 - 20 seconds and then shut off. I have to wait a few minutes before it will charge up again.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/02/09/ecw-orbo-o-cube-testing-week-1-feb-9/

I guess the times it will light up the LED will become shorter and shorter.
So now he has to wait for the other Orbo... (wondering what happened to the pile of other Orbo's which were ready to ship)

 

[NoParty]

"Free Energy Day" postponed to Wednesday...no worries.




I'm sticking to my prediction back in Post #6: A few units will be shipped..."anomalies"
(like forgetting to put in a battery!!) will be claimed...product will do almost nothing...refunds will be issued.

Net result? Steorn gets the massive amount of free publicity...maybe even lures in some new "investment" money,
and re-starts the clock...hell, it's already been spread out over a decade...many of the wishful thinkers will hang in there.

This Frank Acland guy seem to really want to believe. Of course, if a normal product was delivered today by Amazon
and performed as badly as his new O-Cube did, it would already be on the UPS truck going back to Amazon...

 

[Gridlock]

It can barely run an LED for 20s, it has a 5F cap in it and it needs a Li-ion battery to work properly - interesting electronics. 5F is pretty huge.

 

[mm1145]

"Free Energy Day" postponed to Wednesday...no worries.




I'm sticking to my prediction back in Post #6: A few units will be shipped..."anomalies"
(like forgetting to put in a battery!!) will be claimed...product will do almost nothing...refunds will be issued.

Net result? Steorn gets the massive amount of free publicity...maybe even lures in some new "investment" money,
and re-starts the clock...hell, it's already been spread out over a decade...many of the wishful thinkers will hang in there.

This Frank Acland guy seem to really want to believe. Of course, if a normal product was delivered today by Amazon
and performed as badly as his new O-Cube did, it would already be on the UPS truck going back to Amazon...

well he did complain and is getting a second free one so I would not be sending the first one back eather

 

[txt29]

Latest news from Steorn. This is the answer one of their customers received after waiting for two months for the delivery of their product. It was published on e-catworld (a website promoting especially the free-energy scam of Andrea Rossi):

Hello, firstly we would like to apologize for the delay to shipping your ocube. As we are sure you can appreciate, bringing the ocube to production has been a huge task for us all and we are grateful for your support.

We have shipped two ocubes and have received reports back that the lithium ion battery in the devices is charging to somewhere in the region of 8V, which is well in excess of the safe level of 4.2V. As a result, we have had to halt any further shipments while we address this. We are currently testing a new configuration with a battery charge controller; these tests are expected to take another several days. Once we are satisfied that the units are operating as they should we will provide another update concerning shipping etc.

We appreciate your patience and understanding while we work to resolve this issue.

Best regards

The Orbo Team

This further confirms that Steorn has absolutely no intent to ever ship any functional product, and never had. The new and new delays support their investment harvesting, which appears and always appeared to be their only interest.

 

[Gridlock]

They're shipping uncontrolled Li-ion batteries with an internal charging source (cough), presumably internationally? And they only noticed a 200% over-voltage from customer units?

Good luck with that.

 

[NoParty]

Would I send a lot of money off to a company that has a decade-long history
of big promises that are never delivered upon?
And who ask 1,200 euros for a phone charger...but have a Facebook page in lieu of a real website? Not me.

Lots of guys on this site have a deeper science background than me...but I have a lot of experience with scams.

You're right mm1145, by taking money, now, Steorn is making a bold (some would say "surprising") move...
so it's time to grab the popcorn and watch. I'm very skeptical that their product can do as they claim...over time.
If I had to wager, I'd guess that they send out a few units, reap a ton of publicity,
and then refund the purchasers with some excuse like:
"Oh, the first batch had a bad turboencabulator in it, but we're working on it...send more development money!"

Like Trailblazer, these people (link below) want to get their hands on one...and have begun the process:
https://mesenaatti.me/en/steornin-ikiliikkujatekniikan-tutkimusprojekti/

I think Michael Ferrier did a nice summary Tuesday, of the current situation, here:
http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html

Ferrier follows up today, after the Steorn silliness of last 48 hours:
"It's difficult not to see this as just their latest creative delay tactic, designed to hold off any real testing of their claims
for another few weeks, or months, or years, after putting on a show designed to bilk more money from their investors."
http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2016/02/new-delay-for-ocube-shipments/

Yup. The proof of concept is proving to be just as nonexistent as predicted.

 

[mm1145]

intresting question is where did those 2 they shipped to customers go and are they including the one that when to e-catworld? (witch actuality had no battery in it)

and if it is this unreliable why have thouse Phones they are are touting as having been given to satisfied people working so well and not over charging?

looks like we are going to have to wait for our free energy after all

 

[mm1145]

They're shipping uncontrolled Li-ion batteries with an internal charging source (cough), presumably internationally? And they only noticed a 200% over-voltage from customer units?

Good luck with that.

they would have fun leagley speeking shipping a Li-ion battery with a internal charging source in the UK post I can think of numinous way that would go pare shaped