CAJeffO's chemtrail debate challenge

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
are invited to publicly debate me on the issue of chemtrails being something that is real and truly a problem to any society sprayed upon.
First a look at the proof = http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=2109
Then see my rules for debate = http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=1920
I'm all for debate, however I think it would be better to go over your evidence a bit first. There are several things there that you have entirely wrong, but would be difficult to cover them all in a short debate. Perhaps you would agree first to an in depth look at something of yours that you think is right, and I think is wrong. Either the Arizona air test results, or the Florida contrails that "don't line up with flight paths" - or some other item if you like. We can start a thread here and I'll guaranteed no censorship.

Otherwise it will end up being a debate of what conclusion to draw from false evidence, when the real problem is with the evidence. So lets try to narrow down what the actual basis for disagreement is.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
are invited to publicly debate me on the issue of chemtrails being something that is real and truly a problem to any society sprayed upon.
First a look at the proof = http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=2109
Then see my rules for debate = http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=1920
I'd be willing to debate you Jeff, but I don't live in California, or like the restrictive rules you list on your site. If you would be willing to negotiate another set of rules, please respond back here and let's discuss how it can be done.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
Jeff,
At your site, you mention a 2010 incident where 40,000 acres of wheat in Umatilla County, OR were found mysteriously yellowed.

You cited an article by the Capital Press, an agriculture magazine.

Turns out that spring wheat planters had herbicide sprayed over their fields but the applicator was grossly negligent and let the herbicide drift over adjacent winter wheat crops.
Here is the article which answers the mystery. You can call them chemtrails if you like, but in this case it was a cropdusting operation, likely now bankrupt after being fined $90,000:

By the way, the article I found this in is the same magazine you found your "mystery" report.
The problem I see is that you didn't follow up on the story. Go figure.

http://www.capitalpress.com/oregon/mw-ODA-investigation-announcement-072911
 

PCWilliams

Active Member
I'd be willing to debate you Jeff, but I don't live in California, or like the restrictive rules you list on your site. If you would be willing to negotiate another set of rules, please respond back here and let's discuss how it can be done.
I live on the east coast, but i'd be more than happy to fly to the west coast and pay an admission fee to see this debate.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
I live on the east coast, but i'd be more than happy to fly to the west coast and pay an admission fee to see this debate.
Maybe Jeff will respond for a written debate. I am quite serious about meeting his challenge, if he is serious about actually having such a debate. I've looked over his "proof" and and can see major flaws which deserve correction.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe Jeff will respond for a written debate. I am quite serious about meeting his challenge, if he is serious about actually having such a debate. I've looked over his "proof" and and can see major flaws which deserve correction.
I don't really think that a time-limited debate is the place to do that though. There's so much on his list that is just vastly wrong that you'd end up wasting time trying to cover it all. And we know that the presence of a few errors does not generally change the conclusion of a true believer.

Not that it wouldn't be interesting though. I'd be happy to debate, but I'm not going to pay $500 to do so.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
are invited to publicly debate me on the issue of chemtrails being something that is real and truly a problem to any society sprayed upon.
First a look at the proof = http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=2109
Then see my rules for debate = http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=1920
I get an "exploit blackhat" blocked warning from my AVG virus protection if I go to that first link.

EDIT: I get the same threat blocked message when accessing either of those links.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member
I think the phenomenon of conspiracy sites having computer threats on them is worthy of investigation. I know some threat blockers are a bit indiscriminate in their blocking, and relatively obscure sites will be blocked just because they aren't well-known enough, but there does seem to be a deliberate ploy to use people's interest in fringe topics to exploit their computers. I wonder who's behind it?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member
I did pick up a virus from one of the anti BP sites. I think that the folks running those sites don't practice safe surfing and they pick up things that then infect their sites.
 

CAJeffO

New Member
Hama Neggs ... try this link. This problem is inconsistent. It has appeared on computers at home and on laptops I own. While at the same time friends and pen pals can enter my the same time. AND, I have gone to other computers at Fedex, Libraries and other locations only to find most computers can enter my site. It's as if on some computers "cajeffo" 7 syllables are a virus. HERE'S THE CURE:
... https://web.archive.org/web/20130721125734/http://constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=2109
It's an archived look at my original page: constitutionalvoices.org/bloggers/freedomblogger2/?page_id=2109

NICK WEST .... Don't be so foolish as to misquote me. I pay people to debate me. And I hear lots of excuses for people to avoid doing so. You don't have to pay. I pay you. Apparently you didn't read.

PCWillams ... if any one wishes to debate me you'll be notified.
I pay people to debate me. And I hear lots of excuses for people to avoid doing so.

JAY REYNOLDS ... In my debate rules there is considerable enough time for both sides to make a case worthy of more investigation. Question is: How long will an audience stay? ... I'll stay all day if you are willing. I have a rare level of tenacity. Most people can't keep up with me in the long haul. 24 and 36 hour shifts of working is something I have grown accustomed to.
Jay, you might be able to cast doubt on one or two facts out of the HUNDREDS I present by skipping over MANY issues to pick apart the weakest link you can find. LOL
- If you had the tenacity to spend 145 minutes watching the first few videos here.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL84A5337AD9E57442
- - - imagine if most Americans knew these facts.
Think they would interested in seeing more? How about these 3?
.... I'll bet they would want to keep going.

... Ya know Jay ... if I'm wrong it's no big deal. But if I'm right and you're hiding something. Karma is a bitch.

Oh and Hama Neggs:
GOOGLING your name it seems you are so busy trying to spread dis-info it's hilarious. RSky08 says: August 9, 2013 at 12:04 AM Hama Neggs is a disinfo troll. Her name used to be Hammaann. We made fun of her by calling her Hammaanneggs “ham n eggs”…apparently she liked the name!!! HAHAHA ...
http://reallystrangethings.com/brig...-sinkholes-hurricane-sandy-brooklyn-new-york/
... Looks like you work hard at trying to prove chemtrails/geo-engineering is nothing at all hmmmmm?
LOOK AT WHAT YOU SAY ... I copied it for archiving.
https://plus.google.com/107337446176752316286/posts
. . . . . . . . . . . It gets more bizarre as you go beyond pages 1, 2, 3, etc.
I copied the first 10 pages .... your comments are really weird and strange.
 
Last edited:

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
GOOGLING your name it seems you are so busy trying to spread dis-info it's hilarious. RSky08 says: August 9, 2013 at 12:04 AM Hama Neggs is a disinfo troll. Her name used to be Hammaann. We made fun of her by calling her Hammaanneggs “ham n eggs”…apparently she liked the name!!! HAHAHA ...
Well, first, that vid is from a wacky "Nibiru" believer. I suppose you believe that nonsense too?

Second- I'm sure you can't dredge up that "RSky08" person actually talking about the "Hammaann" person and coining my user name, because that is certainly NOT the origin of my user name. Typical jumping to false conclusions based on internet heresay. Stock-in-trade for you conspiracy theorists. You are happy to believe anything you read on the internet, said by anyone, which suits your confirmation bias. Then you call it "fact" and run with it. Typical.

http://reallystrangethings.com/brig...-sinkholes-hurricane-sandy-brooklyn-new-york/
... Looks like you work hard at trying to prove chemtrails/geo-engineering is nothing at all hmmmmm?
I do- and proud of it. "Chemtrails" is an internet hoax. That's the same vid maker. She is a pure loon who takes vids of clouds while highway driving in heavy traffic with her child in the car. She should get a visit from CPS.


LOOK AT WHAT YOU SAY ... I copied it for archiving.
https://plus.google.com/107337446176752316286/posts
. . . . . . . . . . . It gets more bizarre as you go beyond pages 1, 2, 3, etc.
I copied the first 10 pages .... your comments are really weird and strange.
I'm sure you find it "weird and strange" when someone points out the fallacies in your beliefs.

PS: I wouldn't try that new link of yours on a bet!
 
Last edited:

CAJeffO

New Member
Folks, Hama Neggs is trying to put words into my mouth again. I don't talk about Nibiru since there is no solid proof yet. I just wanted Hama Neggs to debate me. ... In my debate rules there is considerable enough time for both sides to make a case worthy of more investigation. Question is: How long will an audience stay? ... I'll stay all day if you are willing. I have a rare level of tenacity. Most people can't keep up with me in the long haul. 24 and 36 hour shifts of working is something I have grown accustomed to.
Hama Neggs, you might be able to cast doubt on one or two facts out of the HUNDREDS I present by skipping over MANY issues to pick apart weakest link. LOL
- If you had the tenacity to spend 145 minutes watching the first few videos here.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL84A5337AD9E57442
- - - and imagine if most Americans knew these facts.
.... I'll bet they would want to keep going.

... Ya know Hama ... if I'm wrong it's no big deal. But if I'm right and you're hiding something & karma is a bitch.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
you might be able to cast doubt on one or two facts out of the HUNDREDS I present...
Shotgun approach.... perpetual whackamole game.

"if I'm wrong it's no big deal."

Convenient that you are unwilling to accept responsibility for perpetuating a hoax. By the way, it is Jay who expressed interest in debating you. Try to read the thread.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
@CAJeffO, this forum is about checking to see if claims of evidence are right or wrong. So if you want to post here, you have to expect your individual claims of evidence will be checked.

It's not about how long a list you can make. It's about the quality of the individual claims of evidence. Please see:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/

If you simply want to post long lists or long videos, then there are plenty of other sites for that.
 

CAJeffO

New Member
Nick West "administrator" Staff member has sent this to me.

"Your message (CAJeffO's chemtrail debate challenge) Does not meet Metabunk's posting guidelines. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site. Please review the posting guidelines." ... I apologize to any one for using the word "hell" if it offended any one.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Don't you think that determining if your claims of evidence are true or not is a worthwhile thing?

This isn't high school debate club. It's about what's actually happening.

If you'd like to discuss any of your claims of evidence, then feel free to start a thread.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member
Well then why waste my time? not accomplishing anything
You posted a debate challenge here and then apparently didn't bother to check the thread for responses for a YEAR- now you complain about wasted time? Really? Someone responded, willing to debate you, right on this page, but you ignore it in favor of taunting others about debating? Really?
 

solrey

Senior Member
Anybody who thinks the youtuber "revmichellehopkins" is a credible source is probably so far down the rabbit hole that you might as well just beat your head against the wall and be done with it.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member
you might be able to cast doubt on one or two facts out of the HUNDREDS I present...
CAJeffO, it seems as though you are gearing up for a rhetorical technique that has become known as a "Gish Gallop" (after Duane Gish, a creationist who used it). It involves running quickly through a long list of points, and implying that if your opponent doesn't address them all then you have "won." If one is debunked, you just point to another, and so on. This is not a logical or reasonable approach.

If you can't defend any single, specific example of what you consider to be evidence, then it makes no difference how many of them you bring up. Please, bring up one point - any one, but just one - for discussion. But you might want to do a search first, because it's probably been discussed here repeatedly.
 

JFDee

Senior Member
Neither of you will publicly debate me.
I would debate you right here if you can clearly state what your claim is - note: one claim at a time.

Then add the evidence for the claim - please be so kind and phrase it yourself first before posting links.
 
Last edited:

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
I'd be willing to debate you Jeff, but I don't live in California, or like the restrictive rules you list on your site. If you would be willing to negotiate another set of rules, please respond back here and let's discuss how it can be done.
Check back in a few days, Jeff. I'm on the road but have a counter-offer for you. It looks like not many people taking you up on that offer, so if you are serious, be sure to check back.
 

justanairlinepilot

Active Member
Dear NICK WEST & HAMMA EGGS,

Neither of you will publicly debate me. What a shame.

AND, so far you refuse to spend 145 minutes watching the first few videos here.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL84A5337AD9E57442
. . . you refuse to view video proof. How sad.

I'd publicly debate you, but you're such a waste of time I'd seriously have to question whether I want to give up time with my kids on my days off.
My credentials? US airline pilot (16 years), meteorology degree, experience in weather modification...I've been flying since I was 15 (27 years).

I'm curious to see your proof of chemtrails, especially when I'm one of the 60,000 airline pilots flying around making those "trails".


What would you make of this video?


Heavy chemtrail spraying?

I watched your video, the first aircraft is an Airbus A330 dumping fuel. Notice the speed brakes coming out indicating a rapid descent? The next few aircraft are also dumping fuel. At 2:50 you are looking at aerodynamic condensation (wingtip vortices). Wiki it.
At 3:04, more fuel dumping from an A330.
At 3:20, Evergreen Air conduction fire suppression tests.
At 3:32, looks like another Airbus dumping fuel probably an A320ish. Flaps are out. Do you realize most commercial aircraft certified under FAR par 25 are not certified to extend flaps above 14,000 feet? I'm sure you didn't.
At 4:00ish, looks like a bunch of contrails viewed from a Boeing 757-200 wing.

Like I said, such a waste of time. I could go on and on but basically all of these aircraft are dumping fuel or are producing wingtip vortices.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member
Jeff, as another one of the 60000, how about giving us your best three killer chemtrail proofs to start with? If we can't give you a plausible explanation, even for one of them, then you will have something to crow about.

It would also render a debate moot, as we would have no choice but to down our debunking tools and walk, blinking and staggering, into the dawn of a new era of enlightenment.

Looking forward to finally being awakened here....

(Just don't make it a Rev Michelle Hopkins video....)

P.S 34 years flying, 17000+ hours including 15000 heavy jet, plus 2200 military hours.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
JAY REYNOLDS ... In my debate rules there is considerable enough time for both sides to make a case worthy of more investigation. Question is: How long will an audience stay? ... I'll stay all day if you are willing. I have a rare level of tenacity. Most people can't keep up with me in the long haul. 24 and 36 hour shifts of working is something I have grown accustomed to.
Jay, you might be able to cast doubt on one or two facts out of the HUNDREDS I present by skipping over MANY issues to pick apart the weakest link you can find. LOL.
Jeff, we have something in common. In my work as Chief Engineer on ships I regularly drive 12 hours to work, spend another few hours on a van then another few on a small boat getting offshore, then work a 12 hour shift on the boat. I do this for a couple of weeks 12-14 hours/day 7 days a week. So, we are both familiar with the "long haul". You probably won't head out to Arkansas to debate me, and few would want to watch a 24 hour debate. You haven't had any takers for your proposal, but did return after a year to work out another format, so.

Here is my proposal:
1. A written debate of 24 hours duration.
2. The debate will be hosted here at Metabunk on a locked thread with only you and I posting.
3. Each of us will post hourly at staggered intervals of 1/2 hour, for example you post on the hour, I post on the 1/2 hour.
4. Posts are limited to 500 words.
5. If video evidence is used, it should be by transcript including time of the comment in minutes & seconds, with each word counting into the total of 500 words.
6. Images used will each count as ten words out of the total allowable 500 words/post.
7. After posting, no editing is allowed.

Will you agree, or would you like to modify something?
 
Last edited:

TEEJ

Senior Member
- - - imagine if most Americans knew these facts.
Think they would interested in seeing more? How about these 3?
The Rev Michelle Hopkins? Are you serious? This woman is seriously deluded and her so-called analysis is simply staggering. Here she is completely clueless on antennas calling everything she stumbles upon a 'TTA' (Tesla Tech Array).

Go to 10:03 in the video. She point out a 'Fence type array' on Ascension Island. This is for the "Space Fence" she claims triumphantly! She zooms into it at 10:14. She keep repeating it "Fence type array".


What she claims is a 'Fence Array' is actually water pipelines! These over-ground water pipes are a feature of the island and are mounted on concrete blocks. I should know as I have driven along that road countless times. Her mistake playing as an imagery analyst was not following the 'Fence Array' as it continued eastwards to English Bay and south westerly to Two Boats.

The following map link is centered on the pipeline right angle near the road junction. The antenna farm are where the water pipelines go through is part of the US High Frequency Global Communication System. The woman is clueless.

http://goo.gl/maps/JlDae

Tourist image where you can see the over-ground pipelines.



Note following pipeline at Cat Hill on Ascension Island.



Map centred on right angle of pipleline at Cat Hill, Ascension Island.

http://goo.gl/maps/Ua5Zm

Note the she claims that the Golf Balls are also 'TTAs'. These are simply down range radar systems.

Scroll down to 1-49 Figure 1-28 to see images of the Downrange Radar Systems

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/facility/99mar_ccas_1.pdf

If you are going to debate then remember not to use any 'analysis' videos from the Reverend Michelle Collins :)
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member
As a result of reading this thread I just saw a YouTube vid from "rev" Michelle Hopkins, and am now dumber for it. [...]. All of what she says is presented as if she has intimate knowledge of something other than regurgitated YouTube CT videos. And the comments she gets... Wow.

I would say please Jeff use her videos as evidence, it only makes it easier..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
I think that Revmichellehopkins knowingly creates bunk. She has been connected to the known you-tube hoaxer Justin Tribble. This is all about monetizing youtube channels and getting high page views to make money. They are fear-pimps selling fear-porn. It gives the viewers a rush and fills a need to believe that they have special knowledge unknown to ordinary humans. They come back for more and become absolutely addicted to it.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Yessir. That FB post is full of misinformation.

Given enough time, they can be addressed one-by-one. However, many of them already have threads dedicated, and also the MetaBunk "posting guidelines" politely request that any topic or item that is not associated with another have its own thread.

This will take some time, but rest assured, these can all be replied to.

BTW, in case you do not know me....I have 40+ years total as a pilot, with about 20,000 hours total time. I ended my career after 22 years at a major airline based in the USA (Continental....it has now merged with United Airlines).

"Chem"trails are a myth, and an Urban Legend.
 
Top