Are the conspiracy promoters radicalizing people?

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
I read that article the other day @Critical Thinker, and this guy clearly follows one specific conspiracy thinker stereotype. A mixture of social misfit, bad self-esteem and grim perception of the future. As I understand from the article, the guy is a white supremacist, but the big question is always which of all of these comes first. As pointed out in the article:

It is certainly possible for an individual to learn and accept conspiracy theories as truth, loose hope for the future, and alienate his or herself from society, friends and family. But I believe the process almost always originates with low self-esteem, and the ego kick of "knowing the truth" and become "special" is appeals to these individuals. But most of these believers will feel frustrated when "no one gets it". They'll struggle to convince others. When they fail, they feel rejected and will subsequently isolate themselves.

The isolation becomes a problem, because it limits the individual's exposure to deviating ideas, contributing to further isolation. It becomes like a sect.

The problem then comes from the fact that the perceived problem doesn't actually exist. Delusions don't have solutions. So the individual will feel frustrated when there no solution is in sight. This produces stress, which together with a lost hope might cause a mental breakdown in the end. This brings suicidal thoughts, and irrational anger.

But I think it takes a life-long feeling of worthlessness and failure to push someone to kill completely innocent people, especially children. I think that kind of dark fantasies are created as a way for such individuals to make a name for themselves in the end. In their world conventional suicide would be the the ultimate proof of failure, so this kind of mad killing spree is one last desperate effort to become remembered. And to get revenge on society.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
It is certainly possible for an individual to learn and accept conspiracy theories as truth, loose hope for the future, and alienate his or herself from society, friends and family. But I believe the process almost always originates with low self-esteem, and the ego kick of "knowing the truth" and become "special" is appeals to these individuals. But most of these believers will feel frustrated when "no one gets it". They'll struggle to convince others. When they fail, they feel rejected and will subsequently isolate themselves.

The isolation becomes a problem, because it limits the individual's exposure to deviating ideas, contributing to further isolation. It becomes like a sect.

The problem then comes from the fact that the perceived problem doesn't actually exist. Delusions don't have solutions. So the individual will feel frustrated when there no solution is in sight. This produces stress, which together with a lost hope might cause a mental breakdown in the end. This brings suicidal thoughts, and irrational anger.

But I think it takes a life-long feeling of worthlessness and failure to push someone to kill completely innocent people, especially children. I think that kind of dark fantasies are created as a way for such individuals to make a name for themselves in the end. In their world conventional suicide would be the the ultimate proof of failure, so this kind of mad killing spree is one last desperate effort to become remembered. And to get revenge on society.
I think that a lot of this is, sadly, on target.

I do question, however, the part about "...it takes a life-long feeling of worthlessness and failure to push someone to kill completely innocent people..." because I think that a person can go from a decent, fairly normal life,
to a period of a couple of really rough years, where nothing seems to go their way, and things appear hopeless to them...
and in that case, the fact that their life was so much better not that long ago, makes their relatively recent decline
even starker and more dramatic...
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
http://yournewswire.com/david-camer...racy-theorists-are-just-as-dangerous-as-isis/

In his speech to the U.N General Assembly, David Cameron said that “non-violent extremism” is just as dangerous as terrorism and must be eradicated using all means at the government’s disposal.

He referenced 9/11 and 7/7 Truthers as examples of the type of extremism that must be dealt in a similar fashion to ISIS

Is Cameron officially announcing a the plan to use a full assault on dissenting views?



skip to 4.48 for the claimed statement gee the lip-sync way out it must been dubbed will say CT,er
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
more silliness from same source so i wouldn't waste to much time on this link and vid claiming it alternative media you may find it more way way out there media




thou this is example as OP claims more taken by CT may be heading to

http://yournewswire.com/gunshots-fired-at-nsa-headquarters/

U.S. Park Police are investigating a report of shots fired near the National Security Agency’s headquarters Tuesday evening.A spokesperson for the police said the NSA is investigating damage to one of its buildings that appeared to be from gunshots. Shots Fired at D.C. Ticket Writer While on the Job
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
Recently the antimedia, was once again brought to my attention and I decided to have a closer look. When I looked at their Facebook page I was aghast that this website has over a million likes, considering the overtly anti-government theme throughout and the marked lack of journalistic integrity (truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity). Today these were the headlines on their home page.


Antimedia home page.JPG


The owner and main writer for the website, Nick Bernabe, is also the social media director of March Against Monsanto, which he notably fails to mention on his anti-media website when he wrote his hit pieces against Monsanto. Whether the posts are about GMOs, Fluoride, 9/11, Geoengineering, FEMA, etc... the site seems to take pains not to sound like a full blown Conspiracy promotion website, it uses the 'just asking questions' approach, without quite crossing the line into shouting "It's a Conspiracy, be afraid!". An example of this from their 'about' page.

Although they try to lay claim to the mantle of journalism, the website appears to be about connecting the dots by cherry picking other news outlets stories and filling in the blanks to fit their agenda... not bothering to issue a retraction/correction after their target, Kevin Folta, had responded to their accusations.

I find it concerning that there are over a million people get information from a website that poses as News media, which is intent of creating doubt and fear.

1.JPG

From the Southern Poverty Law Center, almost half of terrorist incidents in the US from 2009 - 2015 were carried out by persons motivated by anti-government sentiment.

lone_wolf_chart_1.png
 
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You still think ISIS is a boogeyman and not a CIA proxy army used to Balkanize the world and start World War 3. What's it like to live in a fairy tale?

CTers can't stop being wordy even for the sake of comedy.

My whole family has always been anti-gov. but my brother certainly said bolder things after reading about CTs online. One of my favorites: "People in positions of power are always pedophiles because power attracts sick people."
 

benben

New Member
I come from a city where this happened last year

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moncton_shootings

First homicide in 4 years in this city ... anyhoo, during the manhunt, I spoke to people who knew him and this wiki describes him very well (especially the anti gov/ conspiracy theory part) He had 2 FB accounts: the first, normal. The other was nothing but 2nd amendment, gun rights and everything coming out of Infowars and PrisonPlanet, along with lots and lots of pics oh himself shooting guns (which I actually saw, not as described by another)

When this broke out, I was with the son of an RCMP officer so we knew what was going on and where, and even got ourselves inside the perimeter ... all to say I was there, in the neighborhood and talking to some of his friends and relatives even (was pretty crazy actually) so I'm not posting on hearsay

Anyways, this thread is exactly about guys like him. My "chemmie" friend that I post about sometimes, has transformed from who he was, in 18 months. At least this one's not a gun nut.
 

Auldy

Senior Member.
An example of this from their 'about' page.


But then, anti-media is in the clothing industry (15% of sale right now!)....
 

Azylus

New Member
I think this will be the right thread for this(first post here).

Last week I saw a YouTube conspiracy theorist, Dahboo7, post a video about a man who was arrested after firing a slingshot at the White House. For those who aren't familiar, Dahboo7 basically posts several videos a day reporting news and trying to tie it in to various conspiracy theories.


What concerned me about this video in particular was at the end, around 4:35, when he talks about how any one person who tries to mess with the White House is going to go to jail. He then says that "your power is in your numbers and you need to learn how use them, quickly". Which in my opinion at least, sounds like he's suggesting people group up to make coordinated attacks on the White House. This seems like it almost passes radicalizing people against the government and crosses into encouraging domestic terrorism. Am I overreacting to this?
 

Pigeonkak

Member
CTers can't stop being wordy even for the sake of comedy."

When you think too highly of your opinion, you may express it in abundance expecting it to defend itself (sans facts) inherently.

Also, there seems to be this unspoken awareness of how inadequate the evidence for so many conspiracies is and an active effort to overwhelm counter arguements with ad hominems, distracting images and highly emotive wording.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
National Post article with mother turned activist, Christianne Boudreau

The path to extremism: The story of how one young man from Calgary ended up dead in Syria

The mother of of Damian Boudreau relates:


 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
Am I overreacting to this?
I don't think so, but remember if we and the rest of the world can watch his vids, so can the worlds security forces, and if a large mob did show up at the Whitehouse with sling shots acting like he seams to want them to those same law agencies will know exactly where to go.

In the Uk we had a series of riots back in 2011, and those 'co-coordinating' the unrest via social media were tracked down, prosecuted and often received harsher sentences than the rioters themselves. Incitement is a serious matter.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
A story that was just covered in the news showing that the Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump, was citing a false conspiracy theory found on Sputnik news.

Newsweek article

Story in NYMag http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...ng-about-russia-repeats-their-propaganda.html
With the recent election and the news that 'U.S. formally accuses Russian hackers of political cyber attacks' and that both RT and Sputnik 'news' agencies (both propaganda tools of the Russian government) are often repeated as sources on many of the anti US government 'alternative news' websites that push conspiracy theories (ie... Infowars & the anti-media)

It appears that the alternative media that deal in pushing anti-government conspiracy theories, are either willing or unwitting tools of the Russian government's efforts to create distrust in the US government.

Washington Post Link



infowars and sputnik.JPG anti-media and RT.JPG the anti-media and sputnik.JPG infowars and RT.JPG
 
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Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
NBC News Link to full story

 

Greylandra

Active Member
So, in a
saw this article the other day. its long and I don't know which parts to quote. Newsweek: basically the effect of conspiracy theories.http://www.newsweek.com/2014/05/23/plots-destroy-america-251123.html?piano_d=1

Jason desperation and distrust in the establishment, I believe, is what inspires radicalism. no? So anything (ie CTs) that FEED this desperation and distrust, would be bad.
Bad for whom? The establishment, no doubt, and it's fans. Since we're talking in terms of "bad", don't "bad" actions have laws against them? Is it your suggestion that opinion and thought should fall under law? Conspiracy theorists were simply born here. It is the prerogative ,par excellence, of the individual to hold whatever thoughts and opinions he'd like. You, nor the state, or anyone else for that matter, have such a monopoly on facts to such an extent to claim any orthodoxy of opinion.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You, nor the state, or anyone else for that matter, have such a monopoly on facts to such an extent to claim any orthodoxy of opinion.

Unorthodox opinions are fine, radicalism as a political philosophy is fine. The problem is violent radicalism, and even that wouldn't be entirely bad if it were focussed on overthrowing a brutal oppressive dictatorship. It's almost (but generally not quite) understandable if it's focussed on fixing economic inequity.

No, the problem with conspiracy theories is irrational radicalism into violent extremism. I'm sure you can think of many examples. Timothy McVeigh, Bin Laden, ISIS, Aum Shinrikyo, the JDL, the rebounding forms of the KKK and the extreme right.

Rational distrust of the establishment is fine, in fact it's encouraged. It's the irrational distrust that's a problem. The automatic rejection of science and government in favor of entirely baseless alternative theories, the mindless embracing of anything that contradicts the "official", possibly leading to support for violence against the perceived "norm" for no good reason, that's a problem. And that's one reason why we debunk.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
In the current election cycle it has become increasingly obvious how Russia has been actively working to spread distrust and discontent in the United States towards the Democratic process. I previously have shown that many of the conspiracy promotion websites rely on Russian Propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik for material that regularly employ lies and distortions to promote anger, distrust and discontent. There have been numerous News stories of how the Putin regime has employed 'troll farms' to spread pro-Russia and anti-America propaganda.

NYTimes link


Atlantic Council Story Link

 
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tadaaa

Senior Member
@ critical thinker


I am not sure if you are aware of a UK (BBC) documentary film maker called Adam Curtis - recently relevant because he has just released a new documentary on BBC iPlayer called "Hypernormalisation"

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...s-donald-trump-documentary-hypernormalisation


but he has historically made some incredibly thought provoking documentaries - the one on Afghanistan and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism is called "Bitter Lake" and is fantastic


Anyone interested in him wiki is a good place to start


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis


especially the “Century of the Self” and “The Power of nightmares” and off course “Bitter Lake”


anyway he has done short documentary on Putin and the Russian manipulation of the media which segways into how utterly confused the world seems, ultimately to where you have a large section of poor voters of America voting in droves for a narcissistic billionaire, made rich through the simple act of inheritance and a sort of state welfare for the billionaire class


the central shtick is that the “state” media in Russia have a vested interest in sowing confusion about what is and isn’t the truth that way the state can exercise true control



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
NYTimes Story Link



 
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Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
Found this on the War on the Rocks website in an article analyzing Russia's operations to American Democracy: HOW RUSSIA IS TRYING TO DESTROY OUR DEMOCRACY



Regarding War on the Rocks, from the about page

Looking further into their reputation, from Media Bias/Fact Check

Capture.JPG
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
very sad story unfolded early this year in my town and the accused is now claiming the below was the cause and not his own actions... i suspect these ideas could be traced back to his computer history & tipping the usual CT sites and promoters played a hand in his mental down fall.


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/d...-before-bourke-st-deaths-20170526-gwdnru.html

Alleged Bourke Street killer Dimitrious "Jimmy" Gargasoulas has told a court the Illuminati were to blame for the fatal attack, claimed he was privy to the secrets of the Freemasons and insisted that the government was controlling his life.
 

Birkenhead

New Member
in germany there's an awkwardly growing movement called "reichsburger" (citizen of the reich), people who believe in the weird ct/claim that due to lacking or incorrect contracts (plus other paperwork) filed by the allies after the end of world war II, the german reich never really stopped to exist, while today's "bundesrepublik deutschland" is non-existing, or, at least, is an interim solution. based on this proclaimed situation, the "reichsburger" refuse any laws made by the german federal republic. most commonly they will not pay taxes, they use selfmade licence plates, rise own banners in their gardens or even found own microstates within their properties. for years, officials and the public regarded these people as harmless weirdos, but as their numbers grew significally and relations to right-wing extremists and esoteric cults became obvious, the police eventually intervened. several raids were done this year, which revealed that almost all "reichsburger" had stockpiled weapons, firearms and explosives in their homes, one fella even shot at the police, leaving one officer dead.

for me, this is a "good" example how a formerly "funny" movement (think of the conche republic at the florida keys) became a serious thread, with members of the idea quickly radicalzing and becoming terrorists. let's hope the germans don't have their own waco disaster one day.

if you guys are interested in this crazy story (and perhaps some debunking links regarding the original claim) i'd be happy to do some further research.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Very much the same as a particular strain of American sovereign citizen, who say the legitimate US government ceased to exist at some point, either when the capital moved to DC or when the government was incorporated.

The simple answer is, even if that's true, the reich ceased to exist when it's government was dissolved, and the current one is legitimate at the least because of effective occupation, there is no viable competitor to question it.

Just because somebody may have filled out some form wrong doesn't mean the reich springs back to power, because you don't actually need to file anything to start a government, and nobody exists to file with. Except the government itself, which makes the rules for filing that stuff and can rescind the requirement or allow retroactive filing or assume it was filed regardless or even just put a billion year deadline on it
 

McGurnicle

Member
in germany there's an awkwardly growing movement called "reichsburger" (citizen of the reich), people who believe in the weird ct/claim that due to lacking or incorrect contracts (plus other paperwork) filed by the allies after the end of world war II, the german reich never really stopped to exist, while today's "bundesrepublik deutschland" is non-existing, or, at least, is an interim solution.


It's weird how people try to negate fictions by reifying more convenient fictions. In my view the only truth is politics.
 

McGurnicle

Member
Are the conspiracy promoters radicalizing people against Government?

Yes. I'd say it's a problem, but then again just about everything is problematic. I wouldn't want debunkers to rule the world either. Nothing really gets it, reality is complex.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
From The New York Times: "A Hunt for Ways to Combat Online Radicalization"

The article looks at Online Radicalization, how they recruit Online and how Government and Tech companies seek to thwart them. It shows similarities to the mindset of many of those individuals that go down the 'rabbit hole' of belief in conspiracies; who have a strong distrust in the Mainstream Media, are resistant to new information, and the brief window of time in which they might be dissuaded from going full blown Conspiracy Theorist.

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

Prevention is better than a cure, and probably a lot easier. It's also hard to measure directly.

Jigsaw might want to think about people falling down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole as a path towards extremism. Once you've stopped listening to reason in general then it's easy to get sucked into something else. A lot of the 9/11 truthers for example end up with a belief that Israel (or just "the Jews") were responsible for the attacks, which naturally leads to anti-semitism, and towards some kind of white supremacy (or maybe Arab supremacy).

Even flat-earhterism, ridiculous though it is, has a large segment of anti-semitism. Eric Dubay, for example seems to think it's all a Jewish conspiracy and that Hitler was a good guy fighting against the "globe-heads".
 

Birkenhead

New Member
as a father of two who's working for medical institutions regularly, one topic really drives me mad: esoteric medicine as an (the only!) alternative to conservative medical therapies (especially for children). these people are radical per definition. and their numbers are growing due to the widespread share of awkward ideas (like ryke geerd hamer's 'germanic new medicine') on facebook and the likes. behind this lies a deep distrust in goverment's official healthcare and 'big pharma'.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
From Vice.com Chemtrails conspiracy theorists are sending death threats to climate scientists
By Hilary Beaumont Nov 22, 2017


 
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