Weather Modification in Wikileaks. Contrails vs. Chemtrails. Etc.

[Unregistered]

Here is some US diplomatic cables from 1973 onwards that are clearly talking about weather modification involving spraying from aircraft.

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1974STATE149164_b.html

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1973STATE059146_b.html

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1976STATE296420_b.html

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1973STATE058920_b.html

 

[Mick West]

Here is some US diplomatic cables from 1973 onwards that are clearly talking about weather modification involving spraying from aircraft.

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1974STATE149164_b.html

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1973STATE059146_b.html

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1976STATE296420_b.html

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1973STATE058920_b.html

Weather modification is not secret. It's been done quite openly since the 1950s. See these small ads from the 1960s
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/30...f-intent-to-perform-weather-modification-quot

 

[solrey]

Here is some US diplomatic cables from 1973 onwards that are clearly talking about weather modification involving spraying from aircraft.

All of those cables are clearly talking about cloud seeding, for which silver iodide flares are the most common method of dispersal from aircraft, which isn't really "spraying". In fact, the proposal in Florida never happened due to "adequate natural rains". The second cable talks about NOAA's position that seeding orographic clouds offers some promise in alleviating water shortages, however NOAA is less confident about the effectiveness of seeding of cumulus clouds. In the third cable it was decided to NOT approve a proposed cloud seeding operation in Jordan. The fourth cable talks about a careful policy review concerning funding for a proposed cloud seeding project in Turkey. All of those cable's original security classification was "unclassified". So what are those cables supposed to be evidence for again? The government wants to alleviate water shortages?

 

[magnus]

me too D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcZxXB3yie0&list=PLD050BDB1556D113E

 

[Mattnik]

me too D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcZxXB3yie0&list=PLD050BDB1556D113E

Hi Magnus, a welcome to Metabunk. Could you identify some key points in that video and possibly start a new thread for it? At 1hr 40mins it's rather too long to have any meaningful discussion about. Thank you.

 

[Woody]

There are 365 days in the year, out of these days what would you say is the average amount of days during a given year, estimated, when these lingering trails of an hour or longer can exist in the sky?

 

[Jazzy]

There are 365 days in the year, out of these days what would you say is the average amount of days during a given year, estimated, when these lingering trails of an hour or longer can exist in the sky?

365 days and nights.

 

[Pete]

There are 365 days in the year, out of these days what would you say is the average amount of days during a given year, estimated, when these lingering trails of an hour or longer can exist in the sky?

Woody, you must qualify your question with either; one location, any particular location, or the entire world. I believe Jazzy has answered for the entire world, as on any day, somewhere will have a contrail lasting an hour or more.

The atmosphere is different everywhere, depending on the time of year, weather systems e.t.c.

 

[Woody]

Woody, you must qualify your question with either; one location, any particular location, or the entire world. I believe Jazzy has answered for the entire world, as on any day, somewhere will have a contrail lasting an hour or more.

The atmosphere is different everywhere, depending on the time of year, weather systems e.t.c.

Lets take Kansas City in the center of the nation.

 

[Pete]

Lets take Kansas City in the center of the nation.

So the number of days (24 hour periods) it could happen would be based the total number of days above Kansas City when air at whatever the cruising altitude of aircraft fly at over Kansas city is at the correct temperature and humidity for contrails to form and persist. I reckon wind speed would need to be factored in, as the faster it is the quicker the contrail would disperse or move. You also need to account for changes in jet engine design over the last however many years you want to compare it to, as newer engines are more contrail productive. So a contrail from a newer aircraft will last longer.

But seeing as I'm not proposing chemtrails exist, or indeed that the number of days above Kansas City where contrails could persist has gone up/down due to anything other than issues (natural or not) outside of the chemtrail argument, the onus is on you to collate the information. To be blunt, its an awful lot of weather records to collate, and it ain't my job, its the believer's!

 

[Woody]

So the number of days (24 hour periods) it could happen would be based the total number of days above Kansas City when air at whatever the cruising altitude of aircraft fly at over Kansas city is at the correct temperature and humidity for contrails to form and persist. I reckon wind speed would need to be factored in, as the faster it is the quicker the contrail would disperse or move. You also need to account for changes in jet engine design over the last however many years you want to compare it to, as newer engines are more contrail productive. So a contrail from a newer aircraft will last longer.

But seeing as I'm not proposing chemtrails exist, or indeed that the number of days above Kansas City where contrails could persist has gone up/down due to anything other than issues (natural or not) outside of the chemtrail argument, the onus is on you to collate the information. To be blunt, its an awful lot of weather records to collate, and it ain't my job, its the believer's!

When I was kid I would see these long persistent trails on rare occasions. My neighbor, Bernie, was an aircraft mechanic for Northwest Airlines so his kid and I went and asked him about this. He told us back then that the weather up there was much different than down here and that these days are rare and require both a stable and calm environment for them to exist. What was once occasional is now daily, and I could agree with a change in fuel, alterations in the atmosphere, etc, but the changes would also appear across the board, meaning they would all display the same effect, bringing it back to the aircraft and not atmosphere.

 

[GregMc]

I think from a number of papers I've perused, that for any location , conditions of supersaturation with respect to ice will occur about 20% to 45% of the time. That means, not just persisting, but contrails spreading out to form overcast haze. By a rough extrapolation that's around at least 62 days in a year. The rest of the time outside that sixty days, ie, in addition to that sixty days, a single contrail may not necessarily grow larger and spread into overcast but multiple contrails may still persist for hours.
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JCLI3955.1

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD900526/abstract

In addition to those extra days, there will be warmer drier conditions when the contrails will be short lived, lasting 10 minutes or so.
On rare occasions no contrails at all may form, but as we have seen in Australia, even on one of the hottest days on record at 40C or 104F over the sub-tropical city of Brisbane, persistent contrails will form because the air at high altitudes is still more than 50 degrees below freezing.
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/12/05/3648013.htm

I suspect your "rare" occurrences of the past are equally likely to refer to the numbers of aircraft flying at high enough altitudes to form persistent contrails. ie, High altitude airliners were rarer.
There is a vastly greater number of airliners flying now-days than in the past http://contrailscience.com/30-years-of-airline-travel/

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Lets take Kansas City in the center of the nation.

Woody, it depends on the weather. It changes from year-to-year, and day to day, and by seasons.
Here is some data:

see:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/site/doc-library/172-Minnis.etal.JClim.03.pdf

http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/conference/JP1.15.duda.arams.02.pdf

This thread is for posting photos.

 

[frenat]

All of those cables are clearly talking about cloud seeding, for which silver iodide flares are the most common method of dispersal from aircraft, which isn't really "spraying". In fact, the proposal in Florida never happened due to "adequate natural rains". The second cable talks about NOAA's position that seeding orographic clouds offers some promise in alleviating water shortages, however NOAA is less confident about the effectiveness of seeding of cumulus clouds. In the third cable it was decided to NOT approve a proposed cloud seeding operation in Jordan. The fourth cable talks about a careful policy review concerning funding for a proposed cloud seeding project in Turkey. All of those cable's original security classification was "unclassified". So what are those cables supposed to be evidence for again? The government wants to alleviate water shortages?

And of course cloud seeding looks absolutely nothing like what is seen in these pictures. It is done in clouds, not to produce them far above the layer of rain producing clouds.

 

[Woody]

Weather modification is not secret. It's been done quite openly since the 1950s. See these small ads from the 1960s
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/30...f-intent-to-perform-weather-modification-quot

I find this very interesting. I have been talking about the differences between these contrails and aerosol obscuration program, often called chemtrails. In previous posts I had stated that Jordan was not dispersing these aerosols, but Iraq and Israel are according to our ground observation. This third document supports that we are identifying the differences and this backs up and supports our findings.

 

[Woody]

China and America have come to agreements on climate change, anyone offer any input as to what is in these agreements and what Kerry refereed to as "Success" in the US in combating climate change? What is in these deals?

 

[Mick West]

I find this very interesting. I have been talking about the differences between these contrails and aerosol obscuration program, often called chemtrails. In previous posts I had stated that Jordan was not dispersing these aerosols, but Iraq and Israel are according to our ground observation. This third document supports that we are identifying the differences and this backs up and supports our findings.

I have no idea what you mean by any of this. What third document? Whose findings? What findings? Which contrails? What difference?

 

[Mick West]

Woody, start a new thread if you want a new conversation.

 

[Woody]

I have no idea what you mean by any of this. What third document? Whose findings? What findings? Which contrails? What difference?

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cabl...E296420_b.html commenting on your comment on anothers comment to this link found in this thread

 

[Cairenn]

It is discussing cloud seeding.

 

[solrey]

I find this very interesting. I have been talking about the differences between these contrails and aerosol obscuration program, often called chemtrails. In previous posts I had stated that Jordan was not dispersing these aerosols, but Iraq and Israel are according to our ground observation. This third document supports that we are identifying the differences and this backs up and supports our findings.

Really? That third diplomatic cable from 1976 discussed a single proposal from the University of North Dakota for a cloud seeding project as assistance to Jordan. However, the company Weather Modification Incorporated lists the Heshamite Kingdom of Jordan as one of their clients for two projects from 1986-1988, and 1988-1989.

Furthermore, according to the United Nations Environment Programme Division of Technology, Industry and Economics, cloud seeding experiments have been conducted in Jordan during a period coinciding with the contracts with Weather Modification, Inc.

Cloud-seeding experiments were carried out in the Asir Mountains of Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Jordan and Syria. Field studies were conducted in the Sultanate of Oman. Cloud-seeding experiments in Syria continued between 1991-1997.
[..]
Due to increasing water shortages in the West Asia region, this technology is nevertheless considered promising under suitable conditions for facilitating increased rainfall, resulting in improved water resources and economic benefits. The most promising regions for application of this technology can be determined by conducting the necessary cloud survey and assessment work, and interest in this technology currently exists in Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Oman.

http://www.unep.or.jp/ietc/Publications/TechPublications/TechPub-8f/B/Cloud.asp

And since you mentioned Israel...

But research now reveals that the common practice of cloud seeding with materials such as silver iodide and frozen carbon dioxide may not be as effective as it had been hoped. In the most comprehensive reassessment of the effects of cloud seeding over the past fifty years, new findings from Prof. Pinhas Alpert, Prof. Zev Levin and Dr. Noam Halfon of Tel Aviv University's Department of Geophysics and Planetary Sciences have dispelled the notion that seeding is an effective mechanism for precipitation enhancement.
[..]
During the course of his study, Prof. Alpert and his colleagues looked over fifty years' worth of data on cloud seeding, with an emphasis on the effects of seeding on rainfall amounts in a target area over the Sea of Galilee in the north of Israel. The research team used a comprehensive rainfall database and compared statistics from periods of seeding and non-seeding, as well as the amounts of precipitation in adjacent non-seeded areas.

cheers

 

[GregMc]

Jordan has been interested in cloud seeding for a long time and tries to keep track of new developments. The following video shows a delegation from Jordan gaining experience from Thailand's highly publicised "Royal Rainmaking" cloud seeding efforts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWbR0iHpdPI