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  1. Jeffrey Orling

    Jeffrey Orling Active Member

    A close intellectually honest examination of the post collapse photos... and even the videos of the collapse of the core columns which survived the initial collapse is all one needs to determine that there was no controlled demolition. The facade obviously peeled away.. the core which clearly survived collapsed from Euler buckling... unable to self support without the beams inside the core which braced the columns.. and which was ripped off in the floor collapse.

    No critical thinking shown in examining the visual evidence. This was explained to AE, Tony et al as early as Jan 2010.
     
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  2. On YT, there is an account RKOwens4 who does a lot of 911 debunking videos. On one vid, workers are actually explaining that are cutting those cols. They cut them at an angle to they can anticipate where they fall.
     
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  3. Pepijn van Erp

    Pepijn van Erp New Member

    Richard Gage apparently hasn't changed his presentation on this particular subject. He used the slide of the angle cut column during a presentation he gave on May 13th, 2018 in Utrecht, The Netherlands as you can see it on the right at around 1h21m10s in

    Source: https://youtu.be/d_z-CKypSOo?t=1h21m10s
     
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  4. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

    Has anyone notified Richard Gage of this thread and the thorough debunking of his claim? Has he reacted to such a notification in any way?
     
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  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Just adding a better AB comparison of the AP photos.
    AP01102903234-AB-Crop.

    Note these are just from the image thumbnails. The actual images are copyrighted, someone would have to pay to use them, but they would be a lot clearer.
     
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  6. Tomi

    Tomi Member

    What Gage says in the video is “Could this be thermite?“ He does not say it is evidence of thermite and so in his mind he is not a liar but just asking questions
     
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  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Metabunk 2018-07-10 16-43-32.
    He says "This is some of the leftover 45 degree cuts on the columns at the world trade center you see them again and again and again. Could that be thermite?"

    Not also the slide says "Before Iron workers on site", which is false as the photo was taken six weeks after to collapse.
     
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  8. econ41

    econ41 Active Member

    That is understood. The issue is not what he wants to think as his excuse. The questions to establish "lie" are (a) is it false; (b) does he know it is false and (c) does he intend to deceive. Yes to all three == "lie".

    Just to complicate it he is resorting to "lying by innuendo" which is the common trick of current truthers.

    He leaves it to the listeners to draw the implied meaning...giving him an escape by deniability aka "I never said xyz"

    It's not a clear cut issue of ethics but given Gage's lengthy experience he must be aware that there is proof that his claims or implied claims are false. Most - like me - would judge that he is deliberately trying to deceive or mislead his audience.

    In other on-line discussions where pedantic rigour was important I have asserted that Gage (and T Szamboti) have been "Professionally Dishonest". It needs a lower threshold of proof. Though it is stated in various ways in professional codes of conduct the test is:
    "When speaking as a professional and presenting a minor opinion which goes against the accepted view of the profession you are ethically obliged to make clear that you are in the minority". Something which AFAIK neither of those two ever does.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  10. davebeard

    davebeard New Member

    ok, but whats not clear is why they would cut on the angle like that?

    the cut is longer, more material to go through, and this doesnt make sense.
     
  11. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    To control the way it falls. Like felling a tree
     
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  12. econ41

    econ41 Active Member

    The main reason is the "wedge" action to force the top bit to slide off and past the lower part - otherwise it would hang up. (Same reason that explosive demolition needs "cutter" and "kicker" charges ) The "toppling like a tree" aspect was probably influenced more by assessment of where the weight and balance of the top portion was - recall it was a part left standing after whatever random failures of the structure.
     
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  13. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    Please my post link, its a tree felling cut used to control timing and the direction, handy when you have a tall ton of steel above you

    https://www.metabunk.org/posts/218937/

    Aye Cloudy :)
     
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  14. Jeffrey Orling

    Jeffrey Orling Active Member

    That particular column section weighed 98,000 pounds. I suspect that moving this would be a touchy matter... and letting the mass slide off and then down to the ground and then lower the other end.... Maybe.
     
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  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It was confirmed earlier that they cut them at an angle during cleanup.

     
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  16. Nada Truther

    Nada Truther Active Member

    The better question to ask is "Why WOULD they cut it straight?" What is the theory behind the angle of the cut and whether it indicates foul play or not. It seems to me that if we are pushing the theory of thermite cutting the column (Which was proven here to be not true), and the angle is evidence of this, then you are acknowledging that cutting it at an angle, with thermite, will make it fall in the manner that the conspirators want, why is it so hard to swallow that trained iron workers wouldn't know the same techniques?

    My reasoning why they would "Cut" at an angle isn't just for the direction of the fall: In my experience with cutting steel with a torch is that angled or vertical cuts sometime are easier to cut, as much or the slag falls, instead of sitting in the cut and needing to be blown out. Although I would think that the better reason would be to control the angle of the fall.