1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    People who suggest there is some kind of covert geoengineering program going on (the term "geoengineering" is often used to refer to a variant of the "chemtrails" theory), often point to global dimming (a reduction of the amount of sunlight hitting the earth's surface) as evidence of this. Here's an example:

    http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/welcome2page/10-bullet-points-regarding-geoengineering/
    The problem with the above assertion is that it's wrong, it's basically an interpretation of data that is 20 years out of date. "Global Dimming" was a real thing, from around 1950 to the late 1980s. But it has since been replaced in most places (including North America) by "Global Brightening", generally because of the reduction in pollution brought about by the clean air acts around the world.

    The most comprehensive overview of the Subject is by Wild, 2012, and his findings are confirmed by other studies. I've highlighted the important parts below.

    Martin Wild, 2012, Institute for Atmospheric and Climate Science, Zurich, Switzerland. Published in the American Meteorological Society:
    Enlightening Global Dimming and Brightening
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/BAMS-D-11-00074.1

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    One interesting thing there is "Note that “global” thereby originally referred to “global radiation,” a synonym for SSR, rather than to a globalscale dimension of the phenomenon " - meaning "global dimming" did not actually mean the entire globe is dimming, even back in the 1980s. It was just the "global radiation" (i.e. the full spectrum) at particular locations.

    Other recent studies have similar results.

    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013EGUGA..15.2579W
    2013: Wang
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012EGUGA..1413344H
    2012, Hatzianastassiou, et al., Features and causes of recent surface solar radiation dimming and brightening patterns:
    http://proceedings.aip.org/resource/2/apcpcs/1527/1/579_1?isAuthorized=no
    2013, O'Dowd, et al.
    Cleaner air: Brightening the pollution perspective?
    Update: Martin Wild gave a presentation on the topic at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) Fall Meeting in San Francisco


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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
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  2. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Dane Wigington of Geoengineeringwatch.org promotes this claim that global dimming is still influencing the US. He blames it on alleged geoengineering.
    In this January, 2013 article he says:

    The article he references is from The Guardian, December, 2003. So, at least in his case he is working with material outdated by ten years.

    Shortly after he started making that claim, he was informed by me via email that it was factually incorrect. He has chosen to ignore the information and continues to repeat the same claim for years. I hope he will eventually correct that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  3. PhishyBongwaters

    PhishyBongwaters New Member

    I watched an interesting documentary about global dimming a few years back. They did a study during the no fly period after 9/11 and showed an increase of temps that seemed to correlate with the reduced aircraft traffic. Surely it plays a part, and I believe some of the scientists in that documentary held the opinion that some of the global warming we should have experienced, but didn't, was being counteracted by global dimming. the pollution coming from the jet exhaust is going to dump some carbon up there, but the contrails are clouds and are doing exactly what you'd expect, reflecting some of that light back out. The time lapse satellite images you can see of the regular flight paths is kind of alarming when you see it, competely covering parts of the US and Canada, and extending right over to Europe.

    Of course, there's a lot more to that, what's going on with the sun at the time, the magnetosphere, all of that plays a role. But I did notice the chemtrailers pointing at global dimming, and some of those patents for releasing aluminum particulate into the upper atmosphere to help speed up global dimming. As the data in the first post suggests, we're experiencing global brightening in some areas, probably related to clean air act and other factors, while nations who are industrializing like China and India are still experiencing dimming to some extent.

    I like to smack those people who argue against climate change taking place with this fact. If we stopped polluting, we'd see an increase in temps, if we continue to pollute, we'll continue the greenhouse effect. A carbon tax isn't going to help, spraying barium or whatever else they claim isn't going to help.

    I have a hard time beliving it's a vast geo-engineering conspiracy, and I can't swallow this global depopulation agenda that Alex Jones keeps HAARPing on about
     
  4. sstorch

    sstorch New Member

    I live on eastern Long Island, NY. I often watch a beautiful clear blue sky turn into a haze of grey while watching the 'geo-engineering' planes coming from the northeast. I am a farmer and i used to commericial fish in the 1980's. I had to learn about clouds and weather as my life depended on it. Often, i see clouds that have no form or category in the meteorology that i studied and the clouds that i grew up seeing. I have found fibers floating in buckets of water and upon examination under a microscope found tiny insect legs and blood cells [human] and motile fibers. I do not know what you would want to call this, but i do not think that hits is normal. This past spring there was an article about how they have found the lone star tick on Nantucket and the east end of Long Island. That sounds like they were dropped from an airplane to me. If you folks think that geo-engineering is not real i wish that you would share what you are smoking with me! pleeeeze? sstorch
     
  5. Sausalito

    Sausalito Active Member

    I encourage you to start a new thread with a cogent explanation of your "dropped from an airplane" idea.
     
  6. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Considering the Lone Star Ticks natural range covers the entire East Coast, why would anyone be surprised to find them in various locations along the East Coast? And why would an airplane be required to deposit them on Nantucket or Long Island when any number of people and their pets could bring them back home after a vacation in the woods?

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    map-lone_star_tick.jpg

    Start a new thread if you wish, the conspiracy of ticks being dropped from planes aspect will get debunked in a heartbeat.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  7. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member


    How did you know they were human blood cells?

    I live on the East End of Long Island also, neighbor! If you're a farmer I'm sure you're familiar with the haze that comes in from the ocean and the sound in the warmer weather.

    Where are you? North Fork?
     
  8. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member



    Thanks for the map! Seeing as how many people in the north east spend a lot of time in the south, second homes or children living there, I'm not surprised at a migrating insect.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  9. sstorch

    sstorch New Member

    south fork east of southampton. i know all about the weather. i commercial fished for 12 years 70's -80's and now i work in ag. what i see is them geo-engineering and it usually drifts offshore and comes back in the rain a few days later.
     
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  10. sstorch

    sstorch New Member

    i have lived out here for 35 years. there were never lone star ticks out here. debunk away, i do not care to argue with you. believe what you like.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  11. Sausalito

    Sausalito Active Member

    I recently identified an Emerald Ash Borer (invasive species of beetle) here in Connecticut. Insects: they get around. I have photographed vultures further north than their range was previously mapped. Things change. The hills are alive! Or perhaps some sinister cadre is throwing vultures out of airplanes.
     
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  13. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    "coming from the northeast"?

    Rather than having the identity of the planes remain a mystery to you. I'd suggest the next time you see these contrails you try identifying them. You will likely find that they are ordinary passenger flights coming in from Europe, considering you are seeing them "coming from the northeast" in Long Island.
    The best for your use would be flightaware.com.

    For example, here is a view of all high altitude flights on a typical day:

    flights.
    Try identifying the flights, understand that flightaware data might be about 5-10 minutes slow, meaning the flight track shown on flightaware for a plane you see visually might be behind. In other words, look for the incoming plane to have a flight track shown on flightaware some distance behind. Also, be aware that you can sometimes see a contrail 50 or more miles away, since the plane is six miles high. Try it and get back to us.

    G. Edward Griffin had a number of volunteers try this out a year or so ago. You know him, he co-produced the movie, What In The World Are They Spraying".
    His group found that when they saw persistent contrails they called "chemtrails", they were coming from ordinary passenger jets.
     
  14. Belfrey

    Belfrey Senior Member

    Are you an acarologist who has done surveys of the tick species there? It's listed on the tick warning circular for Long Island State Park. A quick search of the literature shows that it is has been present there at least since the 1970s, and abundant since the 80s. See Ginsberg et al. (1991), "Increased population densities of Amblyomma americanum (Acari: Ixodidae) on Long Island, New York." Journal of Parasitology, 77: 493 - 495.
     
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  15. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    And still increasing their range.

    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...nd-Montauk-Moving-West-Suffolk-215614551.html

    Insects get around. I found Apple Ermine Moth caterpillars on our apple trees for the first time in the seven years that I've been at my current location, near the southern edge of their range in Oregon. I confirmed the species with the county extension service, they appreciated being alerted to that pests presence in our area.
     
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  16. justanairlinepilot

    justanairlinepilot Active Member


    There is a dedicated aircraft arrival that flies the entire distance of the south side of Long Island, however, you won't see those aircraft leaving contrails as they are too low, they are landing at JFK. If you are seeing aircraft flying over Long Island leaving contrails, they are not landing anywhere near NYC.
     
  17. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    The planes follow right up the island when coming in from Europe. Done it many times myself "I can see my HOUSE from here!"
     
  18. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    Kudos to you farming on the South Fork! We farmed on the North Fork till 2007. Why do you think it is geo engineering and not flights heading to/from Europe. I used to spot the cannery in Amagansett flying in.
     
  19. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Well something stinks in Denmark . If its condensation nuclei it must be pretty dirty fuel
     
  20. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    So, Joe, welcome back. Why would you think it has any smell at all or has anything to do with chemical warfare or even dirty fuel? When he says the small lower cloud is a "chem-cloud", do you believe this? If you are concerned about ordinary contrails being persistent, this guy is doing no good at all, what he is doing is the worst thing that could be said about it.
    Do you think planes use dirty fuel?

    Do you understand this guy might as well be blaming these ordinary contrails on satan, he is making a mockery of any concern about what is actually happening. He is being a fool. Oh, now I see he is blaming it on "anti-christ". Worse than I thought. You should try to help the guy by directing him here, instead you come here and make a silly statement about dirty fuel when what he is seeing is ice. It is September and probably already getting cold i Denmark, surely you know that contrails will be more frequent. Use your brain man, this hoax is the last thing you should be putting forth and you know it.
     
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  21. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    How you doing Jay ? :) I only watched and did not listen to what he said . Hard to understand with accent . Looked quite the same in FL as well . Pretty sad the skies look like crap . Sure were pretty heavy contrail s ? I meant to use the Shakespeare quote Looks like geongineering on a grand scale .
     
  22. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    "Looks like" is not good enough. Might not look like it to someone else. What concrete evidence do you have.
     
  23. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Its good enough for me . Iv found nothing that would convince me otherwise . Been looking for a reasonable explanation . Seems your fellow Long Islander isnt convinced either ?
    Sept 4th 2013 Vero Beach

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  24. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    What evidence does anyone have that global warming exist ? Its not any warmer .
     
  25. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    A lot of LIers don't seem to have been paying attention to the famous "3 Hs". All of a sudden they "look up!" and OMG it's HAZY. It's been in the weather reports as long as I can remember.

    So says the scientist. But what evidence do you have, other than "it looks like geoengineering" do you have?
     
  26. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    Fed up with Joe's trolling - added to ignore.
     
  27. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Whos trolling ? Anyone you disagree with is a troll ? I used to think most of you guys were trolls but decided to call you friends I disagree with ?
     
  28. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    But you don't present any evidence. You just disagree.
     
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  29. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    Yes Long Island was always hazy thats why I moved to Florida the Sunshine State ?
     
  30. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    And what,Joe, you found out it's hotter and more humid, and therefore hazier, than here. And I might add more depressed economically?
     
  31. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    You dont either ? You just say scientist say it so so it must be true ? Jay and Mick do put up some good info . Iv learned much from them which is why I keep coming back. The rest just seem to mock . Evidence ? Im still searching for that .
     
  32. JRBids

    JRBids Senior Member

    You are searching for evidence to bolster what you believe. YOu're not finding it.
     
  33. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    No actually its not hotter in the summer and been cooler than most . it averages 90 in the peak of summer it just last longer plus the cost of living is much lower and less crowded at least than Smithtown and Hauppage . I haven't been back to the Island since 1998 and wouldnt care if I ever returned . Maybe just Montauk :)
     
  34. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    No searching for truth in a world of lies . Plus I work for a living so my time is limited .
     
  35. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    well its 90 in florida and our skies looked the same Jay ? Not exactly as cold as Denmark ? and if he seeing ice doesnt that mean there is something that the ice has formed around ? Like particles or condensation nuclei ?
     
  36. Boston

    Boston Active Member

    Mick, I can't seem to open the posting guidelines, actually almost nothing seems to open. I did manage to get the "whats new' button to work and as it just so happens I've had the following article on my desk top for a bit awaiting an opportunity to go over it more thoroughly. Great article from Gavin Schmidt over on realclimate about global dimming. Gavin was one of the authors of the IPCC who started a great blog if your interested.

    See
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/01/global-dimming/
     
  37. Sausalito

    Sausalito Active Member

     
  38. cloudspotter

    cloudspotter Senior Member

    What does geoengineering look like?
     
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  39. Boston

    Boston Active Member

    Saus

    I'm curious if you understand the rate of change issue. Climate change is a constant, things are always changing. but its the rate of change that determines if evolution can keep up. beyond a certain rate, extinctions occur. Soooooooo are you suggesting that we have not exceeded that rate ?
     
  40. TomC

    TomC Member

    Looks like perfectly normal cloud formations and optical phenomena to me.

    Take a look through this textbook on clouds, you'll see pictures similar to yours.

    http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_407_en-v2.pdf
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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