Claim: US military are preparing a major PSYOP/martial law - Op Jade Helm

MikeC said:
I don't imagine that marines exercising among a civilian population are going to be carrying live rounds...let alone carrying them locked and loaded..... are they???:eek:
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I hope not. Like Whitbeard said, we have large exercises in the UK, and they barely get on the local news, and the only concerns people have is noise from planes and helicopters or traffic issues.

I've certainly never heard of anyone this side of the pond considering these things to be the opening shots of WW3.

Svartbjørn said:
There wont be any.. itll be more hooping and hollering and those screaming jack booted thugs/police state/martial law/psyop will simply have to say that it was the Tx State Guard that prevented the Army and Marine Corps from carrying out their dastardly deeds.
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Tx State Guard? Do they have that many F22s?
 
MikeC said:
I don't imagine that marines exercising among a civilian population are going to be carrying live rounds...let alone carrying them locked and loaded..... are they???:eek:
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LOL I was adding that in just as you posted..

No, from my experience as a Marine we never carried live rounds UNLESS we were standing post somewhere its required.. Ammo sites, SCIFs, things of a sensitive nature OR if there's a credible threat. That said though, keep in mind that there will most likely be live fire events, so live rounds may be issued prior to departure but most of the time we didnt get the rounds until we were at the range.

Given the rampant paranoia, there's no telling what will happen... the brass may decide NOT to issue live rounds until they arrive at the range, or they MAY just on the off chance some nut job decides to open fire on a convoy. Id personally lean more towards NOT issuing, but I dont know the political mindset of the brass running the show anymore. When I was in, we erred on the side of caution. A LOT has changed in that department because of all the crazy stupidity going on.

On 9/11 I was at a live fire event, and we loaded our 5 ton with sand bags and issued out 10,000 rounds of live ammo for the drive back to Cherry Point from Camp Lejeune (8 vehicle convoy, 3 SAWs, 15 or 20 M-16s, 9mm pistols, .50 MG etc..) a 45 min drive turned into 6 hours with all of us on edge, in condition one (full mag, round in chamber). We had no way of knowing who was friend or foe. It wasnt fun. Could be a similar situation here, will have to wait and see.

*Edit - Edited for spelling and to break up the text wall
 
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BombDr said:
I hope not. Like Whitbeard said, we have large exercises in the UK, and they barely get on the local news, and the only concerns people have is noise from planes and helicopters or traffic issues.

I've certainly never heard of anyone this side of the pond considering these things to be the opening shots of WW3.



Tx State Guard? Do they have that many F22s?
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Honestly I have no idea. I ran across those tweets and the article earlier today. Im actually getting ready for work as we speak and just happened to see a spot to stick'em here as part of the conversation. I know nothing about the Tx State Guard or if there's a difference between them and the Tx National Guard. My understanding is that the State Guard is a standing militia but I honestly dont know.
 
the wiki entry on The Texas State Guard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Guard

The Texas State Guard (TXSG) is one of three branches of the Texas Military Forces. Along with the other two branches, the TXSG falls under the command of the Governor of Texas and is administered by the Texas Adjutant General, an appointee of the Governor. The other two branches of the Texas Military Forces are the Texas Army National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard.

The mission of the Texas State Guard (TXSG) is to provide mission-ready military forces to assist state and local authorities in times of state emergencies; to conduct homeland security and community service activities under the umbrella of Defense Support to Civil Authorities; and to augment the Texas Army National Guard and Texas Air National Guard as required....

....
The Texas State Guard is a state defense force that assists and augments Texas military and civil authorities in times of state emergencies, and in on-going support of National Guard units and local communities. They are not a part of the United States Armed Forces.

The Texas State Guard consists of six Civil Affairs Regiments, two Air Wings, a Medical Brigade and a Maritime Regiment.

Members' entry rank depends on prior federal military service and/or civilian education. Individuals with no prior military service or ROTC training must attend the Basic Orientation Training (BOT) course.

Texas State Guard personnel actively support the state in the event of catastrophic events, and ongoing state military missions. Members receive duty pay [currently $121 daily, regardless of rank] when activated by the Governor and placed on paid state active duty, and starting in 2008, for a limited number of mandatory training days.
Content from External Source
As for aircraft, no f-22's. But they do have (or at least have access to) F-16's, C-130's, and MQ-1 drones.
info from here
 
The County Commissions in Bastrop, Texas recently held a town meeting to answer questions regarding Jade Helm

Infowars posted a video of the meeting:

http://www.infowars.com/livestream-americans-flood-courtroom-to-oppose-jade-helm/

I thought that LTC Mark Lastoria, the Army officer tasked with answering questions, did an excellent job of attempting to address an array of concerns. Some were simple, regarding redress for possible property damage, for example.

It did not take long, however, for the CT crowd to appear. LTC Lastoria responded to an array of questions and attempts at monologues, calmly citing state law, Defense Department policy, etc., but also refusing to be baited into a pointless debate.

In a sense, his approach could be a primer on how to treat conspiracy theorists.
 
Svartbjørn said:
On 9/11 I was at a live fire event, and we loaded our 5 ton with sand bags and issued out 10,000 rounds of live ammo for the drive back to Cherry Point from Camp Lejeune (8 vehicle convoy, 3 SAWs, 15 or 20 M-16s, 9mm pistols, .50 MG etc..) a 45 min drive turned into 6 hours with all of us on edge, in condition one (full mag, round in chamber). We had no way of knowing who was friend or foe. It wasnt fun. Could be a similar situation here, will have to wait and see.
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I can imagine that would definitely be scary!

When I was in the military the local range was 20 miles out of town, and the only live ammo carried in the same truck as our weapons was the round on the end of my bolt one time that hadn't fired and hadn't ejected and hadn't been seen by the safety officer...until we stripped and cleaned bback at barracks!! Cost me a dozen beers....;)

However your situation came AFTER the event.....so while I could see a similar scenario occuring now it would only be AFTER some proximate event such as a credible threat or actual attack, and then I expect the armoury would run its own security detail on the ammo - ie guards who are expecting to do such detail and are appropriately trained - not line troops who don't have ROE or SOP for the situation.

I expect any ammo (live and blank - I assume they get treated the same) for the exercise does have it's own security detail(s) anyway as a matter of course.
 
MikeC said:
I can imagine that would definitely be scary!
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It was, but not because we were afraid of getting hurt... we were afraid of hurting someone else. The idea of opening fire on American Citizens just did NOT sit well with any of us. Marines are trained to kill, its our job.. but that doesnt mean we like it, and we REALLY dont like having to think about doing it to the very people we're sworn to protect and defend.

MikeC said:
I expect any ammo (live and blank - I assume they get treated the same) for the exercise does have it's own security detail(s) anyway as a matter of course.
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In some respects it was, in others it wasnt. The mindset was to treat it as live rounds once it was issued.. every round had to be accounted for and god help you if you were missing ONE. As far as guarding it goes, kinda depends on the situation. There were ammo sites that had very specific regulations and requirements based on the type of ammunition being stored and the way its stored once inside the ammo storage magazine. For example, EOD stuff werent stored within so many meters of live weapon rounds, because they cook off at different temps. Dont want an accidental cook off making a big boom if it hits a crater charge (probably a bad example but you get the idea).

Blank rounds didnt have AS tight a hold on restrictions of that nature because they're basically just gun powder in a metal casing. there were no bullets inside the casings. They're still guarded and all, held in their own storage etc but mainly because you dont want some idiot just walking off with miniature explosives. There were a few times the blanks were stored in the armory but I dont know if thats because we were using the harness systems (think a super expensive laser tag system) or of there was adequate and proper storage inside the armory itself. Didnt get to play with the harness systems very often.

On the other hand, when we were at the rifle range for annual qualifications, wed get issued the rounds at the range, had to go through metal detectors etc before leaving just to make sure we didnt have any "brass, trash or live rounds" on us. That never changed no matter where we went or what we did, but the blanks were different with every command I used them in. Not sure if its because the regs changed or if because it was up to each command to do what they felt needed to be done.

MikeC said:
However your situation came AFTER the event.....so while I could see a similar scenario occuring now it would only be AFTER some proximate event such as a credible threat or actual attack, and then I expect the armoury would run its own security detail on the ammo - ie guards who are expecting to do such detail and are appropriately trained - not line troops who don't have ROE or SOP for the situation.
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Thats where the Army and the Marine Corps differ. I stood duty for ammo sites as a plain old radio operator.. didnt matter what your MOS was, if you're there then there's a chance your platoon or whatever will get tagged for fire watch/duty etc. The Army has the numbers to be specific like that, the Marine Corps doesnt. So Im not sure how that'll be handled.
 
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Landru said:
We could wait and what happens. I'm betting nothing other than what was stated.
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I wonder....If I put $100 up for a bet, how many takers I would get ?
Put a challenge up on Twitter...see who will take that bet ?

I win the bet if "Jade Helm 15 is carried out as an exercise as stated in the gov't published announcement/document".
I lose the bet, and pay $100 if "Marshall Law begins, as a result of Jade Helm 15".

Perhaps this is only a mental exercise.....though I have a friend at my workplace, who might accept.
(if I lose, he might ask for payment in gold...)
 
For the record.. I love being around a bunch of nerds LOL. Leave it to us to take a subject that's scaring the pants off of paranoid people everywhere and find a way to bring some levity to it to break the tension lol.
 
Svartbjørn said:
For the record.. I love being around a bunch of nerds LOL. Leave it to us to take a subject that's scaring the pants off of paranoid people everywhere and find a way to bring some levity to it to break the tension lol.
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That's the problem with these people. They need to embrace their inner nerd or at least just learn to lighten up.
 
The Martial Law CT was a monumental blunder for the theorists but somewhat instead of discarding it, they keep fishing for its 'evidence' in the least likely places.

A similar CT is the Seventh Day Adventist(SDA) National Sunday Law which basically claims that the U.S. will team with Roman Catholic Church to legislate on Sunday worship and persecute Sabbath keepers.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/National_Sunday_law
 
vooke said:
The Martial Law CT was a monumental blunder for the theorists but somewhat instead of discarding it, they keep fishing for its 'evidence' in the least likely places.

A similar CT is the Seventh Day Adventist(SDA) National Sunday Law which basically claims that the U.S. will team with Roman Catholic Church to legislate on Sunday worship and persecute Sabbath keepers.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/National_Sunday_law
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And there were a few groups that combined the two CT for historically disastrous results. Growing up in the Ozark mountains of Arkansas during the '70s and '80s, and having an SDA pastor for a father gave me the distinct displeasure of meeting some folks who would later split off from the group of SDA that my father helped shepherd to become things like the Branch Davidians, and the CSA. Ever since the REX 84 hubbub, there has been a large crossover between the martial law CT believers and the Sunday law believers. My grandfather went to his grave in the '90s still believing he would be hunted down by blue helmeted UN troops and have his head chopped off by guillotine for being an SDA. My father is in his 70s now, and still to this day 30 years plus later believes he will be hunted for his religion and martial law will be enacted to imprison him in some camp somewhere, even though he himself has left the SDA church long ago. He's still a Christian, and has a bad habit of listening to the likes of Rush and Glen who peddle that nonsense for a living, so he still has that nagging fear. (And prepares for the big day with gold and firearms, not unlike many of the other CT folks I've seen recently.) :rolleyes:

I removed myself from the church when I was given the choice to, at age 12. I removed myself from those CT mindsets shortly thereafter, with only a slight dip back into the rabbit hole about a decade ago with a mild case of 9/11 trutherism that was quickly cleared up by a strong dose of reality mixed with a booster shot of evidence. ;)
 
CeruleanBlu said:
...and has a bad habit of listening to the likes of Rush and Glen who peddle that nonsense for a living
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I have to stop you there: I've listened to several hours worth of Rush Limbaugh and never heard him suggest anything like martial law was coming or promote any CT (even on climate change, the impression I got was that he thinks scientists are in error, not deliberately carrying out a hoax).... He's full of bovine manure, and I disagreed with maybe 95% of what I heard; but his tirades are neither worse nor even different from those most big mouths and politicians deliver, both on the right and on the right.

I have no reason to think Glen Beck is any different. Pundits and talk show hosts being 'wrong', 'uninformed' or even 'misinformed' when it comes to their political opinions is a long way off from fearmongering of the sort infowars is engaged in.
 
@Santa's sidekick you have to be aware of the incessant "collapse" mantra that runs throughout the likes of Beck and Limbaugh followers, and the gold adverts in the reading material they send out. My father likes to pass his American Rifleman, Limbaugh Letter and The Blaze on to me whenever he finishes them, and the chicken little is strong with these great leaders of men. From the Agenda 21 nonsense that Beck spews, to the "political aspects of AGW denial" and "BUY GOLD BUY GOLD" spiel from the both of them, it's more apparent. Whether non-binding UN agreements based on climate change issues or societal goals, which are both hot topics judging from the printed material they pump out, these CT folks who have been preaching this same martial law mantra for generations tend to find some way to wind the forthcoming failure of government leadership into UN troops knocking on their door to imprison them.

When the voices of these movements don't explicitly state the endgame being martial law, (like Alex Jones has been doing for the last 20 years,) it isn't hard for their generalized non-specific doom-saying to be added to the "evidence" pile that emits from the INFOWARS crew. Whether Beck or Rush themselves have spoken those words on TV or in radio or not in the last 20 years, I don't know, last show of Rush's I listened to was late '90s. So no, I cant vouch for their specific beliefs about the subject, but their actions certainly don't help those already infected with the idea.
 
Santa's sidekick said:
I have to stop you there: I've listened to several hours worth of Rush Limbaugh and never heard him suggest anything like martial law was coming or promote any CT (even on climate change, the impression I got was that he thinks scientists are in error, not deliberately carrying out a hoax).... He's full of bovine manure, and I disagreed with maybe 95% of what I heard; but his tirades are neither worse nor even different from those most big mouths and politicians deliver, both on the right and on the right.
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Freudian slip there at the end? :p

Rush does peddle nonsense for a living (remember him explaining why Romney would win by a mile? http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...except_the_polls_points_to_a_romney_landslide)
but you're right that "martial law" style stuff isn't his specialty. That said, let's not pretend he's above
entertaining the thought on nationwide radio...

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/02/20/caller_fears_what_2016_has_in_store
Screen Shot 2015-04-29 at 9.35.22 AM.png
 
And the Texas Governor doubles down on taking stupid conspiracies seriously -


AUSTIN — Gov. Greg Abbott on Tuesday ordered the Texas State Guard to monitor federal military exercises in the state, responding to citizen fears, stoked by online conspiracy theories, that the maneuvers are a ruse to impose martial law.
Operation Jade Helm 15 is a large-scale training operation scheduled for elite military forces, such as the Navy SEALS and Green Berets. The operation will involve about 1,200 personnel operating in Southwestern states including Texas from July 15 to Sept. 15.
Content from External Source
1200 military is "large scale" in the USA?? REALLY???!!

It would be "large scale" in New Zealand - in the US it's nothing much more than the annual camp for a National Guard brigade!!
 
1200 US soldiers in a country a lot smaller than Texas (not to mention this covers other states as well!) isn't even called "boots on the ground." It's called "consultation" or "training local forces" or "limited local security" or some other euphemism.

That might be enough to occupy a mid sized city (maybe even a big one with police cooperation), but not even a fraction of the state of Texas.



Pretty much every martial law related theory ignores the required manpower and firepower to actually achieve such a goal, and expects a few dozen agents with a few thousand rounds of ammunition to be able to control large cities and disarm its population.
 
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1200 US soldiers in a country a lot smaller than Texas (not to mention this covers other states as well!) isn't even called "boots on the ground." It's called "consultation" or "training local forces" or "limited local security" or some other euphemism.
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Not to be a nitpicker (says the guy who's about to be a nitpicker), but whether troops are said to be 'boots on the ground' or 'advisors' largely depends on whether they have an explicit combat role, and (perhaps more importantly) the political situation back home; the size of the contingent is immaterial. (For example, the tories in Canada are calling the 70 Canadian commandos in Iraq 'advisors', and the opposition parties call them 'boots on the ground'; but everyone calls the 200 commandos in Ukraine 'advisors'.)
 
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Hevach said:
1200 US soldiers in a country a lot smaller than Texas (not to mention this covers other states as well!) isn't even called "boots on the ground." It's called "consultation" or "training local forces" or "limited local security" or some other euphemism.

That might be enough to occupy a mid sized city (maybe even a big one with police cooperation), but not even a fraction of the state of Texas.



Pretty much every martial law related theory ignores the required manpower and firepower to actually achieve such a goal, and expects a few dozen agents with a few thousand rounds of ammunition to be able to control large cities and disarm its population.
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Good point. Conspiracy theorists also discount the tooth-to-tail ratios necessary to support an operation for any period of time. The majority of "boots on the ground" are logistical, even including contractors.
 
Santa's sidekick said:
........ (For example, the tories in Canada are calling the 70 Canadian commandos in Iraq 'advisors', and the opposition parties call them 'boots on the ground'; but everyone calls the 200 commandos in Ukraine 'advisors'.)
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Depends which commandos you are talking about, and who is doing the talking.

Other terms include "volunteers" and "terrorists".
 
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Hevach said:
That might be enough to occupy a mid sized city (maybe even a big one with police cooperation), but not even a fraction of the state of Texas.
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Between June 1940 and June 1944 it took the Nazi occupation forces between 300,000 - 500,000 men to occupy France, and that is with the help of around 50,000 Italian troops and Vichi french forces AND the French police and other organisations (The Gestapo etc). And even then they failed to stop the French resistance AND the British SOE units playing merry hell with their communications and transport systems.

Can't see 1,200 troops being able to do much in any country bigger than say Lichtenstein in all reality.
 
MikeC said:
1200 military is "large scale" in the USA?? REALLY???!!

It would be "large scale" in New Zealand - in the US it's nothing much more than the annual camp for a National Guard brigade!!
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That's how many kids are in my son's Algebra class!!


p.s. Snopes.com is currently looking into the rumor that the French are already trying to surrender
 
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Whitebeard said:
Between June 1940 and June 1944 it took the Nazi occupation forces between 300,000 - 500,000 men to occupy France, and that is with the help of around 50,000 Italian troops and Vichi french forces AND the French police and other organisations (The Gestapo etc). And even then they failed to stop the French resistance AND the British SOE units playing merry hell with their communications and transport systems.

Can't see 1,200 troops being able to do much in any country bigger than say Lichtenstein in all reality.
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That's a bit unfair - zee Germans expected a landing on the channel coast; the troops in France were there mainly in preparation. There were sixty German divisions in all of France and the Low Countries on the eve of D-Day, and the majority of these were stationed on or near the coast. Also, the Vichy French could hardly be called enthusiastic in their struggle with the resistance (even by French standards :p ).

Perhaps a better example would Yugoslavia, where Marshal Tito and his band of merry men re-conquered the country from twenty German divisions.
 
If this whole thing is 1200 troops, why are CTers making such a big deal about it? Is it so rare to have >1200 troops participate in exercises in the US?
 
Santa's sidekick said:
That's a bit unfair - zee Germans expected a landing on the channel coast; the troops in France were there mainly in preparation. There were sixty German divisions in all of France and the Low Countries on the eve of D-Day, and the majority of these were stationed on or near the coast. Also, the Vichy French could hardly be called enthusiastic in their struggle with the resistance (even by French standards :p ).

Perhaps a better example would Yugoslavia, where Marshal Tito and his band of merry men re-conquered the country from twenty German divisions.
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Some French were VERY enthusiastic about fighting the resistance .

In fact France was mostly governed by French institutions - France had surrendered in 1940 - so the French govermnet aparatus continued to function for the occupiers as the Vichy regime, including the police.

Of course in 1944 the Vichy government no longer existed in any meaningful way but het police and Milice continued to exist and function in support of hte occupying government.
 
Santa's sidekick said:
If this whole thing is 1200 troops, why are CTers making such a big deal about it? Is it so rare to have >1200 troops participate in exercises in the US?
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It all really depends on the exercise to be honest about it @Santa's sidekick .. some are larger, some are smaller.. some, like CAX (Combined Arms Exercise) in 29 Palms can have as many as 20 to 30k, depending on the phase, the goal, the time of year and the training scenario. In every trainex I took part in, the US was always divided up into OpFor and RedFor, there were even training evolutions where parts of Canada were divided up and added to the mix as part of one side or the other but they usually had some really dumb name as a country.. nothing realistic.. For example, one year the OpFor was called MoonUni and the other was Zaptastic.. IE Frank Zappa's daughter MoonUnit and a reference to Frank Zappa himself.

All said though, thats the biggest thing a lot of the CT crowd arent understanding.. the area being used is just a backdrop, it has nothing to do with the people that live there or the area itself OTHER than its a good approximation of possible combat scenarios that may arise in the future. For the first two and a half years or so that I was in, most of our training was MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain), but shifted to desert/mountain warfare after 9/11 with MOUT being expanded on but redone to fit the types of scenarios troops might face in the field.

To a paranoid mind though, its all training for oppression and dehumanizing the American People because "da gubment dun said so." Hell there are ppl screaming FEMA camps and Martial Law because of the crap going on Baltimore right now, and Im SURE thats fueling the fire for Jade Helm as well.
 
3000 personnel are involved when a carrier gets underway for a training exercise. Add another 2000 if it has an air wing embarked.
 
Svartbjørn said:
To a paranoid mind though, its all training for oppression and dehumanizing the American People because "da gubment dun said so." Hell there are ppl screaming FEMA camps and Martial Law because of the crap going on Baltimore right now, and Im SURE thats fueling the fire for Jade Helm as well.
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Yup, you called it: http://www.infowars.com/police-and-national-guard-invade-baltimore-streets/


This is a glimpse of what a martial law scenario would look like with militarized police and national guard being deployed to quell the riots in Baltimore.
Content from External Source
They love the "militarized police" tagline. Did they think a public order response would be carried out in dress uniform, shiny shoes and stern gazes?
 
CeruleanBlu said:
And there were a few groups that combined the two CT for historically disastrous results. Growing up in the Ozark mountains of Arkansas during the '70s and '80s, and having an SDA pastor for a father gave me the distinct displeasure of meeting some folks who would later split off from the group of SDA that my father helped shepherd to become things like the Branch Davidians, and the CSA. Ever since the REX 84 hubbub, there has been a large crossover between the martial law CT believers and the Sunday law believers. My grandfather went to his grave in the '90s still believing he would be hunted down by blue helmeted UN troops and have his head chopped off by guillotine for being an SDA. My father is in his 70s now, and still to this day 30 years plus later believes he will be hunted for his religion and martial law will be enacted to imprison him in some camp somewhere, even though he himself has left the SDA church long ago. He's still a Christian, and has a bad habit of listening to the likes of Rush and Glen who peddle that nonsense for a living, so he still has that nagging fear. (And prepares for the big day with gold and firearms, not unlike many of the other CT folks I've seen recently.) :rolleyes:

I removed myself from the church when I was given the choice to, at age 12. I removed myself from those CT mindsets shortly thereafter, with only a slight dip back into the rabbit hole about a decade ago with a mild case of 9/11 trutherism that was quickly cleared up by a strong dose of reality mixed with a booster shot of evidence. ;)
Click to expand...

My observations
Sects steeped in apocalypse are more likely to get into CTs
 
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