When Torture Kills: Ten Murders In US Prisons In Afghanistan

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Is this fact or a Conspiracy Theory? If it is not 'fact'... why?

http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/20...lls-ten-murders-in-us-prisons-in-afghanistan/

The interrogation and detention regime implemented by the US resulted in the deaths of over 100 detainees in US custody — at least [see “Command’s Responsibility,” a Human Rights First report from 2006, PDF]. While some of those deaths were the result of “rogue” interrogators and agents, many were caused by the methods authorized at the highest levels of the Bush White House, including extreme stress positions, hypothermia, sleep deprivation and others. Aside from the fact that they cause immense pain, that’s one reason we’ve always considered those tactics to be “torture” when used by others — because they inflict serious harm, and can even kill people. Those arguing against investigations and prosecutions — that we “Look to the Future, not the Past” — are thus literally advocating that numerous people get away with murder.

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http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/20...guantanamo-the-declaration-of-ahmed-al-darbi/

Statement, made by Guantánamo prisoner Ahmed al-Darbi on July 1, 2009, was originally posted by the U.C. Davis Center for the Study of Human Rights in the Americas, a University of California research project, coordinated by Almerindo Ojeda,

45. When I was in the communal holding pen, an Afghan prisoner by the name of Dilawar was shackled in a hanging position in the cage adjacent to my pen. I remember that this was the same cage where I had been suspended.

46. I recall that Dilawar had been hanging hooded for about two days and was screaming and moaning. A U.S. guard told Dilawar that he would release him if he would clean the floor. I spoke a little Pashto and some English, so the guard ordered me to translate this instruction for Dilawar. I was then ordered to clean the floor with him. After we were done, the guard chained Dilawar to the top of the cage once more. Dilawar started screaming again.

47. Then the next shift of guards came on. They ordered Dilawar to stop screaming. They then brought a shorter chain and used it to suspend him wholly off the floor by his wrists. Dilawar moved his body only slightly and that is when the guards began beating him.
48. At first two guards were beating Dilawar, kneeing him in the legs and punching him in the chest as he was suspended in the cage. They then moved him to the walkway area, outside the cage, and several guards beat him. By this point, Dilawar had stopped moving or crying. I witnessed this entire event.
49. Dilawar was then moved somewhere out of my sight. Days later, I heard Dilawar had died. This made me fearful that I would meet the same fate.

Content from External Source
http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/20...lls-ten-murders-in-us-prisons-in-afghanistan/
In early December, the unfettered violence finally spilled over into homicide. The first victim was Mullah Habibullah, who was apparently the brother of a Taliban commander from Uruzgan. Stout and well-presented, he was described as “very confident” by the major in charge of the MPs. After kneeing a soldier in the groin during his anal probe [which all prisoners received on arrival], three guards took him to an isolation cell and shackled his wrists to the wire ceiling, and on the following two days, when he was still “uncooperative,” he was given several peroneal strikes by one of the soldiers, whose lawyer later noted that his client was “acting consistently with the standard operating procedure that was in place at the Bagram facility.” By the fourth day, he was coughing and complaining of chest pains, and his interrogator allowed him to sit on the floor because he was unable to bend his knees to sit down. Despite this, the violence increased the next day, when two MPs gave him nine peroneal strikes while he was handcuffed to the ceiling in one of the isolation cells. When three soldiers came to his cell later in the day and pulled off his hood, he was already dead
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In what sense is it a Conspiracy Theory. If there is a conspiracy it is only to protect individuals from prosecution. I would think it is only the incredible naive think abuses do not happen. The only issue is as to what level.
 
I'm sure some of it is fact. There are probably various degrees of evidence that supports the various accusations. But it's well known that abuse happens. It's well known that people are actually tortured, even if there's an attempt to legitimize it as "advanced interrogation techniques".

Extreme abuses happen, sometimes people go to jail for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Graner

It's certainly a big problem.
 
In what sense is it a Conspiracy Theory. If there is a conspiracy it is only to protect individuals from prosecution. I would think it is only the incredible naive think abuses do not happen. The only issue is as to what level.

I don't know. I have seen, like most others, the reports of torture but they are always sanitised by saying 'oh it's only water boarding which is just 'bending the rules' a bit and it hardly ever happens' and justified as 'an means to an end'.

People do not seem to appreciate the extent that this goes on and that so many people have been murdered under this scheme.

Obama took office under the promise that he was going to close Guantanamo but soon backtracked.

There are many many accounts of people giving false information in an attempt to save themselves from being tortured and then this information is regurgitated as fact by the media, to justify keeping the war machine going and imposing ever tighter constraints and surveillance on the general public, (for their protection) and lets face it... many say "yes yes, protect us by surveiling everyone... we have nothing to hide" little realising they are giving absolute power to the government and that one day, they could be the victim.

That seems like a major conspiracy to me.
 
Well, consider that a lot more people have died in US local jails and state prisons (4,150 in 2010, mostly attributable to natural causes), the public just does not really care on average. But I think you'll find there are a lot of people who do care, there's just not a lot they can do about it.

I think if you want to classify it as a conspiracy, you need to focus more on specific cases, and list the actual evidence. Unfortunately eyewitness accounts from other prisoners are not going to be considered viable - especially when we are told that Al Queda specifically instructed its members to make claims of torture whenever they are captured.
 
I'm sure some of it is fact. There are probably various degrees of evidence that supports the various accusations. But it's well known that abuse happens. It's well known that people are actually tortured, even if there's an attempt to legitimize it as "advanced interrogation techniques".

Extreme abuses happen, sometimes people go to jail for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Graner

It's certainly a big problem.

It is a big problem Mick and it appears to come from the top.

[h=4]Following orders[/h] The main defense was that Graner was following orders from, and supervised by, intelligence officers.[31] Graner and others testified that many senior officers were aware of the activities and actively supported them. This is why he was not worried about taking and distributing the photographs which were later used against him. Referring to military intelligence, Graner testified "I nearly beat an MI detainee to death with MI there" before Pohl cut him off.[32]

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I know Andy Worthington's work well and I do respect his intergrity, but he does have a habit of bias and presenting facts that may exaggerate the issue. That's why I mentioned the scale of the issue.

I think if there was a conspiracy theory the only one valid is the one that morality stays constant during "war" and between combatants. Covering up these crimes maintains that illusion but I see it as also protecting the population from what "war" is. That's if they care. Mmm starting to ramble now.
 
I know Andy Worthington's work well and I do respect his intergrity, but he does have a habit of bias and presenting facts that may exaggerate the issue. That's why I mentioned the scale of the issue.

I think if there was a conspiracy theory the only one valid is the one that morality stays constant during "war" and between combatants. Covering up these crimes maintains that illusion but I see it as also protecting the population from what "war" is. That's if they care. Mmm starting to ramble now.

Yes I see where you are coming from, (I think). 'It's easy to cover things up when people do not want to know'.

Guess they won't like this then.

 
Yes I see where you are coming from, (I think). 'It's easy to cover things up when people do not want to know'

It's a case of yes and no at the same time. I have to be careful otherwise I will end up on a lecture on the morality of war. But to get to the point, unfortunately these abuses are a fact of "war". I don't think governments hide the fact they happen but they don't go out if their way to tell people. At the end if the day you could even question the validity if the Geneva Convention if only one side is signed up.

I still do wonder as to the conspiracy theory aspect.
 
I think I need to go read the book I have on Gitmo--I think it is something like 'Behind the Fence'. I had forgotten I had it (I bought it along with a stack of others) and it didn't get shelved. My puppy found the sack it was in and 'retrieved' it the other night, along with others
 
I think I need to go read the book I have on Gitmo--I think it is something like 'Behind the Fence'. I had forgotten I had it (I bought it along with a stack of others) and it didn't get shelved. My puppy found the sack it was in and 'retrieved' it the other night, along with others

Please read some of Andy Worthington's stuff. For the UK it is the Battle of the Beanfield and the moving on of travelling folk. But I will say. Anyone came on our land was safe.
 
In what sense is it a Conspiracy Theory. If there is a conspiracy it is only to protect individuals from prosecution.

I think that is a significant part of many CT's. For it to be a legitimate CT, there would need to be some form of 'illegality' or immoral subterfuge. In this case we are discussing, (in my view), the illegality of the torture and murder and the consequent cover up... which can include inappropriately minimal sentencing.

I would think it is only the incredible naive think abuses do not happen. The only issue is as to what level.

It would appear that abuses go on daily at a high level of excess and also with the knowledge of the highest levels of command and responsibility.

If we are to employ these methods, (which I am not advocating), at least lets be open about it rather than pretend we are morally superior and it is only the bad guys that resort to this.
 
It would appear that abuses go on daily at a high level of excess and also with the knowledge of the highest levels of command and responsibility.

If we are to employ these methods, (which I am not advocating), at least lets be open about it rather than pretend we are morally superior and it is only the bad guys that resort to this.

What are the evidence that these abuses are ongoing? The examples seem to refer to a period of time 5-12 years ago. There's been a lot of discussion of torture since then, and it seems generally recognized now that it's a bad idea. Why would people be using it?

Check out the .mil opinions on torture - they all pretty much don't like it:

https://www.google.com/search?q=use+of+torture+in+the+US++site:.mil
 
What are the evidence that these abuses are ongoing? The examples seem to refer to a period of time 5-12 years ago. There's been a lot of discussion of torture since then, and it seems generally recognized now that it's a bad idea. Why would people be using it?

Check out the .mil opinions on torture - they all pretty much don't like it:

https://www.google.com/search?q=use+of+torture+in+the+US++site:.mil

Yes that is all to the good and admirable that so many are trying to eradicate it.

However, how do we know it is not still going on undercover despite protestations to the contrary due to the bad publicity.

''Torture is never acceptable, nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture.” President Bush, 27 January 2005.

A bald faced lie!

http://www.revcom.us/a/1271/bush-torture-directive.htm

Hopefully it is the case, that it is not now ongoing but I have my doubts and we shall see.

I think this type of thing is underpinning many conspiracy theories. It shows the lengths that government will go to, to perpetrate and then cover up what they have done. I think many people realise the significance that 'they are not exempt' and the government 'cannot be trusted'.
 
Day 36...Gitmo hunger strikes are ongoing, allegedly involving over 100 detainees but with the U.S admitting 14.
86 of whom have been cleared for release!

It appears to be a rerun of the 2005 hunger strikes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantánamo_Bay_hunger_strikes

Guantánamo Bay hunger strikes began during the middle of 2005, when detainees held by the United States at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp initiated two hunger strikes. The detainees organized several widespread hunger strikes to protest their innocence, and the conditions of their confinement.[1][2][3][4] Other captives, such as the men camp authorities asserted committed suicide in June 2006, had committed themselves to long-term hunger strikes, which were not shared by the other captives.

According to Andy Worthington, the weight of at least eighty captives dropped to below 100 pounds (45 kg) each.[1]

Camp authorities responded by adding force-feeding captives, according to the camp's Standard Operating Procedures.[5] They had started isolated cases of force-feeding, called "re-feeding", early in the camp's history. Human rights workers, and Physicians' professional associations, have criticized the use of force-feeding on mentally competent patients at Guantanamo.[1][6][7]
The American Department of Defense (DoD) spokesman, Lieutenant Commander Flex Plexico, said on July 21, 2005 that 50 detainees were involved in the hunger strike. The first hunger strike ended on July 28, 2005, when prison authorities agreed to bring the camp into compliance with the Geneva Conventions.
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http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/15149-us-acknowledges-14-on-hunger-strike-at-guantanamo-prison

The U.S. military said Friday that it had designated 14 captives at the Guantánamo detention center as “hunger strikers,” and that six of them were being force-fed through tubes in the first admission of a protest claimed by defense attorneys.
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http://rt.com/usa/guantanamo-hunger-strike-expands-359/
Earlier, layers said most of the 130 prisoners held at Camp 6, where the majority of Gitmo’s 166 prisoners are incarcerated, are taking part in a hunger strike. Fifty-one attorneys wrote Thursday to Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel calling on him to intervene.

The huge disparity in the numbers of strikers reported by Guantanamo staff and by the lawyers is explainable by the fact that the definition of a hunger striker is in the hand of authorities, said Pardiss Kebriaei from the Center Constitutional Rights, one of the complainant lawyers.
“Our understanding is that based on previous standards the determination of who is a hunger striker is a discretionary determination that the Guantanamo makes,” she told RT. “If the definition of a hunger striker is entirely in their control and is a matter of their discretion, then I think that explains how they are able to say that there are no more than a handful of men on hunger strike.”

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This is just horrible. Free the men that have been cleared and put the others on trial. This makes me ashamed to be American. Come on Obama, do you even remember any of your promises?


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I think if you want to classify it as a conspiracy, you need to focus more on specific cases, and list the actual evidence. Unfortunately eyewitness accounts from other prisoners are not going to be considered viable - especially when we are told that Al Queda specifically instructed its members to make claims of torture whenever they are captured.

Ok lets focus on the Dilawar case. We have the detailed account above, (which, if true, is horrendous by any standards), but you question the validity because of the source,(being a fellow inmate and allegedly a 'terrorist/enemy combatant').

So is there a conspiracy and if so what is it?

I suggest the conspiracy is i) 'to carry out torture/murder in secret', ii) protect the torturers/murderers and the people who authorised the torture murder from any or appropriate due penalty commensurate with the crime , iii) to mislead the public by covering up systemic torture and murder.

The Facts

Bush and Cheyne authorised torture under the guise of 'enhanced interrogation' and justified it as legitimate 'ends justify the means'.

While some of those deaths were the result of “rogue” interrogators and agents, many were caused by the methods authorized at the highest levels of the Bush White House, including extreme stress positions, hypothermia, sleep deprivation and others.
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Bush denies use of torture.
''Torture is never acceptable, nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture.” President Bush, 27 January 2005.
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Dilawar died in Gitmo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilawar_(torture_victim)
Dilawar was a 22-year-old Pashtun taxi driver and farmer from the small village of Yakubi in the Khost Province of Afghanistan, who was 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) tall, and weighed 122 pounds (55 kg). Dilawar was transporting 3 passengers in his taxi, when he and his passengers were arrested at a checkpoint. The four men were detained and turned over to American soldiers who transferred them to the Bagram Theater Internment Facility. His passengers, like Abdul Rahim and Zakim Shah reported to have experienced similar treatment as Dilawar but they survived Bagram and were later flown to the Guantanamo Bay detention camps.[2] At Bagram, Dilawar was chained to the ceiling of his cell, suspended by his wrists for four days. His arms were dislocated from their sockets, and flapped around limply, whenever guards collected him for interrogation. During his detention, Dilawar's legs were beaten to a pulp and an amputation would have been necessary. He is survived by his wife, and daughter, Bibi Rashida.[1]


The New York Times reported on May 20, 2005 that:[2]
Four days before, on the eve of the Muslim holiday of Id al-Fitr, Mr. Dilawar set out from his tiny village of Yakubi in a prized new possession, a used Toyota sedan that his family bought for him a few weeks earlier to drive as a taxi. On the day that he disappeared, Mr. Dilawar's mother had asked him to gather his three sisters from their nearby villages and bring them home for the holiday. However, he needed gas money and decided instead to drive to the provincial capital, Khost, about 45 minutes away, to look for fares. At a taxi stand there, he found three men headed back toward Yakubi. On the way, they passed a base used by American troops, Camp Salerno, which had been the target of a rocket attack that morning. Militiamen loyal to the guerrilla commander guarding the base, Jan Baz Khan, stopped the Toyota at a checkpoint. They confiscated a broken walkie-talkie from one of Mr. Dilawar's passengers. In the trunk, they found an electric stabilizer used to regulate current from a generator. (Mr. Dilawar's family said the stabilizer was not theirs; at the time, they said, they had no electricity at all.) The four men were detained and turned over to American soldiers at the base as suspects in the attack. Mr. Dilawar and his passengers spent their first night there handcuffed to a fence, so they would be unable to sleep. When a doctor examined them the next morning, he said later, he found Mr. Dilawar tired and suffering from headaches but otherwise fine. In February, an American military official disclosed that the Afghan guerrilla commander whose men had arrested Mr. Dilawar and his passengers had himself been detained. The commander, Jan Baz Khan, was suspected of attacking Camp Salerno himself and then turning over innocent "suspects" to the Americans in a ploy to win their trust, the military official said.
The three passengers in Mr. Dilawar's taxi were sent home from Guantánamo in March 2004, 15 months after their capture, with letters saying they posed "no threat" to American forces.
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It was initially passed off as 'natural causes'

According to the death certificate shown in the documentary Taxi to the Dark Side, the box marked Homicide had been checked as the ultimate cause of death. however, the military had so far publicly claimed that Dilawar had died from natural causes. It was only by accident that the death certificate was leaked, when New York Times reporter named Carlotta Gall managed to track down Dilawar's family in Yakubi, where Dilawar's brother, Shahpoor, showed her a folded paper, he had received with Dilawar's body. He could not read because it was in English. It was the death certificate.[8]
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His interrogators/torturers, believed him to be innocent.

On the day of his death, Dilawar had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days. A guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling. "Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying. Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before Army investigators learned that most of the interrogators had in fact believed Mr. Dilawar to be an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.[2]

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And people wonder why there are rumours and fears of FEMA death camps?
 
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News blackout on Gitmo hunger strike. Americans just don't know from TV news and it has not been on U.K news either... Wonder why?

 
News blackout on Gitmo hunger strike. Americans just don't know from TV news and it has not been on U.K news either... Wonder why?

Asking people on the street is not evidence that something is "hidden from the american public"

Did you even check?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...a2f102-9afc-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html
[h=3]By Peter Finn and Julie Tate, Published: April 1[/h]
A hunger strike at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has spread over the past two weeks, with the U.S. military saying the number of detainees participating in the protest has more than doubled and attorneys for the men insisting that the number is far higher.



The Pentagon said Monday that 39 men are consistently refusing food. Of those, 11 are being force fed — a process that can involve strapping the detainee down and passing a liquid nutritional supplement through a tube that is run from the nose into the stomach. Attorneys for the detainees, who visit the military detention center or speak to their clients by phone, said nearly the entire population of Camp 6 — where detainees can use common areas — is on hunger strike. Until recently, 130 detainees were kept in Camp 6, but it’s unclear how many remain. The lawyers said some of the protesters have been moved to the adjacent Camp 5 complex, which has been used to hold “non-compliant” detainees in greater isolation.
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Asking people on the street is not evidence that something is "hidden from the american public"

Did you even check?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...a2f102-9afc-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html
By Peter Finn and Julie Tate, Published: April 1


A hunger strike at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has spread over the past two weeks, with the U.S. military saying the number of detainees participating in the protest has more than doubled and attorneys for the men insisting that the number is far higher.



The Pentagon said Monday that 39 men are consistently refusing food. Of those, 11 are being force fed — a process that can involve strapping the detainee down and passing a liquid nutritional supplement through a tube that is run from the nose into the stomach. Attorneys for the detainees, who visit the military detention center or speak to their clients by phone, said nearly the entire population of Camp 6 — where detainees can use common areas — is on hunger strike. Until recently, 130 detainees were kept in Camp 6, but it’s unclear how many remain. The lawyers said some of the protesters have been moved to the adjacent Camp 5 complex, which has been used to hold “non-compliant” detainees in greater isolation.
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I said TV News, as did RT. Yes I did check, I went into my CT search engine and looked and there is no news on any major Western, English speaking TV station that I could find, or apparently you either on your CIA search engine. :)
 
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I said TV News, as did RT. Yes I did check, I went into my CT search engine and looked and there is no news on any major Western, English speaking TV station that I could find, or apparently you either on your CIA search engine. :)

CBS news has been following the story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57577182/11-years-in-guantanamo-without-trial-or-charges/

And more people get their news online than from TV, so what's your point?

(I'm no Guantamano fan, I think many of the people there are probably innocent, some are known to be innocent, and it should have been shut down, and people should ge trails. But that's a separate issue,)
 
I have been following it for several weeks.

The problem we have with quite a few of the prisoners still in Gitmo, is that if we just send them home, they will be tortured or imprisoned. We are trying to find countries that will take them. The Chinese Muslims are a major problem.
 
CBS news has been following the story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57577182/11-years-in-guantanamo-without-trial-or-charges/

And more people get their news online than from TV, so what's your point?

(I'm no Guantamano fan, I think many of the people there are probably innocent, some are known to be innocent, and it should have been shut down, and people should ge trails. But that's a separate issue,)

My point is as already stated, there is an observable lack of TV coverage amounting to a news blackout on the Gitmo hunger strikes. The only link you provide does not even mention the Gitmo hunger strikes, which appears to pretty much conclusively proves my point.

88 of the approx remaining 150 have been declared innocent and cleared for release years ago. Apparently 'they are not being released as 'it cannot be guaranteed that they are not a threat to the U.S in the future''.

Excuse my cynicism but does that rationale not apply to literally everyone?

The 'News' lol, should include matters of importance. The fact that this is not reported on National TV News suggests a cover up or that 'The American Gulag system' is of no importance. People should not need to hunt for such news on on the internet. They didn't have to hunt the internet to be told how OBL was behind 9/11 or how Iraq had WMD's.
 
I have been following it for several weeks.

Interesting, what news source do you use?

The problem we have with quite a few of the prisoners still in Gitmo, is that if we just send them home, they will be tortured or imprisoned. We are trying to find countries that will take them. The Chinese Muslims are a major problem.

That is amazing. These innocent people are fighting to be released from Gitmo imprisonment and torture in an attempt to be imprisoned and tortured elsewhere and the nice American government are protecting them from themselves. Nice, can you back that up... how many ... who?
 
The 'News' lol, should include matters of importance. The fact that this is not reported on National TV News suggests a cover up or that 'The American Gulag system' is of no importance. People should not need to hunt for such news on on the internet. They didn't have to hunt the internet to be told how OBL was behind 9/11 or how Iraq had WMD's.

There is an element of truth in what you are saying, but the Guantanamo situation is very far from a news blackout. It's just not compelling TV news. But there's a large amount of news about the story, including TV news - CBS HAS been following the story, I linked you to a story that's part of a series about Guantanamo, which is focussing on individuals.

Hunger strikes are just not interesting. People go on hunger strikes all the time.
 
News blackout on Gitmo hunger strike. Americans just don't know from TV news and it has not been on U.K news either... Wonder why?

Such broad generalizations are the hallmark of Oxy's MO.

Not only is he wrong but he seems to believe TV is where most Americans get their news.

Approximately 6% of the country watches any of the 3 main network news broadcasts- (22 million out of 315 million)..30yrs ago it was over 50%

http://stateofthemedia.org/2012/network-news-the-pace-of-change-accelerates/

This story appeared on TV news:

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/30/hunger-strikers-determined-to-leave-guantanamo-one-way-or-the-other/


..nevermind that it was in the New York Times over 2 weeks ago..and 3 more times since:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/us/hunger-strike-cases-surge-at-guantanamo.html?_r=0
 
Such broad generalizations are the hallmark of Oxy's MO.

Not only is he wrong but he seems to believe TV is where most Americans get their news.

Approximately 6% of the country watches any of the 3 main network news broadcasts- (22 million out of 315 million)..30yrs ago it was over 50%

http://stateofthemedia.org/2012/network-news-the-pace-of-change-accelerates/

This story appeared on TV news:

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/30/hunger-strikers-determined-to-leave-guantanamo-one-way-or-the-other/


..nevermind that it was in the New York Times over 2 weeks ago..and 3 more times since:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/us/hunger-strike-cases-surge-at-guantanamo.html?_r=0

Thanks for finding that and msnbc did a very good report on it.

I guess you'll be writing to your congressman to say how disgusted you are that the U.S is running this Gulag. Sounded like the presenter might. Who knows; the BBC may even do a TV report next on the News.
 
Hunger strikes are just not interesting. People go on hunger strikes all the time.
Reminds me of that bit in Cosmopolis when they drive by the self-immolation.
cosmopolis-stills2.jpg
"It's not original."
 
The question is why didn't YOU find that...instead of making false accusations?

The 'thanks' were for finding 'the needle in the haystack'... well done.

There is nothing false about the allegation, (which was made by RT BTW), it is true. One or God forbid TWO even TV mentions does not mean there is not a news blackout unless you wish to interpret it absolutely literally. This stuff is a disgrace to mankind and should be on the Nightly News with updates and inquiries.

Perhaps they ran it once to cover themselves legally, (the government that is), and so 'people like you' could 'on cue' say 'OF COURSE IT ISN'T BEING COVERED UP... TO SAY DIFFERENT IS A LIE ... NO ONE IS INTERESTED'.

And as for 'it is inappropriate to ask the 'man in the street', if they know about it', as evidence that people are being kept in the dark... what do you offer as an alternative?
 
There is nothing false about the allegation,

What??

You said there was a news blackout- there is not- not on TV or anywhere else. You were wrong and your allegation demonstrably false.

That the evening news doesn't match your coverage priorities doesn't mean its being censored.
 
The 'thanks' were for finding 'the needle in the haystack'... well done.

There is nothing false about the allegation, (which was made by RT BTW), it is true. One or God forbid TWO even TV mentions does not mean there is not a news blackout unless you wish to interpret it absolutely literally. This stuff is a disgrace to mankind and should be on the Nightly News with updates and inquiries.

Perhaps they ran it once to cover themselves legally, (the government that is), and so 'people like you' could 'on cue' say 'OF COURSE IT ISN'T BEING COVERED UP... TO SAY DIFFERENT IS A LIE ... NO ONE IS INTERESTED'.

And as for 'it is inappropriate to ask the 'man in the street', if they know about it', as evidence that people are being kept in the dark... what do you offer as an alternative?

A statistically significant survey. RT is a strongly biased media outlet, and it's very easy to interview people in the street, and then pick only the answers that match what you are setting out to prove.

There are thousands of stories you could say there's a "news blackout" on, based on your criteria. Network TV news only covers a few stories per day (probably only 5% of what online media covers), and it only reaches a small percentage of the population.

And why is a Guantanamo hunger strike major news again? They seem to get quite a reasonable amount of coverage.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...amo-hunger-strike-edges-18808345#.UV3NH6uwwf4
Hunger strikes have occurred at Guantanamo since shortly after it opened in January 2002. The largest one began in the summer of 2005 and reached a peak of around 131 prisoners, when the facility held about 500 detainees.
Content from External Source
 
What??

You said there was a news blackout- there is not- not on TV or anywhere else. You were wrong and your allegation demonstrably false.

That the evening news doesn't match your coverage priorities doesn't mean its being censored.

What a surprise... you interpret one measly TV item on this huge human rights subject as 'there is no TV news blackout'. Way to go.

Your 'plausible deniability' looks well suspicious and deceitful to me.
 
What a surprise... you interpret one measly TV item on this huge human rights subject as 'there is no TV news blackout'. Way to go.

Your 'plausible deniability' looks well suspicious and deceitful to me.



What a surprise- you counter the fact that you were wrong with ad hominem attacks
 
A statistically significant survey. RT is a strongly biased media outlet, and it's very easy to interview people in the street, and then pick only the answers that match what you are setting out to prove.

There are thousands of stories you could say there's a "news blackout" on, based on your criteria. Network TV news only covers a few stories per day (probably only 5% of what online media covers), and it only reaches a small percentage of the population.

And why is a Guantanamo hunger strike major news again? They seem to get quite a reasonable amount of coverage.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...amo-hunger-strike-edges-18808345#.UV3NH6uwwf4
Hunger strikes have occurred at Guantanamo since shortly after it opened in January 2002. The largest one began in the summer of 2005 and reached a peak of around 131 prisoners, when the facility held about 500 detainees.
Content from External Source

Bias from news media? mmmm...

Yep... no one is really interested in American Gulags and torture anymore... it's so usual it's passe.

So what do you think would be a better way of finding out what people are aware of?
 
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What a surprise... you interpret one measly TV item on this huge human rights subject as 'there is no TV news blackout'. Way to go.

Your 'plausible deniability' looks well suspicious and deceitful to me.



One measly TV item?

CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/in...rlos-warner-guantanamo-bay.cnn?iref=allsearch

CBS News:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22s6Z4n7wVo

the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p015whcr/Newshour_Guantanamo_hunger_strike/

The Guardian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nfV6iKVYdY

HuffPo live- (I think this may be web only)

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/ar...lure-to-close-prison/514b90532b8c2a7e6700018e

ABC News (AU):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43aOLAIVkE
 
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