War.gov/UFO - Department of War Releases UAP Files - 2026 Release 1

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"Me: They should release the data and research that the UAPTF and UFOlogists claim exists or confirm that it doesn't exist, so that it can be debunked."

Let's role play

Release the video of you saying you owe me 1000 pounds.
Maybe my english isn't good enough to express what I meant to say with "or confirm that it doesn't exist". I just meant that they need to clearly communicate that it doesn't exists and give an explanation, backed up with whatever documentation exists, to why the other side is wrong. Like in a courtroom.

There is some difference between me and USG, it is a bureaucracy which document things. If Person X claim that there is a craft hidden at location Y there is probably a lot about his claim that can be backed up or debunked. Such as in the case of Lazar. He claimed that he had an education for the job, it was revealed that he did not.

And before someone tries to take another round in the loop of counter-arguments: Again, they need to say as much as they can or give allowance for the person to reveal what is necessary, if there is some USAP or similar involved. Whatever USG can reveal or not, they need to have an open and honest communication. Right now they aren't even denying the claims at all. Just silently allowing the accusations to go on, or at times doing something half-assed to try to appease the critics (which makes it worse).
 
then they need to confirm that,
Why do we have to confirm that the U.S. government doesn't have secret proof of UFOs? Should we also prove that they don't have evidence of Bigfoot or unicorns? And how on earth do you think it would be possible to prove such a thing? The only way to do that would be to declassify everything ever recorded by the Pentagon (and every other government agency). And even then, people could still claim that the government is hiding things from us.

Based on our current understanding of the UAP phenomenon, we have no real reason to believe we're dealing with anything other than ordinary objects, clutter, or sensor malfunctions. What exactly is the government supposed to disclose? We see videos of small dots that sometimes look like birds and behave like birds, but some of the on-screen data is redacted. Should we demand access to that classified data simply because, even though everything suggests they're birds, they could still be aliens? We don't need to present evidence that space ghosts aren't playing hide-and-seek with the U.S. Navy. It's up to the people making those claims to provide the evidence.
 
I just think we have to agree to disagree on this point. Personally, I don't think we "need the data and the research." It's not about proving or disproving alien visitations. It's about disproving individual pieces of "evidence" put forward by believers.

The UFO crowd often argues, "ET is here—just look at all this evidence." That's why we have to study this "evidence" piece by piece, since a hundred lousy videos are no better proof than one lousy video.

But as a skeptic, I will never stand on the barricades demanding more evidence of UFOs. It's up to the people making all sorts of silly claims to present the evidence.
Ok, we have different ideas of what a sceptic is, fair enough.

But I should add the fatted part to the loop. Maybe I do that later.
 
Again, they need to say as much as they can or give allowance for the person to reveal what is necessary, if there is some USAP or similar involved. Whatever USG can reveal or not, they need to have an open and honest communication. Right now they aren't even denying the claims at all. Just silently allowing the accusations to go on, or at times doing something half-assed to try to appease the critics (which makes it worse).


That is an interesting point, what I take away from it may be different from what you intended, though!

I think we need to consider,

doing something half-assed to try to appease the critics (which makes it worse).

I'd ask, "Is there anything that the government could do that would NOT be interpreted by the believers as a half-assed effort to appease the believers?" Other than saying "Yeah, we know all about the UFO aliens (or time travelers, or whatever) and have been hiding it, here is the proof that Big UFO was right all along!" I suspect ANYTHING will be viewed as hiding the good stuff. And they can't come out with that proof unless it exists.

My evidence for that reaction from believers is the history of disclosure over decades which always disclosed "we don't have nor are we aware of evidence," and which is always dismissed as just the government covering up the "good stuff."

Related topic already referenced above -- Would it make the job of debunkers easier if they didn't redact the "black boxed" stuff on the ATFLIR display when they release yet another balloon or bird or distant plane that is too far away to resolve? Sure, but would that convince the true believers, and the Big UFO leadership making a living off of this stuff, and the media outlets and online influencers using it to attract views? I'd say no, and I'll support that by pointing out that Go Fast and Gimbal are still the go-to cases for illutrating articles about UFOs/UAP, in spite of the fact that all the graphics and numbers and such are right there, unredacted, and made debunking claims about these videos easier. (Not easy, some smart folks did a lot of work to tease out information from those numbers and graphics, but easier.)

SO... if having that sort of info makes no difference to the beleivers, I'm not sure what the value is of releasing it. I wouldn't oppose it, to the extent it can be done without risks to national security. But it would not accomplish anything.

------------------------------------------

In terms of engaging with Big UFO, from the point of view of the government or military, there are two tactics to dealing with a sealioning* irritant or others who insist not just on answers, but on answers that confirm what they want to believe -- you can engage them, but this puts you into an unending confrontation from which the only escape is to eventually disengage, at which point they say your disengagement proves the sealion was right all along, OR never engage in the first place, and let them say your refusal to engage proves the sealions right! Either way, you wind up in the same place, the latter tactic saves you a lot of time and agravation!

(The Governemnt appears to have chosen a middle path, with some engagement which wastes less time and energy than full engagement... but will still lead to the same place. What the sealions claim in the end is not dependent on what their target does.)


*For any that are new to the term: Sealioning: A tactic where someone harasses others by relentlessly demanding evidence and explanations for their statements, all while maintaining a facade of polite, reasonable debate. The goal is to exhaust the target, derail the conversation, and force them to look unreasonable when they finally refuse to engage. In my view, Big UFO is in many ways a herd of sealions.
 
I was thinking about this being an "unknown" phenomena (stuff in the sky/sea/space). Surely someone like Elon/Jeff/insert multi-billionaire name here would have jumped on to this? Why wouldn't they have setup satellites, cameras, sensors, whatever to track/record/follow these unknown things.

The amount of money that could be extracted from an "unknown" tech would surely attract them. Either it's government tech and they know to not be involved or it's a conspiracy that involves alien tech, government and countless ultra wealthy people.

I'd be interested to know what Elon has said previously about UAP's/aliens etc. If it's vague and pointless, it would seem more government tech. If he show's a genuine interest and goes in depth about his thoughts etc. then I still think it might be government tech :D

The more you think about it, it just seems impossible that multiple decades and countless people across government and public have never shown clear anything. Then you fold in misinformation and it just becomes actually impossible to understand what is going on.
 
Maybe my english isn't good enough to express what I meant to say with "or confirm that it doesn't exist". I just meant that they need to clearly communicate that it doesn't exists and give an explanation, backed up with whatever documentation exists, to why the other side is wrong. Like in a courtroom.

In English we call that "proving a negative", something that can't really be done. In various subjects like UFOs and the paranormal, those who make claim often use this rhetorical argument to shift the burden of proof from the claimant to the skeptic.

Bigfoot is the classic example. I can show you some fuzzy photos, some dubious footprints and a bunch of stories about people claiming to see Bigfoot. Then I demand that you refute this evidence and "prove" there is no Bigfoot. Something you can't do. You can point out that the evidence for the existence of Bigfoot is inconclusive, unreliable and often misunderstood. You can point out that the positive evidence for Bigfoot, like a fossil record, DNA, and bodily remains are absent, but you can't "prove" Bigfoot does not exist, just that there is little to no evidence that he does.

As you can't prove Bigfoot does not exist, I can now claim victory and proclaim Bigfoot real, with little to no evidence. I've transferred the burden of proof from my claim to your refuting of my claim. This is the same thing that happens in the UFO world and I think you've fallen victim to this mentality.

It is NOT the government's job to prove UFOs do not exist and they are not hiding them. It's the whistle-blowers job to provide evidence and prove their claim of UFOs. Note, many of these whistle-blowers, like Grusch and Elizondo resort to the same response about classified data when pushed for evidence for their claims. They can't share what they know, because it's classified.

And lastly, the government did deny the claims:

External Quote:

AARO found no evidence that any USG investigation, academic-sponsored research, or official review panel has confirmed that any sighting of a UAP represented extraterrestrial technology. All investigative efforts, at all levels of classification, concluded that most sightings were ordinary objects and phenomena and the result of misidentification. Although not the focus of this report, it is worthwhile to note that all official foreign UAP investigatory efforts to date have reached the same general conclusions as USG investigations.
External Quote:
AARO found no empirical evidence for claims that the USG and private companies have been reverse-engineering extraterrestrial technology. AARO determined, based on all information provided to date, that claims involving specific people, known locations, technological tests, and documents allegedly involved in or related to the reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial technology, are inaccurate. Additional claims will be addressed in VoluтеII.
Note, this included tracking down specific programs named by whistle-blowers:

External Quote:
AARO successfully located the USG and industry programs, officials, companies, executives, and documents identified by interviewees. In many cases, the interviewees named authentic USG classified programs well-known and understood to those appropriately accessed to them in the Executive Branch and Legislative Branch; however, the interviewees mistakenlyassociated these authentic USG programs with alien and extraterrestrial activity. AARO has reached the following, high confidence conclusions related to:
The agency Congress set up to answer the claims of the UFO people, succinctly answered the claims. There is no evidence for the claims, aside from some misunderstandings. IF there is no data backing up the UFO claims, then there is no data to share, in a courtroom or anywhere else.

The ball is back in the UFOlogist court. They need to show evidence.
 
It is NOT the government's job to prove UFOs do not exist and they are not hiding them. It's the whistle-blowers job to provide evidence and prove their claim of UFOs. Note, many of these whistle-blowers, like Grusch and Elizondo resort to the same response about classified data when pushed for evidence for their claims. They can't share what they know, because it's classified.


The ball is back in the UFOlogist court. They need to show evidence.
Agreed 100%.
 
Then they need to... ...give a description of what the craft look like and how it is anomalous. They need to say and reveal as much as they can if we are to have any chance to debunk the claims.

But we can see what reported UAP look like in the released videos. Generally small on-screen features a few pixels across, often in IR, making shape/ features very difficult to interpret. Some show brightness/ shape fluctuations that indicate they might be birds beating their wings.
None are obviously novel technological artefacts, though a few might be small drones or balloons, maybe windblown debris, pyrotechnics, who knows.

Someone else's description won't change that primary evidence.
I agree that more information from the recording sensors/ platforms/ reporting personnel might help us understand what might be being shown, but it is clear some locations and flight information won't be given.

There's no evidence that AARO, or anyone else, has any better or clearer footage other than claims by a small number of people who don't produce any evidence other than hearsay. Some of those people also claim there are known crashed/ retrieved alien spacecraft, which has been categorically denied by NASA, AARO and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; when asked about the subject the White House and DoD referred to AARO's response.
Whatever files are released or explanations given, if it doesn't support their viewpoint "believers" will claim there is better evidence, which is being hidden, that does.

...and how it is anomalous.

They are "anomalous" because the people submitting the clips think, or claim, they might show something anomalous. (I don't think AARO's title helps much- they are the "All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office", which implies what they review is anomalous, a word that might have different meanings or connotations for different people).
If there was a Loch Ness Monster Reporting Office, it's possible it would receive accounts of sightings and perhaps photos/ video showing hard-to-identify features on Loch Ness that might be signs of Nessie activity but which probably show something else.
Believers would claim the submitted material is evidence of the existence of Nessie, perhaps that the existence of The Loch Ness Monster Reporting Office in itself shows there must be an exciting Loch Ness phenomena.

This irrational refusal to learn more is making us look like dogmatists and them to look like the scientifically minded folks who want to see the data and evidences so that it can be analysed. We should be the ones that loudest demand disclosure.

That's assuming there's significant relevant information that hasn't been disclosed. This is the raison d'etre of the "disclosure movement",

External Quote:
The disclosure movement is a social movement that argues in favor of various conspiracy theories which allege that governments generally, or the United States government specifically, have secret information regarding UFOs and "non-human intelligence" – variously described as space aliens; "interdimensional" beings; beings originating on Earth or native to the atmosphere; demons; and even time travelers. The movement advocates for that supposed information to be declassified for purposes of human social and scientific advancement. The disclosure movement prophesizes a future event or process called "disclosure" that will mark the date upon which such declassification occurs.
Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure_movement

I hope that if there were reliable evidence of extraterrestrial life, alien artefacts of any sort, or news of some extraordinary human technological breakthrough it would be shared. Military developments probably won't be in the short term; but it must be unlikely for a whole host of reasons that e.g. the USAF has developed antigravity drives or a means to tap vacuum energy at Wright-Patterson, or has flying saucers at Area 51.

The vast majority of astronomers and allied scientists who might be most likely to detect possible extraterrestrial biospheres, or even perhaps detect an alien signal or technosignature, are civilian academics with no links to the military or security services, sometimes working in multinational collaborations. Oumuamua and other extrasolar objects were made public by astronomers, and the speculations of some (e.g. Avi Loeb) are not suppressed (though they are questioned, which is entirely appropriate).

The "Wow!" signal and LGM-1 were both made public. (admittedly LGM-1, pulsar PSR B1919+21, was announced after its probable cause was established). At the times of their discoveries these were the best evidence of ETI. We haven't had better since.
Radio communication is cheap, its signals traversing space at the speed of light. Even a civilization at our level of development- just 170 human lifetimes since the development of agriculture- can send and receive radio signals over interstellar distances.
If we were to see strong evidence of ETI, it might be more likely to be in the form of something detected by radio astronomers than anything connected with the 80-year old UFO scene.

In short: USG has to answer to the accusations even if that means denying the existence of that material
We know that USG (or at least its agencies, including AARO) receives claims that things have been seen in the sky that haven't been identified.
That can't be denied, and isn't.
AARO has made it clear, like Blue Book in the past, that it can't identify everything described by eyewitnesses or shown in photos/ footage.
If something is unidentified, it can't be ruled out that it is somehow exotic, but that doesn't mean it is likely to be so.
 
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As it is now, a lot of people find the UFO-WBers trustworthy and the longer USG is dragging this out the more people will be convinced that they are hiding something.
But that's exactly @Andreas ' point, isn't it? We have all those reports that were released to us in the last few weeks (that is, NOT "dragging this out") and instead of demonstrating transparency, the UFO crowd, angry at not having found any smoking guns, are still screaming "You're hiding the good stuff!". The more they're given, the more they whine. Release of that information has not shaken their preconceived notions. They will not accept that the UFO/extraterrestrial thing is largely built upon the misinterpretation of mundane and explainable phenomena.
My point was that they should release data that was useful instead.
"Instead"? Your point assumes what has never been shown to be the case, that there actually IS better data out there. You've got "the conclusion before the horse", which puts you firmly among those you describe as "a lot of people". You cannot accept what has been shown. We cannot prove a negative. Yet the UFO crowd still keeps trying to get blood out of a turnip.
 
This is totally off topic for this thread, however if an anecdote and a fuzzy photo is a "good example", can you provide the source for this so we can start a dedicated thread? There is no sense in debating the merits of this case, or others in this thread.
How is this off topic? I'm simply replying to someone who claimed that stigma has no impact and that there is nothing interesting about UFOs.

I don't see the need to create a separate thread for that specific case, since it has already been investigated in depth by GEIPAN. They examined it from every possible angle. Anyone can go to the GEIPAN website, read the report, and make up their own mind based on what was found (and what was not found).

I'm not saying this case, or others like it, proves that UFOs are "100% real" in the extraordinary sense. What I'm saying is that it shows UFO reports deserve to be taken more seriously and investigated properly.

There are many cases where the object should, in principle, have been identifiable; where it is highly unlikely that the witnesses lied or were completely mistaken about what they saw; and yet no satisfactory explanation has been found. In some of these cases, the reported objects also share similar odd characteristics.

My point was UFOs should be studied seriously, and we should look at the data worldwide (especially, in my opinion, the French cases) before making shortcuts or rushing to conclusions about UFOs. That's all.
 
How is this off topic? I'm simply replying to someone who claimed that stigma has no impact and that there is nothing interesting about UFOs.
You're paraphrasing me here. Please stop doing that. It changes what I actually said.

There are many cases where the object should, in principle, have been identifiable; where it is highly unlikely that the witnesses lied or were completely mistaken about what they saw; and yet no satisfactory explanation has been found. In some of these cases, the reported objects also share similar odd characteristics.
You really should provide specific examples instead of making vague, analogous claims. Terms like "highly unlikely" and "in principle identifiable" should be supported with evidence. Otherwise, it's just a repetition of the same claims the UFO community has been making for decades.

My point was UFOs should be studied seriously
And we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. Personally, I think we must first establish that a "phenomenon" actually exists before studying it.
 
Ok tell me if I'm wrong.
These are the different positions I noticed.

- UFOs are, in fact, "unidentified stuff" that lives in the Low information Zone.

- If you discover more stuff, even a still-unexplained one, it ceases to be unidentified.

- There will still be, even with better multi-sensor equipment, better cameras, a Low information zone that will still give us "unidentified" stuff.

So.
If science were to discover a new phenomena:
Say for example "sentient ghouls masquerading as flying saucers", that's what we'll call it, not "UFO" anymore.

I think Nourali (and also me) could mean this:
"I think, in the LIZ that creates what we now call UAPs, there could be something worth attention".

Some users agree, some others don't.
I think this describes it to an extent.
 
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Oh also I forgot.
In a sense, If we discover Ghouls masquerading as flying saucers, we also will have the "new UFOs", the new LIZ that creates unidentified stuff, that moves to a higher level but it's impossible to eliminate unless you have "ghouls technology".
 
Also the Stigma.
In my opinion, the stigma is real, has been real for a long time, but of course it does not explain alone the reason for "not very scientific" investigations on UFOs, that's what I think.
If a person comes out with a "ufo experience", whatever it is, he/she WILL experience a lot of stigma.
Maybe not from UFO fans, believers, and such.
But the majority of people? Yeah, stigma.
We know that the Robertson Panel is real, that stigma was somehow "induced".
This doesn't prove anomalies, again, but saying it hasn't hindered a bit of possibly more serious studies on the subject in 80 years? Yeah I don't know.
Now, one might say stigma is justified, was justified, or that it's simply inevitable, and then we can talk about it.

Also, the idea that there is no clear "definition" on "what to exactly examine", since we're talking unidentified stuff.
It's true, to an extent.
I think the new programs on UAPs have some "observables" (yes, those ones).
We probably found absolutely nothing while searching for these particular traces, and what has been released could point to it being just clutter.
These programs kinda have a more "clear" idea of what to look for.
They assure us they didn't find aliens, they talk "anomalies", they have a lot of secrets they still need to keep for possible foreign adversaries tech.
But that's not open science, and not done for "pure joy of discovery" reasons.
Rightly so, probably.
I think that's the direction from now on, based on what we've seen.
If they found nothing, but new ways of identificating birds and maybe foreign balloons or simply not waste a Hellfire missile on a party Mylar, then that's good.
 
What indication do you have that there are new physics in any of this?
None. It's an open hypothesis. If we already had the data to prove or disprove it, it wouldn't be classified as "unidentified clutter" in the first place.
I guess we have to agree to disagree on whether it's worth studying anomalies or not.
 
None. It's an open hypothesis. If we already had the data to prove or disprove it, it wouldn't be classified as "unidentified clutter" in the first place.
I guess we have to agree to disagree on whether it's worth studying anomalies or not.
How do you define the term "anomalies" in this context?
 
How do you define the term "anomalies" in this context?
As I said now countless times, the way AARO and NASA define it.
If nothing ever comes out of it worth studying, as I stated before, that would just expand the LIZ a bit further.
Do I have to change my mind regarding the "worth studying" subject at all costs?
 
I don't see the need to create a separate thread for that specific case, since it has already been investigated in depth by GEIPAN. They examined it from every possible angle. Anyone can go to the GEIPAN website, read the report, and make up their own mind based on what was found (and what was not found).
GEIPAN are not infallible; their investigators are often too quick to declare something anomalous. There are four photos from this incident; none of them show a triangle. And the detail of the dog's illness seems entirely irrelevant.
The fact that this case involves an orange ball of light suggests very strongly that they were observing a Chinese Lantern, perhaps with the aperture underneath distorted by the viewing angle to resemble a triangle. I've seen similar things myself.
 
Also the Stigma.
In my opinion, the stigma is real, has been real for a long time, but of course it does not explain alone the reason for "not very scientific" investigations on UFOs, that's what I think.
Stigma is a big word, and I think it needs to be defined. But first, I want to be absolutely clear: no one should be mocked or harassed, regardless of what beliefs they hold. At the same time, however, being taken seriously is not a human right.

Let me give one example. Consider the JAL cargo flight that encountered a "UFO" over Alaska. The pilot, Kenju Terauchi, claimed to have seen a giant "mothership." As it turned out, he was what investigators called a "UFO repeater" who had reported UFOs several times before. On at least one of those occasions, it was concluded that he had mistaken lights on the ground for a flying saucer. He was also an ET believer who publicly speculated not only about what the lights were, but also about how they were propelled and why they were here. After speaking publicly about the case, he was removed from flight duties and reassigned to a desk job.

"Stigma!" some people say. But is that really the case? Or could it simply be that a pilot heavily influenced by beliefs about extraterrestrials posed a potential air-safety concern? Mistaking lights on the ground for alien spacecraft, and possibly looking for ETs while piloting an aircraft, is not necessarily a threat, but it is a potential concern worth evaluating before allowing someone to continue flying. The same could be said of some of the few individuals within the intelligence community who believe in alien visitations, space ghosts, or fallen angels appearing on FLIR footage. Someone searching for such things instead of hostile drones might be less suited for the job. But is this really stigma?

My main point, however, concerns the connection between stigma and scientific research. It is often claimed that UFOs are not studied scientifically because of stigma. This is a convenient way of explaining why there is no scientific evidence of alien visitations or anomalous tic-tac-shaped objects flying through our atmosphere. But another possibility is that there simply is no well-defined phenomenon to investigate. Hoping that alien spacecraft are among us is not, by itself, a good reason to conduct scientific studies of UAPs.
 
GEIPAN are not infallible; their investigators are often too quick to declare something anomalous. There are four photos from this incident; none of them show a triangle. And the detail of the dog's illness seems entirely irrelevant.
The fact that this case involves an orange ball of light suggests very strongly that they were observing a Chinese Lantern, perhaps with the aperture underneath distorted by the viewing angle to resemble a triangle. I've seen similar things myself.
If we set aside the entire case, and the fact that GEIPAN is very familiar with this phenomenon, then yes, we can indeed say that.
This possibility was studied.

The sky lantern hypothesis works reasonably well for the initial phase: a silent orange light, moving slowly, with a direction broadly compatible with the wind.
But it fails badly once the second phase of the sighting is included.
The object reportedly made an abrupt stop, with no apparent deceleration, then entered a stationary hover for several seconds.
It then performed a vertical descent, a rotation, and later a vertical climb before resuming its original path — behavior that is not consistent with a passive object drifting in the wind.
Most importantly, he saw the structured grey triangular object, about 3–4 meters wide, with visible surface details.

It is hard to argue that GEIPAN easily labels cases as "anomalous" when, in 2025, it classified as "probably identified" a report (COUËTRON-AU-PERCHE (41)) describing an apparent 90-degree turn, based on the non-obvious hypothesis that two separate satellites were seen successively and mistaken for a single turning object.
 
Stigma is a big word, and I think it needs to be defined. But first, I want to be absolutely clear: no one should be mocked or harassed, regardless of what beliefs they hold. At the same time, however, being taken seriously is not a human right.

Let me give one example. Consider the JAL cargo flight that encountered a "UFO" over Alaska. The pilot, Kenju Terauchi, claimed to have seen a giant "mothership." As it turned out, he was what investigators called a "UFO repeater" who had reported UFOs several times before. On at least one of those occasions, it was concluded that he had mistaken lights on the ground for a flying saucer. He was also an ET believer who publicly speculated not only about what the lights were, but also about how they were propelled and why they were here. After speaking publicly about the case, he was removed from flight duties and reassigned to a desk job.

"Stigma!" some people say. But is that really the case? Or could it simply be that a pilot heavily influenced by beliefs about extraterrestrials posed a potential air-safety concern? Mistaking lights on the ground for alien spacecraft, and possibly looking for ETs while piloting an aircraft, is not necessarily a threat, but it is a potential concern worth evaluating before allowing someone to continue flying. The same could be said of some of the few individuals within the intelligence community who believe in alien visitations, space ghosts, or fallen angels appearing on FLIR footage. Someone searching for such things instead of hostile drones might be less suited for the job. But is this really stigma?
I agree with you on this.
That's not the "stigma" I'm talking about.
Just like the pilot who mistook Venus for an incoming plane and injured 11 passengers (that a user posted in another thread).
That's a matter of security, and I agree with the precautions taken.
I won't just say there is not stigma, and I also specified before that even if there was, that still doesn't explain alone science not taking it seriously.
I'll just wait, if we end up discovering nothing again in years, that's still ok to me.
 
But another possibility is that there simply is no well-defined phenomenon to investigate.

Yes. Trying to identify something in the LIZ, is not studying UFOs, it's trying to improve a collection system. It seems difficult to study a phenomenon that by definition can't be identified.

As noted, we have an entire 8 page thread on this topic, with some vehement disagreement on your stance.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/can-ufo-uaps-be-studied-scientifically.13556/
 
that still doesn't explain alone science not taking it seriously
We probably shouldn't discuss this further in this thread, as it's indeed a bit off-topic. But I'm honestly not so sure about the claim that "science isn't taking it seriously." Here in Sweden, you can study ufology at an academic level (and since students are paid to study in Sweden, the government is effectively paying people to study ufology). We have people like Villarroel hunting for alien probes, and in the US, some politicians have persuaded the government to spend millions of dollars on the subject. The fact that scientists haven't found any evidence of alien visitations shouldn't be confused with a lack of attempts to find such evidence.
 
Yes. Trying to identify something in the LIZ, is not studying UFOs, it's trying to improve a collection system. It seems difficult to study a phenomenon that by definition can't be identified.

As noted, we have an entire 8 page thread on this topic, with some vehement disagreement on your stance.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/can-ufo-uaps-be-studied-scientifically.13556/
I agree with you on this.
That's not the "stigma" I'm talking about.
Just like the pilot who mistook Venus for an incoming plane and injured 11 passengers (that a user posted in another thread).
That's a matter of security, and I agree with the precautions taken.
I won't just say there is not stigma, and I also specified before that even if there was, that still doesn't explain alone science not taking it seriously.
I'll just wait, if we end up discovering nothing again in years, that's still ok to me.
It is hard to study a series of distant blurry lights in the sky that remain distant and blurry -- or resolve into satellites and aircraft -- no matter where you put your sensors or how you improve them over time.

OTOH, there is now the Vera C. Rubin Observatory in Chile scanning the night sky in unprecedented detail and generating 7 million data alerts every night, so people who want to look systematically for anomalous objects can look there.
 
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