US strike against narco vessel claimed to be fake.

[NoParty]

So, this is where we are in 2025:
Our tax dollars are being used to kill people on the seas,
and we only hear about it via fucking social media,
and the "proof" that it was justified comes from the man who lies constantly, every day.
To ease our minds, we're told (with no proof) that now there's
"Big bags of cocaine and fentanyl all over the place." Well, that's gotta be good, right?

 

[FatPhil]

To ease our minds, we're told (with no proof) that now there's
"Big bags of cocaine and fentanyl all over the place." Well, that's gotta be good, right?

Better than some of the alternatives:

Smoke cloud from meth seized by FBI sends Montana animal shelter workers to hospital

Updated on: September 13, 2025 / 10:00 AM EDT / CBS/AP

The future of a Montana animal shelter remains uncertain after a cloud of smoke from two pounds of methamphetamine seized and incinerated by the FBI filled up the building and sent workers to the hospital.

-- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/montana-animal-shelter-meth-burn-fbi/

 

[Ann K]

In case anyone wonders, the deaths per year from all causes, worldwide was approximately 60 million. Here's a chart, including estimates due to population growth up through the end of the century. (Deaths in the USA are that little line way down at the bottom.)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-deaths-per-year

 

[boguesuser]

Well, we have proof. What you have to do is look at the cargo. There was, like, it's spattered all over the ocean. Big bags of cocaine and fentanyl all over the place. And it was.

I hope they actually do have valid intel and not just killing fisherman and guessing about the debris...yikes.

That really makes me think they striking boats willy nilly and only reporting the ones that had drugs. I hope they aren't and he's just a bad speaker...

 

[Gary C]

Why isn't the administration taking the opportunity to seize the boats (clearly within their capabilities) and photograph themselves with all the bad drugs they've prevented from entering the US, and parade the traffickers in front of the cameras? Wouldn't that be better marketing?

...

It would be if people outside his MAGA base were the target audience. He is the reigning master of political distraction.

 

[FatPhil]

Is this an admission that simple fishing vessels are at risk from unwarranted military attacks?


Source: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1968378660496564407#m

Because if so ...

 

[MonkeeSage]

Is this an admission that simple fishing vessels are at risk from unwarranted military attacks?

That's what it sounded like when Trump said it the other day. Now Vance is repeating the joke. I guess they think it's hilarious that they might be blowing up innocent fishing boats.

Trump speaking about the second boat:

Well, we have proof. What you have to do is look at the cargo. There was, like, it's spattered all over the ocean. Big bags of cocaine and fentanyl all over the place. And it was. Plus, we have recorded evidence that they were leaving. We've recorded them. It's very careful because we know you people would be after us. We're very careful. The military has been amazing. And General Cain showed me a little while ago the clip. But you can actually see it. But you don't have to see it because we have recorded proof and evidence. We know what time they were leaving, when they were leaving, what they had, and all of the other things that you'd like to have.

But we have noticed that there are no ships in the ocean anymore. We're seeing that there's, like, no ships. No, you know, when the first one we went, there were hundreds of boats. Now there are no boats. I wonder why. Meaning no drugs are coming across. Probably stopping some fishermen, too. I mean, to be honest, if I were a fisherman, I wouldn't want to go fishing. Just a nice, let's take a little trip. Because I'd say, man, if they, maybe they think I have drugs downstairs. I don't want that. I think the fishing business probably been hurt. But no, there are literally no boats. This was a boat. And we were surprised to see it.

Now, what does that mean? That means there's no drugs coming by sea. But they do come by land. And you know what? We're telling the cartels right now we're going to be stopping them, too.

I hope they actually do have valid intel and not just killing fisherman and guessing about the debris...yikes.

 

[Ann K]

Trump:

Well, we have proof. What you have to do is look at the cargo. There was, like, it's spattered all over the ocean. Big bags of cocaine and fentanyl all over the place. And it was.

"Look at the cargo" ...and yet it wasn't visible. No big bags of anything are seen "spattered all over the ocean". This is purely an invention of Trump.

 

[FatPhil]

That's what it sounded like when Trump said it the other day. Now Vance is repeating the joke. I guess they think it's hilarious that they might be blowing up innocent fishing boats.

Everyone loves a catchy saying to parrot, I guess. So the new "they're eating the cats" is "we might bomb fishermen"? I wonder if they dropped "GOP" and rebranded themselves to the "yes, we are the bad guys" party, whether they'd lose any support at all; I suspect not.

 

[Edward Current]

I wonder if they dropped "GOP" and rebranded themselves to the "yes, we are the bad guys" party, whether they'd lose any support at all; I suspect not.

They'd just adopt "Bad Boys, Bad Boys" as their theme song, and it would rise to #1 on the charts.

 

[deirdre]

They'd just adopt "Bad Boys, Bad Boys" as their theme song, and it would rise to #1 on the charts.

thats actually not a bad idea if we want the rest of the male youth vote.

 

[Bruce M]

Resurrecting this. One of many recent links on the topic.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-drug-boats-military-congress-war-crime-allegation-9.6999624

I was OP on the original post, and I still stand by my statement. The MX overlay layout shown in the videos is not possible without post editing, and now THIS video is the one that was the prelude to the controversial second strike.
So, hopefully, there will be a house committee investigation that reveals the raw videos at some point, that could explain why they chose to doctor this.
Did it always show survivors, and the press release version had that edited out and the overlays re-added to make it look more continuous? I really cant tell the motivation - just dont show anything if it doesnt look good.

 

[Mendel]

One of many recent links on the topic.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-drug-boats-military-congress-war-crime-allegation-9.6999624

You really need to quote from a link, like so: (See https://www.metabunk.org/threads/metabunks-link-policy.5158/ .)

Both the U.S. House and Senate committees on armed services have announced they'll look into allegations that two shipwrecked survivors of an initial strike in the Caribbean in early September were killed in a second targeted attack.

Republican and Democratic members of the committees have said if it's accurate that a strike was ordered on people who were defenceless after their boat had already been destroyed, the order could have been illegal, or even a war crime.

Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth dismissed the allegation when it was first reported by the Washington Post last week as "fabricated, inflammatory, and derogatory."

But on Tuesday, Hegseth acknowledged that a follow-up strike was ordered against the Venezuelan boat and he defended the action, saying he did not see survivors in the water while watching the operation unfold.

 

[Giddierone]

Since this thread started with a single incident, and there have now been 21 or 22 similar strikes and some 83 deaths reported. Has anyone seen any reporting on the evidence supporting this military action? (other than to say the government hasn't provided any).

 

[MrBurns]

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/12/02/...ibbean-boat-strike-iachr-complaint-intl-latam

The family of a Colombian man believed to have been killed in a US strike in the Caribbean has filed what's believed to be the first complaint against such attacks with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR).

The petition, filed Tuesday by US human rights attorney Dan Kovalik, alleges that Colombian fisherman Alejandro Carranza was killed when the US struck his boat off the coast of Colombia on September 15.

It claims that the United States carried out an extra-judicial killing in violation of Carranza's human rights. Kovalik told CNN they are seeking compensation for his family and an end to such killings, but did not elaborate on how those demands would be met.

Evidence would have to be provided at some point.

 

[Gary C]

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/12/02/...ibbean-boat-strike-iachr-complaint-intl-latam



Evidence would have to be provided at some point.

Heard on the radio earlier today that the US Coast Guard, which intercepts drug boats using the same intelligence data that the naval task force is using, actually finds drugs or other contraband on about 80% of the boats it intercepts. Given the number of strikes so far (20), that's probably four boats blown up with nothing illegal on board.

 

[FatPhil]

Heard on the radio earlier today that the US Coast Guard, which intercepts drug boats using the same intelligence data that the naval task force is using, actually finds drugs or other contraband on about 80% of the boats it intercepts. Given the number of strikes so far (20), that's probably four boats blown up with nothing illegal on board.

And that's from people doing the job they're paid to do, people who are interacting with other law enforcement agencies from other countries - this is literally what INTERPOL exists for:

Since the types of drugs trafficked and the routes used are constantly evolving, it is essential that countries work together in a united and coordinated way. At INTERPOL, we offer a range of services including training and operational support to help law enforcement agencies around the world increase their capacity to detect and investigate drug trafficking.

-- https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Drug-trafficking

One would not expect the same accuracy from those who are inexpert at the job, and working in isolation. (Or at least I wouldn't.)

 

[FatPhil]

One of my favourite sources on such matters is /Legal Eagle/, as they always pull up the actual relevant quotes, right down to the appropriate paragraphs in the relevant laws.

They've done another video on this story, /Illegal Orders Are Illegal/ (with the "kill them all" alleged Hegseth quote in the thumbnail image):

Source: https://youtu.be/watch?v=wkaS3-9WvM8

As hinted at in the title, this one does focus mostly on the arguments supporting obeying or disobeying orders - spoiler: the latter being not just permissible, but obligatory, if a reasonable person would consider the order patently illegal. However, see below...

More specifically on the matter of the operations themeselves, two months ago they released /Trump Killed 11 Alleged Drug Traffickers. Is This Murder?/ (with thumbnail image saying "ASSASSINATION")

Source: https://youtu.be/watch?v=7t-_m16y25o


However, for broader context, 5 months ago they released /Can The Military Refuse Trump's Orders?/ (with thumbnail image saing "NO"):

Source: https://youtu.be/watch?v=TwPLqGkYnBA

Which did take a somewhat more cautious stance against the disobey option. It's been 5 months since I've seen it, but I seem to remember that the defence of the obey option was that you don't have time to make a thoroughly informed decision on the matter, and that protections do exist if you are "just obeying orders".

It is a defense to any offense that the accused was acting pursuant to orders unless the accused knew the orders to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the orders to be unlwful.

-- Rule 916(d)

So /Legal Eagle/ are now putting much more weight on the "or a person of ordinary sense and understanding" clause.

 

[Giddierone]

It just doesn't make any sense to me why drug runners would use loud, highly visible fast boats with uncovered cargo and a crew larger than seems necessary when there are probably more stealthy and less obvious ways of moving drug cargos around.
It seems more likely that there is good fishing to be done in that area and if you can bring in your catch faster than the other guy then you make more money - but perhaps I'm being naive...

 

[Ann K]

It just doesn't make any sense to me why drug runners would use loud, highly visible fast boats with uncovered cargo and a crew larger than seems necessary

I understood from earlier reports on those attacks that drug boats only require a small (2-3 people) crew, while more people on board are needed for fishing. If that's the case, that 20% of boats would contain a higher percent of individuals. Is my memory incorrect?

 

[FatPhil]

It just doesn't make any sense to me why drug runners would use loud, highly visible fast boats with uncovered cargo and a crew larger than seems necessary when there are probably more stealthy and less obvious ways of moving drug cargos around.
It seems more likely that there is good fishing to be done in that area and if you can bring in your catch faster than the other guy then you make more money - but perhaps I'm being naive...

The actual legit photos of a Spanish drugs bust in the atlantic last year (which did circulate on social media as purported evidence supporting the justifiability of the US navy's attacks on boats recently, despite being nothing of the sort) did indeed show such a 4-outboard-motor speedboat and uncovered cargo (probably this case: https://policia.es/_es/comunicacion_prensa_detalle.php?ID=16404 , it's the right time of year and the right size haul, but alas that doesn't have the photo I remember (or any photo)). Crew size, I can't address, the photos were taken after the boats were apprehended. This unrelated case again shows a 4-outboard speedboat used by drug smugglers and does have a small crew, but in that one you can't see the drugs:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCGpZLdRIXY
.

So, no, stealth doesn't seem to be a strategy that's preferred amongst those who get caught (which could indeed confirm your point rather than deny it).

 

[Gary C]

From other reading, the boats were effective because:

• Before 24/7 drone surveillance the usual Navy/Coast Guard assets could not easily distinguish drug smugglers from more common activities using similar boats
• Before the current US show of force, there was not a large enough American presence along the Venezuelan coast to make this risky for the smugglers
• The required crew is indeed only 2-3. Helmsman, navigator, enforcer for the cartel. The rest are just security/thugs/manual labor
• Drugs are not the only things being smuggled in this manner. Smuggling is rampant in this region making boats like this more common than the general public realizes.

"Illicit firearms trafficking from the U.S. is fueling violence in Caribbean countries including Haiti, destabilizing the region and causing a growing number of people to flee their home countries for their safety," said Congressman Seth Magaziner, Ranking Member of the House Homeland Security Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement and Intelligence. "We need double down on efforts that will crack down on illicit firearms trafficking and stop cartels from spreading violence using U.S. weapons."

Source: https://democrats-foreignaffairs.ho...caribbean-can-be-traced-back-to-united-states

As reported over the past five years, human traffickers exploit domestic and foreign victims in Venezuela, and traffickers exploit Venezuelan victims abroad. As Venezuela's economic, political, and humanitarian crises continued, more than seven million Venezuelans have fled to countries around the world, and more than six million have settled in 18 countries in the region. Traffickers allegedly recruit Venezuelan migrants and refugees into trafficking networks, particularly women and girls, using false promises of safe migration. Venezuelan trafficking victims have been identified in 24 countries over the last five years. Traffickers exploit Venezuelan nationals in Aruba, The Bahamas, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, the People's Republic of China (PRC), Colombia, Costa Rica, Curaçao, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, Germany, Guyana, Haiti, Iceland, Macau, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Spain, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, and Uruguay. Venezuelan women and girls are particularly at risk of sex trafficking in neighboring countries. Venezuelan women and girls are exploited in sex trafficking in Peru's mining encampments and businesses serving miners. Traffickers lured women, including transgender women, to Spain and Germany with fraudulent employment opportunities and subjected them to forced surgical procedures before exploiting them in commercial sex. Traffickers increasingly exploit Venezuelan men in forced labor in other countries, including Aruba and Curaçao.

Source: https://www.state.gov/reports/2024-trafficking-in-persons-report/venezuela/#report-toc__section-5

One factor I was reminded of in my research for this response is the growth in demand for cocaine in Europe which has lagged that in US markets. The Caribbean appears to include a number of transshipment links from island nations to their former colonial powers in Europe.

Although the refined cocaine is occasionally transported directly to Europe from South America, increased patrolling in areas like Colombia's coastline has pushed drug traffickers to diversify their routes, including through the Caribbean.
To get to the Caribbean, drug traffickers favor transiting from Colombia through Venezuela.

The Colombia–Venezuela border in particular has lax controls on the Venezuelan side, and some members of the Venezuelan military are involved or support the trafficking of drugs.

Source: https://features.csis.org/tracking-...south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/

tl;dr - IMO as with most other US efforts in the multidecade 'War on Drugs' this is another act of political theater affecting primarily the middlemen who will eventually lose business to other routes if losses continue to mount.

 

[Giddierone]

If the "go-fast" boats are hauling drugs I wonder what fraction of the total trade they account for, given that the CSIS report mentioned above says shipping containers are another method used.
Also, given that this administration seems unable to identify lawful US citizens during ICE raids within its own borders I have no confidence that any of these boats/people pose a threat to America. They can of course disabuse me of such folly by providing some hard evidence that what they're doing is legal/necessary.

 

[Matt33]

CNN reports:

For a little under an hour — 41 minutes, according to a separate US official — Bradley and the rest of the US military command center discussed what to do as they watched the men struggle to overturn what was left of their boat...

Ultimately, Bradley told lawmakers, he ordered a second strike to destroy the remains of the vessel, killing the two survivors, on the grounds that it appeared that part of the vessel remained afloat because it still held cocaine, according to one of the sources. The survivors could hypothetically have floated to safety, been rescued, and carried on with trafficking the drugs, the logic went.

There is no logic, that is insane.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/12/04/politics/strike-lawmakers-briefing-radio-survivors

 

[Mendel]

There is no logic, that is insane.

honestly, no other country pretends to fight drug trafficing with air strikes.
Generally, they treat it like any other organized crime, and use police resources, with judicial oversight.

 

[FatPhil]

honestly, no other country pretends to fight drug trafficing with air strikes.
Generally, they treat it like any other organized crime, and use police resources, with judicial oversight.

and international cooperation.

For example:

Operation CARIBBE is Canada's contribution to U.S.-led enhanced counter-narcotics operations in the Caribbean Sea and the eastern Pacific Ocean. Under this operation, Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) ships and aircraft deploy to the region on a rotational basis to support the U.S. mission to suppress drug trafficking in international waters.
[...]
Over the past seventeen years, the CAF has contributed to the disruption or seizure of more than 123 metric tonnes of cocaine.

-- https://www.canada.ca/en/department...ons/current-operations/operation-caribbe.html