Shapeshifting Color-Changing Orbs: Plasmanoids?

[NightCat1337]

Hey everyone, its been a while and I went deep into the rabbit hole. I think this topic hasn't been explored here.

In April or May 2022 I witnessed this strange orb. I was sitting in a house on top of a hill that oversaw the city, I was coding another night away when around 2h30am I noticed a very bright light. At first it was white and I was wondering if someone had turned on a very bright light on top of a building. Then, it became red, increased in size then decreased in size, moved a bit randomly, change to green, and yellow.

As someone that has seen starlinks, satellites, comets, comets that exploded green on entry, drones, balloons, night lanterns... this was a first, So I recorded it. My phone eventually ran out of battery and I watched it for maybe 30-45 minutes before it went north. Next day, someone posted a video of it on social media, but 100 miles away. I brushed it off as some weird spherical drone with some strong light display - hey, maybe I got lucky and got to see some black project.

But then, I heard this story. from a cop that saw what seemed like what I saw in 2022:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXZ8xmBKyo&t=1074s


The footage matched what I saw and like him, I didn't tell anyone.

Then, you have 10 reports released to the public by the brazilian air force:

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/nacion...ilotos-brasileiros-sobre-ovnis-sao-revelados/

the documents are here: https://sian.an.gov.br/sianex/consulta/login.asp

To translate to english you can either use the LLM of your choice (such as chatgpt) or a browser extension that auto translates.

All of them describe what I had seen, which, ok, interesting and a little bit odd. Also matches what Cop saw and recorded.

Then, we have this video talking about it:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQxibEywwSo


The paper the video talks about is published in the Scientific Research Publishing (SCIRP), is widely regarded as a predatory publisher within the academic community. This designation stems from numerous concerns regarding its publishing practices, which have been documented by various scholars and institutions.

Now...I think in the video, the guy reading the dubious paper calls these being plasmanoids, hence the title. The research article talks about how these things could be "extraterrestrials", which I'm not sure I buy into, but the hypothesis that it could be a "life form" that is born in the atmosphere doesn't sound as far fetched as what it is out there around this topic. No evidence here, just speculation. This reminds me of the deep ocean, as our technology gets better we keep finding new ways of life. I think the latest ecosystem we've found is under the earth, or something along those lines.

Anyways, even with the disclaimer of the research paper, as in, as in, being published in a predatory journal it made me think of particle life:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vk7YvBYpOs


Which, ok, could potentially be seeing as the algorithm for biogenesis under heavy jumping to conclusion wishful thinking, but as anyone that has explored evolutionary algorithms will know: Its not necessarily about the algorithm itself, its about how complex the environment really is. The same thing applies to robotics, right? Any decent simulation, game engine or game developer (*cough* Mick West *cough*) will also know this, if you train a robotics AI and then test in the real world, it'll deeply suffer because of the complexity of the real world, so what usually is introduced is complexity so it can adapt to, but even then, that's bearly a scratch on the surface of the complexity of the real world. Hence why an AI robot trained in C++, Unity or Unreal Engine that walks perfectly won't be able to walk in the real world properly with proper complexity adaptive training and complex environments during the learning process.

So, potentially, the debunking of UAPs of these red orbs could be these so called Plamanoids. It also gives a nice bow tie end to the foo fighter observed during world war 2.

Now, I know this is WELL bellow the standard of the debunking and this is far more speculative, not very scientific, with dubious sources such as news nations, a research paper in the Beall's List of potential predatory publishers, some brazilian traffic control disclosures, evolutionary algorithm and particle life. But at this time, this is the best I could do.

The orb I saw could very well have been a drone or some black project (national or foreign) that was being tested. But somehow, I think it is possible, not proven, not solved. I'd like to think this is the most plausible answer, it would explain the behavior some reports have, as an atmospheric effect that we are starting to study.

Has anyone got a better hypothesis? Any debunking on any of the stories here? The video I have is 10h away and isn't the greatest, the one the cop provided is much better. The brazilian reports of airplane pilots matched what I saw. The article doesn't make a lot of sense, but its the best hypothesis on this I've seen that doesn't include some crazy break through or inter dimensional aliens. But I don't know. Anyone?

 

[NightCat1337]

@Mick West does this fit here or would you rather have in the rambling section?

 

[flarkey]

Has anyone got a better hypothesis? Any debunking on any of the stories here? The video I have is 10h away and isn't the greatest, the one the cop provided is much better. The brazilian reports of airplane pilots matched what I saw. The article doesn't make a lot of sense, but its the best hypothesis on this I've seen that doesn't include some crazy break through or inter dimensional aliens. But I don't know. Anyone?

The thing to do before proposing a new plasma based lifeform that is to check for prosaic objects that appear in the sky as a bright light such as planes & satellites.

Can you share the exact Date Time & Location (as accurately as possible) of the sighting...?

 

[NightCat1337]

"Robert Klein, who was working the night shift in April of 2022, described how the object's intense, color-changing light flooded inside his vehicle while he approached a local reservoir in Fairfield County at 11.45pm ET."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...olice-officer-ufo-mini-cooper-patrol-car.html

Since we only have the date and location, we can pinpoint the location and check for statelites and planes for every single day of that month.

 

[Mendel]

@Mick West does this fit here or would you rather have in the rambling section?

I'm not really sure which topic you want to set:
• do you want to debunk Robert Klein's sighting?
• do you want to debunk the 10 Brazilian sightings (you have not detailed them)?
• do you want to debunk your own sighting (you have not provided any data)?
• do you want to discuss the "plasmanoids" paper (you have not linked and quoted it)?

If it's either of these, you have material to discuss, so it's not a ramble, but you should clarify, and provide the missing material.

The paper the video talks about is published in the Scientific Research Publishing (SCIRP), is widely regarded as a predatory publisher within the academic community. This designation stems from numerous concerns regarding its publishing practices, which have been documented by various scholars and institutions.

Generally, this means we consider the paper self-published, i.e. it doesn't come with scientific weight. In evaluating, we'd consider the author's reputation, and the evidence for the claims.

Now...I think in the video, the guy reading the dubious paper calls these being plasmanoids, hence the title. The research article talks about how these things could be "extraterrestrials", which I'm not sure I buy into, but the hypothesis that it could be a "life form" that is born in the atmosphere doesn't sound as far fetched as what it is out there around this topic. No evidence here, just speculation. This reminds me of the deep ocean, as our technology gets better we keep finding new ways of life. I think the latest ecosystem we've found is under the earth, or something along those lines.

"No evidence here" does not bode well.
The last niche ecosystems are at the bottom of the ocean (e.g. hydrothermal vents), and they're hard to get to.
Air, however, is easy to get to, to see, to analyse; airborne creatures get sucked into jet engines all the time, and air is being sampled by metereologists and climate scientists all the time. It doesn't really compare to the "bottom of the ocean" situation.

 

[NightCat1337]

I'm not really sure which topic you want to set:
• do you want to debunk Robert Klein's sighting?
• do you want to debunk the 10 Brazilian sightings (you have not detailed them)?
• do you want to debunk your own sighting (you have not provided any data)?
• do you want to discuss the "plasmanoids" paper (you have not linked and quoted it)?

If it's either of these, you have material to discuss, so it's not a ramble, but you should clarify, and provide the missing material.


Generally, this means we consider the paper self-published, i.e. it doesn't come with scientific weight. In evaluating, we'd consider the author's reputation, and the evidence for the claims.

"No evidence here" does not bode well.
The last niche ecosystems are at the bottom of the ocean (e.g. hydrothermal vents), and they're hard to get to.
Air, however, is easy to get to, to see, to analyse; airborne creatures get sucked into jet engines all the time, and air is being sampled by metereologists and climate scientists all the time. It doesn't really compare to the "bottom of the ocean" situation.

I agree with everything you said as well, the intent is to look into the cop's story. It is the one with biggest chance to check for something tangible. We have a static location, an exact time, no date (as in just the month and year, no precise date), but we do have a video. So it seems like it is something we can work with.

 

[NightCat1337]

so on the interview the cop says "the by the water reservoir" but the problem is there are multiple reservoir there... I guess I'll watch more of it to see if at any point they name which one local reservoir in Fairfield County they are talking about

 

[Mendel]

I agree with everything you said as well, the intent is to look into the cop's story. It is the one with biggest chance to check for something tangible. We have a static location, an exact time, no date (as in just the month and year, no precise date), but we do have a video. So it seems like it is something we can work with.

Great!
See https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ne...klein-fairfield-county-ct-2022-orb-ufo.13792/

 

[Mendel]

Then, we have this video talking about it:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQxibEywwSo


The paper the video talks about is published in the Scientific Research Publishing (SCIRP), i

The video talks about the space tether mission STS-75, debunks for that are easy to find.

Article:

NASA mission video recordings of the tether experiment show what appear to be a number of bright objects swirling around the tether. Astronaut Franklin Chang-Diaz explained the bright spots seen near the tether were "a little bit of debris that kind of flies with us" that was illuminated by the sun.

Source: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/STS-75_incident

It also talks about "Immaculate Constellation", which is fiction, see https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ma...report-author-whistleblower.14170/post-343387 . Nobody who has actual evidence would include these.

I found a more recent paper from the same author, excerpts:

Article:

Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, Extraterrestrial Life, Plasmoids, Shape Shifters, Replicons, Thunderstorms, Lightning, Hallucinations, Aircraft Disasters, Ocean Sightings

Rhawn Gabriel Joseph¹*, Olivier Planchon², Christopher Impey³, Richard Armstrong⁴, Carl Gibson⁵, Rudolph Schild⁶
¹Astrobiology Research Center, California, USA.

These are established facts [1]-[3].

References
[1] Joseph, R. (2024) Video: Extraterrestrial Fourth Domain of Life: UFO, UAP, Plasma. Official NASA Films.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/383410701
[2] Joseph, R. (2012) Evidence for Extraterrestrial Extremophiles in the ThermoSphere. Structures Movement Patterns Indicative of Biology Observed 200 Miles above Earth. Journal of Cosmology, 25, 1-22.
[3] Joseph, R., Impey, C., Planchon, O., Gaudio, R.D., Safa, M.A., Sumanarathna, A.R., et al. (2024) Extraterrestrial Life in the Thermosphere: Plasmas, UAP, Pre-Life, Fourth State of Matter. Journal of Modern Physics, 15, 322-376. https://doi.org/10.4236/jmp.2024.153015

18. When Plasmoids Attacked Los Angeles
On the evening of February 24, 1942, [...]

Source: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=136922

"Astrobiology"???

If the only way to establish facts is by citing yourself, you haven't established much.

Bet you didn't see that one coming!

The only "evidence" is video from various sources that vaguely looks like microscopic life forms; these life forms supposedly exist at sea level in the atmosphere, and at orbital speed in space, which is a heck of an ecological niche, if you ask me. They should be able to exist everywhere, yet all this guy can show is low-detail photography someone else took.

Plasmoids are bunk.

(We did discuss them previously at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/pr...out-of-focus-point-of-light.13838/post-332785 .)

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Hey everyone, its been a while and I went deep into the rabbit hole. I think this topic hasn't been explored here.

In April or May 2022 I witnessed this strange orb. I was sitting in a house on top of a hill that oversaw the city, I was coding another night away when around 2h30am I noticed a very bright light. At first it was white and I was wondering if someone had turned on a very bright light on top of a building. Then, it became red, increased in size then decreased in size, moved a bit randomly, change to green, and yellow.

As someone that has seen starlinks, satellites, comets, comets that exploded green on entry, drones, balloons, night lanterns... this was a first, So I recorded it. My phone eventually ran out of battery and I watched it for maybe 30-45 minutes before it went north. Next day, someone posted a video of it on social media, but 100 miles away. I brushed it off as some weird spherical drone with some strong light display - hey, maybe I got lucky and got to see some black project.

I think the best choice is to talk about your sighting. And let's agree to treat it as your personal case and not try to put it in a box with other sightings yet.

 

[elvenwear]

I've just had a look at the link below from Hartford, Conneticut (as I wasn't sure of your location and not sure if you wanted to share.

Using the link below, at 02:30 between April 1 2022 and May 30 2022, there are no planets visible (except maybe Saturn but it's not that bright).

https://www.heavens-above.com/SkyChart.aspx?lat=41.7646&lng=-72.6909&loc=Hartford&alt=0&tz=EST

Sometimes when an object gets low on the horizon, it appears red. When the object turned red, could you correlate this to the object being lower in the sky? Also, are there any military bases nearby you? It could be a helicopter with a very bright search beam.

 

[Eburacum]

As someone that has seen starlinks, satellites, comets, comets that exploded green on entry,

Just a quick note to point out that comets do not 'explode green on entry'. Comets are very large, icy bodies several kilometres in radius that orbit the Sun, and are generally millions or tens of millions of miles away when you see them. They do not 'enter' the Earth's atmosphere, and do not explode. They are also motionless whenever you manage to see one (I've seen five, and they tend to last for several days at peak visibility).

I think you mean 'meteors', which are tiny grains of dust that do impact the Earth's atmosphere and often glow green, sometimes due to the excitation of oxygen in our atmosphere, and more rarely due to elements such as copper or nickel in their composition. Curiously enough, several meteor showers are remnants of old comets that broke apart many years ago, but these break-up events occur far from Earth.

You really don't want to be anywhere near if a real, actual comet enters the Earth's atmosphere - it would make a nuclear bomb look like a firecracker. But these events occur millions of years apart.

 

[JMartJr]

Looking at the video provided, it sure looks like the "movements" of the light are being caused by the camera moving around, making the object seem to move as compared to the tree branches. IF that is the case, you have a more-or-less stationary distant light, low to the horizon, scintillating and/or flashing. Likely explanations,would be a astronomical object or an aircraft flying towards the camera.

Using the link below, at 02:30 between April 1 2022 and May 30 2022, there are no planets visible (except maybe Saturn but it's not that bright).

Am I reading that chart wrong? It seems to show the Sun well above the horizon.

 

[John J.]

Edited to add: I somehow skated over @Eburacum's post #12 before posting this, apologies E.
I'll keep this here for the supporting refs.

As someone that has seen... comets that exploded green on entry

Hi NightCat1337,
Sorry to be pedantic but I think you might be mistaken about seeing comets exploding,

Comets haven't been observed entering Earth's atmosphere...

"First Evidence Found of a Comet Strike on Earth", National Geographic 13 October 2013, Andrew Fazekaz, link here.

Images in the ultraviolet of Earth's atmosphere from his instrument on an Earth-orbiting satellite led Louis Frank and his colleagues at the University of Iowa to speculate that small, house-size, comets are constantly entering the upper atmosphere. ...Following many attempts to prove or disprove the small-comet hypothesis by several researchers, the research community, other than Frank and his colleagues, ultimately concluded that the effects attributed to small comets were, instead, the byproducts of instrumental effects and analysis processes.

"Influx of Small Comets into Earth's Atmosphere", 08 December 2023, chapter in Scientific Debates in Space Science, Cummings, W.D., Lanzerotti, L.J., Springer, 2023, abstract https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-41598-2_4

 

[John J.]

...the hypothesis that it could be a "life form" that is born in the atmosphere doesn't sound as far fetched as what it is out there around this topic. No evidence here, just speculation. This reminds me of the deep ocean, as our technology gets better we keep finding new ways of life. I think the latest ecosystem we've found is under the earth, or something along those lines.

The idea of exotic creatures living in the upper atmosphere features in Robert A. Heinlein's short story "Goldfish Bowl" first published in Astounding Science Fiction, March 1942.
One of their manifestations (or perhaps tools) are

"Lagrange fireballs", spheres of energy which move in a seemingly intelligent manner...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish_Bowl
IIRC one of the characters toys with the idea that life started in the sea, moved onto land and then- unobserved by us- continued evolving into an aerial form with superior intelligence.

Going off-thread a bit:

I know "Goldfish Bowl" from the short story anthology Apeman, Spaceman (eds. Harry Harrison, Leon E. Stover, 1968, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apeman,_Spaceman), my favourite SF anthology ever. The stories all (supposedly) have an anthropological theme or aspect to them. Though they date from 1893 to 1966, the most dated- and only troubling- contents of the collection are the forward and (especially) an essay, "The Future Races of Man" contributed by Carleton S. Coon, an anthropologist now associated with "scientific racism" (Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carleton_S._Coon).

In one of those strange bits of serendipity or coincidence that occur in the field of unusual claims and experiences, Barney and Betty Hill- that Barney and Betty Hill- attended a talk on physical anthropology given by Coon (which might seem strange to us, Barney was African American and Betty white; they were involved in the civil rights movement).
It was while Coon was showing slides of people from different places around the world that Betty saw someone who resembled her abductors:

"Last night Barney and I went to Phillips Exeter Academy to hear Dr. Coon, anthropologist of Harvard, lecture on the 'Races of Man'. He showed several slides, but one of them looked like the people on the space ship.
Barney and I both recognized this at the same time!
...I believe she is of Mongolian background, with very distinct slant eyes. Her adaptation... ...causes the appearance of a large eye extending around to the side. Her nose is very small and flat to her face.
... It was surprising to actually see a picture which resembled the men so closely – much better than we could ever begin to do.""

Betty Hill, letter to "Walter", 20 October 1964, quoted by "Kitty" in Yankee Skeptic blog article "Who Invented Little Grays? Hollywood or the Hills?" 29 July 2013. The blog seems to be defunct and I couldn't find it via Wayback Machine; I originally quoted it here ("Origin of iconic alien face" thread).

Orbs -> "plasmanoids" -> "Lagrange Fireballs" in "Goldfish Bowl" -> Apeman, Spaceman -> Carleton Coon -> Betty Hill.
It's a bit like a UAP/ SF/ pseudoscience edition of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

 

[Ann K]

@NightCat1337
"Plasma" events, either on earth's surface ("plasmoids" have been suggested as causing the phenomenon known as ball lightning) or in the upper atmosphere (the "sprites" that can occur high above large thunderstorms (video below), or the even higher sun-storm-caused aurorae) have had limited study, in large part due to the fact that they are transient and short-lived manifestations of the effects of electrical forces in our atmosphere.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGPQ5kzJ9Tg


But you describe what appears to be a stable and long-lived appearance, and it seems more likely to me that you should be looking at one of the more common things that have been reported as an explanation. Bear in mind that if you're viewing something through a lot of atmosphere (that is, anything that seems to be fairly close to the horizon, no matter how far away it really is), then you'll see the distortions and color changes of light refracted by the various changes in density caused by temperature differences in our atmosphere. The word "schlieren" is used to describe, for example, the apparent motion of things viewed through the heat rising from a campfire. The same thing can cause twinkling stars, or apparent color changes of planets (far away) or night-time construction lighting (quite close).

 

[yoshy]

@NightCat1337
"Plasma" events, either on earth's surface ("plasmoids" have been suggested as causing the phenomenon known as ball lightning) or in the upper atmosphere (the "sprites" that can occur high above large thunderstorms (video below), or the even higher sun-storm-caused aurorae) have had limited study, in large part due to the fact that they are transient and short-lived manifestations of the effects of electrical forces in our atmosphere.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGPQ5kzJ9Tg


But you describe what appears to be a stable and long-lived appearance, and it seems more likely to me that you should be looking at one of the more common things that have been reported as an explanation. Bear in mind that if you're viewing something through a lot of atmosphere (that is, anything that seems to be fairly close to the horizon, no matter how far away it really is), then you'll see the distortions and color changes of light refracted by the various changes in density caused by temperature differences in our atmosphere. The word "schlieren" is used to describe, for example, the apparent motion of things viewed through the heat rising from a campfire. The same thing can cause twinkling stars, or apparent color changes of planets (far away) or night-time construction lighting (quite close).

The persistence reminds me of the Hessdalen_lights.

The Hessdalen lights are unidentified lights which have been observed in a 12-kilometre-long (7.5 mi) stretch of the Hessdalen valley in rural central Norway periodically since at least the 1930s.[1]​

One proposed explanation is plasma, but there are other hypotheses too.

One hypothesis put forward in 2010 suggests that the lights are formed by a cluster of macroscopic Coulomb crystals in a plasma produced by the ionization of air and dust by alpha particles during radon decay in the dusty atmosphere. Several physical properties including oscillation, geometric structure, and light spectrum, observed in the Hessdalen lights might be explained through a dust plasma model.[12]​ Radon decay produces alpha particles (responsible by helium emissions in HL spectrum) and radioactive elements such as polonium. In 2004, physicist Massimo Teodorani[13]​ showed an occurrence where a higher level of radioactivity on rocks was detected near the area where a large light ball was reported. Computer simulations show that dust immersed in ionized gas can organize itself into double helixes like some occurrences of the Hessdalen lights; dusty plasmas may also form in this structure.[14]​

 

[NorCal Dave]

so on the interview the cop says "the by the water reservoir" but the problem is there are multiple reservoir there... I guess I'll watch more of it to see if at any point they name which one local reservoir in Fairfield County they are talking about

Just to reiterate what @Mendel posted above. This sighting has been looked into on this forum extensively. Including identifying the likely spot the sighting occurred at, as @deirdre literally drove along the actual reservoir.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ne...klein-fairfield-county-ct-2022-orb-ufo.13792/

 

[Mendel]

Looking at the video provided, it sure looks like the "movements" of the light are being caused by the camera moving around, making the object seem to move as compared to the tree branches. IF that is the case, you have a more-or-less stationary distant light, low to the horizon, scintillating and/or flashing. Likely explanations,would be a astronomical object or an aircraft flying towards the camera.

Which of the 3 videos, and what time?

 

[Ann K]

The persistence reminds me of the Hessdalen_lights.

Here's an article about them, but I have not studied them and have insufficient information to critique this.

Hovering above a valley in central Norway, the presence of strange balls of lights has surprised scientists for years. It is known as Hessdalen Phenomenon, wherein the flashing orbs is considered to be as large as cars having drawn the attention from ufologist.

However, scientists now consider that the unusual lights could have be formed by natural battery which could be buried deep beneath the ground, and created by metallic minerals reacting with sulphurous river running through it. Should the theory be proved to be true, it could open up new way of storing energy.

https://www.elixirofknowledge.com/2015/11/the-hessdalen-lights.html

However an image posted with this article, although not well explained, would seem to suggest that this most-published photo of the lights may be due to camera artifacts, if "echo" in this case means "internal reflection", as it appears to do with the "moon echo" below the moon. Or else "echo distance" refers to the left-to-right camera motion, with pauses at each end of the traverse showing brighter spots.

 

[JMartJr]

Which of the 3 videos, and what time?

Sorry, the first one

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXZ8xmBKyo&t=1074s, passim where the light in the sky is shown. My working interpretation was that this is the one primarily under discussion.

 

[yoshy]

Here's an article about them, but I have not studied them and have insufficient information to critique this.

Hovering above a valley in central Norway, the presence of strange balls of lights has surprised scientists for years. It is known as Hessdalen Phenomenon, wherein the flashing orbs is considered to be as large as cars having drawn the attention from ufologist.

However, scientists now consider that the unusual lights could have be formed by natural battery which could be buried deep beneath the ground, and created by metallic minerals reacting with sulphurous river running through it. Should the theory be proved to be true, it could open up new way of storing energy.

https://www.elixirofknowledge.com/2015/11/the-hessdalen-lights.html

However an image posted with this article, although not well explained, would seem to suggest that this most-published photo of the lights may be due to camera artifacts, if "echo" in this case means "internal reflection", as it appears to do with the "moon echo" below the moon. Or else "echo distance" refers to the left-to-right camera motion, with pauses at each end of the traverse showing brighter spots.

My memory was definitely exaggerating how well documented the Hessdalen Lights are. I thought they had been photographed and even recorded many times by now, but looking back into it, there's not much photo or video evidence unfortunately.

Here's one of the few videos capturing something. Their website is a bit difficult to navigate, and I'm not sure how I even ended up with that link anymore lol. (Their old website is peak early 2000s .) I used the internet archive for that video because the link on their website for it is dead and returns a 404. Even that video is frustrating since they cut out 10 seconds in the middle for no apparent reason. OP's description seemed to match up well with the description of the Hessdalen Lights, but I can't find any good photos or videos demonstrating that

 

[Mauro]

My memory was definitely exaggerating how well documented the Hessdalen Lights are. I thought they had been photographed and even recorded many times by now, but looking back into it, there's not much photo or video evidence unfortunately.

For what it's worth, I've never been convinced there's anything substantial behind Hessdalen lights.

 

[Ann K]

Here's one of the few videos capturing something.

Nope, I can't view that on my iPad. But if I look up videos on the phenomenon, they seem to be split pretty evenly between merely talking heads discussing still photos (usually the one corresponding to the image I posted), things that look like CGI, and things that look like the familiar curtains of aurorae. None of the ones I sampled seem to be live shots.

 

[FatPhil]

Even that video is frustrating since they cut out 10 seconds in the middle for no apparent reason.

For no *given* reason. I'd suggest the reason that appears to me as most simply explaining the removal of a segment is that the removed part reveals the mundanity of what they're reporting. If so, then the video flips from "frustrating" to "revealing".

 

[Eburacum]

So I recorded it. My phone eventually ran out of battery and I watched it for maybe 30-45 minutes before it went north. Next day, someone posted a video of it on social media, but 100 miles away

If we could discuss your own sighting for a moment, do you still have the clip you recorded? Or a link to the video posted by the other witness?

 

[Fin]

I animated the Robert Klein sighting. Having spoken to him in detail while working to recreate what he described, you may not be surprised to hear that I think his "close encounter" is more complex than just attributing everything to what the video he filmed at the end of the encounter appears consistent with: A distant mundane object such as an oncoming aircraft.

All that is just to say, Robert's video alone does very much resemble many other videos I've seen where it's later revealed unambiguously that it was indeed an oncoming aircraft. I don't think we can definitively say that's what Roberts video actually shows but I mention it because what you describe, NightCat, and the fact you compare it to Robert's video, does have me leaning towards the possibility that you saw an oncoming aircraft. Did it do anything that would rule that out? When you say the object "increased in size then decreased in size", by how much? How big was it to start with? The size of a pea held at arms length? Smaller? Much bigger?

I've noticed that distant aircraft to the naked eye and on camera might appear to pulse slightly, but not by much. Maybe 10% increase in apparent size. But if with your naked eye you saw, for example, a distant light that appeared to more than double in size, then that would raise my eyebrows (although it could still have a perfectly mundane cause). The more details you can give us the better.

 

[Mendel]

I animated the Robert Klein sighting.

It'd be great if you could put a short post describing that animation on https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ne...klein-fairfield-county-ct-2022-orb-ufo.13792/ .

 

[Fin]

It'd be great if you could put a short post describing that animation on https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ne...klein-fairfield-county-ct-2022-orb-ufo.13792/ .

The animation is included in the clips from NewsNation

 

[NightCat1337]

Update:

Most likely what I saw and also what the cop saw. Advanced drones seems to be the best explanation.

I had a bit more time to think through Officer Klein's sighting and did some more digging. Found some interesting circumstantial information that could provide leads for further discussion/investigation. After reviewing Klein's statements and the additional information provided by the investigator @Throwaway , a law enforcement drone engaged in a specific investigation seems quite plausible. Before getting into the specifics of that case it might be useful to look at the context of law enforcement drone use at that time.

In early 2022 there was a nationwide push for law-enforcement agencies to acquire more drones. There was a new generation of drones designed for law enforcement hitting the market that were larger and had a broader range of capabilities, especially bright searchlights for nighttime search and rescue. More specifically, we know at this time the Danbury fire department (the closest city to Saugutuk Reservoir) was ahead of the curve and already in possession of two advanced drones that Danbury police were known to borrowed occasionally, especially for missing persons operations. Hartford, the city to the south (northeast) had them in April 2022 as well. The following are a few relevant excerpts from a Fairfield County newspaper. Note the date of publication, April 23, 2022




With this context in mind, let's look at the missing persons case of Carlos Reyes. While not conclusive there are a couple circumstantial factors which are worthy of further investigation. Heres a map with relevant places highlighted
View attachment 75349

Carlos Reyes Missing Person Timeline
- March 28, 2022: Carlos Reyes is last seen by his family around 11 p.m. in Danbury CT.
- March 29, 2022: Reyes's car is found engulfed in flames in Brewster, New York, just west of Danbury across the state border.
- Early April 2022: Within two weeks, the FBI takes over the investigation due to Danbury Police's jurisdiction limitations and the Reyes' likely connection narcotics trafficking.
- April 7, 2022: Police are seen searching bodies of water north of Danbury in connection with Reyes' missing persons case. Later in April FBI and other local agencies are seen again searching for Reyes' body in rivers up to 50 miles north of Danbury and 80miles northeast in Massachusetts (distances approximated)
- April 14, 2022: Police execute a search warrant at a home in Newtown, Connecticut of prime suspect Christopher Lemke, someone believed to be involved (he's relevant for more than just this).
- May 3–6, 2022: The FBI is observed leading a multi-agency search in Sheffield, Massachusetts, focusing on another remote river and bodies of water. Divers, excavators, and other heavy machinery were involved, but no body was found.

- Spring 2024: Danbury Police still refuse to answer any questions about the search for Reyes. The FBI also explicitly denied a FOIA request filed this past spring requesting information about the search. Reyes was never found and given the possibility of connection to organized crime, they could be protecting an informant as the investigation continues

https://namus.nij.ojp.gov/case/MP92430
https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/carlos-reyes-santiago-danbury-doordash-missing-17788233.php
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/kidna...sh-driver-whose-car-was-found-burning-police/
https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/carlos-reyes-danbury-ct-disappearance-19362963.php


Relevance to Officer Klein's UAP Sighting
1. Saugatuck Reservoir is only ~10 miles from Reyes' last know location. It's also surrounded by large nature reserves, Devil's Den Nature Preserve and Huntington State Park, that were likely searched for Reyes. The law enforcement drones, which I will go into further details below, have both spotlights and infrared so searching at night is not only possible but the heat signature of someone in the woods is easier to see at night. Infrared vs visible spotlight can easily be toggled by the operator.

2. Danbury Police already had access to 2 powerful drones they used for missing persons cases. Additionally, Hartford Police to the south (northeast) might have provided their own SAR drones to assist in the search as well.

3. The FBI likely had their own drones as well. Since Reyes was never found nor confirmed dead it could be protocol to continue searching far and wide, day and night for signs of life until status confirmed or search called off. Communication with local county police might have been minimal or non-existent given the scope of the search and possible narcotics trafficking connections.

4. During a search of a river north of Danbury in early April 2022, an anonymous law enforcement source said they were checking rivers and bodies of water "remote enough" that someone could have used it to dump a body. It's reasonable to assume they searched most bodies of water in Fairfield County and Saugatuk is likely remote enough for it to have been considered/searched

5. Chris Lemke, the prime suspect mentioned above, is interesting for 2 reasons. First, the search on April 7th was directly related to Lemke who law enforcement believed was directly involved. Secondly, on March 26, two days before Reyes disappeared, Lemke had stolen a car in Danbury, disappeared for 24hrs, then turned up in Bethel March 27 where he set that car on fire. Bethel is a town in between Danbury and the Saugatuk Reservoir (5~6 miles away). It's speculation on my part, but if Lemke was killed Reyes for drug trafficking related reasons, it's possible he used the other stolen car found it Bethel to similarly dispose of a different drug dealer. Burning the car could be his modus operandi for getting rid of evidence. The location of this first burning car is near the reservoir making it even more probable the FBI would be searching the water/shorelines for evidence/bodies related to that crime too

6. The drones available to law enforcement in April 2022 seem to align with a few elements of Officer Klein's sighting. He said in 25 years he never saw something like it, which would make perfect sense since these SAR drones with very bright lights were fairly new on the market (especially the infrared/searchlight capabilities). Additionally, Officer Klein referred to a distinctive humming noise from the UAP. This aligns more with a drone than a helicopter. It also would explain why the flight wasn't on Flightradar (allegedly)

7. FBI and Danbury police still refuse to comment on any details regarding what we can reasonably assume was an extensive search for Reyes. One would hope at some point they will be compelled to release information after the case is resolved or sufficient time has past. The fact they won't reveal any details suggests they wouldn't confirm or deny Officer Klein's sighting either way. Incidentally, I'm wondering if Officer Klein refusing to say why and when he was at the reservoir is because he had been tasked with assisting in some aspect of the same confidential case.

8. I'm assuming FBI investigations, especially regarding narcotics trafficking, operate on a strictly need to know basis for security purposes. Local county police officers would likely not be privy to what's going on behind the scenes unless absolutely required? This could explain why Officer Klein was not informed about expected drone searches in his jurisdiction.

9. Alternatively, CT law requires law enforcement to obtain search warrants to fly over private property (if I understand it correctly — not sure about fbi jurisdiction). If Danbury police, for example, had failed to do that during a SAR flight it would be expected they are staying tight-lipped to avoid incrimination. From the article above: "If a cop can go [somewhere]without a search warrant then your drone could see it; if a cop would need a search warrant to enter that premises then your drone would need a search warrant to look."

Available SAR Drones in April 2022
The following is a video from Steel City Drones released Mar 6, 2022. It's a drone company that sells to and trains law enforcement agencies across America. The drones have a number of sensors, including infrared to search for people at night. However, they also have very bright spotlights that can be used for further identification in the visible light spectrum. Here is the owner showing off how bright the SAR floodlights are on one of the law enforcement drones:

View attachment 75351
youtu. be/X_TyiaWSsfw?feature=shared

In addition, here's another law enforcement related channel showing another model of SAR searchlight setup available at the time. Same point mentioned about how bright the search light is. It could definitely explain Officer Klein's shock and difficulty seeing while getting blasted unexpectedly by a drone setup like these.

View attachment 75352

View attachment 75353
youtu. be/seHVwvMzQmo?feature=shared

A few further observations regarding drones:
The Steel City Drones guy mentioned flexibility regarding navigation lights. It sounded like he gets many different requests for strobes, and/or red and green navigation lights from different agencies. My interpretation was these were flexible choices for law enforcement depending on their needs. For example, I could certainly imagine the FBI can fly with whatever colour schemes and strobing best suited for their needs (especially more stealth drones) with less flashing.

That said, in officer Klein's video the pulsating could be explained by strobing lights. Here we see a pulsating effect from the strobe light on this drone:

View attachment 75354

Lastly, drones at night with bright lights produce a very surreal and otherworldly effect in general. If I was not expecting a drone to blast me with light and fly off in a remote area at night I don't know how my brain would interpret it. Note the effect on speed perception in the following video when flying close to the treetops. It could help explain Officer Klein's perception of rapid movement. If it was a SAR drone checking the shoreline for bodies/evidence flying close to the treetops, it would produce a greater perception of speed given the shadows moving along the ground much faster than the drone itself

View attachment 75355

youtu. be/YhkTVIKktho?feature=shared

Additional Missing Persons Case
It's worth mentioning there was another missing person's case in April 2022. A woman by the name of Dawn Cleamins was reported missing April 9, 2022 by Redding CT Police. Redding is only a couple miles from the reservoir. The police later reported she was found April 11 but there's no further information. It would be interesting to know if drones were used during her search and if so where exactly they were deployed. For this incident, it seems much less probable because I suspect neighbouring counties would immediately be alerted to a missing person situation. https://krcrtv.com/news/local/redding-police-looking-for-missing-woman-04-11-2022

Outstanding Questions
1. Would a narrower FOIA request to the FBI specifying disclosure of SAR drone track logs specifically over Saugutuk Reservoir in April 2022 be more likely to succeed?
2. Are any locals here who might ask Danbury Fire and Police if they were involved in any drone SAR missions April 2022? Perhaps the Fire Department is not bound by as much confidentiality. The Danbury Fire Department have a video tour of their fire hall on YouTube and it's clear the crew loves to mess around and have fun. Prank culture is huge in first responder cultures so it's possible someone was intentionally messing with Klein as well.
3. @Throwaway can you explain why we haven't been able to ascertain the exact date and location of Officer Klein's sighting? It's fine if he's not at liberty to say but it would really help narrow things down

Obviously nothing here is conclusive but I hope the circumstantial evidence is at least interesting and/or useful enough for further leads. The use of SAR drones might also explain Diane's sighting behind the Redding community centre.

TLDR: The FBI and other police agencies were conducting searches in waterways across CT for the body of a missing person suspected of narcotics trafficking. Reyes was last seen less than 10 miles from the Saugutuk Reservoir and an extensive search was conducted by the FBI over the month of April into early May 2022. Unfortunately both Danbury PD and the FBI are refusing to release any information as the investigation is ongoing

*edit: removed explicit claims about gang connections. It only says he is thought to have been involved in narcotics trafficking when he went missing

@Fin could you take a look at this since you spoke to the cop and see if this is a more likely result?

link to the original post: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ne...ield-county-ct-2022-orb-ufo.13792/post-332185

 

[John J.]

Most likely what I saw and also what the cop saw. Advanced drones seems to be the best explanation.

I think you should be commended for finding a possible "down-to-Earth" explanation for your own unusual experience.

It took me many years to accept that something I (partly) witnessed had a prosaic (well, somewhat unusual) explanation, put forward just a few days after the event by someone more familiar with the location than I was. I later realised my perceptions/ understanding had been influenced by the reactions of others nearby at the time (something that doesn't apply in your case).

Drones exist and can have very diverse lighting arrangements, and are sometimes misidentified. They're sometimes seen where they might not be expected by witnesses. The evidence is not so strong for plasmanoids.

 

[Fin]

Of course, a drone with a spotlight is "more likely" than an anomalous pulsating lava-orb, but that does require us to ignore some pretty distinct parts of Klein's quite unambiguous testimony. We can take the video in a vacuum, at which point others are much better able to analyse it than me. My part was just to listen closely to his full testimony and faithfully recreate what he described. I simplified the road layout significantly (no curves) to streamline the process due to time constraints, but with regards to the orb (the unambiguous lava-like appearance, the pulsing, the changing colours), he was very happy with the accuracy of the resulting animation.

Some additional details from my discussion with him:
- The spotlight only lit up the interior of his car. Not the road in front of him. A very focused beam of light.
From our discussion: Klein "to me it was kind of bizarre because I was like, well how the hell did it not light up the road. It was almost like it was just in my car. That's what caught my attention, because I could see out the front of the window.. You'd think a spotlight would light up the area around the car but it really didn't"
- The spotlight aimed at him was pale orange.
- He describes the orb as approximately 20ft away from his car horizontally & 50-60ft up in the air, at treetop height.
- The orb changes colours. Orange, red, white & green, repeating in that order.
- He watched the orb hovering near his car for about 30 seconds before he flashed his torch at it and it moved away. I condensed that period of time for the sake of the presentation, since its impractical to expect viewers (and platforms like NewsNation) to watch the stationary orb for 30 seconds waiting for the next thing to happen (NewsNation would have just cut that out anyway).
- Klein flashed his own (car) spotlight at the object and that's when it instantly teleported to the other side of the reservoir. Klein: "I didn't expect it to do that. That really floored me". I initially had it zooming across the reservoir at high speed over the course of just under half a second but Robert corrected me saying it was "instant. It was here then it was there".
- It made a low humming noise, similar to the sound effect I used in the animation but that is a rough approximation we didn't have an opportunity to fine-tune.

Beyond that, I don't want to put words into Roberts mouth or add to the "game of telephone" effect which we all know can make witness testimony even less useful than when its coming from the horses mouth. Maybe you should try and contact Robert if you want more detail. Ultimately, although I'm somewhat of a UFO witness advocate in that I take their accounts seriously and animate them to better illustrate their story, I think its unwise of me to fight their corner for them. I wasn't there. I don't know what really happened.

Edited to add: If you want to know what I think about yours compared to Roberts, I think Robert unambiguously describes several anomalous features whereas nothing about your description sounds even slightly anomalous. If Robert's description is accurate, something bizarre/anomalous happened, unlikely though that may be. If your description is accurate, nothing anomalous appears to have taken place. I'd put his testimony in the category of maybe explainable, maybe legitimately anomalous. I'd put yours in the category of pretty easily explainable

 

[purpleivan]

- The spotlight only lit up the interior of his car. Not the road in front of him. A very focused beam of light.
From our discussion: Klein "to me it was kind of bizarre because I was like, well how the hell did it not light up the road. It was almost like it was just in my car. That's what caught my attention, because I could see out the front of the window.. You'd think a spotlight would light up the area around the car but it really didn't"

Regarding the spotlight being reported to have lit up the car interior and not the road ahead, the road in front of the car would have been illuminated by the headlights, so would have been much brighter than the dark interior of the car, only lit by the dashboard display. This would make the illumnation of the interior, much more noticable that that of the road.

 

[Eburacum]

Of course, a drone with a spotlight is "more likely" than an anomalous pulsating lava-orb, but that does require us to ignore some pretty distinct parts of Klein's quite unambiguous testimony. We can take the video in a vacuum, at which point others are much better able to analyse it than me.

The video is the best evidence we have; the oral testimony could be mistaken for several different reasons, so we should consider the video first.

This video doesn't seem to resemble the oral testimony very closely; did the witness stop filming before it got interesting, or did he only catch the last few moments as the phenomenon was moving away?

 

[Fin]

did the witness stop filming before it got interesting, or did he only catch the last few moments as the phenomenon was moving away?

"...at this point I was perplexed and confused at what I was looking at because I'd never in 25 years working as a police officer encountered anything like this, and when I came to I took my spotlight and shined the light at it and as soon as I hit it with my spotlight it instantaneously moved across the body of water and that's when I sort of snapped out of it and took out my camera and started recording and taking pictures."


Source: https://youtu.be/9Ks_xYdel28?t=225

 

[JMartJr]

The video is the best evidence we have; the oral testimony could be mistaken for several different reasons, so we should consider the video first.

This video doesn't seem to resemble the oral testimony very closely; did the witness stop filming before it got interesting, or did he only catch the last few moments as the phenomenon was moving away?

Looking across multiple cases over multiple years, the regularity with which the video does not capture the bit where, in the testimony, something truly inexplicable happens is striking.

The simplest explanation for this is that nothing truly inexplicable happens in these cases, physics is not defied, magic doesn't manifest, but human perception and memory are just unreliable.

 

[Eburacum]

So the video clip only shows the very end of the encounter; interesting.

 

[NightCat1337]

"...at this point I was perplexed and confused at what I was looking at because I'd never in 25 years working as a police officer encountered anything like this, and when I came to I took my spotlight and shined the light at it and as soon as I hit it with my spotlight it instantaneously moved across the body of water and that's when I sort of snapped out of it and took out my camera and started recording and taking pictures."


Source: https://youtu.be/9Ks_xYdel28?t=225

Maybe what he saw was a parallax?

> "I'd put his testimony in the category of maybe explainable, maybe legitimately anomalous. I'd put yours in the category of pretty easily explainable"

I would disagree, it seemed to move instantaneous for me too, sure I didn't see it up close, and it looked more like a flare that lasted over 45 minutes... now, considering some drones can reach up to 298.47 mph (480.23 km/h), if this thing was flashing at your face, turns off all its lights and then moves to the side... yeah, I can see how someone might give the report the cop gave..

Also, in the explanation from Minus0 I think its pretty much case closed, everything fits... he was never specific of where he was as he was probably out of police district, the nearby police department was using advanced drones in the area... and he probably saw one of those...

but I don't know, I'm open minded on treating hypothesis as such, some are just more convincing then others...

 

[Eburacum]

Two aspects of this account make the observations somewhat unreliable. Firstly the witness was in a car for most, or all of the sighting; this restricts visibility, and if the witness is driving at the time they can only commit a fraction of their attention on the phenomenon. Observing from a moving car can also cause parallax issues, and mean that the phenomenon (whatever it is) might be only intermittently visible because of trees or other features in the external environment. Observing from a car reduces the accuracy of any sighting by certain amount, which may be a significant fraction.

Being inside a car would also change the perceived sound associated with the phenomenon; did he ever get out of the car at any point?

Secondly the witness was distracted using various bits of technology during the sighting; he tried to signal to the phenomenon using the car's spotlight, which must have taken some of his attention off the sighting; secondly, when this attempt to make contact seems to have failed, he started filming it with his camera.

These interruptions to his attention focus reduced the accuracy of his observations, although he probably filled the gaps in his observations subconsciously with conjecture which later became conflated with the real observations, and he remembers this event as a continuous stream of images, whereas the sighting was inevitably broken up by distractions of various kinds.

 

[Eburacum]

One way to explain the apparent instant teleportation across the lake is that there were two different objects/phenomena, and his attention was drawn to each in turn. Certainly the object/phenomenon in the film clip doesn't resemble the description of the phenomenon in the first part of the sighting very closely. This could have been two separate drones, both equipped with bright searchlights; or a helicopter and a drone, or two helicopters, or a helicopter/drone and a distant aircraft, and so on.

-----
I would take the opportunity to advise against signalling to these phenomena; if I wear my UFO believer's hat for a moment, these objects have never proved themselves particularly friendly or open to communication; signalling to them might be like trying to communicate with a bear in the forest, or with a tiger. Or if they are police drones, military drones or drones operated by criminals, signalling to them might draw their attention in ways that could be unpredictable.