Unidentified Objects/Balloons Intercepted by US aircraft

what is the point of this hobby?
A point and a hobby may not always be concepts involved with one another. I knew a guy who collected sand from all over the world. Not all hobbys make as much logical sense as mine.

Regards,
63 year old mine whi flies giant kites
 
what is the point of this hobby?
Article:
Amateur Radio (ham radio) is a popular hobby and service that brings people, electronics and communication together. People use ham radio to talk across town, around the world, or even into space, all without the Internet or cell phones. It's fun, social, educational, and can be a lifeline during times of need.

That picoballoon is carrying an amateur radio transmitter.
 
So it is becoming to look like the two other small objects could be (at least one of) those hobby balloons?

I find it histerically funny that one hand we have this simple, mundane balloon, and on the other hand we have the Reddit ufo community that is going completely bezirk that even these claims are made like "Roswell 2.0" or "Trains being derailed on purpose to disable UAP"

I think this is why the ufo community is not taken seriously, it is their own bloody fault.
 
So it is becoming to look like the two other small objects could be (at least one of) those hobby balloons?

I find it histerically funny that one hand we have this simple, mundane balloon, and on the other hand we have the Reddit ufo community that is going completely bezirk that even these claims are made like "Roswell 2.0" or "Trains being derailed on purpose to disable UAP"

I think this is why the ufo community is not taken seriously, it is their own bloody fault.

An extremely sketchy anonymous source on 4chan, claiming to be Air National Guard stationed at Selfridge Air Base, says the "octagonal", "size of a small car" object with "strings hanging down" was an ice fishing tent that had become lofted by strong winds.



To be taken with an extremely large amount of salt of course. I don't know how plausible it is that a tent could reach 20k feet, but the physical description seems to match up.

Archive link to the 4chan thread, consider NSFW and proceed at own risk, obviously: https://archive.is/G166F (user ID /JD8w6Rs)
An airborne ice shanty was the object they shot at. It even said "clam" on the side of it.

It came off Saginaw Bay while they were up chasing floating trash

There's pics and even one of the pilots knew what it was. Ordered to shoot it anyways.

Pilot wasn't from my base but our boys got eyes on it. Sounds weird but this isn't a first.
 
63 year old mine whi flies giant kites
good point. i guess your kite can let go and sucked into plane engines and/or waste millions of dollars each year as militaries try to figure out what your ufo is too. Never thought of that.
 
I don't know how plausible it is that a tent could reach 20k feet, but the physical description seems to match up.
Seems unlikely, but a while ago I posted a link to a video of what looked like a children's paddling pool blowing in the wind at least 100 feet up. Turbulent winds would produce a kind of 'random walk' motion, so it would be a matter of probability how high an object might get to.
(Sorry, I couldn't find my earlier post. Probably more than a year ago.)
 
An extremely sketchy anonymous source on 4chan, claiming to be Air National Guard stationed at Selfridge Air Base, says the "octagonal", "size of a small car" object with "strings hanging down" was an ice fishing tent that had become lofted by strong winds.
if I had a 4chan account, I might now write a story of how I went ice fishing with the boys and a generator, as you do, how Bob got drunk and filled the tent with hydrogen generated via electrolysis, set it aloft and shot at it hoping it would explode, but it didn't and we never saw it again—you know, typical Alaskan redneck weekend.
 
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This particular balloon was "lost" before:
Article: Sixth Circumnavigation around the World on January 31st 2023, after 112 days 22 hours.

Shortly after reporting the 5th circumnavigation after almost 77 days days of flight, Pico Balloon K9YO was declared missing in action. On January 26th 2023 after 109 days of flight, K9YO, reported then flew north of the Day/Night Change Line and went missing again. Pico Balloon K9YO started regular reporting on January 30th 2023. Source: https://nibbb.org/links-to-locate-and-track/
Article:
For now we are calling Pico Balloon K9YO Missing in Action.
 
he siad
"It even said "clam" on the side of it."

we have the audio of the pilots they couldnt even tell what shape or color it was but they could read that tiny "clam" logo?

Wouldn't have to say "CALM" on it. Shiftpod is the original and most common type of those tents. Instead of a logo, their silver skin identifies them:


They could even account for a whole invasion:

 
we have the audio of the pilots they couldnt even tell what shape or color it was but they could read that tiny "clam" logo?
Heres the picture:
Wouldn't have to say "CALM" on it. Shiftpod is the original and most common type of those tents. Instead of a logo, their silver skin identifies them:
As you can see, the shape would change depending on the angle of view. And a reflective skin would mean that portions of it could be reflecting the color of the sky, confusing the viewer even more.
 
Out of curiosity I tried to find out how much these 'ice shanty' things weigh. I started by looking on Amazon (UK). I found several items described as 'portable' and weighing about 13 or 14 kilos. I didn't see the 'Clam' brand listed on Amazon, but I did find a separate listing for the Clam C-360 Portable model on Ebay, described as weighing 36 pounds (= 16.3 kilos). This seems rather heavy to be lifted very far by the wind. For comparison, children's paddling pools (see my post #48 above) can weigh less than a kilo.

Searching Google generally for 'ice shanty weight', I got various results suggesting much higher weights, even over 100 kilos, but I think these are for more substantial heavy-duty shacks, not intended to be portable.
 
Out of curiosity I tried to find out how much these 'ice shanty' things weigh. I started by looking on Amazon (UK). I found several items described as 'portable' and weighing about 13 or 14 kilos. I didn't see the 'Clam' brand listed on Amazon, but I did find a separate listing for the Clam C-360 Portable model on Ebay, described as weighing 36 pounds (= 16.3 kilos). This seems rather heavy to be lifted very far by the wind. For comparison, children's paddling pools (see my post #48 above) can weigh less than a kilo.

Searching Google generally for 'ice shanty weight', I got various results suggesting much higher weights, even over 100 kilos, but I think these are for more substantial heavy-duty shacks, not intended to be portable.
From the photos above, these appear to be used in desert sunshine rather than ice fishing, and can find ads for a number of different models. Should we assume one intended for ice fishing to be more heavily insulated, therefore heavier in weight, than a different model for summer use?
 
From the photos above, these appear to be used in desert sunshine rather than ice fishing, and can find ads for a number of different models. Should we assume one intended for ice fishing to be more heavily insulated, therefore heavier in weight, than a different model for summer use?
The guy that developed the ShiftPod, Christian Weber, was a Burningman regular, so the desert thing was natural. They are supposed to work well in cold environments too but I don't know if anyone uses them for ice fishing. Could just be someone camping in the cold.


1676751839492.png
https://shiftpod.com/shiftpod/about-u

However, even the smallest units clock in at 33 lbs. so I doubt ones flying around in the upper atmosphere. Still, it does look a bit like what is talked about.


1676751664466.png
https://shiftpod.com/shiftpod/shelter/shiftpodiii-mini
 
Possibly useful for assessing the blowing-in-the-wind hypothesis, whether the object is an ice shanty, a piece of plastic, or whatever, this table from the University of Sussex (England) shows the force against a flat surface of winds at various speeds. E.g. for a wind of 100 kmph, the force against a surface of 1 square meter would be about 75 kg. Of course, the wind would not be blowing consistently upwards against the bottom of the object. Still, it does seem that a plausibly strong wind could lift an object of the size and weight of a portable 'shanty' against the downward force of gravity.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/weatherstation/technical/Windforce.html
 
Out of curiosity I tried to find out how much these 'ice shanty' things weigh. I started by looking on Amazon (UK). I found several items described as 'portable' and weighing about 13 or 14 kilos. I didn't see the 'Clam' brand listed on Amazon, but I did find a separate listing for the Clam C-360 Portable model on Ebay, described as weighing 36 pounds (= 16.3 kilos). This seems rather heavy to be lifted very far by the wind. For comparison, children's paddling pools (see my post #48 above) can weigh less than a kilo.

Searching Google generally for 'ice shanty weight', I got various results suggesting much higher weights, even over 100 kilos, but I think these are for more substantial heavy-duty shacks, not intended to be portable.

It is surprising how much the wind can lift under the right conditions. Here are a couple of portable toilets being lofted:
Capture.JPGCapture 2.JPG
Source:
Source: https://youtu.be/-35-hdWUZuk
, toilets begin to fly at around 6 seconds in and this is shown several times, includes other effects of that whirlwind that are not as dramatic as flying toilets. This is a far cry from reaching multiple thousands of feet,but step one of anything flying to that altitude would be getting it off the ground.

Worth noting:

A standard porta-potty usually weighs around 230 to 300 lbs. So those winds had to whip up quick to send the restroom flying.
Source: https://www.actionnews5.com/story/38434673/breakdown-what-caused-a-porta-potty-to-take-flight/

On balance, balloons seem more likely than tents or toilets -- but tents probably can't be ruled out out-of-hand.

Quick side observation -- this is an interesting video to remember when UFO/Bigfoot/etc fans protest how it is unfair to expect better footage of UFO/Bigfoot/etc encounters since such events are so rare and unexpected, catching people too off guard to shoot footage. But flying toilets seem pretty rare and unexpected, and this video manages to track along with the UFT very well.
 
Possibly useful for assessing the blowing-in-the-wind hypothesis, whether the object is an ice shanty, a piece of plastic, or whatever, this table from the University of Sussex (England) shows the force against a flat surface of winds at various speeds. E.g. for a wind of 100 kmph, the force against a surface of 1 square meter would be about 75 kg. Of course, the wind would not be blowing consistently upwards against the bottom of the object. Still, it does seem that a plausibly strong wind could lift an object of the size and weight of a portable 'shanty' against the downward force of gravity.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/weatherstation/technical/Windforce.html

Possibly relevant is that ice fishing shanties have no floor, so you can sit inside them and, well, fish. So if one broke free of its moorings it would be somewhat like a big paper bag in the wind.
 
Possibly relevant is that ice fishing shanties have no floor, so you can sit inside them and, well, fish. So if one broke free of its moorings it would be somewhat like a big paper bag in the wind.
Ditto for any sort of tent with the flap open.
 
If there had been casualties as a result of the shoot downs what would the media spin look like?

For example the "Battle of Los Angeles" 25 Feb 1942 killed 5 people and there's some very obviously adjusted photos around which claim an impenetrable UFO, rather than panic, justified firing some 1,400 shells in the air over US territory.

PhotoMontage.gif
 
If there had been casualties as a result of the shoot downs what would the media spin look like?
That's why they didn't take the first one down over Montana.

You have a matrix here:
shoot it downlet it fly
crossfire casualtiesx% chancesafe
mid-air collisionsafey% chance

To make a decision, you weigh the chances, x% against y%: it's bad press either way, no option is completely safe.

They may also have wanted to demonstrate internationally that they can detect and disable objects of any size, which is a benefit in the "shoot it down" column.

"Let it fly" is what they used to do, but that was possible because nobody's attention was on them, so the current decision makers wouldn't have been blamed if anything had happened.
 
So it is becoming to look like the two other small objects could be (at least one of) those hobby balloons?

I find it histerically funny that one hand we have this simple, mundane balloon, and on the other hand we have the Reddit ufo community that is going completely bezirk that even these claims are made like "Roswell 2.0" or "Trains being derailed on purpose to disable UAP"

I think this is why the ufo community is not taken seriously, it is their own bloody fault.

"Trains being derailed on purpose to disable UAP"

This thread was a good read. Fascinating to watch a skeptic community respond to developing information in real time.

I also find it fascinating that this thread went dead Feb 21, 2023. So much new info. Nobody bother to post the POTUS press briefing that dealt DIRECTLY with this case? Nobody follow up and do some digging? We still saying all 3 objects were Pico Balloons? Drones from China? What is the current leading theory here now?

You all buy that they just "lost" the debris?

CNN 3 objects.png
 
That statement is fairly odd. It invites many more questions than it answers. I mean it's either aerodynamic, buoyant or ballistic are they saying they cannot tell which at this stage?

To shoot down an object which you cannot characterise to the point of not even being able to tell what form of lift it employs, outwardly seems reckless.
You are right. You don't shoot down something you can't characterize. In fact you are trained over and over NEVER to fire on a target you don't have a ID on. Blue on blue danger is very very real even in training let alone real world like this. Would be nice if we ever got the audio of the pilots talking. But all FOIA requests have been denied, not even congress is briefed about the shootdowns (even gang of 8). No FBI report on the wreckage of the 1st China Spy Balloon. Everything is shut down. Even the UFO community has been propagandized to ignore this case as it "hurts ufology to be associated with anything balloons".
 
"Trains being derailed on purpose to disable UAP"

This thread was a good read. Fascinating to watch a skeptic community respond to developing information in real time.

I also find it fascinating that this thread went dead Feb 21, 2023. So much new info. Nobody bother to post the POTUS press briefing that dealt DIRECTLY with this case? Nobody follow up and do some digging? We still saying all 3 objects were Pico Balloons? Drones from China? What is the current leading theory here now?

You all buy that they just "lost" the debris?

CNN 3 objects.png
I think this administration would be apt to hide the fact if they fired/wasted 4 Sidewinders missiles valued at nearly $2M to shot down hobbiest balloons costing less than $100 each. They looked weak and foolish allowing a known intel gathering asset from China to overfly the US, and went after the other three balloons to show the administration's resolve.
 
hobbiest balloons
More likely small Chinese surveillance balloons. But that would mean that POTUS and CIA and State Department are all flat out lying to the American People and Congress. I don't buy the fact 2 F-35's over Alaska (home of our most advanced and powerful radars btw) could not identify a pico balloon with a radio chirp. Those things would have picked up the radio and pinpointed their location. The F-35 is built for electronic surveillance. Plus 7 cutting edge FLIR cameras pointing in every direction.

I still think it is highly mysterious. The NORAD General was very clear that these were NOT balloons in his statements early on.

Full Transcript: https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...of-defense-for-homeland-defense-and-hemisphe/

GEN. VANHERCK: Yeah. So I’m not going to categorize these balloons. We call them objects for a reason. Certainly, the event of South Carolina coast for the Chinese spy balloon, that was clearly a balloon.

These are objects. I am not able to categorize how they stay aloft. It could be a gaseous type of balloon inside a structure or it could be some type of a propulsion system. But clearly, they’re — they’re able to stay aloft.
 
More likely small Chinese surveillance balloons. But that would mean that POTUS and CIA and State Department are all flat out lying to the American People and Congress. I don't buy the fact 2 F-35 over Alaska (home of our most advanced and powerful radars btw) could not identify a pico balloon with a radio chirp. Those things would have picked up the radio and pinpointed their location. The F-35 is built for electronic surveillance. Plus 7 cutting edge FLIR cameras pointing in every direction.

I still think it is highly mysterious. The NORAD General was very clear that these were NOT balloons in his statements early on.

Full Transcript: https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...of-defense-for-homeland-defense-and-hemisphe/
That's my point, they knew/know they were shooting down harmless balloons and are hiding behind the "national security" exclusion of FOIA. And not disclosing information legally deemed critical to the defense of the US isn't lying, even if the information involved isn't really all that critical.
 
even if the information involved isn't really all that critical.
This incident is VERY sensitive. If this was more China Spy balloons the diplomatic fallout would be very significant. That is why the FBI report on the first balloon wreckage has YET to be provided to congress (let alone made public). If it is true that the gov is lying to both congress and the people about this it would be potentially a crime. Gang of 8 at least should be informed and last I heard nobody in congress has seen FBI report including gang of 8. Biden flat out said in his speech they were not from China (the 3 smaller ones), which I found confusing because they are still considered unidentified officially. How can you rule out China without recovering the debris?
 
I also find it fascinating that this thread went dead Feb 21, 2023. So much new info.
You haven't posted any new evidence of substance.


The NORAD General was very clear that these were NOT balloons in his statements early on.
and then you quote him saying, " It could be a gaseous type of balloon inside a structure".
If I were you, I'd be having a hard look at what makes me disregard contradictions like these.

(btw, it's not new either, see me quote it at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/un...intercepted-by-us-aircraft.12866/#post-287536 )
 
Biden flat out said in his speech they were not from China (the 3 smaller ones), which I found confusing because they are still considered unidentified officially. How can you rule out China without recovering the debris?
You need to quote evidence in full, like so:
Article:
"We don't yet know what these three objects were, but nothing right now suggests that they were related to China's spy balloon program or that they were surveillance vehicles from any other country," Biden said at the White House.

This means your premise, "Biden flat out said in his speech they were not from China", is false. It's a straw man.
 
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This incident is VERY sensitive. If this was more China Spy balloons the diplomatic fallout would be very significant. That is why the FBI report on the first balloon wreckage has YET to be provided to congress (let alone made public). If it is true that the gov is lying to both congress and the people about this it would be potentially a crime. Gang of 8 at least should be informed and last I heard nobody in congress has seen FBI report including gang of 8. Biden flat out said in his speech they were not from China (the 3 smaller ones), which I found confusing because they are still considered unidentified officially. How can you rule out China without recovering the debris?
Again, not disclosing information that has been classified is not lying. There is a specific exemption in the FOIA that allows non-disclosure of such information. Hiding behind security classification for political purposes to avoid embarrassment is reprehensible, but sadly nothing new.
 
This incident is VERY sensitive. If this was more China Spy balloons the diplomatic fallout would be very significant. That is why the FBI report on the first balloon wreckage has YET to be provided to congress (let alone made public). If it is true that the gov is lying to both congress and the people about this it would be potentially a crime. Gang of 8 at least should be informed and last I heard nobody in congress has seen FBI report including gang of 8. Biden flat out said in his speech they were not from China (the 3 smaller ones), which I found confusing because they are still considered unidentified officially. How can you rule out China without recovering the debris?
Taking out foreign intelligence platforms operating in your territory without your permission rarely leads to diplomatic fallout, there's some pot shots in media and that's it, that's pretty much how the entire historical cycle goes, during the Cold War the US and USSR were taking out each others balloons like a ski shooting competition and it was just hand wringing in newspapers. You don't really have much of a leg to stand on when your platform is illegally operating in another's territory.

The rest of your comment is filled some possible issued points. We only know of FBI involvement with 1 object, and in this case, they took custody of debris. This happens because an LE investigation is initiated surrounding it, and given the context, it would fall within FBIs purview, not a DoD investigative body. With that said, both "sides" are going to be reporting on it. FBIs investigation would be focused in an entirely different area, and the FBIs report is unlikely to tell you what you're looking for vs other bodies looking at it.
 
We only know of FBI involvement with 1 object, and in this case, they took custody of debris. This happens because an LE investigation is initiated surrounding it, and given the context, it would fall within FBIs purview, not a DoD investigative body.
Could you please quote a source on that, I don't recall reading about it, and your post is unclear.
 
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