Trump Shot at Rally

This RedactedNews YouTube video [one of several, including Alex Jones] includes footage of an apparent figure on the watertower and some eyewitness interivews who appear to confirm it.
Source: https://youtu.be/ZlNW-U4hH70?si=nPAm9k0iTHAvXi3I
Their remarks are from the begining of the video up to around [2:30] then they repeat. Here's a screen grab of the shadow they think is a person on the water tower.
Screenshot 2024-07-20 at 16.10.08.png
Witness interviews at timestamps.
[1:48] - "other shooter"... "by the water tower"
[2:00] - "firing down from the water tower"
[2:05] - "he killed the gentleman in the water tower here"
What's interesting is how sure the witnesses on camera are about what they think they saw, and that they all mention "water tower".
But the second water tower shooter theory apparently doesn't work [is bunk].
This better quality video, Tweeted by Oliver Alexander, covers the whole shooting and event shows no figure, or mussle flash, or any other activity at the watertower.

Source: https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1814300342365859983
 
Giddierone said:
This RedactedNews YouTube video [one of several, including Alex Jones] includes footage of an apparent figure on the watertower and some eyewitness interivews who appear to confirm it.
Source: https://youtu.be/ZlNW-U4hH70?si=nPAm9k0iTHAvXi3I
Their remarks are from the begining of the video up to around [2:30] then they repeat. Here's a screen grab of the shadow they think is a person on the water tower.
View attachment 70371Witness interviews at timestamps.
[1:48] - "other shooter"... "by the water tower"
[2:00] - "firing down from the water tower"
[2:05] - "he killed the gentleman in the water tower here"
What's interesting is how sure the witnesses on camera are about what they think they saw, and that they all mention "water tower".
But the second water tower shooter theory apparently doesn't work [is bunk].
This better quality video, Tweeted by Oliver Alexander, covers the whole shooting and event shows no figure, or mussle flash, or any other activity at the watertower.

Source: https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1814300342365859983
Click to expand...

It is an axiom for assassinations and school shootings: There WILL ALWAYS be reports of a second gunman.

And sometimes they will actually be correct.
 
Mendel said:
I was wondering if there was aerial drone surveillance.
Click to expand...
There was...by the shooter. WSJ reports that before the event Crooks flew a drone over the area. If true, alongside with all the other security flaws, it's really unbelievable.
The gunman who tried to kill Donald Trump was able to fly a drone and get aerial footage of the western Pennsylvania fairgrounds shortly before the former president was set to speak there, law-enforcement officials briefed on the matter said,...
Click to expand...
https://www.wsj.com/politics/nation...hours-before-attempted-assassination-2d0e2e1a
 
Ann K said:
Water towers have a vent on top. That's all this is.
Click to expand...

It's not the water tower vent they are calling a second shooter, it's the shadow of the vent which seems to "disappear" at times.

Except they are too dumb to notice the shadow "disappearing" is merely low resolution pixelation artifacts that occur only when the camera moves, with the shadow reappearing every time the camera comes to rest.
 
There was obviously a rumour in the crowd that someone was at the water tower. Whether this was some acousitc misperception or was started by some illinformed local officer we don't know, but it's interesting that the witnesses seem very sure about their facts (insert Trump rally attendee's grasp of facts joke here). It seems unlikely those interviewed would have seen the video yet. So only afterwards do we get "analysis" by YouTuber's claiming that the video supports the witness testimony [it doesn't].
 
Giddierone said:
This RedactedNews YouTube video [one of several, including Alex Jones] includes footage of an apparent figure on the watertower and some eyewitness interivews who appear to confirm it.
Source: https://youtu.be/ZlNW-U4hH70?si=nPAm9k0iTHAvXi3I
Their remarks are from the begining of the video up to around [2:30] then they repeat. Here's a screen grab of the shadow they think is a person on the water tower.
View attachment 70371Witness interviews at timestamps.
[1:48] - "other shooter"... "by the water tower"
[2:00] - "firing down from the water tower"
[2:05] - "he killed the gentleman in the water tower here"
What's interesting is how sure the witnesses on camera are about what they think they saw, and that they all mention "water tower".
But the second water tower shooter theory apparently doesn't work [is bunk].
This better quality video, Tweeted by Oliver Alexander, covers the whole shooting and event shows no figure, or mussle flash, or any other activity at the watertower.

Source: https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1814300342365859983
Click to expand...


One problem I see with the shooter on the water tower, how much was the line of sight obscured by the Jumbotron?
Screenshot 2024-07-18 1.31.02 PM.png
 

FBI Is Not Fully Convinced Trump Was Struck by a Bullet


https://dnyuz.com/2024/07/24/fbi-is-not-fully-convinced-trump-was-struck-by-a-bullet/
FBI Director Christopher Wray revealed during a marathon testimony on Wednesday that investigators still do not know if former President Donald Trump was grazed by a bullet or a piece of shrapnel during his attempted assassination.

Twice during the hours-long session, Wray told lawmakers that the FBI was still working to determine what exactly struck the former president on his right ear during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
Click to expand...

Later during the hearing, Committee Chair Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) asked Wray if investigators knew where all eight bullets fired by Thomas Matthew Crooks ended up after the shooting."
Click to expand...

My understanding is that either it [a bullet] or some shrapnel is what grazed his ear," Wray told Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-Calif.).
"There is some question about whether or not it was a bullet or shrapnel that hit his ear, so it is conceivable, as I sit here right now, I don't know whether that bullet, in addition to causing the grazing, could have also landed somewhere else," Wray testified.
Click to expand...



Pittsburgh's Channel 11 News, known to the rest of us as WPXI, is reporting that four local police officers who were part of Donald Trump's motorcycle escort were wounded by shrapnel during the shooting. Their report states that the officers were just a few feet away from Trump when shots rang out. The four officers suffered minor injuries from flying debris caused by the bullets. Sources say that the officers were hit with either plastic or metal fragments when the bullets struck nearby objects.
Click to expand...
 
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https://www.wpxi.com/news/investiga...rking-trump-rally/4V43BKBXYBAN3PPHJTLK4FR4ZM/
PITTSBURGH — 11 Investigates has learned exclusively that two Pittsburgh police motorcycle officers who were injured during the shooting at former President Donald Trump's rally over the weekend have been removed from the cycle unit.

Sources told 11 Investigates that the Pennsylvania State Police requested Pittsburgh motorcycle officers to assist with former President Trump's motorcade Saturday night from the airport in Allegheny County to Butler County and back again.

Pittsburgh sent 10 officers.
Four of them, as we exclusively reported Sunday afternoon, were hit by shrapnel when a gunman opened fire at the rally, killing one man, and wounding Trump and several others.

The Pittsburgh motorcycle officers suffered only minor injuries and were treated at the scene.

One later went to the hospital.

Video from CBS News shows those Pittsburgh officers, just minutes after they were hit with debris, in the stands helping some of the injured, even carrying one to safety.

But two days after their heroic actions, two motorcycle unit supervisors were transferred out of the unit.

Sources told 11 Investigates the bureau claimed they never got permission to assist Trump.
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to track down more about this.
 
Z.W. Wolf said:
Click to expand...


This is some real BlueAnon stuff. To the vast majority of people whether he was hit with a bullet, a fragment of a bullet or some other type of shrapnel is a distinction without a difference. There was clearly an assassination attempt on his life that came within an inch of causing serious harm to Trump. There are plenty of great examples of Trump telling fibs, but this isn't one of them.
 
The guy in the video is putting a political spin on things. I'm not interested in the political spin. Just the facts.

Wray has said the FBI is not certain about what hit Trump. WPXI reported that motorcycle cops were hit by shrapnel. I have no idea where they were standing, so far. I can't see them in any video. If they were motorcycle cops I'd think they would be wearing helmets not Smokey Bears. Maybe the WPXI story is talking about the cops helping Dutch and Copenhaver? They are wearing neither hats nor helmets.

So far the WPXI report is murky.

The ultimate goal here is to get enough data to debunk conspiracy theories such as the impossible trajectory, therefore there must have been a second (third, forth) shooter theory. If everything is put in its place then we'll see if the the trajectories are possible or not.
 
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Z.W. Wolf said:
If they were motorcycle cops I'd think they would be wearing helmets not Smokey Bears. Maybe the WPXI story is talking about the cops helping Dutch and Copenhaver? They are wearing neither hats nor helmets.
Click to expand...
I would expect the helmets to be stowed on the motorcycles; and thus the helmet-less motorcycle cops would have no headwear.
 
The Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner testified in front of the House the other day and gave some useful information.

Officer left post to look for Crooks

Paris testified that two local law enforcement officers left a building with vantage points overlooking the roof where Crooks took aim at the former president before he fired shots, but the local district attorney later said the building was never unmanned.

Paris said that two officers with the Butler County Emergency Services Unit, a tactical force with sniper capabilities, left their posts in the building to look for a suspicious individual they spotted first and alerted to other law enforcement. That person was Crooks.

Wednesday, Butler County DA Richard Goldinger disputed the testimony, saying that only one of the ESU officers left the building briefly to search for Crooks.

"Both ESU officers moved within the building, attempting to keep eyes on Crooks," Goldinger said in a statement. "One of the officers observed Crooks sitting on a picnic table at the front of the building from his location on the second floor of the building. Crooks then ran off, carrying a backpack."

"At this point, that officer ran out of the building attempting to keep eyes on Crooks until other law enforcement arrived. The other officer remained in the building, on the second floor," Goldinger said. "The officer who ran out of the building could not locate Crooks, and he returned to the building. Both officers then heard shots fired."

Goldinger added that "neither officer could see Crooks on the other building due to the visual angle they had from their location to Crooks' location."

When asked about the DA's statement, a spokesperson for the Pennsylvania State Police said the agency stands by Paris' testimony.

"Our agency stands by yesterday's testimony," said Lieutenant Adam Reed, the state police's director of communications. "The investigation into the shooting and its aftermath continues."
Click to expand...
source = https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/23/politics/pennsylvania-state-police-commissioner-reveals-stunning-info-about-trump-shooting/index.html

I bolded the relevant text. The Butler County DA's contradictory statement was added after I initially read the story.

So it sounds like the team was in the two-story building behind the one from which Crooks fired. I wonder where they were in the building if they could not view him on the roof from their location.

Using Google Street View the only picnic table I see is to the north of the building.

4c9e5aac8fc92b6b959bcbac55ac285b.jpg


Crooks fired eight times

Investigators believe that Crooks fired eight rounds before he was killed by counter-snipers, Paris said.

"I believe that the number is eight," Paris told the committee. "Eight casings have been recovered."

Officials had previously only confirmed that the shooter fired multiple times at the rally earlier this month.

Paris also told members of Congress that "several Secret Service agents" told the state police area commander during a walkthrough of the area before the rally that the Butler County Emergency Services Unit was responsible for securing the building where Crooks fired the shots.
Click to expand...
source = https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/23/politics/pennsylvania-state-police-commissioner-reveals-stunning-info-about-trump-shooting/index.html

Eight shell casings were recovered which is consistent with Crooks being the only shooter.

Minutes on the roof

A municipal officer came face-to-face with Crooks during the several minutes the would-be assassin was on the roof before Crooks fired on Trump, Paris testified.

Paris said that the brief confrontation came as a pair of local officers who had learned of Crooks' position on the roof attempted to climb up and confront the shooter. But while the officer was "dangling" from the roof, Crooks aimed his rifle at the officer and the officer fell.

Paris told lawmakers that Crooks was on the roof for roughly three minutes, but only a few seconds passed between when the officer confronted him and when he fired at Trump, correcting a timeframe he gave earlier in the hearing.

"When the one local officer hoisted the other one up, and subsequently falls," Paris said, Crooks was "already, I believe, close to being in his final position there. And I'm told it's – again, sequence of events, not a timeline based on the prior criteria laid out – but seconds after that is when the first shots rang up."
Click to expand...
source = https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/23/politics/pennsylvania-state-police-commissioner-reveals-stunning-info-about-trump-shooting/index.html

It's likely that the officer's intervention caused Crooks to rush his shots.
 
Bodycam footage of cops on the roof with the dead shooter has been released.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBygHmIZ6c


This is already being used to support the two shooter conspiracy theory as at 4:52 one of the officers quickly scans the area and counts 5 shell casings.

Except later, at 24:00, there is a more thorough check for shell casings and the same officer counts 8.

Expect the conspiracy theory to grow to include these specific officers on the roof planting the additional 3 shell casings at some point between 4:52 and 24:00 because, you know, that's what conspiracy theorists do.

Edit: As expected, because there is an edit at 11:22 in the video, seemingly removing everything between 18:38:14 and 18:49:08, then that must be when the officers planted the evidence.
 
Last edited:
This image taken from the video posted above also confirms that the sniper team closest to the shooter had their view of him blocked by a tree. In this image the bodycam wearer is standing to the right of the dead shooter.

1721947563268.png
 
Returning to the issue of trump's ear:

What about acoustic trauma?
Wouldn't the shock wave from a bullet cause damage to the eardrum, the bones in middle ear, the inner ear?

Any sign that Trump suffered even temporary hearing loss?
 
Z.W. Wolf said:
The guy in the video is putting a political spin on things. I'm not interested in the political spin. Just the facts.
Click to expand...

Well it might have been a good idea to leave out the political spin video and just concentrate on the article you were quoting.

Occupy Democrats is about as reliable as InfoWars.
 
That's where I first found the bit about the cops and the shrapnel, so I used it as a source and a starting point. I still can't find any clarity about this cops wounded by shrapnel thing. Is there any thing to it? Can you help doing some research on this?
 
Greene said:
So it sounds like the team was in the two-story building behind the one from which Crooks fired. I wonder where they were in the building if they could not view him on the roof from their location.
Click to expand...

So here's the view from one of the rooms in the two-story building behind Crooks. To see Crooks from this position you would have needed to push the window open, stick your head out and look to the left.


Source: https://x.com/Breaking911/status/1815461502079692971

The video appears to have been taken from the circled window in the image below:

1721965736549.png

Source: Fox News Digital

It's not clear which room the sniper team or any other law enforcement officers may have been in, but it does seem an odd choice to position them behind one of these narrow windows with a limited field of view. Why they were not on a roof is anyone's guess, and the OH&S issue with slanted roofing doesn't hold up.
 
jimmyslippin said:
So here's the view from one of the rooms in the two-story building behind Crooks. To see Crooks from this position you would have needed to push the window open, stick your head out and look to the left.
Click to expand...
Then that's what they should have done. You can't not do your lookout properly just because it's inconvenient. Especially when you know you have a suspect somewhere outside the building.
 
Mendel said:
Then that's what they should have done. You can't not do your lookout properly just because it's inconvenient.
Click to expand...

I don't recall saying otherwise.

Mendel said:
Especially when you know you have a suspect somewhere outside the building.
Click to expand...

Well that's the million dollar question, isn't it. What did the people positioned in that building know, when did they know it and what did they do about it?
 
jimmyslippin said:
I don't recall saying otherwise.
Click to expand...
I don't recall saying you said otherwise. ;)
jimmyslippin said:
Well that's the million dollar question, isn't it. What did the people positioned in that building know, when did they know it and what did they do about it?
Click to expand...
Paris and Goldinger both testified the officers in the building knew, see post #224 above ( https://www.metabunk.org/threads/trump-shot-at-rally.13550/post-320146 ).

It's currently unclear (to me) whether someone was actually at a window overlooking that roof, or should have been. "neither officer could see Crooks on the other building due to the visual angle they had from their location to Crooks' location." (Goldinger)
 
Mendel said:
Paris and Goldinger both testified the officers in the building knew, see post #224 above ( https://www.metabunk.org/threads/trump-shot-at-rally.13550/post-320146 ).

It's currently unclear (to me) whether someone was actually at a window overlooking that roof, or should have been. "neither officer could see Crooks on the other building due to the visual angle they had from their location to Crooks' location." (Goldinger)
Click to expand...

Paris and Goldinger are also giving conflicting information with regard to where both officers actually were at the time. According to Paris both of the officers left their post to look for the dude. Goldinger says one of them remained there (source is the same post you cited). Who is giving correct information? Did one or both of them leave their post before the dude climbed on the roof? Witnesses standing nearby were aware the dude was on the roof and were attempting to relay this information to police. Did it reach these two officers? If it did, where were they when they first heard it? We just don't know. Paris and Goldinger giving conflicting information doesn't help.
 
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Z.W. Wolf said:
Returning to the issue of trump's ear:

What about acoustic trauma?
Wouldn't the shock wave from a bullet cause damage to the eardrum, the bones in middle ear, the inner ear?

Any sign that Trump suffered even temporary hearing loss?
Click to expand...


unlikely i stand in target trench under 223 5.56mm and larger bullets passing less than 3 feet overhead at my rifle range. The sonic bang is loud but not shock wave harmful, its just a crack much like a horse whip but less loud than a whip crack.. Sure a shot passing right next to ear be painfull to ear drum & may cause temporary ringing,, have some one clap hands right next to your ear as good example
 

FBI says Trump was indeed struck by bullet during assassination attempt

(Sort of)

https://apnews.com/article/trump-bu...stopher-wray-cb780b9d1a078f0be4191682e75101cf

"What struck former President Trump in the ear was a bullet, whether whole or fragmented into smaller pieces, fired from the deceased subject's rifle," the agency said in a statement.
Click to expand...

A bullet fragment is still on the table.

Most of the bullet must have stayed together and retained its supersonic velocity. Why? Because we hear three cracks on the soundtrack recorded by Trump's lectern mic.

BTW, is that mic directional?

And another thing. I keep seeing this common mistake. Trump was standing at a podium lectern.
podium_rostrum_lectern (1).png
 
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Mendel said:
Paris and Goldinger both testified the officers in the building knew, see post #224 above ( https://www.metabunk.org/threads/trump-shot-at-rally.13550/post-320146 ).

It's currently unclear (to me) whether someone was actually at a window overlooking that roof, or should have been. "neither officer could see Crooks on the other building due to the visual angle they had from their location to Crooks' location." (Goldinger)
Click to expand...

That's still the big question.

My current theory is that one officer left the building to search while the second moved between windows within the same building/floor to look.

The picnic table I noted is directly in the line of sight of the window on the opposite side of the building from those facing over the roof where he fired.
 
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