qed
Senior Member
The horror!I seem to be learning more stuff than I try to debunk.
The horror!I seem to be learning more stuff than I try to debunk.
To one degree or other, I think there's a pretty drastic difference between the expectations that flat earthers have concerning satellites and reality. For instance, they might see a visualization of satellites around earth like this:minute 09:50:
sorry, I dont get that impression, especially right after the satellite-monologue and how they cant be seen-nonsense. and I dont belive her, when she says that the guys at the LA-observatory denied practically any visibility of satellites, regardless the gear or nacked eye ("we cant see them from earth", 08:15), thats ridicioulus; the guys from my hometown-observatory were the ones who showed me a satellite as it was ziping across the sky when I was 14.
edit/ 23:10 - 24:20; sounds like she twist some of your statements in her memory in a very odd way.you seem almost to gentle to her, mick.this is kinda weird and painful to listen to. for me it is. ed2/ still is.
I always ask this. California has approximately 98,000 transit busses. How come you can't see them in this picture?To one degree or other, I think there's a pretty drastic difference between the expectations that flat earthers have concerning satellites and reality. For instance, they might see a visualization of satellites around earth like this:
![]()
...and take it entirely literally, without applying any proper scaling to the system (i.e., they are this big, this far away, are this reflective, etc.). Understanding the variables involved with watching satellites, it doesn't surprise me, personally, that getting a good view of satellites (barring the ISS, which is very easy to spot) is quite hard.
Besides that, there may be a bit of a disconnect between what a flat earther and "globehead" consider "seeing" a satellite -- the globehead comprehends that small size and great distance means that satellites only appear as a small dot of light to the naked eye. The flat earther hears about the thousands of satellites orbiting earth, and immediately assumes that they should appear as a fusillade of incredibly bright shooting stars. Anything less means that satellites are fake.
Being clear, this is just personal impressions based off discussions that I've observed and been a part of, one in particular fairly recently. An individual asked for a photo of 10 satellites in one shot, and that was conveniently right after SpaceX had launched the first set of Starlink satellites, which at the time were moving together through the sky like a train. Anyhow, I showed him a popular video that's been circulating around the web of somebody watching the "Starlink train" from the ground, with a few dozen satellites in view. I'm not totally sure what he was expecting in response to his request, but for some reason that was unacceptable.
California is on the other side of the globe in this pictureI always ask this. California has approximately 98,000 transit busses. How come you can't see them in this picture?
China has 50k.California is on the other side of the globe in this picture![]()
China has 50k.
YeahChina has less busssess than California?!?![]()
Yeah, I found that quite suspicious but as it is just hearsay it's going to be hard to prove one way or another whether that interaction ever occurred. I used to work at a public observatory here in Florida and we would frequently point out bright satellites like Hubble, ISS and Iridium flares to our guests. I find it very hard to believe that even a volunteer at such a well visited observatory would be unaware of the ability to see such objects, unless they were very new. I think it is far more likely though that the interaction might have gone closer along the lines of "it's cloudy tonight so no we can't see satellites" or possibly "it's too late in the evening, so there won't be any visible satellites" but perhaps it wasn't communicated as thoroughly. Low earth orbit satellites can generally only be seen during the hours immediately following sunset or immediately preceding sunrise (at least true during the winter), and mid to high altitude satellites are usually too dim to be visible to the naked eye.minute 09:50:
sorry, I dont get that impression, especially right after the satellite-monologue and how they cant be seen-nonsense. and I dont belive her, when she says that the guys at the LA-observatory denied practically any visibility of satellites, regardless the gear or nacked eye ("we cant see them from earth", 08:15), thats ridicioulus; the guys from my hometown-observatory were the ones who showed me a satellite as it was ziping across the sky when I was 14.
China has 50k.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/577547/forecast-for-global-number-of-transit-buses/Where did you get that number? I found a different number:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ic-bus-it-s-china-ahead-of-u-s-421-000-to-300
Keep in mind it seems they have lots of smaller scopes they set up on the lawn for star party nights. I doubt the Zeiss telescope is nimble enough to move and track satellites (geostationary is a different matter but given the focal length it could be tricky to nail them). Many of the smaller telescopes they have out on the lawn could probably do the job though with the right setup. Scopes like the Celestron they show on that site as well as the Meade LX200 are compatible programs out there designed to enable satellite tracking (including one created by yours truly). I would have phrased the question differently to ask in general about seeing satellites out on the lawn and maybe inquired if any of the scopes they have available could be used for that purpose, I wouldn't be surprised to hear it's never been done with the Zeiss.I googled (did my homework) "Griffith Observatory telescope) and apparently the Zeiss telescope is pretty famous for allowing public viewing. (she says she didn't know if she wasn't allowed to look through the telescope
http://www.griffithobservatory.org/programs/publictelescopes.html
The only satellite I can find on their webpage is the ISS (which does move fast). But I twittered the "Sky Report" guy and asked him if I can see satellites through his Zeiss telescope. I'll let y'all know what he says.
This is from a Guardian article talking about Shenzhen (population 13.5 million; about 1% of the country):Yeah
That's for "heavy duty transit buses" (same source):
Well, if you want to start a thread about Chinese bus numbers feel free. My point was since HDTBs are far larger than most satellites and we can't see them either than maybe we are not supposed to see the satellites.That's for "heavy duty transit buses" (same source):
That same page shows the entire of North America has only around 6,000 HDTBs.
I doubt the Zeiss telescope is nimble enough to move and track satellites (geostationary is a different matter but given the focal length it could be tricky to nail them).
I doubt the Zeiss telescope is nimble enough to move and track satellites
Yeah that's about the answer I expected. Good tip though on the geostationary satellites and the Orion Nebula. If they shut the drive off as a geostationary satellite passed through they would see it come to a stop and remain in the eyepiece. I can't imagine they'd want to waste observing time doing that, but I've done it before on my webcasts. It would be cool if they dedicate a smaller scope out on the lawn to tracking low earth orbit satellites and display it on monitor, especially if something interesting was coming overhead like ISS or Hubble, but at least in my experience these kinds of public observatories rarely have the time and resources to set anything up that would be that complex. The KISS principle usually works best for public viewing. I've done satellite tracking at public viewings before and it's always a hit, but it does require a little more setup time and experience than regular observing.
they do have a youtube channel, but i didn't see any live feed type sky observations. they seem more interested in things going on in space. I didn't look at the channel that closely though, as their stuff isn't labeled well. I thought they might have footage of the Orion Nebula but I got bored looking for itIt would be cool if they dedicate a smaller scope out on the lawn to tracking low earth orbit satellites and display