TFTRH #14: Rory – Flat Earth Debunking and Spiritual Journeys

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzylq9FhwoE

@Rory has an extensive series of videos on YouTube debunking Flat Earth, focusing on simple ways of demonstrating that there’s a curve. But he’s also got a very interesting life story as a traveler, both around the world and in a spiritual sense. This exploration has eventually given him a great perspective on why people believe in things when the evidence is against them, but at times led him to entertain a number of conspiracy theories and other esoteric beliefs. He’s still a little esoteric, but as he’s got older he’s become a bit more grounded. We talk about his journey from “bliss ninny” to “pain-in-the ass debunker”

 

Rory

Senior Member.
Some things I might have added:

1.

Mick asked about New Age friends who might also have been conspiracy theorists, and I mentioned a few that believed in a 9/11 inside job and that chemtrails was perhaps the most prevelant theory.

Having thought about that, I ponder three things: 1. That New Agers tend to be highly optimistic and positive thinking people, so rather than paranoia they tend to exhibit "pronoic" traits: that is, "that the Universe (and everything in it) is conspiring for my benefit"; 2. That New Agers tend to be mostly apathetic towards politics - or, indeed, looking on the physical world as an "illusion" - so not particularly interested in worldy goings on; and 3. That a lot of people in these circles are highly focused on health and the body, and that may be why things like chemtrails and "flouride in the water" seem to be the most common CTs to pop up. I believe, for example, that there's a whole mythology about flouride "calcifying the pineal gland" - which to many believers is synonymous with the so-called "third eye" - and, since that's not something they want, they maybe look into that one. But there isn't much interest, on the whole, as far as I can see.

2.

Mick and I chatted about my first "vision quest" - spending six distraction-free days alone in nature - and I said that it was a "life-changing experience". It's difficult to pinpoint exactly what that means, and can often be somewhat abstract - but one tangible, measurable outcome of that experience was that I gave up drinking. Or, to put it more correctly, the impulse to drink seemed to completely leave me. This was after ten years of fairly solid and enthusiastic imbibing - ie, drinking like a standard young Englishman, as often and as much as I could, till blackout was achieved. The vision quest seemed to work as something of an "emotional cleanse". I guess whatever gunk inside that had been driving me to booze got cleaned out.

3.

Attached is a chapter from a book I wrote about that LSD trip when I was 19.
 

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Mechanik

Active Member
Some things I might have added:

1.

Mick asked about New Age friends who might also have been conspiracy theorists, and I mentioned a few that believed in a 9/11 inside job and that chemtrails was perhaps the most prevelant theory.

Having thought about that, I ponder three things: 1. That New Agers tend to be highly optimistic and positive thinking people, so rather than paranoia they tend to exhibit "pronoic" traits: that is, "that the Universe (and everything in it) is conspiring for my benefit"; 2. That New Agers tend to be mostly apathetic towards politics - or, indeed, looking on the physical world as an "illusion" - so not particularly interested in worldy goings on; and 3. That a lot of people in these circles are highly focused on health and the body, and that may be why things like chemtrails and "flouride in the water" seem to be the most common CTs to pop up. I believe, for example, that there's a whole mythology about flouride "calcifying the pineal gland" - which to many believers is synonymous with the so-called "third eye" - and, since that's not something they want, they maybe look into that one. But there isn't much interest, on the whole, as far as I can see.
Thanks to you, @Rory and @Mick for the links. Your avatar has always made my mouth water for a well-marbled, happy, beefsteak dinner saying “eat me”! I watched a double handful of your videos and the illustrations are valuable and clear. The negative comments, however, were a bit surprising in their aggressiveness. That’s not my point here, however.

With regards to New Agers, I agree with 1.1 except that I haven’t seen the “conspiring for my benefit”, although I could ask questions that may reveal that information. 1.2 I agree completely, but would add that my contacts seem to follow worldly events, and can converse superficially on, say, certain political events, but they don’t seem to have an emotional connection to them. One of them seems genuinely interested, and brings up current events as conversation points, but as far as I can tell, she has no emotional or intellectual investment in the conversation. So, “not particularly interested” except perhaps as conversation fodder.

1.3 - Agree completely on health and body. The folks I classify as New Agers have interesting twist on CT that perhaps add to your examples. Two of them are convinced that diet determines just about everything with regards to general health & fitness, and we only disagree on the details. According to them, the reason everyone doesn’t jump on these trends is because Western medicine is conspiring to withhold this “world-changing” information from us. The “research” however, mostly tend to be of the “one Chinese doctor reported 2 patients out of 3 had spontaneous cancer remissions after drinking high-Ph water for 3 months.” I apologize for over generalization here, because they actually cite maybe 20 studies with the same general description. Confusing anecdotal vs. double-blind studies.

Commentary>OFF and humor>ON. One New Ager is on a multi-decade-long cabbage binge. She literally exudes the scent of cabbage, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, since i’m Quite fond of cabbage, but quite an unusual scent in the realm of perfumes. Every time we have dinner at her house (excellent cook, by the way, and she is vegan), I have to fight down the urge bring a nicely-cooked corned beef brisket. I’m not dismissing the cabbage diet, by the way. I haven’t researched it but she looks a decade younger than her actual age and as far as I’m concerned, she could be onto something!
 

Wiggles

New Member
Some things I might have added:
3.

Attached is a chapter from a book I wrote about that 5-hit LSD trip when I was 19.
If you ever find yourself in that situation again, I'd recommend this album by the Ozrics: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBUdE3MrZlc


A lot of people talk about how this music (anything by Ozrics) changes in weird and wonderful ways under the influence. The floor being too far away is a description I heard someone say about an acid trip which seems to be a coincidence. Jurassic Shift would probably also be good, but maybe I'm biased. Also, I've never done acid and that shit scares me. I've listened to enough talks to get whatever gist of it can be gotten by reading/listening. I don't know how to react to the chapter of your book. My takeaway is to avoid Lucy in the Sky until I'm at least 70.

I've also seen some photo of a supposedly calcified pineal gland. I don't know what to make of that whole story. I thought if it was important I would have heard of it from Actual Medicine, not just Alternative Medicine.
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
[…]

Used to listen to Ozric Tentacles back in the 90s; good stuff. Though Gong have always been more my cup of tea. ;)

To be honest, though, the inner music is far greater and beyond anything I could have found outside me. I'd be surprised if anyone could truly and effectively 'imagine' something like that. Not that I'm promoting this sort of thing. These days I'd always say people should tread carefully - even if it might appear that I don't myself (I'd say I know my mind and what it can handle pretty well).
 
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Wiggles

New Member
[…]
To be honest, though, the inner music is far greater and beyond anything I could have found outside me. I'd be surprised if anyone could truly and effectively 'imagine' something like that. Not that I'm promoting this sort of thing.
I've heard the hippies in the 60s describe the chemical as a tool, or as a microscope, that allows one to observe oneself through oneself. The idea is similar to turning a webcam feed on the webcam feed itself. What then do we have a picture of?

I mean for me, e was good enough. Knocking down my anxiety just to sort think about things and talk with people without anxiety is enough for me. People talk about "candy flipping", ie, having a chat with Lucy in the Sky while on e. Again, that shit scares me. I went skydiving, and what I learned is that I don't like floating. I like being grounded.

The times I do like to float are on guitar solos and listening to Ozrics. I like to float on a sea of 7/8. Yes, perhaps they (Ozrics fans) are screaming "YOU GOTTA try Ozrics with some Lucy in the Sky". No. Thank you. It sounds fun but no thank you.
 
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Rory

Senior Member.
It can be useful, for sure - but also weird and strange, and for that reason I don't really recommend it.

I did revisit it about six or seven years ago to see what it would be like with a more mature mind, and it was much more manageable, and not at all scary. It also helped heal my relationship with a parent, who I hadn't really spoken to for about five years, so that was good, and everything's been fine since.

Still, whether it's truly beneficial - or even 'truly spiritual' (even the strongest psychedelic journey pales when compared to a natural experience) - I'm not sure.

But I suppose we could say that about almost anything. ;)
 
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