S4: The Bob Lazar Story Evidence?

[MapperGuy]

Why would the facility need to be camouflaged when it's already at one of the most top secret military facilities in the world? You can see the dozens of huge hangers at area 51 that we already know contained secret projects, Skunkworks etc..

The remoteness, massive perimeter, no fly zone around area 51 already gives it sufficient protection. Military command centres are a different type of facility built deep into mountains since they will be initial targets for air strikes. Defensive military installations (like the camouflaged barns and such in Switzerland) also could be camouflage for strategic defensive purposes near perimeter of the border. But I don't see the reason simply for a secure research facility. I'm sure area 51 has bunkers in the mountains, some probably containing projects requiring material shielding, but the entrances and exits don't need to be extremely camouflaged to look like undisturbed desert. Simply being in one of those hangers at A51 makes it impossible to know about without leaks.

Secondly, if indeed there was a massive facility on the scale Bob asserts, surely we would see significant tailing piles in the vicinity. We are talking thousands of dump truck loads which would've been removed

If you need an earth covered storage space for your flying saucers hardened aircraft shelters or ammunition bunkers would work. You could build an assortment at A51, bomb some of them for 'testing' and then use the un-blasted ones to store your UFO. Nobody would think anything of it, just the government wasting money making more test targets than they actually needed.

True. We lived at White Sands Missile Range half a century ago. From the top of the pass between White Sands and Las Cruces, NM, the track was clearly visible where the Butterfield Stage used to run a century before.

The desert has a long memory. Just look at the middle east, evidence of cities and irrigation canals and caravan routes all over the place.

 

[NorCal Dave]

When I think about it, this photograph is emblematic of UFOlogy today:

It's a blurry, grainy, manipulated, zoomed in section of a much larger aerial photo taken 5-6 years ago. If one then squints at some of the various bits of boosted contrasting desert colors, one supposedly sees clear evidence of secret hangers. Not just random secret hangers, but hangers that prove Lazar was telling the truth. For those wanting to believe Lazar in the face of overwhelming evidence he's making stuff up, here's another small tidbit to hang one's belief on.

I find it fascinating that 30 years later, people like Corbel or this MUFON guy Venditelli, keep trying to validate Lazar's stories. And almost as fascinating, is the offering of dubious or vague evidence in support, while completely ignoring anything contradictory. Prior to this film, Lazar had 2-3 main bits of evidence supporting his claims:

1. Knapp produced a telephone directory from Los Alamos National Lab, that included Lazar in the list of employees. He did work at the lab in the mid '80s.
2. The journalist who wrote about Lazar's jet car, said he was a "physicist" at the lab, so he must have vetted that fact before publishing it.
3. One physicist from the lab thought Lazar was a physicist because he looked and dressed like one.

Now we can add a photo of secret hangers that supposedly Lazar could not have known about, unless he actually went there. UFOlogists could say they have a pretty sturdy 3-4 legged stool now. But like so much of UFOlogy, it's all illusory.

Not only is the photo vague at best, it could have been checked against a vast amount of other data, including years of Google Earth. But no, it's just 1 vague photo.

The LANL phone directory with Lazar's name in it is real, but it also shows he worked for a contractor that supplied technicians, not physicists. IF Lazar was a physicist at the lab, he would not have been working for the contractor.

The article about his jet car was a puff piece. The idea that the journalist vetted Lazar's claims about being a physicist, is a 2nd hand claim from Corbel. It appears the journalist didn't vet anything Lazar was claiming, including the notion that an old '70s Honda Civic could attain 200+ MPH when boosted by the jet in it's trunk. Or Lazar's straight up false claim that the Gluhariff jet engine was far more efficient than any other design. Or the claims of how much thrust it created. None of it was vetted, including the claim of being a physicist.

Only one actual physicist from LANL even thought Lazar was a physicist, and he never confirmed it. He just felt Lazar looked like a physicist. This was likely due to Corbel's framing the question in a standard UFO false dichotomy. Corbel found one guy, that when he asked him was Lazar more like a physicist or a janitor, leaving out the idea that he was a technician.

Like so much of UFOlogy, when the evidence presented is examined, there's not much there, there. When counter arguments, like Lazar's non-existent school records, his various claims of involvement in prostitution, his bank bankruptcy, his failure to produce the E115 in his kitchen and others are brought up, they are ignored and supporters point back to the phone book, the jet car article and now some blurry dark areas on a photo.

 

[Ravi]

After watching and listening to the recent Rogan interview, I can for some bizar reason not say he comes across as crazy as all the other "ufo figures" of today. He consistently claims he is only interested in technology and doesn't know, or is interested in ufos. When Rogan again and again starts talking about some nonsense stuff (ufo abductions, Nolan's layared materials, underground Hawara metal found in Egypt), he dismisses most of it. He even says he only likes to talk about things he knows are true, at least by his believes. So when some b*llshit story is told, he does not go along with it. He does not know about most ufo cases, and does not engage in speculation.
This does NOT mean I think he is telling the truth though, but it does give him extra points by not behaving as some ufo lunatic.