The Lazar Development: Did Bob Lazar Borrow S-4 Details from 1976 SciFi Novel?

Searchterming the internet archive for "Papoose Lake" and filtering any results down to pre-Bob Lazar era publications, I happened upon a science fiction novel written by David Bergamini titled "Venus Development".

https://archive.org/details/venusdevelopment0000unse/mode/2up

Bergamini, an American author of history and popular science, published his novel in 1976 but it doesn't appear to have been a bestseller by any means. It does however feature several details that appear to resemble elements embedded within the account Bob Lazar provided to George Knapp more than a decade later, most notably in terms of the general geographical location of his alleged employment and some specific characteristics of the facility he claimed to have worked at.

AD_4nXfuW79Mds7SKyuPPlZ_u-yabDKCev386PLNu4sBRVPYYxjiMIjDvQ3sge6pZCFymUC7lKRWKWQPw0z-39k4G8fE3QoxfgsZUWFDFjGyDQwd3CSL5KtjWJLDnIwpLg24oA_gO7ZooQ


Without going into every fantastical detail, a short summary of the plot might be in order.

A team of top scientists from various disciplines is summoned by the powers that be to embark on a mission to find a supersecret facility thus far eluding the prying eyes of satellites and spy planes. Once found the team discovers that an insidious cabal of politicians and business moguls is planning to exploit the facility in the desert, containing an enormous quantity of space rockets, for their own evil purposes. The scientists however think otherwise as they set out to prevent the cabal from developing their plans.

Before I point out the possible parallels to the Bob Lazar story, it is perhaps of some interest to note that the lead character, a renowned astronomer named Eric Mann, studies the "brightness and spectra in a tiny area of sky known as Zeta Cancri- secor Z of the Crab constellation" (page 7) in his spare time, apparently with the goal of "weighing the universe and determining the gravitational braking force which slowed cosmic expansion".
Even more interesting is the fact that the person first summoning Mann to embark on his mission, is described as "Director of the Office of Naval Research", vaguely echoing Lazar's claim that his employer during his reverse engineering days at S-4 was the "Department of Naval Intelligence".

Anyway, as the team is transported by plane to what they first think is Washington DC, the pilot (Captain Gareth Evans, also of the "Office of Naval Research") informs them that they will be stopping over at Nellis Proving Ground before continuing on to a secret location "farther south in the Proving Grounds" (page 38):

AD_4nXd4_5OCKsrs1pQyRa0UXOCNLvAJLD_vC9hxhFLokSY86PUfcRyvC34PcCucDpe4TMdleGFr99PKLhk4z9bo7oxTO6zCjEyqmIWPDVuxicRKkn572YSHFO4jQx54KRkD3JxjWfAAwA



As the scientists assembled grow increasingly uneasy, captain Evans adds (page 39):

"I wish I could add to your impressions (...) I only know I'm to put you down at an installation just southeast of Papoose Lake.", adding: "I believe you're supposed to work there for a while before you proceed farther."

AD_4nXe9oLERA-ZlJoXQawq7xxvcdyKhRUSJl_sIBwiKjRVnylImKKApdD5AfF20_pBUltAXpRz1vWxnTW3tEb9g7mwygVX8fxLxJyEVgbv-29o4n53MilzDqFk1a1flm64IUgtFAutm


After the plane lands one of the scientists is moved to remark on the seclusiveness of their destination, commenting:

"Marvellous camouflage from those canyon walls. A facility easy to supply from the air… no prying tourists."

As the scientists set out to probe the area "just southeast of Papoose Lake" in search of the secret installation they are supposed to work at, Mann muses out loud on the possible ways such an installation might be successfully kept hidden (page 49/50):

"Have you ever considered (...) the problem of building a secret installation which would not be detected by spy satellites?"

"(...) you'd try to dig a big cave somewhere at night, wouldn't you?'
"Most like", one of the others responded.
"Worst time. Worst approach," said Mann. "Infrared sensors would pick up all power tools from surroundings of cold earth."


AD_4nXd97Ur0KBXfqYUIQXM18E1O3fbNoS0K-FVBrt-gz9pVLuZXs23jsDCxo14hNgs_meXVhs5wDdbwLjdfRFQAyANoty37YUB1Fvz8rjqdJ-tzL0-LPflstGiznynfCU1DYizpDJRiNQ


When they finally find the facility, they manage to enter it via a well-camouflaged hangar door on the side of the mountain. Once inside they find a complete scientific setup, including countless rockets built specifically for the purpose of moving the planet Venus into a new, more habitable orbit around the sun.

To say that these similarities, remarkable as they may be, conclusively hurt the Bob Lazar tale would be a bridge too far, but the fact that the parallels do not seem to have been noticed previously, let alone pointed out, do I think merit further exploration.
 
Note that Zeta Cancri is a real, multiple star system eighty-odd light years from Earth, so it is not really a 'secor' (or a sector) as such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta_Cancri
However it does include five stars orbiting around each other.

I doubt that this is a particularly hard science fiction story, especially if the author thinks that you could hide enough rockets to move Venus under an aluminium roof in the desert on Earth.
 
Note that Zeta Cancri is a real, multiple star system eighty-odd light years from Earth, so it is not really a 'secor' (or a sector) as such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta_Cancri
However it does include five stars orbiting around each other.

I doubt that this is a particularly hard science fiction story, especially if the author thinks that you could hide enough rockets to move Venus under an aluminium roof in the desert on Earth.
Although the author was a pretty well-established science writer in his day, I don't think his attempt at science fiction was overly impressive.

Fact of the matter is that the novel carries two quite distinct story elements we later see popping up in the Bob Lazar account (secret installation just off Papoose Lake and the idea of the labs camouflaged in order to blend into the landscape.
 
Also, did you like the book? Do you recommend it?
Off Topic, but... David Bergamini also wrote "Japan's Imperial Conspiracy". (1971) Bergamini spend WW2 interned in a Japanese Concentration Camp in the Philippines with his family. The book is an attempt to prove that Japanese Emperor Hirohito was the brains and drive beyond Japans participation in WW2. It is an interesting book, as I have read other books that used many of the same sources that Bergamini used and claim they prove that Hirohito had nothing to do with Japans participation in the war. Book is 1100 pages long.
 
Hard to say with 100% how he formed his story , that said there are things that point to other inspirations. For example.

Zeta Reticuli, the star system he claimed the aliens were from was in fact the famous system claimed to be were the aliens from the Betty and Barney story came from.

Bob also said that his friend Jim Tagliani worked at Tonopah Test Range. TTR is NW of A51 .
TTR actually did use the bone scanner Bob mentioned ie the Identimat 2000. They also have a Site 4. The actual Site 4 is a radar installation there where I believe they have appropriated foreign radar systems(like Russian) they use to fly US aircraft over to check there radar signatures .
This seems to me to be a more likely source for his S4 and Bone scanner story
As far as S4 being Site 4, in one video , Knapp (sitting next to Corbell) calls the range PR guy , he asks if they have a S4 there which Knapp then clarifies and says Site 4
 
Zeta Reticuli, the star system he claimed the aliens were from was in fact the famous system claimed to be were the aliens from the Betty and Barney story came from.
It's just occurred to me that nobody (and no non-human entity) knows what "constellation" they're from, because a constellation is a shape seen by an entirely different viewer from some particular distant viewpoint, and identified according to the imagination of that viewer. :D
 
Fact of the matter is that the novel carries two quite distinct story elements we later see popping up in the Bob Lazar account (secret installation just off Papoose Lake and the idea of the labs camouflaged in order to blend into the landscape.

Hi Jur Maessen, and welcome.

The similarities between locations in Venus Development and the, er, recollections of Bob Lazar might be coincidence.
I don't know how long Area 51 (including Papoose Lake) has been in the public consciousness (at least to aircraft enthusiasts, people interested in military matters or flying saucer conspiracy theorists) but it was purchased by the CIA and USAF back in 1955 (Wikipedia, Area 51 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51).

Due to the size of the operation there, originally test-flying U-2s and later OXCART/ A-12 and SR-71 (amongst other things) there must have been many hundreds, probably thousands of people "in the know" that something secret was going on there by 1976, so it was kind of a natural location for SF/ techno-thriller writers (and conspiracy theorists) to choose.

I would guess many varied labs/ defence establishments were camouflaged, or at least painted to be less conspicuous, during World War 2 when effective air attacks against industrial/ research/ command targets became a reality. Some of course were sited in bunkers, a practice that continued through the Cold War.
 
It's just occurred to me that nobody (and no non-human entity) knows what "constellation" they're from, because a constellation is a shape seen by an entirely different viewer from some particular distant viewpoint, and identified according to the imagination of that viewer.

Yes. A single rolled-up 2-D map showing the sky as seen from Earth might not be the best way to navigate a superluminal craft across several solar systems either (Betty Hill's map supposedly had lines representing trade routes between systems on it).

In recent years, with all the real-world research into folding and flexible screens, UFO enthusiasts have argued that Betty's map was actually a screen. So it must have been just good luck that it was portraying a picture of the stars as seen from Earth when the alien took it out of the "cupboard"; Betty didn't relate the ET manipulating the map in any way IIRC (apart from unrolling it).
As far as I know, Betty never said the map resembled a screen.
 
I find the comparison of science fiction with supposedly real UFO stories fascinating. Philosophy professor Bertrand Méheust did a lot of the heavy lifting of trawling through old science fiction & proto science fiction and comparing them to contemporary UFO reports. [writing in the late 1970s].
In his two books Science Fiction et Soucoupes Volantes [Science Fiction and Flying Saucers] (1978) and Flying Saucers and Folklore (1992) are a mine of information and staggering coincidences between fiction and "realities".

What I take from them is that UFO lore often has incredibly (uncannily) precise antecedents in literature. Méheust apparently seems to do a lot of work for sceptics, who can argue that "it's all based on SF"—but he's not one himself. He can't get over the fact that there is so much coincidence and no easily determined means of diffusion of ideas. For example he sees a strong parallel with an obscure French SF story from around 1900 with an alien abduction story from rural US and can't see how those ideas could have travelled, (I strongly disagree - but there you go).

So, It's not surprising that a SF story from the 1970s might have similarities with UFO claims from the 1980s. Lazar had a broad and deep well of ideas and concepts to draw from to concoct his fantasy.
 
Due to the size of the operation there, originally test-flying U-2s and later OXCART/ A-12 and SR-71 (amongst other things) there must have been many hundreds, probably thousands of people "in the know" that something secret was going on there by 1976, so it was kind of a natural location for SF/ techno-thriller writers (and conspiracy theorists) to choose.
OT: in the 1960s, another such site, White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, was pointed out on a map as the site of something mysterious going on. This took place in a movie (sorry, I can't remember which one), but the audience of which we were a part broke up in laughter, because we were all sitting right there in WSMR, just where the actor was pointing.
 
Last edited:
"Papoose Lake" caught my eye, because we have a charming little lake by that name
in California's stunning Trinity Alps. I looked for some (of my) pics, but couldn't find any
on my computer...it's been over a decade since I did that particular hike, and gorgeous
pics surely exist, but on an external hard drive, somewhere.
(My fault for letting J. Tedesco "archive" them!)

It's the sort of lovely spot that would be celebrated were it just about anywhere else. But, by Trinity Alps standards, it's unimpressive. Stunning Grizzly Lake, and my fav:
the 4-lake Caribou Basin are both less than 5 miles away, and breathtakingly gorgeous.

The area "just southeast of Papoose Lake" will yield you some needed clean, cold water from
East Fork, North Fork, Trinity River...but I don't think anyone could pull off a "secret installation" there.
 
Last edited:
He can't get over the fact that there is so much coincidence and no easily determined means of diffusion of ideas. For example he sees a strong parallel with an obscure French SF story from around 1900 with an alien abduction story from rural US and can't see how those ideas could have travelled, (I strongly disagree - but there you go).

Along those same lines, I mentioned in another thread somewhere Jason Colavito's book The Cult of Ancient Gods. In it he makes the argument that the sy-fy/horror fiction of H.P. Lovecraft from '20s-'30s era pulps, made their way to Europe as cheap paperbacks for GIs in WW2. The stories were picked up there, particularly in France by people like Louis Pauwels and Jacques Bergier, who thought they were real, or were fictionalized version of real things or whatever. They ended up publishing a book that sorta said ideas in the stories were real, but maybe not, but maybe yes, the English version of which is called The Morning of the Magicians. Eric Von Daikan read the German version and then cribbed a lot of it to produce Chariot's of the Gods. Thus, the TV show Ancient Aliens and similar stuff traces back to Lovecraft's fiction.

There has always been a large amount of cross-pollination in the UFO world, and I suspect Lazar is no exception.
 
the sy-fy/horror fiction of H.P. Lovecraft from '20s-'30s era pulps, made their way to Europe
Yes, but there's a lot of scholarship on the diffusion from Europe, particularly France, to the US of merveilleux-scientifique. Science Fiction of the late 1800s was writing about and drawing flying saucers and secret bases and alien abductions at least two decades before they appeared in American pulps.

For example: La Vie Électrique by Albert Robida, 1893
1737969588769.png

Extraordinary Adventures of One Russian Scholar.
Georges Le Faure & Henry de Graffigny, 1889-1896.
1737969741228.png

La Fin d'Illa - José Moselli, 1925
Screenshot 2023-09-12 at 15.24.18.png
 
I would guess many varied labs/ defence establishments were camouflaged, or at least painted to be less conspicuous, during World War 2 when effective air attacks against industrial/ research/ command targets became a reality.
In the continental United States, air attacks were hypothetical at best, until 2001.
 
Although the author was a pretty well-established science writer in his day, I don't think his attempt at science fiction was overly impressive.

Fact of the matter is that the novel carries two quite distinct story elements we later see popping up in the Bob Lazar account (secret installation just off Papoose Lake and the idea of the labs camouflaged in order to blend into the landscape.
Regarding the second story element (labs camouflaged to blend into the landscape) mentioned. That's not an uncommon theme in sci-fi, even in the 1970's. For example the "Wildfire" lab in The Andromeda Strain, was disguised as an "in the middle of nowhere" Department of Agriculture site, complete with hidden lift down into it, disguised as a supply closet.
 
Regarding the second story element (labs camouflaged to blend into the landscape) mentioned. That's not an uncommon theme in sci-fi, even in the 1970's. For example the "Wildfire" lab in The Andromeda Strain, was disguised as an "in the middle of nowhere" Department of Agriculture site, complete with hidden lift down into it, disguised as a supply closet.
See also: TV's "Get Smart" or the "Men in Black" movies...
 
Regarding the second story element (labs camouflaged to blend into the landscape) mentioned. That's not an uncommon theme in sci-fi, even in the 1970's. For example the "Wildfire" lab in The Andromeda Strain, was disguised as an "in the middle of nowhere" Department of Agriculture site, complete with hidden lift down into it, disguised as a supply closet.
The logistics of which never make sense to me. Do you know how many FedEx deliveries your typical research institution gets in a day?
 
See also: TV's "Get Smart" or the "Men in Black" movies...
The MiB base is in a major city, with the entrances disguised. Which makes sense: it's best to hide something secret where it's busy, but in a corner nobody's looking.

The base out in the boondocks is great if you want access control, because you can spot unannounced visitors easily. But its existence won't be a secret.
 
Yes, but there's a lot of scholarship on the diffusion from Europe, particularly France, to the US of merveilleux-scientifique. Science Fiction of the late 1800s was writing about and drawing flying saucers and secret bases and alien abductions at least two decades before they appeared in American pulps

Yes, even the more well-known Juels Verne stories. I'm not saying Colavito's work is the total answer and as I haven't read it in years, he may very well have included the SyFy of France as a precursor to Lovecraft. I'll have to take a look at it again.

Either way, I think his main point is that Pauwel and Bergier take the works of Lovecraft, possibly inspired by the merveilleux-scientifique and or some of their own home grown French SyFy and suggest it's real. They're vague about it. The back cover of my copy of The Morning of the Magicians sums it up this way:

External Quote:

It is not science-fictions, although it cites myths on which that literary form has fed. Nor is it a collection of bizarre facts, though the Angle of the Bizarre might well find himself at home in it. It is not a scientific contribution, a vehicle for an exotic teaching, a testament, a document, a fable.

It is simply an account - at times figurative, at times factual - of a first excursion into some as yet scarcely explored realms of consciousness
The Morning of the Macigians, 2001 edition

They're not making any direct claims, nor are they denying any. Seems very French. It's Von Danikan that takes their musings and runs with it creating Chariots of the Gods and the whole Ancient Aliens franchise. Von Danikan gets credited with starting the idea of visiting aliens being worshiped as Gods in ancient times. I don't know about the merveilleux-scientifique, but Lovecraft certainly was vamping on the idea of aliens as Gods prior to Von Danikan. It's the main plot to The Call of Cthulhu from 1928.

As for Lazar, he could have read and seen any number of sources during the '60s and '70s that eventually fed his stories of the late '80s. Secret underground bases were not a new idea, as @purpleivan noted above, Michael Crichton's The Andromeda Strain included one and it was depicted in the 1971 film version. The 1967 Bond film, You Only Live Twice included a secret volcano lair.

In the early '80s, despite claiming to be a physicist at Los Alamos National Labs, Lazar has a side hustle running a drive-up Photo Developing and shipping business. He declares bankruptcy in '86 and skips town with his soon to be 2nd wife who had just been arrested for bank fraud. Meanwhile he was still married to his 1st wife, who was convicted of 2nd murder and ran around with the Hell's Angles.

Of note, after leaving Los Alamos NM, he ends up in Las Vegas and is running around out in the desert blowing things up and starting what would become Desert Blast:

1738002263687.png


Desert Blast 13 was in 1999, so that would put the start in '86, when Lazar shows up in Las Vegas. So, as soon as he arrives in the Vegas area, he's running around out in the desert looking for places to blow up shit, presumably with locals that are more familiar with the area. He could have read about Papoose Lake in the book, Venus Development or he just learned about it from locals while searching the desert.

While the exact name of Groom Lake/Area 51 may not have been common in mid '80s Las Vegas, most people were still aware that the Nevada test site, Nellis AFB and lots of other government facilities were nearby. I'd like to see a detailed side x side of Lazar's claims with section of the book in question. Right now, I'd imagine a lot of what Lazar claimed and like things in the book, was just part of the UFO zeitgeist of the time combined with his living in the Las Vegas area.
 
It's just occurred to me that nobody (and no non-human entity) knows what "constellation" they're from, because a constellation is a shape seen by an entirely different viewer from some particular distant viewpoint, and identified according to the imagination of that viewer. :D
Pow! Evidence that all those who claim aliens came from any given constellation are full of it.
 
t's just occurred to me that nobody (and no non-human entity) knows what "constellation" they're from, because a constellation is a shape seen by an entirely different viewer from some particular distant viewpoint, and identified according to the imagination of that viewer.
I believe the CLAIM is that stars on a map were identified in the Hill case, and those stars happened to be in a particular constellation as seen from Earth. The validity of that claim has been disputed, I suppose we could do a thread on it if anybody feels the need...
 
The MiB base is in a major city, with the entrances disguised. Which makes sense: it's best to hide something secret where it's busy, but in a corner nobody's looking.
Or when someone does notice, you just tell them "don't worry about it" and, surprisingly, they won't!

You think I'm being facetious, but I know of a "secret" major construction project carried out in broad daylight without anyone really knowing or caring it happened. Just south of the Jefferson Memorial, about 20 years ago, the Navy started building...something... When the NPS and NCPC and every other group overseeing DC public works complained about it, the Navy said "ok fine whatever" and briefed them about it. After the briefing, they said "don't worry about it!" in the Washington Post. Whatever it was took ten years of empty dump trucks going into a building and loaded dump trucks leaving. Tens of thousands of people drive by it every day and probably don't even know there's a secret project hiding in plain site.

Now there's a little building with a whole lot of ventilation fans on the roof sitting there without any clear purpose.
 
While the exact name of Groom Lake/Area 51 may not have been common in mid '80s Las Vegas, most people were still aware that the Nevada test site, Nellis AFB and lots of other government facilities were nearby. I'd like to see a detailed side x side of Lazar's claims with section of the book in question. Right now, I'd imagine a lot of what Lazar claimed and like things in the book, was just part of the UFO zeitgeist of the time combined with his living in the Las Vegas area.
I quite agree, and point well taken.
My initial feeling was and is that Lazar drew from several sources, both- as you say- from contemporary ufo memes (most prominently inspired by John Lear, most likely) and several scifi ones, the distinction of course being less obvious than here suggested.

I'll work on that more detailed analysis just as soon as I get a chance, but time is not my friend at the moment.
 
(most prominently inspired by John Lear, most likely

Indeed, it seems likely that back in '89, it was Lear that introduced Knapp to Lazar:

External Quote:

In March 1989, Lear journeyed to the outskirts of "Area 51".[33] Lear introduced journalist George Knapp to UFO whistle-blower Bob Lazar and his tales of Area 51.[17][34] On May 15, 1989, KLAS-TV broadcast a live interview between George Knapp and a man clad in shadow and using the pseudonym "Dennis". The following November, Lazar again appeared, this time unmasked and under his own name.[35]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lear
 
It seems very likely Lear introed Lazar to Knap, especially given both Knapp and Lear said that's what happened if I remember right. Also, when Lazar gave his first interview in silhouette and was introduced as Dennis. This interview was conducted in Lears driveway
 
In the continental United States, air attacks were hypothetical at best, until 2001.

Yes, but the concept of secretive government/ military establishments being disguised would have been known, at least to some thriller / science fiction fans and people interested in contemporary military subjects before Bergamini's Venus Development of 1976.
 
Yes, but the concept of secretive government/ military establishments being disguised would have been known, at least to some thriller / science fiction fans and people interested in contemporary military subjects before Bergamini's Venus Development of 1976.

Haven't had much time to check in here last two or three days, but the example given by @purpleivan of the Wildfire lab in Andromeda Strain, and NorCal Dave's mention of the volcano in You Only Live Twice would seem to be on the button.

And there's The Thunderbird's Tracy Island,
External Quote:
Tracy Island is the secret headquarters of the International Rescue organisation in the 1960s British Supermarionation television series Thunderbirds...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Island, with its hidden hangars and launch pads for high-tech aircraft/ spacecraft.

Edited to add: My point being, Lazar need not necessarily have been influenced by The Venus Development, the suggestion made in the OP.
 
Last edited:
My point being, Lazar need not necessarily have been influenced by The Venus Development, the suggestion made in the OP
I agree, many/most/all of this seems to be pretty standard tropes in scifi stuff involving secret agencies and the more fanciful spy stories.
 
I would guess many varied labs/ defence establishments were camouflaged, or at least painted to be less conspicuous, during World War 2 when effective air attacks against industrial/ research/ command targets became a reality. Some of course were sited in bunkers, a practice that continued through the Cold War.
Maybe a little OT, but how about a fictional disguised lab/lair that entered popular culture during WW2?
Batman's famous Batcave, seen here in a daily strip from October 1943.

nananananananana.jpg

via https://archive.org/details/batman-the-dailies-1943-1946-2007/page/n21/mode/2up
 
Obviously the concept of secret installations camouflaged by natural geological structures is by no means unique within the genre of science fiction; it's the close association, geolocation-wise, with Papoose Lake that made me raise an eyebrow. The mention of an "Office of Naval Research" by order of which the team of scientists were gathered together to that specific location, made me raise my eyebrow even higher.

If we allow ourselves, in any case, to speculate for a moment on the feasibility of the suggestion Lazar might have borrowed the Papoose Lake/in-mountain laboratory association from Bergamini, it would likely be just one detail out of many possible science fiction-based sources employed to build his fantastical narrative. Like some ufological Keyser Söze.
 
Back
Top