Ryan Grave's Description of a 100-Yard Red Square over Vandenberg AFB

[Mick West]

LUNA: My next question would actually be for Mr. Graves. Can you please explain to me in detail the event that occurred at Vandenberg Air Force Base?

GRAVES: Certainly. In the 2003 timeframe, a large group of Boeing contractors were operating near one of the launch facilities at Vandenberg Air Force Base when they observed a very large, 100 yard sided, red square approached the base from the ocean and hover at low altitude over one of the launch facilities. This object remained for about 45 seconds or so before darting off over the mountains. There was a similar event within 24 hours later in the evening. This was a morning event, I believe, 8:45 in the morning. Later, in the evening, post sunset, there were reports of other sightings on base, including some aggressive behaviors, these objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off. And this is information that was received through one of the witnesses that have approached me Americans for Safe aerospace.

LUNA: Was this documented in any official form, whether it was a police blotter?

GRAVES: Yes, they had official documentation and records from the event that the witness held over the years.

LUNA: And I'm not going to ask you to do right now for time reasons. But you'd be able to sketch what it was, correct?. And you've have you seen that before on any other equipment and/or during your flight time.

GRAVES: I have not seen what they've described, this object was estimated to be almost the size of a football field. And I have not seen anything personally that large.

Content from External Source

This is a 20-year-old single witness account, but with (reported) supporting documentation. Vandenberg AFB is just up the coast from Los Angeles, California.




I've driven past it a few times on PCH (Pacific Coast Highway, Hwy 1). Unlike "Area 51", it's not that isolated. However, Graves says "a very large, 100 yard sided, red square approached the base from the ocean and hover at low altitude over one of the launch facilities". This suggests something like the space launch complex nearer the ocean, or perhaps further north.



The area is surrounded by mountains, so "darting off over the mountains" could be any direction over land.

There's not a lot you can do with such a vague description, but maybe more info will come out later.

 

[Mick West]

Here's a football field, 500m in the air.



This is so low information, I don't think I'll bother more with it.

 

[Mendel]

Can we figure out if the contractors were working inside or outside? Because simple shapes with high speeds tend to be reflections and the like, so if there was a big window (or a glass wall) that might be a possibility.

 

[John J.]

Vandenberg Air Force Base (now Space Force Base) is a fairly substantial set-up, isn't it?
Something red, square-shaped, a 100 yards a side, would be visible for quite some way around if it was above a launch facility.

Why would only Boeing contractors see it?
No bored clerks or canteen staff looking out the window? No airmen nipping outside for a crafty cigarette?

 

[Mendel]

Why would only Boeing contractors see it?

I don't think he claimed that?

But if it's true, it'd support my reflection hypothesis.

 

[JimJam]

I wonder where representative Luna got this question from, and why was it directed at Ryan Graves if he wasn't a direct witness. If this is the first public reveal of this case it was planned in such a way to create an air of legitimacy, UFO fans will now be able to say it must be true because otherwise Ryan Graves would be lying to congress and risking gaol time.

 

[Eburacum]

If this is a single witness account it isn't very impressive, since there appear to be no photos, film clips or radar detections available, and it only lasted 45 seconds. In that short period, I have strong doubts that the witness could even make an accurate assessment of its size or distance. I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that this witness was one of the Boeing contractors, but we don't have any accounts from the other members of the group.

Having said that, no doubt more accounts will turn up in the near future, now that it is in the public arena. This would not necessarily corroborate the account, but it would be interesting.

 

[Eburacum]

I did ask a question earlier about Graves' status as a direct witness. He almost always talks in the plural ('we' saw this, and 'we' saw that). Is there any particular event which he claims to have seen himself?

 

[Duke]

I wonder where representative Luna got this question from, and why was it directed at Ryan Graves if he wasn't a direct witness. If this is the first public reveal of this case it was planned in such a way to create an air of legitimacy, UFO fans will now be able to say it must be true because otherwise Ryan Graves would be lying to congress and risking gaol time.

I think Rep Luna was one of those on the panel who mentioned having spoken to the witnesses prior to the hearing. A reasonable assumption is he related the tale to her during a previous meeting and it sounded spectacular enough to her have it entered into the Congressional record.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Vandenburg does not appear in the 177 pages of "stuff" (UFO cases) that is the debrief giving before the hearing as far as I can find. I thought if it was brought up, maybe it would be in the PDF.
https://pdfhost.io/v/gR8lAdgVd_Uap_Timeline_Prepared_By_Another

 

[ManInBlack]

LUNA: My next question would actually be for Mr. Graves. Can you please explain to me in detail the event that occurred at Vandenberg Air Force Base?

GRAVES: Certainly. In the 2003 timeframe, a large group of Boeing contractors were operating near one of the launch facilities at Vandenberg Air Force Base when they observed a very large, 100 yard sided, red square approached the base from the ocean and hover at low altitude over one of the launch facilities. This object remained for about 45 seconds or so before darting off over the mountains. There was a similar event within 24 hours later in the evening. This was a morning event, I believe, 8:45 in the morning. Later, in the evening, post sunset, there were reports of other sightings on base, including some aggressive behaviors, these objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off. And this is information that was received through one of the witnesses that have approached me Americans for Safe aerospace.

LUNA: Was this documented in any official form, whether it was a police blotter?

GRAVES: Yes, they had official documentation and records from the event that the witness held over the years.

LUNA: And I'm not going to ask you to do right now for time reasons. But you'd be able to sketch what it was, correct?. And you've have you seen that before on any other equipment and/or during your flight time.

GRAVES: I have not seen what they've described, this object was estimated to be almost the size of a football field. And I have not seen anything personally that large.

Content from External Source

This is a 20-year-old single witness account, but with (reported) supporting documentation. Vandenberg AFB is just up the coast from Los Angeles, California.




I've driven past it a few times on PCH (Pacific Coast Highway, Hwy 1). Unlike "Area 51", it's not that isolated. However, Graves says "a very large, 100 yard sided, red square approached the base from the ocean and hover at low altitude over one of the launch facilities". This suggests something like the space launch complex nearer the ocean, or perhaps further north.



The area is surrounded by mountains, so "darting off over the mountains" could be any direction over land.

There's not a lot you can do with such a vague description, but maybe more info will come out later.

- Where is the direct witness statement?
- Where is the radar data?
- Where are the photos or videos?
- Where was the exact location of the sighting?

No wonder these stories aren't taken seriously, doesn't add much to the credibility of this subject. The more of these LIZ cases the more the topic will be stigmatized.

 

[Edward Current]

Here's a football field, 500m in the air.



This is so low information, I don't think I'll bother more with it.

I don't find this image to be useful. What's the field of view angle? How far away is the field? How does that compare with what one would actually see with the naked eye on site from a certain vantage point, or what one would see when directly underneath it? There should be a way to represent this, but peripheral vision and the boundary are tricky to represent.

It's like how a total solar eclipse always looks a certain way in pictures, but when you see one in person it's larger in the sky and more astonishing than you expected.

 

[MapperGuy]

Something that happened a while ago.
Long enough ago that no security camera footage would be available to document the event?
Accounts of things that happened "way back when" are harder to confirm or refute, so we should expect more of them.

 

[JMartJr]

⁷

I don't find this image to be useful. What's the field of view angle? How far away is the field? How does that compare with what one would actually see with the naked eye on site from a certain vantage point, or what one would see when directly underneath it?

if my math is correct, a 100 yard object would appear about .5 degree (similar to a full moon in the sky) at about 34, 500 feet.

 

[Hougenai]

Vandenberg Air Force Base (now Space Force Base) is a fairly substantial set-up, isn't it?
Something red, square-shaped, a 100 yards a side, would be visible for quite some way around if it was above a launch facility.

Why would only Boeing contractors see it?
No bored clerks or canteen staff looking out the window? No airmen nipping outside for a crafty cigarette?

"these objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off"-Graves

Or none of these security guards who would be expected, duty bound, to make and record any incidents where security may be compromised.

 

[deirdre]

This was a morning event, I believe, 8:45 in the morning

red skies in morning, sailor take warning. (i imagine 8:45 is too late for that?)

sounds like one of those square clouds things.


his safety company is only 5 monthso ld

Article:

ExperienceExperience

Executive DirectorExecutive Director
Americans for Safe Aerospace · Full-timeAmericans for Safe Aerospace · Full-time
Mar 2023 - Present · 5 mosMar 2023 - Present · 5 mos
United States

Source: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whygraves/

so 20 year old memory

 

[Eburacum]

I'm wondering if this sighting was some sort of flare event. We know that reddish flares are used on occasion, as seen at Twenty-Nine palms.


The flare event at Twenty-Nine palms was very roughly football-field sized.

 

[Ann K]

I'm wondering if this sighting was some sort of flare event. We know that reddish flares are used on occasion, as seen at Twenty-Nine palms.


The flare event at Twenty-Nine palms was very roughly football-field sized.

If red flares were visible AND there was a thin layer of mist at altitude, the whole thing could have appeared to be red in color.

 

[Mendel]

If these were flares with lots of glare, then them going out would visually correspond to them getting smaller, which could give the impression of them moving away into the distance (while not changing position). However, as long as there aren't any witnesses to question, this is difficult to resolve.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Am I right in assuming that it looks like Luna or her staff were already in contact with Graves before the hearings? I know that happens, but this seems to be an awfully obscure case that Luna new to ask Graves about. It gets entered into the record as "this happened" and so far it can't be debunked because nobody can find out about it.

 

[JMartJr]

Am I right in assuming that it looks like Luna or her staff were already in contact with Graves before the hearings? I know that happens, but this seems to be an awfully obscure case that Luna new to ask Graves about. It gets entered into the record as "this happened" and so far it can't be debunked because nobody can find out about it.

I would assume so, especially since at one point her colleague Mr. Burchett thought he was going to be chairing the meeting. Knowing what to ask while the witness is under oath in a short hearing would require some prior communication.

As an citation:

Before officially inviting a witness, committee staff identify and often interview prospective
witnesses

Content from External Source

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/98-304.pdf

 

[Mendel]

Am I right in assuming that it looks like Luna or her staff were already in contact with Graves before the hearings?

Yes.

Looking at this tweet from Anna Paulina Luna

 

[Ravi]

I also remember Mr. Burchett mentioning a "dinner together" very briefly, during his opening talk. I paraphrased.

 

[deirdre]

Am I right in assuming that it looks like Luna or her staff were already in contact with Graves before the hearings? I know that happens, but this seems to be an awfully obscure case that Luna new to ask Graves about. It gets entered into the record as "this happened" and so far it can't be debunked because nobody can find out about it.

I'm actually wondering if she mixed up two cases he had told her about.

If i had documentation on a case i knew would be brought up at a congressional hearing, i wouldnt have to say "i believe, 8:45..". I would say "it occured October 15th 2003 at 6:45 a.m."

and then she asks about "other equipment" , but he made no indication the red square was on any equipment in the first place. and his whole final answer sounds to me like he is distancing himself from that particular case.

 

[Alien Chess Fiend]

Vandenburg does not appear in the 177 pages of "stuff" (UFO cases) that is the debrief giving before the hearing as far as I can find. I thought if it was brought up, maybe it would be in the PDF.
https://pdfhost.io/v/gR8lAdgVd_Uap_Timeline_Prepared_By_Another

There are matches for "Vandenberg" with an e, but none of them are the Graves case. "Football" doesn't find it either but the third match is very amusing.

What's the deal with the document though? Is it known who created it and did it get entered into the record?

 

[MonkeeSage]

The page for the hearing seems to be the below, but only includes the prepared witness statements. I don't seen any other documents but we know more where entered into the record (e.g., from Knapp/Corbell entered by Rep. Burchett). Anyone know where to find all the documents that were entered into the hearing record?

https://oversight.house.gov/hearing...ty-public-safety-and-government-transparency/

 

[Scaramanga]

GRAVES: I have not seen what they've described, this object was estimated to be almost the size of a football field. And I have not seen anything personally that large.

Same old issue. If one does not know what an object is....how can one possibly determine its distance or size ? You have to know distance to determine size, and you have to know size to determine distance. If you don't have any idea what an object actually is, you cannot possibly say it was football field sized.

 

[Amathia]

@Mick West ,

I know this is a longshot, but Graves says this:

"And this is information that was received through one of the witnesses that have approached me Americans for Safe aerospace."

Given your status as lord Voldemort I don't expect him to be willing to share with you, but just in case, do you think if you messaged him to see if he'd be willing to share any of the info or documentation he received from this witness he'd be open to sharing with you?

 

[deirdre]

lord Voldemort

does Mick even know who Lord Voldemort is? (to be honest im not sure who Lord Voldemort is..as far as what he did anyway to get a bad reputation. Do you know Nurse Ratchet?)

 

[Mick West]

do you think if you messaged him to see if he'd be willing to share any of the info or documentation he received from this witness he'd be open to sharing with you?

I've asked him, he didn't respond to my last few messages though.

 

[Amathia]

does Mick even know who Lord Voldemort is? (to be honest im not sure who Lord Voldemort is..as far as what he did anyway to get a bad reputation. Do you know Nurse Ratchet?)

Harry Potter villain. I do know Nurse Ratchet, even though that movie is older than I am by 14 years.

 

[Ann K]

Harry Potter villain. I do know Nurse Ratchet, even though that movie is older than I am by 14 years.

I have (step)grandchildren older than you ...but I know who Voldemort is!

 

[Lu Ann Lewellen]

But there must be more than one flying football field. Just ask Grusch.

Extraordinarily, Grusch even claimed that some of the vehicles contained the bodies of pilots, and that some of the spacecraft were “very large, like a football field kinda size.”

Grusch stated that the vehicles were not “necessarily extraterrestrial,” and speculated that they might come from another dimension, stating, “as somebody who studied physics, where maybe they’re coming from a different physical dimension, as described in quantum mechanics.”

Content from External Source

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidi...sch-are-pure-science-fiction/?sh=3d0f41313a41

 

[AmberRobot]

Same old issue. If one does not know what an object is....how can one possibly determine its distance or size ? You have to know distance to determine size, and you have to know size to determine distance. If you don't have any idea what an object actually is, you cannot possibly say it was football field sized.

Perhaps it was graduated in yards. A football field has a very distinct look.

 

[AmberRobot]

But there must be more than one flying football field. Just ask Grusch.

Extraordinarily, Grusch even claimed that some of the vehicles contained the bodies of pilots, and that some of the spacecraft were “very large, like a football field kinda size.”

Grusch stated that the vehicles were not “necessarily extraterrestrial,” and speculated that they might come from another dimension, stating, “as somebody who studied physics, where maybe they’re coming from a different physical dimension, as described in quantum mechanics.”

Content from External Source

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidi...sch-are-pure-science-fiction/?sh=3d0f41313a41

As somebody who studied physics I know that there are not extra dimensions in quantum mechanics as taught to undergraduates. There are in string theory, which is not a proven theory by any stretch. And those extra dimensions in string theory are extremely tiny.

He’s throwing around the word “dimension” in a colloquial (sci-if) sense while attempting to tie it to a technical field to establish credibility. This type of thing reeks of disingenuousness to those who actually understand physics.

 

[Lu Ann Lewellen]

As somebody who studied physics I know that there are not extra dimensions in quantum mechanics as taught to undergraduates. There are in string theory, which is not a proven theory by any stretch. And those extra dimensions in string theory are extremely tiny.

He’s throwing around the word “dimension” in a colloquial (sci-if) sense while attempting to tie it to a technical field to establish credibility. This type of thing reeks of disingenuousness to those who actually understand physics.

But he has a degree in physics. He says so himself.

I thought Graves' story might have been Grusch's inspiration but it seems others have been seeing football fields as well. Maybe they're mother.....ships.

 

[deirdre]

But there must be more than one flying football field. Just ask Grusch.

Extraordinarily, Grusch even claimed that some of the vehicles contained the bodies of pilots, and that some of the spacecraft were “very large, like a football field kinda size.”

Grusch stated that the vehicles were not “necessarily extraterrestrial,” and speculated that they might come from another dimension, stating, “as somebody who studied physics, where maybe they’re coming from a different physical dimension, as described in quantum mechanics.”

Content from External Source

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidi...sch-are-pure-science-fiction/?sh=3d0f41313a41

i saw a site earlier i searched, it has lots of football field size ufos (not all 74 are football field size..maybe 10 are ufos sighted on a football field.)


https://www.sweetstudy.com/files/scrubbed-csv

 

[AmberRobot]

But he has a degree in physics. He says so himself.

Which makes his comment a bit surprising. But perhaps he didn’t really understand it well and likely hasn’t continued to use it or went on to further study the subject.

Do we know what his actual transcript says and from what’s school his putative physics degree is from?

I thought Graves' story might have been Grusch's inspiration but it seems others have been seeing football fields as well. Maybe they're mother.....ships.

 

[Lu Ann Lewellen]

Which makes his comment a bit surprising. But perhaps he didn’t really understand it well and likely hasn’t continued to use it or went on to further study the subject.

Do we know what his actual transcript says and from what’s school his putative physics degree is from?

Someone on another thread found he has a bachelor's degree from somewhere. I'll see if I can find that again.

 

[Lu Ann Lewellen]

Which makes his comment a bit surprising. But perhaps he didn’t really understand it well and likely hasn’t continued to use it or went on to further study the subject.

Do we know what his actual transcript says and from what’s school his putative physics degree is from?

From Ann K:

From a quick google search, "2009 Bachelor of Science Degree, Physics, Minor in German, University of Pittsburgh".
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/... Degree, University of Colorado (In-Progress)

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/house-oversight-hearing-on-uaps-july-26-2023.13049/post-296122