Plane with Yellow Tail over Redding, CA [Polar Air Cargo Flight]

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Igrokush1

Member
I took this yesterday it's going east/west directly over redding, I could actually see the plane close, so I got out binoculars and snapped a shot from my phone through them. I can tell it's not a passenger jet, and it has a yellow tail. I'll look into other possible alternatives to identify aircraft

 
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Igrokush1

Member
Geez, my phone is hardly compatible with the site, service here in the woods sometimes sucks. Apologies everyone
image.jpg
 
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Igrokush1

Member
Sorry, I am a bit confused as to what you meant, here.

You took the photo of the boom on the tail of the KC-135 that was modified to spray a mist of water?

ADDING:


I am still confused as to which image is being referred.

Still, though....a passenger airliner with a yellow tail?


reference website: http://worldairlinenews.com/2012/07/

(You will have to scroll down, only a small way down).
that might be accurate if that particular airline flies around here, but it does not. And the shape and size don't match up. I saw it
 
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Igrokush1

Member
Further, this plane is on a clear downward descent in an area of redding where there are zero airports
 
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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
this plane is on a clear downward descent in an area of redding where there are zero airports
I looked at your photo, and no. That is not a "downward descent". I think it's been explained previously how perspective plays tricks on our perception.

QUOTE from "MikeC", just above is accurate:
That doesn't look like a downward descent to me - it's just going away from you towards the horizon.
There are relevant threads that explain this, here on MB. I will jump off and search for them.

Before I go, I want to add quickly: Many here are trying to help, by debunking what are (please no offense) common misconceptions. This is partly because there is a divergent community (here) of many aspects of experience levels. But, often it boils down to personal, life experience that is attempted to be shared, to help others to comprehend.

NEVER is it meant as disparaging. It is hoped that info here is looked at and then "vetted", by whatever means. In order to verify it. The Internet has become a very interesting place, and of course....not everything that a person reads (on the Internet) is necessarily accurate. "Vetting" involves digging deeper. Into the "source". This is what most professional journalists do, and have always done. It is not "easy"...but it is the best, most accurate method.

(Edit)....trying to find relevant threads. This one is useful (though, not here I guess) to explain the "patterns" of contrails:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/contrail-pattern-simulator.3157/

There is a recent post that shows how distance plays a role in the "illusion" that a contrail, although it is perfectly horizontal to the plane of the Earth's surface, appears to be "lowering" as it get farther away. (Think about this: The Earth is curved, yes? Thus, the contrail is "curved" too (on a HUGE scale, of course)....even though the airplane remains at the SAME height above the ground!).

The above is also seen, at ground level, when a viewer using a telescope watches a ship go "below" the horizon, as it sails away.....
 
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Igrokush1

Member
Geez Louise I'm trying! Uploading pics in areas with little to no reception is
I think you need to trim your quote and include the picture your took!![/QUOTE
mikec, what I'm saying is that ANY chemical of concentration will fry foliage, to put it simply. Any yes, in fact, roundup kills bugs without killing plants. It's called roundup ready crops. They are GMO's. A very common term in the horticultural community. They involve the coding of genes, and with the proper sequence, another gene from a completely different species is spliced in using a 'gene gun' which uses gold coated pellets to permeate the cell wall in order to get the gene in. I'm sure you have heard of Monsanto, he's not a fictional name. Watch videos of his productions, and they may more clearly explain how roundup kills bugs without killing plants.
I looked at your photo, and no. That is not a "downward descent". I think it's been explained previously how perspective plays tricks on our perception.

QUOTE from "MikeC", just above is accurate:


There are relevant threads that explain this, here on MB. I will jump off and search for them.

Before I go, I want to add quickly: Many here are trying to help, by debunking what are (please no offense) common misconceptions. This is partly because there is a divergent community (here) of many aspects of experience levels. But, often it boils down to personal, life experience that is attempted to be shared, to help others to comprehend.

NEVER is it meant as disparaging. It is hoped that info here is looked at and then "vetted", by whatever means. In order to verify it. The Internet has become a very interesting place, and of course....not everything that a person reads (on the Internet) is necessarily accurate. "Vetting" involves digging deeper. Into the "source". This is what most professional journalists do, and have always done. It is not "easy"...but it is the best, most accurate method.

(Edit)....trying to find relevant threads. This one is useful (though, not here I guess) to explain the "patterns" of contrails:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/contrail-pattern-simulator.3157/

There is a recent post that shows how distance plays a role in the "illusion" that a contrail, although it is perfectly horizontal to the plane of the Earth's surface, appears to be "lowering" as it get farther away. (Think about this: The Earth is curved, yes? Thus, the contrail is "curved" too (on a HUGE scale, of course)....even though the airplane remains at the SAME height above the ground!).

The above is also seen, at ground level, when a viewer using a telescope watches a ship go "below" the horizon, as it sails away.....
I hear ya, except for where I live there is a mountain range to the far, and the plane is obviously close by. I mean one must be in the place to judge illusion, and based on my location and the location of the jet, it's quite obvious the direction it's going, all illusions taken into consideration. We are a small town in a sink, and it's not illusion as to the direction of a plane not very far away. I'm just saying.
 

Igrokush1

Member
The time was approximately 6pm, 10/22/14 in redding ca. I understand illusion and all but where I live, imagine being in a football stadium at kickoff. You see the ball go up into the air,mikec, then go down. There is no real illusion, in fact it appears to go up then down from all angles in the stadium, not straight, not curved, nor away. Well redding is like a huge stadium, and I had many friends call me in retrospect from ALL parts of redding observing the same thing, like in a stadium. Kinda like a falling star, we all know it's falling, not going.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I hear ya, except for where I live there is a mountain range to the far, and the plane is obviously close by.
Please, let me try to help (I actually LIVE in Southern California). I have flown a LOT in the region (which tends towards an "argument from authority" fallacy) which I will try to avoid.

You, member "Igrokush1" mentioned a second time (to my eyes) the location of Redding, California. I am VERY familiar with California, as I mentioned previously.

In fact....I NOW recall having added a post with a LINK...(was it for you?) ABOUT Redding, California. Here it is, again:
http://skyvector.com/?ll=40.50920520337149,-122.29321288991099&chart=304&zoom=4

IF you have any questions about how that Chart is interpreted, please feel free to send me a PM. I will happily explain ALL of it.

(EDIT): I strongly wish that there was an opportunity to MEET, in person, so that I could help 'instruct'. THAT is what I did, for over 40 years. Instruct. (BUT? Not "online"....person-to-person is the best way to learn).
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
The time was approximately 6pm, 10/22/14 in redding ca.
THAT is excellent info, and will now allow many to begin to ascertain the actual flight that you saw, and determine its identity.

What I am trying to say is....there ARE tools out there that allow this. One just needs to know how to use them.

I could to it...but right now? I need to go to sleep, because work in the AM.....
 

Igrokush1

Member
Geez Louise I'm trying! Uploading pics in areas with little to no reception is
mikec, what I'm saying is that ANY chemical of concentration will fry foliage, to put it simply. Any yes, in fact, roundup kills bugs without killing plants. It's called roundup ready crops. They are GMO's. A very common term in the horticultural community. They involve the coding of genes, and with the proper sequence, another gene from a completely different species is spliced in using a 'gene gun' which uses gold coated pellets to permeate the cell wall in order to get the gene in. I'm sure you have heard of Monsanto, he's not a fictional name. Watch videos of his productions, and they may more clearly explain how roundup kills bugs without killing plants.

I hear ya, except for where I live there is a mountain range to the far, and the plane is obviously close by. I mean one must be in the place to judge illusion, and based on my location and the location of the jet, it's quite obvious the direction it's going, all illusions taken into consideration. We are a small town in a sink, and it's not illusion as to the direction of a plane not very far away. I'm just saying.
Yes I looked at the link, and Redding municipal airport is roughly in the center of Redding and not a single flight goes East/West. Still that link doesn't change the fact that we live in a sink hole, like a stadium, and we can see the surrounding mountains around us, and I'm not trying to argue that at all. And when you can see the mountains surround you, yes here, I can plainly see the flights on your link, to the west of redding going North/South and to the East of redding. But when you are in the center of town and you see flights going east and west and you can see the plane DIRECTLY overhead, who really knows what they are. I've called out local airport as well as sac and SF, and they aren't any of those flights at the times and dates I've documented. I'm not speculating WHAT they are, I never did, I'm just stating an observation. That's all. You can spend time to debunk my observation, but it won't change what we see here.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Geez Louise I'm trying! Uploading pics in areas with little to no reception is
mikec, what I'm saying is that ANY chemical of concentration will fry foliage, to put it simply. Any yes, in fact, roundup kills bugs without killing plants. It's called roundup ready crops. They are GMO's. A very common term in the horticultural community. They involve the coding of genes, and with the proper sequence, another gene from a completely different species is spliced in using a 'gene gun' which uses gold coated pellets to permeate the cell wall in order to get the gene in. I'm sure you have heard of Monsanto, he's not a fictional name. Watch videos of his productions, and they may more clearly explain how roundup kills bugs without killing plants.
This is very off topic, but Roundup (glyphosate) is not a "bug killer" (pesticide). It is a weed killer (herbicide).

Roundup-ready crops are genetically modified to be resistant to glyphosate, so that you can spray the weedkiller and it will kill the weeds but not the crops.


Now, back to the planes. I took this shot yesterday morning. How far away would you guess the plane visible leaving a trail at the left hand side is? Do you think it is in level flight?

image.jpg

(To answer my rhetorical question, that plane was on the far side of London from me, between 50 and 60 miles away at the time I took the photo, and in level flight at 37,000ft, en route from Toronto to Munich.)
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Heres

another without the binoculars, same plane
How far away do you think that plane was from you? Just by eyeballing it and from experience of identifying planes with FlightRadar24, I would guess it was at least 20 miles away when you took that photo. And probably about 6 miles up vertically too.
 
i took this yesterday it's going east/west directly over redding, I could actually see the plane close, so I got out binoculars and snapped a shot from my phone through them. I can tell it's not a passenger jet, and it has a yellow tail. I'll look into other possible alternatives to identify aircraft

I can't see it well enough to see the yellow, but here is a 747 with a yellow tail. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7947973360_4054c58e21.jpg

Watch for it at the same time of day and then see what airline and aircraft type it is on flightradar24.com or planefinder.net.
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
The time was approximately 6pm, 10/22/14 in redding ca.
You said "yesterday", which would make it 10/21/14. According to the file name on the photo it was taken at 6:11:57pm on the 21st:

upload_2014-10-23_10-37-27.png

In UTC (which FR24 uses), that is 1:11:57am on the 22nd.


Looks like you were right about the yellow tail! You were also correct that it wasn't a passenger jet: it's a cargo jet, although the same model as passenger jets. And it was a 747, which has four engines, hence the four trails.

upload_2014-10-23_10-43-4.png

That flight was supposed to go to LA, but on that particular day it seems to have diverted to Cincinnati for some reason, which explains why it was heading in that direction.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/po214#4a03005

upload_2014-10-23_16-19-19.png


Here is the exact plane, pictured in flight:

upload_2014-10-23_14-40-40.png

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pola...2286400/&sid=15bc23e5242b9f730d77172e183952ad
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
does this fit the description

Isn't Redding UTC-8 which would make it 2:11:57am?
That would fit nicely with the daily Polar Air Cargo flight from Anchorage to LA.
Daylight Saving Time. It's equivalent to 2:11:57am UK time, but we are also still on BST (UTC+1).

6pm Pacific Daylight Time is 5pm Pacific Standard Time (UTC-8), so 1am the following day UTC.

See above. I think it is a Polar Air Cargo flight, but it's the one from Tokyo, which was off its booked course and flew directly west to east over Redding. The Anchorage flight was well off to the west and heading south.

If @Igrokush1 can remember where he took the photo from, we could match it up with Google Earth to check. I'm guessing it was from the I-5. I think I may have found the location, but I want to hear it from him.


As for the claim that Redding doesn't see any flights going east-west, that's clearly not true. Heck, even the Google Street View car captured contrails crossing at 90 degrees!

upload_2014-10-23_12-30-47.png

I hear ya, except for where I live there is a mountain range to the far, and the plane is obviously close by. I mean one must be in the place to judge illusion, and based on my location and the location of the jet, it's quite obvious the direction it's going, all illusions taken into consideration. We are a small town in a sink, and it's not illusion as to the direction of a plane not very far away. I'm just saying.
Well, based on that FR24 screenshot, at 6:11pm the plane was about 22 miles from the centre of Redding, which fits in well with my eyeball estimate earlier of "at least 20 miles".
 
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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
How far away would you guess the plane visible leaving a trail at the left hand side is? Do you think it is in level flight?
Yes it is level flight. As to its distance from your location at time the photo was taken? There is a thread here on MB which helps with that (sadly, I am having trouble finding it, via the 'Search' feature).
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Yes it is level flight. As to its distance from your location at time the photo was taken? There is a thread here on MB which helps with that (sadly, I am having trouble finding it, via the 'Search' feature).
That was a rhetorical question for Igrokush. I know exactly where it was! ;)
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
and Redding municipal airport is roughly in the center of Redding and not a single flight goes East/West.
Look at all those East/West routes just to the south:
http://skyvector.com/?ll=40.50878755592031,-122.29321288991099&chart=304&zoom=5

NOW: Know that a flight inbound from the Pacific Ocean (in your case) might be given (by ATC) a more direct routing from a point out at sea, in the ADIZ (Air Defense identification Zone) as it "coasts in" (as the term is used).

If you look at that link again, you will see many "waypoints" out at sea....'VESPA', 'UNVER', 'TRYSH'. 'SHENU', etc. These are nonsense "words", only used to identify (for aviation) some waypoints. These types of waypoints always use only five letters. (Other sorts of waypoints are different).

It can happen that this flight was re-routed, or originally flight-planned in various ways. Just because an Aeronautical Chart shows defined routes doesn't mean a flight cannot go OFF those routes. It's a big sky, after all!!!
 

captfitch

Senior Member.
You said "yesterday", which would make it 10/21/14. According to the file name on the photo it was taken at 6:11:57pm on the 21st:

View attachment 9782

In UTC (which FR24 uses), that is 1:11:57am on the 22nd.


Looks like you were right about the yellow tail! You were also correct that it wasn't a passenger jet: it's a cargo jet, although the same model as passenger jets. And it was a 747, which has four engines, hence the four trails.

View attachment 9785

That flight was supposed to go to LA, but on that particular day it seems to have diverted to Cincinnati for some reason, which explains why it was heading in that direction.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/po214#49e31bd

View attachment 9786


Here is the exact plane, pictured in flight:

View attachment 9790

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pola...2286400/&sid=15bc23e5242b9f730d77172e183952ad
That is a really crazy divert! Although there must have been at least the possibility of that since they would have had to carry all that extra fuel.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
That is a really crazy divert! Although there must have been at least the possibility of that since they would have had to carry all that extra fuel.
It is, but it actually happened twice in a row! In fact I have just noticed that I originally linked to the wrong flight. If you look at the link, both the departures on 10-21 and 10-22 (Japanese time) from Tokyo to LAX ended up in Cincinnati. And previous flights have done the same thing, e.g. the one on 10-17. (That appeared to go directly there on a great circle, rather than diverting.)

In fact, it looks as if every flight that is listed as being Tokyo - LAX seems to go to Cincinnati instead. Maybe the flight plans are out of date? (In which case what happened with this flight - did the pilot forget and head for LAX first?!)
 

captfitch

Senior Member.
I don't know for sure but I suspect they are doing contract flights for someone (UPS?) and are subject to the timing and goals of that company. So they head for LA but ideally they would be going to Cincinnati... If things work out they go there, if not, they go to LA.
 

Igrokush1

Member
Are all planes including fire and government planes on there?

[Mod: unnecessary quote removed]
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't know for sure but I suspect they are doing contract flights for someone (UPS?) and are subject to the timing and goals of that company. So they head for LA but ideally they would be going to Cincinnati... If things work out they go there, if not, they go to LA.
That flight hasn't been to Los Angeles all year according to FlightAware.

The next flight is listed as Tokyo-LA. But they never do that. Sometimes it Tokyo to Anchorage, mostly it's Chubu (Nagoya, Japan) to Cincinnati. So maybe it's just a generic placeholder plan for Japan->USA
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
That flight hasn't been to Los Angeles all year according to FlightAware.

The next flight is listed as Tokyo-LA. But they never do that. Sometimes it Tokyo to Anchorage, mostly it's Chubu (Nagoya, Japan) to Cincinnati. So maybe it's just a generic placeholder plan for Japan->USA
What's strange, though, is that most of the flights seem to fly a great-circle route to Cincinnati (and therefore cross the west coast up over British Columbia or Washington, well to the north of Redding) but the ones on Oct 21 and Oct 22 appeared to be routing to LA, then diverted.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What's strange, though, is that most of the flights seem to fly a great-circle route to Cincinnati (and therefore cross the west coast up over British Columbia or Washington, well to the north of Redding) but the ones on Oct 21 and Oct 22 appeared to be routing to LA, then diverted.
I suspect that's just routing due to winds.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Are all planes including fire and government planes on there?

[Mod: unnecessary quote removed]
Anything with an ADS-B transponder should be there. Military aircraft would be unlikely to show up.

http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works/

But I don't think there's any doubt here that what you saw was the PAC plane. The time, direction, position, number of engines and even the livery all match your observations.

I suspect part of the reason this plane stood out so vividly to you is that it and its contrail caught the rays of the setting sun, so they were brightly lit while the land was already in shadow (sunset was at 6.20pm, just a few minutes after you took your photo, and in reality the sunset on the ground in Redding, which has mountains to the west, would be earlier than "astronomical" sunset, as the horizon is hidden).

BTW, could you confirm where you were when you took the photo?
 
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Igrokush1

Member
Are all planes including fire and government planes on there?
Daylight Saving Time. It's equivalent to 2:11:57am UK time, but we are also still on BST (UTC+1).

6pm Pacific Daylight Time is 5pm Pacific Standard Time (UTC-8), so 1am the following day UTC.

See above. I think it is a Polar Air Cargo flight, but it's the one from Tokyo, which was off its booked course and flew directly west to east over Redding. The Anchorage flight was well off to the west and heading south.

If @Igrokush1 can remember where he took the photo from, we could match it up with Google Earth to check. I'm guessing it was from the I-5. I think I may have found the location, but I want to hear it from him.


As for the claim that Redding doesn't see any flights going east-west, that's clearly not true. Heck, even the Google Street View car captured contrails crossing at 90 degrees!

View attachment 9789



Well, based on that FR24 screenshot, at 6:11pm the plane was about 22 miles from the centre of Redding, which fits in well with my eyeball estimate earlier of "at least 20 miles".
redding, churn creek road, crosses with hwy 299E
 

Igrokush1

Member
that's nonsense. There are many chemicals that do nothing to crops - most of those in soil and air for starters......



Except roundup is a herbicide - not an insecticide....it kills weeds!!

completely not sure why this is at all relevant tho.
I disagree. Key word, concentration. I dilute 100% rosemary oil to 10%soln, any higher will destroy
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
redding, churn creek road, crosses with hwy 299E
Thanks. I was looking along I-5 trying to find a viewpoint that matched, so I was off target.

Looks like it was here, right? (New blacktop since the Street View car went by!)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.6...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxEFOWD_uMPkuq1MqQC5T8g!2e0

upload_2014-10-23_22-6-45.png



Viewpoint is slightly north of east.

Perhaps @Mick West could plot the flight path into Google Earth and see how it matches? That trickery is beyond me...
 

Igrokush1

Member
That flight hasn't been to Los Angeles all year according to FlightAware.

The next flight is listed as Tokyo-LA. But they never do that. Sometimes it Tokyo to Anchorage, mostly it's Chubu (Nagoya, Japan) to Cincinnati. So maybe it's just a generic placeholder plan for Japan->USA
I reckon it wasn't a standard perfectly normal flight carrying people. I'm glad to bring something different to the table:)
 

Igrokush1

Member
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