Need help: in analyzing this "uap"

[Daves!]

Hello everyone,

i want to ask all for your help. On a Dutch UFO reporting site someone uploaded pictures of some light in the sky. For me it was obvious almost immediately what i thought it is : a reflection of a lamp.
I wrote to the poster that i thought it was photographed inside the house and it was a reflection of a lamp, but in response he told me it was outside. He offered to send me more pictures so i could take a good look and try to find an answer.
Can anyone analyse these pictures and give a explanation what it is ?
The info i have got :
date : 08-08-2021
time : 00:15 - 00:40 CET Amsterdam
location : Zwartsluis Netherlands streetname : Sportlaan
captured with an iPhone 12.

I added the pictures he sended to me.
i stick to my theory that its a reflection but i dont know how to prove it.
So maybe some of you can help me out.
I realy want to help the poster in indentifying it for him but my resources are low and knowledge in analysing pictures even less.
A big thank you for anyone helping me out.

 

[Meat5000]

Start here http://www.fotoforensics.com/ and analyse the authenticity first.

Its not the light that intrigues me but the object that can be seen above it in a few of the pictures.

 

[jarlrmai]

Looks like in lens reflections to me, would need to have the non cropped image of the wide angle (second shot) on it to demonstrate it fully though

 

[Solaris0121]

If you can get a full frame image that hasnt been cropped - draw an "X" line corner to corner on the image, then draw a line from the lamp to the "uap" - if its an internal reflection, then both lines should disect each other in the dead centre of the image.

 

[FatPhil]

captured with an iPhone 12.

Modern iPhones have norotiously bad optics, known for stray internal reflections.
Some examples viewable (from an 11, IIRC) on this thread: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/st...italy-internal-reflections.11915/#post-254479

 

[Daves!]

Is it possible to check somehow if the pictures are made inside or outside somehow ?

 

[Daves!]

Looks like in lens reflections to me, would need to have the non cropped image of the wide angle (second shot) on it to demonstrate it fully though

These are all the pictures i got from the poster.

Here is the link ( its in Dutch ) to the post.
https://www.ufomeldpunt.nl/melding/13276-diffuus-licht-in-het-noordwesten-vergelijkbaar-met-bijzon

 

[Ulrich]

I had similar pictures on my iPhone 11, which I posted in the Skydentify-Thread. I am quite sure, that your pics are partly a result of internal reflections (the white dots) and partly a result of a headlight of a discotheque or club or something like that (the bigger light in the sky). That looks like the discotheque-light I know from my hometown. You can check that issue by looking at the centre of the picture and searching for a centre for mirroring, and, regarding the big light, asking the dutch guy about an event or Club or Disco over there.

 

[Ulrich]

Modern iPhones have norotiously bad optics, known for stray internal reflections.
Some examples viewable (from an 11, IIRC) on this thread: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/st...italy-internal-reflections.11915/#post-254479

After we dicussed my reflection-pictures, I was curious about that mechanism and did little experiments for a few seconds. I was able to make quite impressive pictures with several UFOs again. I was also able to put the UFOs wherever I wanted. So you are absolutely right.

 

[Mick West]

It;s not entirely clear, but the orange light does look like it's some thing at ground level shining up at the clouds. It does seem to illuminate all the clouds around it with the same color light.

The camera is looking Northwest. It's mostly farmland in that direction. Sometimes you get bright lights in the clouds over grow-houses when the clouds are low enough. Or maybe just some promotion or party.

Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6417334,6.0719101,71a,35y,309.79h,79.22t/data=!3m1!1e3
(street view is out of date)

 

[Meat5000]

It;s not entirely clear, but the orange light does look like it's some thing at ground level shining up at the clouds. It does seem to illuminate all the clouds around it with the same color light.
View attachment 46400

The camera is looking Northwest. It's mostly farmland in that direction. Sometimes you get bright lights in the clouds over grow-houses when the clouds are low enough. Or maybe just some promotion or party.
View attachment 46401

Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6417334,6.0719101,71a,35y,309.79h,79.22t/data=!3m1!1e3
(street view is out of date)

I see an apparent cone beneath the light that seems to not travel very far beneath the object.

 

[Ulrich]

Some of your pictures show the light in the sky as cube or at least square-shaped. That may be connected to the shape of the cloud at that region in that particular moment. I think It can be connected to the shape of the headlights as well. Apart from the shape, I know this light as Event-headlight.

 

[Ulrich]

I see an apparent cone beneath the light that seems to not travel very far beneath the object.

I cant see that cone. Can you mark it? Are there any accurate timestamps for each of these pictures available?

 

[Daves!]

Thanks everyone for helping ! Its good to see people are helping. And i admit im wrong here thinking its a reflection.

I cant see that cone. Can you mark it? Are there any accurate timestamps for each of these pictures available?

Picture number 4 is a screenshot of his phone with a timestamp on it if you look closely it says 00:40.
It occured between 00:15 - 00:40.
His wife and daughter saw it first when they were letting their dog out. Thats how they noticed the light.

Im now leaning more towards a Event-headlight but i dont realy see the cone light to be honest.

 

[deirdre]

in this pic it seems to have the same "bars" as this light (or is that just a metal box?)

 

[deirdre]

but what's this thing? a weird iphone artifact of a star?

 

[MclachlanM]

When you reflect the top half and change the opacity you see that the white spots are reflections of the bright lights at the bottom of the image. The one you point out is the reflection of the brightest lamppost in the centre.

Note that the yellow light is not a reflection of anything in the bottom half of the image so it could be what Mick suggests instead.

 

[Daves!]

but what's this thing? a weird iphone artifact of a star?

View attachment 46408

That what i noticed too and i asked him about it. He replied that those were reflections of lightsources in the vicinity where he was standing and not stars.

 

[deirdre]

That what i noticed too and i asked him about it. He replied that those were reflections of lightsources in the vicinity where he was standing and not stars.

so are we assuming he is behind a window?

 

[jarlrmai]

so are we assuming he is behind a window?

No they are internal lens reflections, it's not required to be behind a window.

 

[jarlrmai]

In this pic I think the 4 white dots are the top of Ursa Major so probalby quite a long exposure/multiple exposure on the phonr camera.

The UAP light looks to be a projector spotlight type thing pointed at the sky, maybe from a festival etc

 

[JMartJr]

No they are internal lens reflections, it's not required to be behind a window.

The bright small lights are internal reflections, I don't think the big diffuse one is, since the prime candidate for its source is used up being the source for the little white one -- looks to me to be either "up-lighting" from the ground onto the clouds, thought something less intense than these searchlights, or a reflection which is exterior to the camera, on the window, if the shots are in fact through a window.

 

[Mendel]

His wife and daughter saw it first when they were letting their dog out. Thats how they noticed the light.

If true, this rules out a camera artifact, at least for the big light.

 

[Gary McH-P]

@Daves!. So are you saying that this was seen by the naked eye, prior to the capture on camera?

 

[Meat5000]

I cant see that cone. Can you mark it? Are there any accurate timestamps for each of these pictures available?

You can see it better when zoomed in. I can highlight it on the weekend when I can get to a PC. This reminds me of a plane making its way through the clouds. Is there an airport nearby?

 

[Meat5000]

Sorry it posted twice. Cant seem to remove it!

 

[Daves!]

@Daves!. So are you saying that this was seen by the naked eye, prior to the capture on camera?

Correct - he saw it afterwards too and made the pictures while looking at it.

Now an interesting twist, Mike West could be right with his suggestion that it could be light from grow-houses.
I suggested this to the guy in the comment section of the Dutch ufo site and he said that it could be indeed be lights comming from Grow-houses in the neighbourhood. He said in Marknesse (a small town in the neighbourhood i think ) are a lot growhouses but he just remarked that its very strange to glow up in the sky like that.
I googled Marknesse Grow-Houses and found pretty much something that could explain the bars seeing in one of his pictures.
A very big Grow-house in Marknesse could be the cultprit.

 

[deirdre]

- he saw it afterwards too

did he smell fire? the clouds dont look super irregular but some are a bit odd, so i was thinking smoke. which often involves trucks with big lights.

not smoke, but similar light effect

Article:

View at EarthSky Community Photos. | Nancy Ricigliano at Jones Beach, New York, caught this sun pillar on March 3, 2019.
Sun pillars or light pillars form when sunlight (or another bright light source) reflects off the surfaces of millions of falling ice crystals associated with thin, high-level clouds – for example, cirrostratus clouds. The ice crystals have roughly horizontal faces. They are falling through Earth's atmosphere, rocking slightly from side to side.

Source: https://earthsky.org/earth/what-is-a-sun-pillar/

 

[Daves!]

did he smell fire? the clouds dont look super irregular but some are a bit odd, so i was thinking smoke. which often involves trucks with big lights.

not smoke, but similar light effect

Article:

View at EarthSky Community Photos. | Nancy Ricigliano at Jones Beach, New York, caught this sun pillar on March 3, 2019.
Sun pillars or light pillars form when sunlight (or another bright light source) reflects off the surfaces of millions of falling ice crystals associated with thin, high-level clouds – for example, cirrostratus clouds. The ice crystals have roughly horizontal faces. They are falling through Earth's atmosphere, rocking slightly from side to side.

View attachment 46417

Source: https://earthsky.org/earth/what-is-a-sun-pillar/

I dont know if he smelled fire. But i like your suggestion of fire - Or big trucks. It would never come up in my mind. The picture you showed here isnt that only visible on pictures and not with the naked eye ?

 

[Ravi]

Correct - he saw it afterwards too and made the pictures while looking at it.

Now an interesting twist, Mike West could be right with his suggestion that it could be light from grow-houses.
I suggested this to the guy in the comment section of the Dutch ufo site and he said that it could be indeed be lights comming from Grow-houses in the neighbourhood. He said in Marknesse (a small town in the neighbourhood i think ) are a lot growhouses but he just remarked that its very strange to glow up in the sky like that.
I googled Marknesse Grow-Houses and found pretty much something that could explain the bars seeing in one of his pictures.
A very big Grow-house in Marknesse could be the cultprit.

Agreed. I am also Dutch and have seen this effect before. It depends also on the cloud formations how visible it can be.

 

[Gary McH-P]

We used to spend a lot of time in France. Nightclubs in Europe are predominately 'out of town'. Often in the middle of nowhere. To attract customers they would often send up sodium orange spotlights into the sky. You could see these several miles away on a cloudy night. They would denote the night club was open and entice customers from villages or small towns nearby to visit and shake their booty! This particular example of a small Dutch town has a potential number of nightclubs nearby, specifically 'Mees de Visco'.

 

[Matt33]

When you tweak brightness and contrast, some light and dark streaks do appear in the sky. This could be some kind of camera artifact (I am not quite sure if the lines continue over the foreground), or in case those lines are shadows, the light source is wide and nearby. The whole scene reminds me of the "UFO" projection in Hongkong Shanghai which was discussed here recently.

 

[Matt33]

The viewing angle can only be approximated but I think it's save to say that the big greenhouses at Marknesse are exactly in line of view. They are about one mile across and ten miles away. When you google for "tuinbouw bij nacht" (greenhouses at night) you get images which are at least in color and overall appearance kind of similar, without the ghostly "window" though. The orange-yellowish color seems to be typical.

 

[Matt33]

It's also interesting to look at the weather that night. It was very humid, up to 100%, while the temperature being relatively low at 15°C. So there were many droplets in the air, which could help explain those "beams" in the enhanced image in my post #32.

 

[Daves!]

Matt33 thank you ! I think Mike suggestion and your small research explained it. The weather factor is something new to consider to explain things further - what a great thinking!
Thanks!

 

[taivaantuntija]

That's a light pillar. It's caused by flat ice crystals floating in the air and reflecting lights below them. In this case the pillar is short because the ice crystal column is also short.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pillar

 

[Mendel]

flat ice crystals floating in the air

can we confirm that with weather data? time, date and location are in the original post.

 

[deirdre]

can we confirm that with weather data? time, date and location are in the original post.

i was trying to figure out if it could be cold enough too. seems iffy.. but im not that good with altitudes, not sure if this helps
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/co...horizon-a-useful-distance-rule-of-thumb.7294/

 

[Gary McH-P]

So light pillar, reflection, refraction, looks like this is a nailed on uap caused by these super-massive 'growhouses' 'greenhouses' emitting a sodium orange light. Well done everyone. Is everyone agreed? Next..............

 

[taivaantuntija]

can we confirm that with weather data? time, date and location are in the original post.

850 hPa temperature was around +8 C and 700 hPa was around -2 C, relative humidity around 84% and 90% - respectively: https://earth.nullschool.net/#2021/...hographic=-356.05,50.28,1018/loc=6.384,52.955