Strange line up of lights in the sky of Verano, Italy. [Internal reflections]

Ulrich

Member
Hallo guys,

A few hours ago, I saw a line up of lights in pictures of my iPhone 11 Pro with the App „Procamera“, so I have RAW (.DNG) Versions of that pictures as well. I think I used the LowLight Mode. Location is the Castel San Pietro.

There are other pictures with a similar angle, and similar time, with no obvious line ups or lights. My guess is, the cause is around the optics of the mobilphone and has something to do with the lights of Verano.




IMG_5306.jpgIMG_5307b.jpg
 

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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
These are reflections of the lights below, they are mirrored about the center of the image (the original optical image, before any cropping). See the cluster of three in the first image for the simplest example
 

Ravi

Senior Member.
I always get a bit suspicious when i see a photo posted that has been cropped (for no good reasons)... Like to hide something.. But hey, that's just me.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
I always get a bit suspicious when i see a photo posted that has been cropped (for no good reasons)... Like to hide something..
the "good reason" to crop this image is to show the lights more clearly on a forum that auto-resizes pictures.

If you're not aware that it could be a reflection, you may not think that the ground matters.

I'm reading Ulrich's first post as offering to provide the raw images on request, so it does not look like he had anything to hide.
 

FatPhil

Senior Member.
What is the surface the lights are being reflected from?

As the highlights are rotated 180 degrees about a central point (presuming the image was cropped), it's going to be camera internals. Light rays are probably getting two extra bounces off the internals of one of the optical elements. It's a hardware design issue, so no point getting a replacement of the same model. Feast your eyes on how bad it can get: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxLMwWAQBhI
(literally the first googoo search result for "iphone lens reflection", recent iphones are notorious for this flaw)
 

JarJar

Member
The reflection in the clouds is a mirror image, so if you clip the main string of reflections in the clouds, crank up the contrast and un-mirror it, the source light clusters line up perfectly.
edited for poor wording

lights.png
 
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DavidB66

Active Member
As the highlights are rotated 180 degrees about a central point (presuming the image was cropped), it's going to be camera internals
Thanks. I'm glad no-one suggested 'from the clouds', because I couldn't see how that would work! Also, some of the reflections (especially in the lower photo at #1) are in the gaps between clouds.

Searchlights or laser beams can be seen reflected from clouds (I've seen it myself), because a narrow beam illuminates only a small area of cloud, but I doubt that street lights, etc, would ever be individually reflected in the same way. The sky above a city at night can have a diffuse glow, due to the cumulative effect of numerous lights below, but that is not the same thing.

I did wonder whether the original photo might have been taken through a window, which would raise other possibilities of reflection or refraction. I recall that this was a suggestion in the recent 'Devon UFO' case, but of course that turned out to be something else entirely!
 

Ulrich

Member
I always get a bit suspicious when i see a photo posted that has been cropped (for no good reasons)... Like to hide something.. But hey, that's just me.
I added not just the cropped versions. :) I attached the uncropped files as well. Thought you can see these versions, too.
Because I can see it in the Thread. Additionaly, I have the RAW-Files, which are not attached here. But anyway, reflections, so it does not really matter.

edit: and of course, there are good reasons to crop here. Otherwise you would not see.
 

Ulrich

Member
I did wonder whether the original photo might have been taken through a window, which would raise other possibilities of reflection or refraction. I recall that this was a suggestion in the recent 'Devon UFO' case, but of course that turned out to be something else entirely!
The original photos are attached. I did put the cellphone on a wall. No windows. Just the optics of the cellphone. :)
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
FWIW, now that I have seen the uncropped versions, ufo 2.jpg
Not 100% sure I'm seeing a reflection for the line with the question mark, but could be...

ufo 1.JPG
 

JarJar

Member
FWIW, now that I have seen the uncropped versions, ufo 2.jpg
Not 100% sure I'm seeing a reflection for the line with the question mark, but could be...

ufo 1.JPG
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't the reflection just a vertical 'flip' of the source lights on the ground?

Also, might this image include reflections of light sources hidden from the camera's pov behind the taller buildings?
edit: ...and vice versa, ground light sources in the camera's pov are not being reflected, but blocked by buildings?
 
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Ravi

Senior Member.
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't the reflection just a vertical 'flip' of the source lights on the ground?

Also, might this image include reflections of light sources hidden from the camera's pov behind the taller buildings?
edit: ...and vice versa, ground light sources in the camera's pov are not being reflected, but blocked by buildings?

It is mirrored in the centre of the image (optical centre), thus it is flipped in both X and Y.

Any light source not seen by the camera/observer cannot show a reflection in the image, as it happens inside the lens. What it can create is stray light or ghosting (light enters the lens/objective from the side, illuminating basically the lens mount etc).
 
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