Max Bliss debates chemtrails

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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
He is claiming that 0.008 ug/L of aluminum in rain water is ordinary, more is unusual. He tries to wave off the 1973 aluminum studies by claiming they were spraying back then, but also claims contrails didn't persist back then, a contradiction. The chemist isn't as prepared as we are, but seems to have seen some of our research. He notes that rain samples don't connect to the sky. Max says he is trying to get in situ samples.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
He is claiming that 0.008 ug/L of aluminum in rain water is ordinary, more is unusual. He tries to wave off the 1973 aluminum studies by claiming they were spraying back then, but also claims contrails didn't persist back then, a contradiction. The chemist isn't as prepared as we are, but seems to have seen some of our research. He notes that rain samples don't connect to the sky. Max says he is trying to get in situ samples.

I think biggerdave has had discussions with Max about the Al levels and got nowhere. Hardly surprising really.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
In this debate, Max is dominating the amount of conversation. They will do that. If you are in such a debate, arrange beforehand to have a structured approach with perhaps one minute each alternating, or an independent person with a stopwatch for each person and a settling up before time runs out.

The opposition is not familiar with the sources of aluminum and hasn't brought up the crustal abundance.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I feel sorry for the chemist. I get the impression he came on as a favour. I could rip to shreds most of Max's claims. As many know I have spent far too much time researching Aluminium, especially in water (time to get a girlfriend I think). Max states that government sites give figures on what is normal for rainwater. I would like to know which sites he is talking about as I have never seen such statements. I have trawled sites like DEFRA and the CEH and can only find ranges rather than specifics. I have spoken with many people associated with Max to no avail. They blindly accept his figures even though science says it is impossible. An example is with his claim of 0.08 ug/l of Al in rainwater. Some of the samples have been taken in Brighton or Portsmouth, on the coast, and they fail to understand that sea water contains at least 2ug/l Al so that makes the 0.08 figure nonsense. I find it incredibly frustrating at his, and his followers, apparent lack of understanding about air pollution and sources. Take his comment about cars. He questions as to where Al and Ba pollution would come from with a car. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to Google that.

He appears to be a central figure in the chemtrail community in the UK and I was hoping that his awareness tour was going to make it up my way. I am wondering on whether to set up a debate but to be frank I can be very intolerant of folk if they act like fuckwits. However I genuinely would help them to set up a systematic methodology to test for whatever. I believe that the way forward is for people to do research and submit it for peer review and maybe then they will realise they are been taken for a ride.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
He knows I am a pilot. I'd like to think that maybe he couldn't counter what I was saying, but who really knows with a mind that believes in chembusters and that helicopters passing a mile away are targeting him for surveillance?

Metabunk is apparently "hate-filled" BTW..
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
They (including Max Bliss) are intent on gaining credibility by changing the name from chemtrails:

https://www.facebook.com/mrmaxbliss/posts/10151663274670396

So Max Bliss is anti semitic too, that was news to me.

Although in your post I didn't see evidence from Max that he is anti-semetic..... There is a strong anti-semetic streak among the conspiracy crowd if you look at their posts and likes (on Facebook), as with the attempt at relabeling 'chemtrails' as geoengineering..... a lot of anti-semetic people are calling themselves anti-zionists.


http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/9-11conspiracytheories.pdf
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The belief in a vast Jewish conspiracy has been around for hundreds of years. It's one of the original conspiracy theories, along with the Illuminati. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a big part of this. Despite it being proven false, it's become accepted as fact in some parts of the world, doing immense harm.

The Hamas covenant:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Of course "their present conduct" is not helping matters either.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
We may not have to worry about Max Bliss much longer, or at least any of his offspring. He has started eating the Borax.

 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
There is a strong anti-semetic streak among the conspiracy crowd if you look at their posts and likes (on Facebook), as with the attempt at relabeling 'chemtrails' as geoengineering..... a lot of anti-semetic people are calling themselves anti-zionists.

To be fair to Max present someone with a long list of Jewish names and I suspect everyone may see a pattern forming
 

JRBids

Senior Member.

JRBids

Senior Member.

Strawman

Senior Member.
They don't trust the pharmaceutical companies and drugs which have been tested but they have no problem ingesting stuff someone tells them to on the internet--that's used in detergent, no less.

They have effectively built up their own anti-authorities. And, again and again, they fall for scams and snake-oil salesmen. In Germany, a group of right wing esoterics that is highly critical of pharmaceutical companies and the ingestion of chemicals, as opposed to natural remedies, almost collectively fell for the MMS (Miracle Mineral Supplement) scam. Some of them even adhere to pseudomedicine such as GNM (Germanic New Medicine) which sees all diseases caused by internal conflicts, yet some of the same people started taking MMS when one of their anti-authorities, who also proposed GNM once in a while, endorsed it.
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
Something new from Max Bliss:



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1300810995396.524896.685100395&type=1&theater

[bunk]According to my new industry insider... the Central Wing Tank ,CWT of the Boeing 737 is usually left empty for short haul flights and the fuel tank which is fed Trimethylaluminum, TMA for spray flights.... hence the need for the Nitrogen Enriched Air, NEA inert fuel tanks since the TWA 800 explosion ( and at least 2 other plane explosions) of the CWT....in the early days of commercial co-opted chemtrail contracts lessons were learned...[/bunk]

I know that Trimethylaluminum is used in experiments with sounding-rockets in High atmosphere, they use it as a tracer, because it reacts with air.

Here is an Example for such an Experiment from 2012:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/missions/atrex.html



translation from german Wikipedia (is more detailed than the english version)

Trimethylaluminum (TMA or TMAI) is a pyrophoric colorless liquid and is one of the aluminum alkyls. TMA has a boiling point of 127 ° C and a very high vapor pressure (at the air white smoke is visible). The liquid goes into flame spontaneously in air and reacts explosively with water. Therefore, this compound must be stored and handled under argon or nitrogen. As the reagent solution in toluene, hexane or heptane is used often.
Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylaluminium
 
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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
This is the source of the photo he is using:
http://www.b737.org.uk/refuelpanel.htm

Sounds like someone is hoaxing ol' Max posing as an "insider".

Max's "insider" would have us believe that Trimethyl Aluminum, a substance which spontaneously bursts into flame on contact with air, is being loaded onto passenger jets at airports and the manufacturer, owner, pilots, mechanics, and ground crew allow that?

Somebody is joking.....Max is Blissfully unaware...?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
TMA is banned from being transported by air. The substance reacts violently with both air and water. Fire-fighting foam contains water. You cannot have a substance on board that would make a fire WORSE if you sprayed it with foam, or the aircraft ditched or simply crashed during a rain storm. It is absurd.

It seems to be a trait of these people... Somebody tells them something they want to hear and all discernment disappears. Somebody tells them something they don't want to hear, and the ad hominen attacks begin with no critical evaluation of the information presented.

From another Max post today..


Max Bliss shared a link.
5 hours ago near Angoulême, Poitou-Charentes
Kathy Kreg shares.... lets hear the excuses site.

http://contrailscience.com/page/5/

During the war many advances in technology were made...many do not realise that is when RFid tags were invented. Also there were many experiments with persistent contrails to block the effectiveness of Radar when " Chaff" was first used and many other types of sprays....persistent contrails were also used for a visual screen for bombing raids.... the experimental drive to control and manipulate the weather has been ongoing since the war....the Contrail Science agents cherry pick a handful of pictures and expect everyone to have a memory lapse and think we have seen these contrails from all plane all the time like we see chemtrails today.....it does not take much to look in site seeing books of pre 1990's to see good quality blue skies, or older movies or your own sky memories...have a look at your holiday pics.... they say it is increased air traffic....well around the London airports it was always busy and we never saw the trails before like these days..... these guys are government disinformation agents... they also are complicit in the genocide and ecocide ensuing on this planet...watching all the plants and trees dying this year...knowing that GMO's will no longer be something to oppose because it will be the only things to grow in the toxic environment we can all check...look at PH levels and see or for £25 get a lab analysis.... These maligned counterintelligence agents at meta and CON are really sick individuals as they have all the information and keep people dissuaded whilst all around the plants die.... should we get a little emotional, angry...then get targeted by these traitors to humanity.... I pay them little attention and block their agents at first chance....time wasters...agents of the NWO satanic scumbags... allow a program to decimate nature...are they insane...? I imagine a lot of people working in the establishment do not know as much as these people and may wake up when they learn the cold hard facts.....but these guys are special psychopaths....hand picked for the disinfo job....


Edit: forgot to mention that TMA has the following effects once it starts burning. There is no way that this material should ever be let near a passenger aircraft. The USAF may have trialled it for use in afterburners, but that report specifically stated that the handling requirements of TMA made it unsuitable for use in that manner.

3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Pyrophoric liquid, decomposes violently in water. Skin contact can
cause severe burns. Fumes may cause skin and eye irritation.
Avoid inhalation of fumes.
4. FIRST AID MEASURES
Prompt medical attention is required in all cases of exposure to
Trimethylaluminum and its by-products. Rescue personnel should
be equipped with appropriate protective equipment (e.g. Selfcontained breathing apparatus) to prevent unnecessary exposure
and must be aware of the fire and explosion potential of
Trimethylaluminum.
Skin
Contact may cause severe burns. Fumes may cause irritation.
Immediately flush affected areas with large quantities of water.
Remove affected clothing as rapidly as possible only if not stuck to
skin.
Eyes
Contact may cause severe burns. Fumes may cause irritation.
Persons with potential exposure to Trimethylaluminum should not
wear contact lenses. Flush contaminated eyes with large quantities
of water for at least 15 minutes. Hold eyelids open to ensure
complete flushing.
Inhalation
May cause irritation. Move exposed personnel to an
uncontaminated area quickly using self-contained breathing
apparatus. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. If breathing has
stopped, apply artificial respiration. Medical assistance should be
sought immediately. Keep victim warm and quiet.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
This is the source of the photo he is using:
http://www.b737.org.uk/refuelpanel.htm

Sounds like someone is hoaxing ol' Max posing as an "insider".

Yep - that panel is usually on the leading edge of the right wing of a 737 - at least it was when I used to refuel way back when.

and yes the center tank is usually left empty - the wing tanks are loaded first because the weight in them helps counter the bending moment of the fuselage on the wings - which is also a good reason to have the engines on the wing.

For the non-mechanically minded, the more weight is in the fuselage the larger the load on the wing to support it because of the distance the fuselage is from the "center of lift" - by keeping the fuselage as light as possible you minimize this load.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Max gripes in his video that his figs are not doing well because of the contrails he sees.
While my figs look much better than his (mine are near-perfect of course), the data shows that French fig production has nearly doubled over the past decade, despite his claims:

Maxfig.jpg
Max Bliss said:
These maligned counterintelligence agents at meta and CON are really sick individuals as they have all the information and keep people dissuaded whilst all around the plants die.... should we get a little emotional, angry...then get targeted by these traitors to humanity.... I pay them little attention and block their agents at first chance....time wasters...agents of the NWO satanic scumbags... allow a program to decimate nature...are they insane...? I imagine a lot of people working in the establishment do not know as much as these people and may wake up when they learn the cold hard facts.....but these guys are special psychopaths....hand picked for the disinfo job....

Max, why behave like the rest of the chemtrail believers and be a drone in their borg collective? I saw in you early signs of someone who responded, not someone who blocked out the viewpoints of others with insults. Up until today we were friends. Was I wrong?

Open discussion is never a waste of time and can only bolster the case of the person who holds the most truth out for examination. Totalitarians and close-minded people block out dissent and disallow free and open discussion. Is that the sort of world you envision as perfection? You would be wise to carefully look at what you are becoming, because the road you are headed towards sound like a nightmare of your own making. What you describe is a Prison Planet of your own closed mind self-reinforced with chains that bind you to a rigid mindset in which change becomes impossible.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
chemtrail planet is full of interesting posts

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/07...o-to-pay-victims-of-toxic-aircraft-contrails/

and this is the story that that refers to

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/07...hopped-into-old-movies-plants-false-memories/

and this one complete with You Tubes to explain it

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/07...agnetic-flux-linked-to-collapsing-atmosphere/

Which is their take on this story

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/sun-s-bizarre-activity-may-trigger-another-ice-age-1.1460937


I am beginning to wonder about the dependence on You Tubes instead of the written word.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
Why aren't believers wearing respirators while going outside if these chemtrails are so dangerous?
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Why aren't believers wearing respirators while going outside if these chemtrails are so dangerous?
Like this guy?


I commented on a Facebook post about getting the stuff tested and he tried to friend me. er No thanks. It may well have been a pollen release or something but a lack of dead animals suggest a lack of toxicity. Also who owns a military respirator and why? Well I know one but less said the better ;)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I am beginning to wonder about the dependence on You Tubes instead of the written word.
Me too. I hate it when I see a news story and instead of a "story" I'm supposed to watch a 30 second commercial and a 3 minutes video when I can read the whole thing in 30 seconds.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
Max Bliss... sharing his insight and wisdom:

https://www.facebook.com/socalskywatch/posts/10151762508820396

There are debunkers and doubters to the chemtrail movement. Mountains of disinformation and teams of operatives delaying, desuading, doing all they can to stop people focusing in on the facts. Governments stonewall protestors and exercise institutional denial... All delaying the focus of the masses. Mean while...the accumulative effects of aluminium a key ingredient among many others poison plant life, change the PH to prohibit nutritional uptake and reduce the energy from photosynthesis... Plants need sunlight, so do we... Rickets is back. I have shared many links to documents and papers exposing the verifiable facts... Aluminium is toxic and accumulating and now the effects are clear.... Monsatan and many other biotech companies are at advanced levels with alu resistant GMO lines with although planned cannot replace nature. 50% of bees the worlds pollinators have gone. Many fatal diseases have exponentially increased making profits for the military industrial pharma biotech complex... The corporations are all linked to the Bilderburg Group and the Committee of 300... The black nobility... The Khazar/Vatican sinagog of Satan that use all the organisations and agencies high freemasonry, Zionism , Fabians, CFR, UN all the Banksters, mainstream media, education heck all governments are puppets to these insane ruling despots who have instigated all wars for hidden globalist agendas... 911 false flags, Gladio etc... We are all manipulated and victims of a mass deception... Until we wake up and find the truth.... Right now trees, plants and animals, fish etc.. Are dying... Humans too... Slowly for now... Depopulation..? Men's sperm count has plummeted 33% in just 16 years...how long have they been spraying...? In various program's...continuously from 1940's. The cabal know we can stop them... It continues whilst the denying works and the deceptions hold... Still trust your governments and their obscenely rich oligarch sadistic inbred masters...? If you work for an agency... I believe not all of you are psychopaths... Compartmentalisation is their method of control... So why not check out some facts or simply examine closely the plants and trees near you and ask yourself... Is everything alright...? Over population is a propaganda myth and the Earth can abundantly provide for many more. The report from iron mountain was real as is the club of rome... Insane agendas cannot be rationalised ... Genocide is unacceptable, ecocide and democide repugnant. We can all have a favourable new system sharing and caring together... All technology, information, resources and utilities shared in harmony without dictator dominance... Everyone, everywhere will enjoy our planet without the insane NWO Despots... They are satanic... Look at the UN and the Lucis Trust? Please wake up, NOW overcome the mental obstacles the "....ism's" these devices used for divide and rule... Unite together all around the world and expose the truth, stand together and be the change you want to see.... PEACE 4 ALL
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Well I don't know what Max is on about here.. But he seems very sure of himself. I seem to have joined some august company..

image.jpg
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What does he think are nozzles here? The static wicks? The flap fairings? The engine exhaust cone?

 
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TWCobra

Senior Member.
The oil drain pipes at the back of the engine pylon I think. They have them on larger engines as well.
Apart from the fact that transporting and handling TMA on a daily basis in passenger aircraft is banned for very good reasons, and the cost of the material itself, I guess it would be a way to do it that explains the contrail gap.
I don't know how much AL2O3 is created in the combustion reaction, but it seems an awfully expensive method as well.
I don't know how pilots, maintenance engineers, refuellers, cargo handlers, flight planners, fire fighters, load dispatchers etc etc etc would be convinced that putting this stuff on an aircraft would be a good idea either...

image.jpg
 
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