Max Bliss debates chemtrails

Status
Not open for further replies.

skephu

Senior Member.
the topic of this thread is CHEMTRAILS. You are a thread polluter :)
When communicating with conspiracy theorists, it is important to understand and recognize their concerns, especially when some of their concerns are justified. It is important to tell them what are the concerns that we share.
Chemtrail believers' concerns about having less blue skies are justified; concerns about the possibility that geoengineering may be implemented without seeking international and public approval are also justified, and we can share these concerns with them.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
When communicating with conspiracy theorists, it is important to understand and recognize their concerns, especially when some of their concerns are justified. It is important to tell them what are the concerns that we share.
Chemtrail believers' concerns about having less blue skies are justified; concerns about the possibility that geoengineering may be implemented without seeking international and public approval are also justified, and we can share these concerns with them.
[...]
Shouldnt you be trying to convince the chemtrailists to stop using the term 'chemtrails' and to stop talking about 'spraying aluminum, barium etc' ?

I dont really feel the 'less blue skies' is justified in most cases. I live near one known chemtrailist who has published and he way over exaggerates his claims and 'concerns'. I think enabling him to 'be afraid' when there is no evidence or scientific or observable data supporting his claims is cruel. And you confusing him doesnt help.

I'm also not concerned about 'international approval' because no wide spread program of any significance is going to be able to be implemented without other countries knowing ( or actual whistleblowers). Countries keep tabs on each other and they have way more resources to do so then a bunch of online bloggers/facebookers and youtube movie makers.


I personally am not 'concerned' about contrails at this point in time because the scientists are studying it. And as you have pointed out, they have been watching the contrail situation since at least 1970. So far the scientists havent found any significant impacts, but they are planning ahead and considering the options if the need arises. IF in the few locations around the globe that they do actually have one or two days a month of 'contrail cover' of any significance, it is up to those specific locations to decide what to do about it. re: crops or unhappy citizens.

And as I've said pollutants from cars, trucks, and buses actually does have tons of scientific evidence of significant harm and pollution, both globally and for many many many specific locations. If you can't motivate people to care ( ie. be concerned) about THAT, good luck getting wide spread caring about a few extra clouds in the sky!

Either way this isnt really the forum to discuss 'what if' scenarios except in Chit Chat to some extent.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I cite those explosive incidences as they were quotes from the Colonel who proposed the switch to JP-8 during the NATO single fuel concept conversion between 1988-1996. The year the conversion was complete, the chemtrail conspiracy began.

These are not coincidences.

ps. I spoke with Mick West on the phone for 45 minutes prior to releasing all of this. He knew nothing of the NATO Pipeline Committee, the Single Fuel Concept, or any of this, so quit acting like none of this is a surprise to you. K?
Why would Mick know of the NATO Pipeline Committee? I know about this but then I live in a country that it affects. In the UK we have the Government Pipeline and Storage System (GPSS). Thay are so shady that they even have a website so you can report issues with http://www.linewatch.co.uk/map-PDF/map-GPSS.pdf This is a system set up since 1939 and ramped up after Operation Overlord. Have you heard of Operation Pluto ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pluto
 

Rico

Senior Member.
When communicating with conspiracy theorists, it is important to understand and recognize their concerns, especially when some of their concerns are justified. It is important to tell them what are the concerns that we share.
Chemtrail believers' concerns about having less blue skies are justified; concerns about the possibility that geoengineering may be implemented without seeking international and public approval are also justified, and we can share these concerns with them.
I'm generally against pollution in general, so in a sense, I agree with you--at least to the point that pollution is undesirable.

But I think the point of the forum is not about activism nor sharing concerns as it is removing bunk.

One thing I'd like to point out too is the nature of contrails. Contrails are largely just contrails, a product of condensation. In fact, the primary composition of a contrail is that of condensed water. It may be "pollution" in the sense that for some, it is unsightly, but it's certainly cannot be described as chemical pollution so much as the exhaust gases themselves, that exists whether or not water is condensing. Certainly, it can be a concern for some, but here we are really deviating on the subject of chemtrails.
 
Last edited:

skephu

Senior Member.
It may be "pollution" in the sense that for some, it is unsightly
Unsightlyness is the least of problems. Much more relevant is the effect on the regional weather, regional climate, and global climate as I mentioned earlier. I believe that these issues should be discussed honestly when communicating with chemtrail believers. Therefore if you want to engage them you need to be knowledgeable about this subject. And that's the reason why it does belong here.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I disagree. Contrails, when they form (regardless of one's sense of 'aesthetics' about their appearance) constitute a minimal portion of total surface area (if you view them from directly above, for example). They are merely lines, with a huge amount of 'empty space' between them.

In the instances when persistent contrail seem to expand and completely cover in a high, thin overcast? It is most likely that even absent the existence of airplanes at all, those high thin cirrus clouds would still form.

Time-lapse photography shows this...example:

Sorry to have posted a full 5-minute vid...but it illustrates rather clearly the motion of clouds in the upper atmosphere. Our perception (as Humans) when restricted to our own sense of 'time' and its passage tend to form a "confirmation bias" when it comes to contrails, and their relation to other cloud formations.

Those clouds in the first half are, BTW (to my eye) alto-stratus and alto-cumulus mostly. I see a few (much higher-level) non-persistent and persistent contrails....all of which continue to move along as the upper-level winds carry them across Earth's surface. Later on I see some cirro-stratus, and again a few contrail fragments that are persisting.

My point here (to reiterate) is the perception of the "contrail as pollution" is inaccurate.

BTW, there are plenty more examples of such time-lapse cloud videos to be found.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This thread is over a year old, and has devolved into a largely semantic argument over if contrails are "pollution"

We know what contrails are. If you consider them "pollution", then that's just your definition of pollution.

If you think there's really an issue here, then continue in PM, or start a more focussed thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
TWCobra Debunked: Max Bliss and the Berlin Declaration Contrails and Chemtrails 0
TWCobra Max Bliss "3 chemtrails" Video. 20th June 2014 Contrails and Chemtrails 3
TWCobra Max Bliss performs seamless 180 U-Turn on global warming. Contrails and Chemtrails 13
TWCobra Debunked-Max Bliss implying that aluminium can be added to modern turbo-fan engine fuel. Contrails and Chemtrails 6
TWCobra Max Bliss inadvertently debunks most chemtrail theories Contrails and Chemtrails 10
TWCobra Max Bliss debunked-Aircraft engine oil systems used to dispense Chemtrail chemicals Contrails and Chemtrails 0
Mick West Statement from Michael Mulder of Aerotoxic.org regard claims by Max Bliss Contrails and Chemtrails 1
HappyMonday Max Bliss - Anonymous Chemtrails 'Airline insider' speaks out Contrails and Chemtrails 54
TheMindBoggles Max Bliss & David Lim - Genuine concern or fear mongering? Contrails and Chemtrails 1
TWCobra Max Bliss debunked (again) Contrails and Chemtrails 0
TWCobra Wigington/Max Bliss Debunked. Automated Chemtrail dispersal Commercial aircraft Contrails and Chemtrails 7
I Nathan Oakley's Flat Earth "Debates". Flat Earth 69
Hama Neggs Mike Glynn debates Peter Kusznir with Madisonstar Moon Contrails and Chemtrails 22
Jay Reynolds Debunking in Live Debates Practical Debunking 4
Mick West TFTRH #13: Professor David Keith – Geoengineering Research and the Chemtrails Conspiracy Theory Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 2
Mick West TFTRH #11: Jim Lee – Chemtrails, Geoengineering, Conspiracies, and Semantics Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 1
Trailblazer Explained: video of concentric circular "chemtrails" (E-3 Sentry AWACS plane, Feb 1 2019) Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 3
Ben Geddy Happy to have found this site and Mick thru JRE! Practical Debunking 4
Mick West YouTube adds Encyclopedia Britannica article on Contrails to "Chemtrail" Videos Contrails and Chemtrails 18
FlightMuj Claims of Predictions of Chemtrails in Old Texts Contrails and Chemtrails 3
M Bornong Can Belief in Chemtrails and/or other Conspiracy Theories Lead to Violence? Contrails and Chemtrails 4
skephu Solar geoengineering and the chemtrails conspiracy on social media Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Mick West Chemtrails and the Anti-Vaccine Movement Contrails and Chemtrails 34
MikeG Debunked: Air Force Verifies Chemtrails are Real Contrails and Chemtrails 6
Mick West Banff Chemtrails Billboard Worries David Keith Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Mick West Quantifying Expert Consensus Against Covert Geoengineering / Chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 116
skephu Debunked: Dutch Government Admit Chemtrails Exist Contrails and Chemtrails 7
mrfintoil Debunked: CIA Director admits chemtrails, geoengineering, stratospheric aerosol injection Contrails and Chemtrails 24
C Strange Flickering in Contrail Video Posted in Earlier Thread [Focussing artifacts] Contrails and Chemtrails 7
Trailblazer Russ Tanner accidentally debunks chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Mick West Demythologizing Prince's reference to "Chemtrails" Contrails and Chemtrails 5
ParanoidSkeptic Chemtrails: Experiments on the Public Contrails and Chemtrails 5
MikeC New Zealand Ministry of Environment reply to "chemtrail" query Contrails and Chemtrails 6
F Explained: Video of plane leaving "6 chemtrails, then 2" [Mixed Exhaust and Aerodynamic Contrails] Contrails and Chemtrails 6
Mick West Debunked: Article: "Court Takes Child From Mother After She Mentions Chemtrails At School" Contrails and Chemtrails 92
skephu Chuck Norris on chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 7
Mick West Vice: 'It Was Like a Cult': Leaving the World of Online Conspiracy Theories Escaping The Rabbit Hole 4
skephu Paul Beckwith (climate scientist) on chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 19
JFDee Debunked: Lichens and Moss on Trees Caused by Chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Sausalito Spectral analysis of alleged "chemtrails" Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Jay Reynolds Safya Yassin, Missouri ISIS supporter and chemtrails believer arrested for threats Contrails and Chemtrails 1
Trailblazer Chemtrail response from Swiss Federal Office of the Environment Contrails and Chemtrails 3
MikeG Climate Change War Games Contrails and Chemtrails 0
Mick West Persistent Trails Survey Shows Chemtrail Believers Only Recently Noticed Persistent Trails Contrails and Chemtrails 32
Dan Page idea: a "Debunked" Stamp Practical Debunking 9
Z 3 military helicopters Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 14
Mick West Debunked: AnonSec's NASA Hack, Global Hawk Hijack, Evidence of Chemtrails [Public Domain Data] General Discussion 32
MikeG Giant Snowflakes [Rimed Dendrites] Contrails and Chemtrails 24
Balance Blatant photoshop deceit of BP refueling tank Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Dan Page Claim: Mobile app uses atmospheric data to prove chemtrails vs contrails Contrails and Chemtrails 12
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top