Mars Face on original NASA Photo? (2014)

Yawn. That we "don't know" is true of everything (ie.: Cartesian demon). It's a trivial, always true conclusion which does not help at all. Just a question for you: if we can say something is a rock with a probability of 99.9999...99%, does the remaining 0.0000...01%, which includes everything from "it's a rock sculpted by who-knows to resemble a face" to "it's a leprechaun posing as a rock looking as a face (they're magical, you know!)" justify saying "we don't know"?

Well, then I'm not wrong so far. Ahm, i do not think that i would weight the possibillities in percentage.

Maybe you mean like this:

With a probability of x%, another species has been to Mars not far from our galaxy and left a statue behind. we just did not know that.
With a probability of x%, there are intelligent life forms beneath the surface of Mars that are capable of creating such a structure. we did not have found them before
With a probability of x%, an asteroid hit the mars on which the statue was located or inside of.
With a probability of x% an ansteroid has broken open the mars surface and this statue of an earlier civilization appeared.
With a probability of x%, this is a clever fake by NASA

I am not a astro knowledge masterpiece, just a pretty normal guy.
Everyone should believe that is in fact pareidolia and a Rock on Mars. Fine.
 
Well, then I'm not wrong so far. Ahm, i do not think that i would weight the possibillities in percentage.

Maybe you mean like this:

With a probability of x%, another species has been to Mars not far from our galaxy and left a statue behind. we just did not know that.
With a probability of x%, there are intelligent life forms beneath the surface of Mars that are capable of creating such a structure. we did not have found them before
With a probability of x%, an asteroid hit the mars on which the statue was located or inside of.
With a probability of x% an ansteroid has broken open the mars surface and this statue of an earlier civilization appeared.
With a probability of x%, this is a clever fake by NASA
You forgot the leprechaun.


I am not a astro knowledge masterpiece, just a pretty normal guy.
Everyone should believe that is in fact pareidolia and a Rock on Mars. Fine.

Cool then (see also post #75)
 
That "if everybody agrees" doesn't make sense because you now "believe" not "know".
The difference, though, is that there is a mountain of evidence indicating that:
Rocks can look to the observer very, very much like faces.
There are a very large number of rocks visible in photos taken on Mars.
Therefore: Some number of rocks in photos from Mars will be expected to look, to the observer, very much like faces.

On the other hand:
A sculpture requires a sculptor.
There is zero evidence of beings capable of advanced activities like creating sculpture ever lived on Mars.
There is zero evidence of beings capable of advanced activities like creating sculpture have ever lived anywhere else in the solar system, apart from Earth.
There is zero evidence of beings capable of advanced activities like creating sculpture live somewhere outside the solar system (maybe they do, but we have no evidence of it), much less that they ever visited Mars to sculpt a face.
While sculpture DOES happen on Earth, there is zero evidence that any sculpted rocks carved into faces have ever been transported from Earth to Mars.
Therefore: Any conjecture that a rock on Mars which looks like a face is, in fact, a sculpture is totally lacking in any evidence that this is even possible. NOT that it is impossible, not that we KNOW it cannot be the case, just that there is no evidence to support it being possible.

Given, then, these two hypotheses: one is supported by evidence that it is possible, even likely. The other is conjecture supported by no evidence. Preferring the former is not illogical.

Of course, if new evidence emerges, it would be necessary and proper to take it into account. Unless/until such evidence emerges, going with the evidence that we have is in accordance with skepticism and logic.
 
Now can you imagine why one of the largest gold nuggets ever found is called 'The Golden Eagle' ?....

View attachment 75176

Because it looks like a baby reaching for a crib toy?
baby-reaching-mobile-banner.jpg
 
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Enough such stones exist to open a museum in Japan, and numerous "stone faces" exist on craggy mountains around the world. Example:
View attachment 75181
Atlas Mountain, Morocco
Image source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-gravity-of-weight/202306/on-the-face-of-it-pareidolia

And
united-states-old-man-mountain-formation-stamps.jpg


Though the face fell off 20+ years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man_of_the_Mountain
"The Old Man of the Mountain is called "Stone Face" by the Abenaki and is a symbol within their culture. It is also a symbol to the Mohawk people. The first written mention of the Old Man was in 1805. It became a landmark and a cultural icon for the state of New Hampshire. It collapsed on May 3, 2003. After its collapse, residents considered replacing it with a replica, but the idea was ultimately rejected. It remains a visual icon on the state's license plates and in other places."
 
I will explain you all went wrong.

You're right in the sense that we cannot be certain of the origins of the apparent face.
But there are many precedents in nature of what appear to us to be face-like patterns/ structures, some have been seen on Mars (e.g. the Cydonia face and pyramids).
So many precedents that we have a word for those subjective perceptions- pareidolia.

There are absolutely zero precedents (and zero evidence) for
(1) Any form of manufactured extraterrestrial artefact
(2) Any form of intelligent life ever visiting Mars, excepting known human-built machines since 1976.
(3) Any form of alien life at all.

Do we know humans see faces where there has been no intent, or organisational ability, to depict a face? Yes, definitely.
Do we know that there are manufactured artefacts beyond Earth that we haven't put there since 1957? No.
Is there evidence that non-human intelligences exist, or have ever existed, anywhere? Not at present.
Is there evidence of a spacefaring human society before ours? No, and overwhelming evidence that the idea is absurd (although popular in science fiction).

Nonetheless we cannot definitively falsify the hypothesis that this "face" has been intentionally made at present.
But when formulating our descriptions and understanding of the universe, it is often sensible to provisionally accept what seems most likely based on the evidence we have, and by looking for analogous precedents.

I'm not sure the analogy with Schrödinger's cat is that helpful; (without wanting to take us off-topic) some physicists who think it's a useful description of macro-scale effects dependent on quantum events would state that the cat's status is intrinsically unknowable, and thus exists in a superposition of states, unless you make an observation.
IIRC Schrödinger devised this thought experiment in an attempt to demonstrate the intuitive implausibility of such an interpretation.

The rocks that make up the face exist. The face is either a case of pareidolia (likely) or has been deliberately designed (very unlikely, as far as we currently know).
It is not in a superposition of states just because we don't know for certain at present.
Not being able to conclusively demonstrate that it results from pareidolia does not make an intelligent origin more likely.

The status of the half-face on Mars is not intrinsically unknowable. It is possible some future orbiter or rover will image it from other angles and/ or lighting conditions and demonstrate that the apparent face is a product of pareidolia.
If not, perhaps in the future it will be visited by astronauts or robots who could look for evidence of carving or machining, and who could test if it was minerally distinct from its surroundings.

However, sending a multi-hundred-million dollar probe specifically to investigate what is probably an example of pareidolia might be questioned at the present time.

(Edited to add: If I was Earth Finance Minister I'd take the money from Mr Putin's "defence" budget and start building the probe tomorrow, but unaccountably I haven't been elected to that position yet.)
 
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Nonetheless we cannot definitively falsify the hypothesis that this "face" has been intentionally made at present.
and neither can we falsify that it's a natural formation.
so we should go with the simplest full explanation.
Why do we see a face on Mars?
the "cultural artifact" explanation requires many unproven assumptions.
the "pareidolia" explanation does not.

The best one can say about the theory of relativity is that it's never been falsified, so it too lives in that indeterminate "superposition" state. However, it explains more than the theories it's replaced.
 
You do not understand "that can't be true..." and miss-interpret that term.
You interpret it as an statemant of "yes or no".

Your whole 'we don't know' argument is somewhat of an intellectual red herring.

In the first place, there are thousands of years of philosophical argument about whether we actually 'know' anything at all. Even Descartes ' I think, therefore I exist' is not a 100% certainty.

That is why science actually employs a completely different tactic to 'knowing' or 'believing'. What science actually does is seek to disprove a hypothesis. Science is what is left after failed hypotheses have been ruled out.

For example. Does Australia exist ? I have never been there....so I cannot state with 100% certainty that I 'know' such a place exists. But what would the alternative hypothesis be ? One would have to suppose that all my friends who live in Australia are lying. All the airlines that fly there every day are lying or mistaken. All the millions of photos that exist of Australia would have to be fakes. Every episode of Aussie Gold Hunters would have had to employ fake 'Australians'. Google Earth would have to be in on the conspiracy to add it to the globe. And why would anyone even go to all this effort to prove a non-existent land exists ?

So the hypothesis that Australia is fake simply becomes absurd and incredibly unlikely. Which leaves one with the most likely explanation....that there really is a place called Australia.

And that is how science works. It doesn't get bogged down in absurd semantics over 'know'. It says 'this is the most likely explanation for this phenomenon'....which in turn is open to revision if more evidence turns up.
 
However, Mars Rover can't even search 2 meters deep to take samples. The question is also how long the period was that Mars could have harbored life and how far it could have developed.
Further investigations must take place deeper in Mars. Finding underground structures that indicate intelligence may change the context. The Rosalind Franklin rover will be able to drill 2 meters deep (2025).
There are more effective ways to detect cavities than drilling. Mars Insight did far more to search for subsurface cavities or liquid than ExoMars/Franklin will, 2 meters is pretty shallow for the sort of silliness you expect it to find. Unfortunately mobile rovers make poor platforms for seismology and there's a strong focus on mobile exploration systems on Mars to make efficient use of the limited launch opportunities.

Side note: the mission sadly won't launch in 2025. Russia was providing the launch vehicle and landing platform and after years of delays was finally kicked off the project (likely for the best as Roscosmos has not had a single successful deep space mission since 1989). Replacing the rocket is easy with Falcon 9 pricing Soyuz out of the market but the landing platform is much harder. The optimistic date is 2028 but even that might require a miracle.

the "cultural artifact" explanation requires many unproven assumptions.
In particular it requires assuming this is the unique special case and all the numerous examples of demonstrable illusions, even in the same images, are different.

I'm sure some people in this thread aren't doing so with kind intent but it's relevant to circle all the other vague faces in the image - why is this one different than those? Why is only this one relevant to the question?
 
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I'm sure some people in this thread aren't doing so with kind intent but it's relevant to circle all the other vague faces in the image - why is this one different than those? Why is only this one relevant to the question?
I'd urge caution in assuming unkind intent from posters here who are, as you point out, making a valid point. While it may feel like piling on to see the point made multiple times, a part of the point is that instances of pareidolia are extremely common and crop up all over the place, a point which requires multiple examples..
 
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